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Wednesday, July 20, 2016

U17G - U16 Girls Youth Soccer

This page is focused on Under 17 girls youth soccer, primarily in Region 1 but everyone is invited to share and post.

Teams face increased competition for the top players, (who are increasingly attending college showcases).

More teams consolidate and the best teams--academy soccer, club soccer and high school teams--battle to attract and retain the right player mix.

Stay tuned. This is bound to be good.

1,359 comments:

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Anonymous said...

PF: http://www.pennfusion.org/alumni/92BOYS/index_E.html

FC Cont: 2016 http://www.continentalfc.org/College/911141.html and 2017 http://www.continentalfc.org/College/911142.html

EM: http://eastmeadowsoccer.com/CollegeCommittment/CollgeCommittment/index_E.html

Albertson: http://albertsonsoccer.com/Page.asp?n=100074&org=albertsonsoccer.com

MF: http://www.matchfitacademy.net/alumni/Girl_alum/index_E.html

PDA doesn't have an updated one but here is their 2014 class:

PDA Girls Class of 2014 Colleges and Universities:

Courtney Broson - Syracuse University
Caroline Chagares - Harvard University
Colby Ciarrocca - Vanderbilt University
Anna Conklin - University of South Carolina
Rachel Corboz - Georgetown University
Schuyler Debree - Duke University
Lauren Dimes - St. Joseph's Univeristy
Monica Flores - Universtiy of Notre Dame
Sabrina Flores - University of Notre Dame
Maried Forrest - Holy Cross College
Meghan Holtz - Bucknell University
Lauren Jankowski - University of South Carolina
Madison Kenny - Boston College
Bree Livingston - Virginia Commonwealth University
Julianne Minutillo - Villanova University
Meaghan Mulligan - University of Tennessee
Casey Murphy - Rutgers University
Courtney Norton - Rutgers University
Jessica Vigna - Syracuse University
Katelyn Walters - Rutgers University
Alex Weyrauch - Holy Cross College
Lexi Chang- Lehigh University
Melissa Chura- Trinity College
Brittany Cooper- George Washington University
Ingrid DiClemente- George Washington University
Jessica Goldman- The College of NJ
Jillian Kennedy- UPenn
Kylie Kirk- Indiana University
Katherine Lynch- Kean University
Daniella Maggio- Quinnipiac University
Kelly McWhorter- College of Charleston
Jessica Moskal-Villanova University
Victoria Pugliano-Wagner College
Rebecca Ravitz-Davidson College
Samantha Santos-Liberty college
Yota Sfondouris-The College of NJ
Paige Jacob - Marist University
Karli Sottung- Naval Academy
Drew Topor- Georgetown University
Miranda Konstantinides - Monmouth University
Rachelle Ross - Monmouth University
Courtney Norton - Rutgers University
Gina Tricocci - University of Delaware
Sarah Jackson - East Carolina
Alex Tamashunas - Belmont
Jacki Carty - Boston University
Melissa Fichtner - Francis Marion
Britanny Murray - Iona College
Evelyn Feigeles - Arcadia
Cayla Barry - Swarthmore
Maxine Turchin - Kean University


Anonymous said...

Very impressive since these are more than just the ECNL team

Anonymous said...

NJ Stallions 2016: 1 went to UVA. Not seeing any other Top 15 college teams on the list: http://www.njstallions.com/news/2015-news/nj-stallions-girls-committing-to-top-division-i---division-iii-programs

QS: 1 2017 to Fla State. The rest are 2016 and not going to Top 15. http://www.quickstrikefc.com/college-center/commitments/

HBC: Cannot find a list

TSF: No list and website is outdated but 2014 class announcement shows no elite school commitments http://www.tsfacademy.com/news/2014-feb14a.htm

SJEB: Have to go back to the '94s to find a player going to a Top 15 school http://www.sjeb.org/page/show/1227991-sjeb-alumni

FC Copa: 1 - Syracuse - from 2012 - not Top 15 but still very decent - nothing since 2012 http://leagueathletics.com/Page.asp?n=55813&org=fccopa.com

If you actually LOOK at the commits you will see a clear difference between ECNL and non-ECNL clubs.

Anonymous said...

9;14 Yes, impressive beyond the ECNL team for PDA. But compared to the non-ECNL clubs its SPECTACULAR.

The non-ECNL clubs are NOT sending players REGULARLY to elite soccer schools. They get one or two here an there but not on a consistent basis.

But at least now we know why the non-ECNL parents did not provide links. Their opinions and conjectures are false.



Anonymous said...

i fail to see al these elite soccer PDA commits. 1bc , 1 duke? what am i missing. the schools i see are selecting kids from all over.

Anonymous said...

instead of volume, All i want to see are the number of top 15 commits and I'm not interested in kids outside 2000 birth year. I bet its very similar

Anonymous said...

PDA is volume more than quality. This is about quality. ECNL are out there inviting in Clubs that are ALREADY successful and you think this is development? Its simply acquisition. The main reason they are fighting DA is because at least the DA is suggesting some sort of standards. Standards that the old boys cannot make up as they go along.

show us the top 15 commits of the local Clubs thats all i want to see. PDA teams that have 26 on a roster are clearly going to have more volume...but the quality on a pct age basis is going to be much closer than you think.

Anonymous said...

No one is regularly sending kids to elite soccer schools.

Anonymous said...

647 I love the way you tell me I have no idea about my own child. I do. ECNL made no difference at all. As far a NT goes, you are suggesting a kid who is invited to camp once has a golden ticket? what utter nonsense. Great players are well known, camp or no camp. When you say without camp, you make is sound like NT camp makes them good. Nonsense. They are at a significant advantage because they are better then the rest. Hard to accept, but true. And the top schools and coaches can see that for themselves. Stop talking Power 5. its ACC then the rest. Power 5 is a football term. No real relevance in identifying the best soccer schools. Its the mid level parent who is paying he sums who needs to justify it. My kid plays in the ECNL and there is massive variation in the Clubs and the teams within them. When a destination club like PDA has holes, they recruit. They don't coach up what they have so to compare commits is ludicrous. this whole - you need the ECNL to find you- plays well to amid level kid looking to find a home, but a Club can provide all of this outside the ECNL and the better they do it the more likely they will be absorbed into the ECNL. I do not feel the ECNL has played a big role in my kids development. She has, coaches have, but not the ECNL.

Anonymous said...

11:14 local clubs don't have lists.

Anonymous said...

11:28 Why is your kid still on an ECNL team?

Anonymous said...

11:10 then do some searching yourself and tell us what you find. Stop relying on someone else's posts.

Anonymous said...

How hard is it for you folks to cut and paste the links? Talk about lazy!!!

Anonymous said...

1158 Great coach.

Anonymous said...

914

How is that list spectacular? its a good solid list, similar to the commits NJ Stallions 2016 has.

Anonymous said...

1128 The discussion has nothing to do with the relative abilities of your child. It has everything to do with the perception of the schools toward players and the efficiencies that they gain in recruiting from certain venues. The schools' coaching staff are those who identify the players and subsequently choose to recruit them. Although there are clearly some players who are identified through non ECNL events, the vast majority of top 25 programs recruit primarily through the ECNL.

Many people seem to struggle with the concept that the ECNL provides a platform through which college coaches can easily, and relatively cheaply, evaluate players for possible inclusion in their programs. Hence they chose to spend their budget in time and money to attend these national showcase events. I am not saying that they never go to a USYSA event, only that they are more frequently using ECNL events to identify players. many coaches have been quoted stating the same.

Importantly, this concept does not include the position that ALL the best players play in the ECNL or that the ALL ECNL teams are superior to non ECNL teams. Only that the college coaches have expressed an opinion that they get more bang for their buck, by attending ECNL events and therefore it is these events on which they concentrate. Often also, however, you will see a few local kids pop up on recruiting announcements at the top programs who are cheap to see. Some coaches may still go to the USYSA national championships to spot an under the radar kid or 2 once in a while. However, these kids such as the the Sunrise, Legends and Carlsbad players are instructed to join ECNL teams as discovery players, by their future colleges to foster maximal development, and to allow the colleges to more easily track them. Again, by your writing and your difficulty with these concepts, it seems necessary to repeat myself more simply: You cannot know how successful your child would have been in the recruiting game without the ECNL- that is a fact. You can opine that the league in which she was showcased made no difference, but you cannot know.

Anonymous said...

1128 You are completely wrong. There is a golden ticket in the early YNT identification. Indeed they are all excellent players to be identified as such, but these are frequently among the very players that the college coaches lament don't work out for them. Look at the kids who are identified by ynt coaches relatively late in their youth careers. Those turning up now on U16 and 17 YNT rosters this summer, they are generally committing to lesser soccer programs than those who were included in u14-early 17 rosters, but have fallen off the USSF radar. Why is that? Because the top 10 are committing kids in their freshmen year and have been courting them since they showed up on their radar as national team kids in 8th grade or even before. Hence the early recruiting debate as a lot of changes may occur with players over the subsequent 3 years to make or break their ultimate success in college.

Regarding the ACC: "Power 5" is not only a football reference, many soccer (and other "Olympic" sport) articles frequently apply this term. Although, of interest, the power rankings put the AAC ahead of the big 12 for women's soccer last year. But several of the AAC members are applying to the big 12 expansion which is currently happening.

Indeed the ACC is the top league and I don't think that anyone would argue that a significant scholarship (most are not 100% at these schools) to Duke, UNC, UVA, FSU is a huge soccer accomplishment and for all, save FSU, a huge academic one also. Please correct me if I am wrong, but your position apparently can be described as follows: A kid who chooses, say Syracuse (pr > 100) over Penn State (PR< 10) has made a superior soccer choice because she chose a school in the ACC over one in the Big10? Of course that isn't true.

Similarly Mallory Pugh choose UCLA despite its very poor performance last year and competing in the "lowly" PAC-12; I guess she wasn't good enough for Syracuse. Otherwise the league in which the school plays is becoming increasingly irrelevant as the SEC and Big 10 and 12 dump significantly more football money into women's soccer. In fact, if the ACC didn't also field men's teams, I suspect the ACC and Big10 would be eclipsing the ACC due to superior facilities and equipment.

The ACC has indeed won 25 of the women's college cups, but UNC won 21 of those during their "wonder years". There is far more parity now among the leagues than there ever has been. Last year was a bit of an anomaly with the ACC dominating the tournaments entries, but again 2 of the four finalists were big 10 schools. Clemson used to be a lowly program, but their coach has seen consistent improvement and now they are ranked above UNC at the start of this season. Times are changing and to deem superior, a kid's success, because she is going to a bottom feeder ACC over a top Big 10, PAC-12, SEC, AAC, or Big 12 school is absurd.

The number 1 recruits at least the last 2 years have chosen other than the ACC. 2014 Katie Cousins, chose Tennessee and she's about to redshirt to play with the u20s. Pugh to UCLA and the PAC-12. Its about the individual schools within the top 8 leagues at this time that really speak to a player's relative success in the recruiting game.

Congrats to your clearly gifted child as a scholarship to any ACC school is an accomplishment with which to be very proud. However, I think that to discount other player's choices as inferior because they chose schools in other leagues is frankly incorrect and clearly narrow minded. BTW my child (rising soph) is not yet committed, but has received offers from several ACC schools. Please don't go jumping into- my kid is going to a big 10 in corn country so I am just defending her choice. She hasn't yet made a choice, but any of the power 5 leagues would provide a terrific platform for her to study and develop.

Anonymous said...

Happy Valley baby! Who won it all last year? An ACC team???

Anonymous said...

I will take Princeton or Bucknell over your power 5 any day of the week

Anonymous said...

1118 I dont get your point at all. Mine is that the ECNL is providing NOTHING other than gathering good OVERALL clubs and presenting the product- the kids in one location at great cost to the parents. The ECNL is not developing players any better than anyone else. Its coach and team specific. The ECNL has created a country club and then raised the cost of entry to this marketplace. It is a business proposition. Of course coaches go, because there are multiple players in one location and most of the better clubs are in the ECNL. The ECNL itself is providing little of value in terms of developing players.

now what exactly are you suggesting?

Anonymous said...

1119 Wrong. No one is discounting their choices. I am saying that it is impossible for anyone to judge SOCCER ability by looking at the schools committed to unless the kid is getting big $$ from one of the top top soccer schools. I have no clue how much kids are getting and I dont care. But the folks that come on here typing names of great academic schools as evidence of soccer excellence are dead wrong. All these schools are fine places to study AND play sports if thats what a kid wants, but I hate the way people try and parlay one in to the other. They are not equivalent.

Stop putting words in my mouth- Pac 12 is a top conference and UCLA is a top soccer school, no question about it-def in the top 10. My rankings are based on long term track record, not who won last year. I dont really care who the no1 recruit is because it is purely subjective. An invention of TDS.

At no point have I said ALL ACC schools are better than ALL other schools - far from it. the ACC top to bottom is the deepest conference but clearly there are better teams in College soccer.

Anonymous said...

ECNL formed as a league to gather excellent players and play against other excellent players/teams and avoid the lower level riff-raff you see at Dix. It helped gather these excellent players at a few tournaments each year around the nation to play each other. College coaches flocked to those tournaments. It served its initial purpose and was a huge success.

You can think Disney is the place to be for non-ECNL teams but remember Sanford comes first. Those attending ECNL players get first crack at the college coaches (and their money). Ever wonder why ECNL teams from all over the country go to Sanford?

Anonymous said...

148 ..you are wrong. ECNL collects solid CLubs, not excellent teams or even players. there are plenty of terrible players and teams in the ECNL. the purpose it served was to provide more revenue for the Club owners and less travel for College coaches. What purpose does it serve you, the consumer? you pay more. you travel more and thew quality of what you get in terms of coaching/ training is hugely variable. It is a myth that ECNL gets first crack...good players get first crack no matter where they play. a poor player is a poor player whether it says ECNL on the label or not.

Anonymous said...

1139 ..so because Rocky Rodriguez has a great tournament, we should send our kids there? I will go on longer term track record in picking my top 10 schools for soccer.

Anonymous said...

1:48 some ECNL clubs/teams are not as good by "our" standards but some of these clubs aren't located in an urban area and you can find an English trainer every 300 feet. Truth is those players are the best players for that area. Does your kid ever leave the Eastern seaboard to play in tournaments significantly inland? Have you ever driven 3 hours one way to a state's geographical center for ODP because that is the closest place for all of the state's top players to meet? No. Because it's easy to judge the rest of the US from your urban NJ perch and judge.
Shame on you for geographical discrimination. You clearly need to get out of the trip-state more often.

Anonymous said...

New DA

http://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/final-22-clubs-announced-for-girls-development-academy-inaugural-season/

Anonymous said...

Nice to see Tab Ramos gave his Cedar Stars the GDA. No conflict of interest there!! What a joke, but I mentioned it months ago. Also gave it to Paul Riley, FC Fury, a club that doesnt actually exist. Any thoughts of improving the US Womens program in the future have been dealt a setback.

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Anonymous said...

FC Fury became Albertson. Back in the day (USYS days), it was FC Fury. At least that is how I recall it, but all the moving pieces are somewhat confusing anymore.

Anonymous said...

My goodness. The ECNL vs. Non-ECNL debate continues. it is a winless debate. Each party believes in the league they are in; otherwise, they would not be in it. It's that simple. There is no one size fits all League. Some of it is cost, some is geographic location, some of it is the child is perfectly fine where she is playing (where ever that may be). Each League has benefits and each has detriments.

My kid was in USYS, a very good team (high ranking if you buy into GSP which I don't, but). She decided that she needed to move to ECNL. She liked the style of play of a local Club team (which was more her style than her USYS team). She liked her old team and coaches but wanted the challenge of the ECNL. So, she did; despite our pleas to rethink (who leaves a winning team)?

So, she was with her new Club for a week and attended one of the prestigious ECNL events. Coaches watching her new team (who did not have a great season) averaged 100 +/- per game. Top schools, too. Within a week, college coaches were making inquiries to her new club & coach. Within a month, she could have committed....within a month.

Now, do I think ECNL is responsible for this? Sure, but not fully. It was a combo of the league (as their events have hundreds of coaches in attendance) and her new Club. The coaches came to watch her team because her Club & the coaches are highly respected in the soccer world.

That is a huge part of it no matter which league in which you compete. The reputation of the club and its coaches and their development of players are integral as well.

Anonymous said...

*** integral pieces of the puzzle as well.

Anonymous said...

Lol you just made the point. Better exposure in the ECNL. College coaches have been quoted as such. YNT coaches say the same. People whose kids are not in just don't want to see it

Anonymous said...

Game on ECNL versus DA

Next we will hear that ECNL is going to circle wagons. They had to keep in the super clubs' B teams (hence the reaffirmation of PDA, Michigan hawks et al) to stay relevant. But, if they are smart business people, soon they will be bumping out "expendable" DA/ECNL clubs. I would expect Penn Fusion to be among the first as the ECNL rallies behind CFC. Bump Albertson and EMSC for Surf and NYFC and so on. Which NJ clubs will replace Matchfit? eastern MD is wide open. Can Baltimore bays pull their act together? Put back school year cut offs ECNL and you will have a real product to sell and compete well with the DA. Interesting times.

Anonymous said...

9:47 did your kid's USYS team ever play Disney? If not do you think the same would have happened? or are you saying she had nothing to do with this it was the league and the coaches?

Anonymous said...

none of my business, but why has she not committed? Is the school not what she wants?

Anonymous said...

9:05 - Consider that it is about 70 miles from Whitemarsh, MD to Manheim, PA (PAC) and West Chester, PA (PF). Some families already do this commute distance or more for ECNL. I can see PAC sucking in a few from the north side of Baltimore for DA. Northeastern MD girls have already been going to Continental, PF, and even Delaware teams in search of playing opportunities.

Anonymous said...

Kid's team did play Disney. I wasn't impressed. Great facilities, but thought it was overpriced for the what it was (had to stay in Disney facilities, etc.). Way more coaches at Sanford.
And yes, she has committed. She took her time. Great choice. Had a bunch of opportunities.

Anonymous said...

9:05 - do you really see ECNL bumping out PF? Ha, no chance. PF constantly has competitive teams in the nat'l cups. Even with the DA, they will have the depth.

I don't see ECNL getting rid of anyone. They want to stay competitive. I see them taking in clubs that don't have all age groups, possibly.

Recall they are allowing boys soon, too. That will make up for some of their DA talent losses.

Anonymous said...

9:39 - i'm 10:37 - wanted to add.

She did not send out one email to initially solicit a coach's attention. All of the coaches that reached out (including her committed school) were there to watch other kids on her team and/or her competing team which we always very good, too.

Anonymous said...

Everyone keeps forgetting that Disney was the premier tourney back in the day. ECNL has only been in existence for a few years. Is Disney still a very good tourney, absolutely? But, it isn't the only game in town anymore (literally).

Anonymous said...

1103 . great. glad you are happy.

Anonymous said...

11:15 - I guess that is ECNL's doing as well (the opportunities). I still think it's the combo club and ECNL.

Anonymous said...

How is Disney over priced compared to flying to San Diego? Honestly pal, you don't give your kid enough credit. If you think the only reason that happened was because of a league.

Maybe she's a good player and that would have happened anyway?

Anonymous said...

12:09 - went to SD and spent less than when we stayed at Disney. Many of the attractions in SD don't cost body limbs; they are just the price of gas. The beach was free.

Maybe you aren't reading my posts properly. I don't credit all of it to ECNL. I give a lot of it to her Club. If her Club left ECNL, those kids would still get great offers and would draw coaches. And you are right, she probably would have drawn some coaches had she not moved. She didn't move to draw interest. She thinks the level of play was/is better, overall, in most of her ECNL games. That is why she moved. And, can't argue with the outcome. Obviously, the college coaches thought so too.

But, there is no mistaking the amount of coaches that show up to the ECNL events as compared to the non-ECNL event, like Disney. I'm not trying to sway anyone. I am merely giving our experience.

Anonymous said...

Oh and US Soccer was never at her games in USYS. They are always on the sidelines in ECNL (league games and events). If they are showing up, certainly the level of play is warranting it. That is why she moved.

Anonymous said...

Ok Regarding Disney. You stayed at a Disney Hotel, it is not in any way required by the tournament. We stayed at an Embassy Suites for 149.00 per night. Free breakfast, free cocktail hour each day. Team has lunch and dinner catered in each day. The team does not visit parks during the tournament. Girls come to play, Disney Parks are not a novelty for most. The trip cost no more than any tournament with one exception, the travel cost. Our team had 236 coaches show up during the 3-4 days for our games, the quality of the team dictates the number of coaches, not just the tournament.Cost as compared to Sanford is a wash. I agree that ECNL may have more coaches come but 236 is adequate in my book. Maybe your kid was just on the wrong team prior to ECNL.

Anonymous said...

I'm not debating you. I don't have to. I don't pay your bills and I'm not trying to get my kid on any radars.

But as you noted, you can't compare SD to Disney. Compare Disney to Sanford, we had over 100 at one game. It only got better from there. And, these were mostly, DI, some DII; no DIII. Again, I am not trying to debate that either. Very good schools and programs in all the divisions. I'm not a soccer school snob that way. I'm not playing in college and getting an education for a future profession, my kid is. Whatever works for her, is fine with me.

You like Disney; it seems. I didn't. There is a chance my kid played your kid at some point there. She also didn't go as a U16. She was in ECNL already. So, when you go younger, it really isn't worth anything other than to get on coaches radars. And, we stayed on the Disney grounds (our administrative person told us we had to). It was a dump and was expensive. So, my hotel room in SD which was wonderful was the same price you paid in FL. And, when you book well in advance, the travel was pretty much the same cost, too.

You mention Disney. Surely the competition in the non-ECNL brackets at PDA are better. How many coaches did you get there, an ECNL event? Did you get more or less?


Anonymous said...

D3 have excellent schools and several that play better soccer than D1s, just saying :) no D3 is a BAD thing.

Anonymous said...

9:47

"....she could have committed, within a month"

Committed to what? What Division? What Conference? How much of a scholarship?

I could have my 14 year old daughter commit tomorrow as well

Doesnt mean a hill of beans.

Anonymous said...

we all want different hings from this I guess, but i never understand the # of coaches thing. As long as the ones my kids wants to go to come when she asks, I am happy.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, no DIII included in my tally for Sanford. DIII's are great schools and great programs too.

And my daughter is in a top 40 soccer DI program that meets both her soccer and academic needs.

Anonymous said...

1:35 I mentioned Disney since you mentioned it specifically. CASL seems to offer the best opportunities for the non- ECNL clubs as we registered close to 100 for one game and about 260 in total. Jeff Cup was similar. Regarding PDA it was a little less but at that point several of our top players had already committed. As another person mentioned, the quantity means little if they are not there to see you child. We played in top brackets and played well. So I ask you this, if my kid played against mainly ECNL teams at CASL, Jeff Cup and the top non- ecnl teams at Disney and PDA is she still at a disadvantage. I don't think so. You can figure out the club.

Anonymous said...

I won't discuss scholarship specifics as that is private. But, she had several and they were all from at least 85% to full.

Anonymous said...

I don't go by playing ECNL teams at CASL or Jeff Cup. As GSP don't matter to ECNL teams and these are not league games so mean nothing as far as wins/losses, they play scramble teams (mixing it up with other ages and kids not normally on their teams); playing without commits or kids that may not get a lot of playing time get more playing time.

I can't figure out the club. I don't follow USYS teams.

Anonymous said...

219 . Happy for you, BUT surely the number is irrelevant. Having gone through the process with my child, I find it strange that you got to the offer stage with so many schools simultaneously. Dont most kids proceed with the school they are most interested in and then circle back if they are not satisfied? or is it common practice to have a bidding war.

Anonymous said...

2:18 - I only mentioned Disney because someone asked me. I think Disney, Jeff Cup, CASL, etc are great. Once again, I am not crediting ECNL, fully. I am crediting her Club/coaches and her.

Anonymous said...

Some schools basically opened their pocketbooks to us before she even looked into them. We did tell many schools prior to the end that she was honored about the interest (and she was/we were), but was looking into other areas.

Anonymous said...

2:25 Great defense mechanism you have. But you didn't answer the question.

Anonymous said...

2:27 - I don't envy you or your daughter. It is a hard decision.

In some schools there was genuine interest in more than one for various reasons. Out of all of her final choices, the soccer programs/staff were very, very good and the academics were high level as well.

The differences were mostly in what the schools had to offer outside of soccer. She did a pros and cons list. Again, it was a very hard decision. And, believe me, I am (as is she) very grateful to have been in such a position. It's rough out there. But, always remember, a lot of VERY good soccer programs & schools in all divisions; be flexible.

Anonymous said...

1:35 why are you defending the league? My question to you was is your kid not good enough that she didn't a club's influence? My point if she can ball she would be on the radar period. You didn't like Disney but you loved SD right? Why do people always do that? Give the kids credit not the league or the club with out the kids they have nothing. Then again you recruit by putting down anything non-ECNL cool approach - for me and I am a soccer guy - ECNL league games are just how the USWNT play and we see how well we did with that style - also why the GDA was created so they can have a say and of course the biggest prize of all $$$$$$$.

My kid's team plays really nice soccer and is in flights appropriate to their level and has a record above .500 vs ECNLs teams at CASL and Jefferson and then you throw in Disney on top of that - college coaches never the issue but you do you and keep pumping up the league.

1:58 Agree 100% and they will unless she wants a CA school to come out east for a non major event. Disney & CASL get them.

1:35 Agree 100% - if the team plays top flights at CASL, Disney, Jefferson and PDA non-ecnl flight howis that a negative and how does playing in ECNL trump that?

2:19 you still didn't answer my question R U saying your kid playing at CASL, Disney, Jefferson and PDA non-ECNL flight wouldn't have had the same interest or she needed the league/club's influence? Simple YES or NO.

PS. If she was USWNT material I'm sure she would be on their radar already without the league

Anonymous said...

2:39 - i think i did. Most ECNL teams that I knew attending those tourneys (and some aren't going in the future) don't send their true ECNL squads. So, it is hard to judge.

Are you at a disadvantage? I can't answer that. Only you can. If you think she isn't getting the interest you think she should, then you are disadvantaged. Right?

Anonymous said...

2:39 he is with a sale pitch.

They don't send full ECNl squads and the non-ECNL teams play to win -

GDA top of the pyramid.
USYSA NL and ECNL next in line no matter what he is saying.

If your kid is a player she will be fine.



Anonymous said...

GDA top .... for only 11 girls per age group. You folks have read the specs on the GDA, right?

ECNL after that.

Anonymous said...

2:45 - not sure you understand the concept. If you play a team not at its strongest (not playing most of the commits, playing kids out of position, playing with kids from other teams to give them opportunities, giving more playing time to kids that don't normally get as much), would you really consider that a victory? I guess that is where we differ.

And, no, I don't believe that US Soccer would be at her games without moving. And, I don't think she would have garnered the same interest without moving even going to those tourneys, previously. But, her path and your kid's path may be very different.

Anonymous said...

not putting anyone down here, but all this tells us is that there are schools out there desperate to attracts good kids.

Anonymous said...

it also sounds like you took a very laid back approach. I belie that had you written to these schools, they would come and see your kid play, no matter the Club. If you told me you did and they didnt, then I stand corrected.

Anonymous said...

Can anyone produce a link of non-ECNL college commitments? I'd like to see where the NPL/ Super Y girls are going.

Anonymous said...

3:12 - You can take from it whatever you want. I didn't consider it desperate, but letting us know that they had money set aside for her style of player.

3:18 - And, as she sent out no e-mails, that is an unknown, too. But, I don't know.

Look, I am amazed at how all this played out and how quickly too. Everyone told us; you need to send out e-mails. She didn't. You need to go to this camp and this, she didn't. It was really an unconventional process for us.



Anonymous said...

http://www.excellesports.com/news/rio-defense-sweden-pia-sundhage/

Anyone have any input re this?

Anonymous said...

3:06 i can't speak for your discussions regarding ECNL players not participating at events. But like you I also speak to other clubs. At CASL and Jeff Cup this past year FC VA , Richmond , Alby had all top players. PF was without at CASL as they were clearly pretty weak. While I'm sure you will try to say otherwise I know the truth since I know the top players on these clubs, they were all on the field. Maybe i can send the films.

Anonymous said...

This isn't a secret. Their brochures say who is or isn't there. You might want to look at one at a tourney. The parents handing them out will gladly give one to you.

PDA was without, too. Didn't see Richmond's YNT player. I think MF & WC were without also. I am not saying every ECNL team. FC VA has over 30 players on its roster (had, I have no idea what this year will bring). My understanding, they split the teams to get various kids playing times. They send one team to ECNL events (Stanford) and another to a non-ECNL event, Disney. Not many teams carry that many kids.

In CASL, the tourney director asks the ECNL teams to create composite teams. PF was beating FC VA and then the coach put in other kids in the second half. I was watching before my kids' game. They also beat Syracuse DA who then beat Quickstrike. And Quickstrike beat PF. We are in their league so the games were of interest to me.

When the wins/losses don't matter (aren't league play), everyone gets to play. And, everyone should. Maybe your team doesn't work that way. It is about the kids getting looks you know. There is plenty of soccer out there.



Anonymous said...

At some point you are going to realize we are all on the same side. We all want our kids to have opportunities to play in college and get a great education so they can support us when we get older. LOL

Anonymous said...

Yep, agree. Each kid can only occupy one spot on a roster. Plenty of spots out there.

Anonymous said...

9:50 - great point. Those games are over. Nobody cares. All the championship trophies in the various leagues at the various levels have been handed out. It's a new season coming up, new teams, etc. Maybe some of these people will look forward not backward.

Anonymous said...

ECNL is unmatched for the exposure for the players at their events. However, it is not the only answer. There are over 1000 schools (D1-D3) and not every kid aspires to be on the WNT, or play at UNC/FSU/VT/etc. My kid plays on a good USYS team that had 4 kids commit during their sophomore year. They were seen at places like Disney, JeffCup, CASL, and USYS Regionals, or wrote to coaches and had them come to other tournaments. They all ended up at schools they wanted to go to (whether they play soccer or not) and are all D1 schools of various RPI ranking (some as high as top 40).

There's plenty of opportunities out there, so for the kids not in the top 2% (the ones that can pick their school because they're *that* good) not all is lost if you're not on an ECNL team. It might require a little extra effort contacting coaches and a little luck never hurts.

Anonymous said...

9:43 i like you spin technique. You mention how MF and WC did not have their top players at CASL or Jeff. Cup, this is very true but they actually had no players attend. The teams were not there. The ECNL composite had nothing to do with CASL, the composite was designed by ECNL. Richmond YNT did play at Jeff Cup., you did not see since your team was in the second bracket. PF was the weakest ECNL team by far at both Jeff and Casl, other than a couple top players they have no depth and it showed in the results.

Anonymous said...

the question is why do ECNL teams even bother to attend? they play more than enough games. So why?

Anonymous said...

Can you be on any team for ECNL to be beneficial with college coaches etc or do you have to be on the likes of PDA?

Anonymous said...

People dont put soccer in perspective. The decision to go to a College should surely be based around what you and your kids want as opposed to which soccer team wants you. the only College coaches that matter are the ones who coach the schools your kid wants to attend. I am not in this for random interest. I dont understand people that are.

Anonymous said...

Hey - 5:44 - well, you are incorrect about the ECNL composite re CASL. They actually have a bracket for the composite teams. But guess you would not know that. Stay in the bike lane.

Anonymous said...

Hey 5:44 - This is the press release - the dates are the CASL Tourney -

"RICHMOND, Va. (March 10, 2015) - In an effort to further player development and deepen the player pool from which elite players are developed, the Elite Clubs National League will be hosting a select number of “Composite Events” for ECNL member clubs beginning in the 2015-2016 season. These new and unique events are established to provide players from ECNL Member Clubs with additional competition structures for mixed age group teams, teams competing in non-traditional seasons, and for other development purposes.

“The ECNL recognizes that youth soccer clubs are the drivers of player development across the United States, and one of the biggest ways to improve player development is to help develop stronger, deeper clubs,” said Christian Lavers, ECNL President. “The ECNL Composite Events will be a great tool to help member clubs provide additional competition for their elite players in quiet periods of the year, and also to deepen and strengthen the player pool from which the elite player is developed.“

ECNL Composite Events will provide each participating team three games. To encourage players to “play up” against older competition, ECNL Composite Events will only include U16 and U18 age groups, and will be expected to consist predominantly of mixed age-group teams. Befitting the name “composite,” games at each event will be scheduled to provide “like vs. like” competition based on the make-up of each participating team.

“The ECNL Composite Events will provide multiple positives for player and club development,” said Sarah Kate Noftsinger, ECNL Commissioner. “First, as the trend of top players playing club soccer year round continues to grow across the country, the Composite Events will provide great competition opportunities in these times of the year for these players. Second, the combined age group format will allow players from multiple age groups to play together, pushing young players “up” and challenging them in new ways. Finally, these events will provide exposure and development opportunity for some players on the fringe of ECNL teams to gain more experience and potentially prepare to move up to the ECNL in the future.”

The inaugural ECNL Composite Event will take place December 4-6, 2015 in Greensboro, NC, occurring in conjunction with the NCAA Division I Women’s Soccer College Cup held in Raleigh, NC. The second 2015-2016 ECNL Composite event will be announced in the coming months, and will take place in the late spring of 2016.

The ECNL will hold two ECNL Composite Events each season, giving each member club the opportunity to participate in at least one event in their primary season and one event in their off-season.

Information on how to register for a 2015-2016 ECNL Composite Event will be released in the coming weeks."

Now, I am (as many others are as well) finished with this particular issue.

Anonymous said...

5:44 - Hahahaha. Yeah, PF (and others) followed the request. Your opinion and knowledge is far from accurate. And, not sure why you are throwing stones at various ENCL clubs? Get some coffee; work it out.

Anonymous said...

Hey 9:53 - Thank you for the post. Very informative. Our club did that as well.
Don't you love those know-it-all's who don't? My grade school teacher would say to the kids like that, who rambled without accuracy, "empty barrels make the most noise." Says it all.

Anonymous said...

and still no one tells me why the ECNL clubs even attend these non ECNL events

Anonymous said...

10:28 pm - Amen.

Anonymous said...

10:20 - CASL is an ECNL club that also has non-ECNL teams. I think some of it is supporting a fellow club. These games don't count for anything for ECNL. Maybe because the games happen at the time the College Cup is going on so maybe some of it is for support for the games. But, yes, I agree. Why attend?

Then, you have the PDA event in May, which is an ECNL event (the games matter for league play; counted in the overall standings) open to non-ECNL teams as well. But, the games count so that is why many ECNL teams attend.

Anonymous said...

You are right the YNT U17 play up for Richmond U did play. However their top scorer and Tennessee commit was not there.

Penn Fusion did not have their top players at either event mentioned. All committed kids except a GK did not attend Jeff cup or play with the CASL team.

FC VA was playing its top team at CASL

PDA sat some top players in rotating games at Jeff cup

CFC was in full form at CASL

In answer to the above question, the reason ECNL teams field teams at non ECNL events is to allow opportunity for uncommitted kids to be showcased in a results-don't-matter venue. There is equal play-time and several play ups are usually present. Yes there are decent amounts of coaches at both of these Non ECNL events and they are valuable. besides, wouldn't want to deny the USYSA team the opportunity to brag over their wins over ECNL teams.

Anonymous said...

9:45 The composite in 2015 was not part of CASL it was an independent event hosted by ECNL. Some ECNL teams participated, others did not, some did both. I am not one of the original posters but I know enough to say that some the ECNL teams look down on Non- Ecnl teams or NPL teams,they do this because they look at the NPL teams from their own club as measurement. Teams that are not associated with ECNL are often as good or better than many ECNL teams. Some that come to mind are NEFC, Quickstrike, PA Strikers from the Northeast. KK Krush, Sunrise in South, and we can include many others. Considering the ever-changing youth soccer scene, these may be your competition next year. The situation is fluid.

Anonymous said...

10:59 what makes you think the USYSA team's don't rotate their players it is a showcase event after all who cares about the results besides you just bringing them up.

10:45 the best USYSA teams are in NC when the CASL event takes place but they are at the national League Showcase. The only non-ecnl teams at CASL are the teams not playing national league and if the ECNL reserves struggle with results then how good is that roster anyway if you remove a few players and the team can't win regardless if the games count or not the players still play to win don't they?

hey 9:53 Greensboro is an hour away from raleigh and none of CASL event fields are in Greensboro

Anonymous said...

11:47 Sorry forgot about the strong NPL teams that are US Club only they would be at CASL.

Anonymous said...

I kinda laugh that folks think these results EVER matter. I also find it sad that kids on teh same team as yours are deemed only good enough to play certain events that you deem meaningless. SO why are they on the team at all? If you have more kids than you can get into games so you have to play overspill events, something is wrong. But parents fall oer themselves to spend more money. Such a great business.

Anonymous said...

No one said anything about USYSA teams subbing patterns and if you think that there haven't been all kinds of bragging over results then you haven't been on these boards very much. PF I think beat the USYSA region 1 champion Syracuse in CASL so all the teams are at least on the level- including lowly PF. PF does seem to struggle with depth probably in part because of Strikers and the other 3 ECNL teams diluting the player pool in Philly. All of those PA teams seem to be struggling. I guess game on now with the age changes this year and roster shuffling happening and then again with the DA next year. NJ will be interesting with 3 DA programs to choose from. Those with 10th graders will barely see an impact, but will have 2 years with dueling elitism. DA = ECNL in LI. Additional DA clubs added to the NYE/W mix. MD will be interesting. I can't believe there isn't a Spirit/Bethesda merger ala NEFC Breakers in the works. Eastern an Baltimore area MD has been underserved. Some will go to Classics and others probably to PF. When is Classics going to publish its 00 roster?

Yes people seem relatively eager to chose to have their kids as bottom roster players on 22 kid ECNL rosters. They understand the risks going in but somehow deny that their kid is at risk to be one of the ones not dressing for game day. What bugs me is all the fussing over playtime when you know going in there is a fat roster. People need to do a better job at evaluating their kids' levels.

Anonymous said...

or perhaps roster sizes should be capped.

Anonymous said...

They are at 30

Anonymous said...

which effectively means they are not

Anonymous said...

Don't you think you should take some responsibility for the unhappiness of your child if you encourage her to take a spot on a 22-25 player roster and she is not going to be in the top 14? Should the clubs send you a written evaluation estimating her beginning rank order on the roster so that you can guess as to her relative risk of being benched during a competition and playing 15 minutes/half? I think this may be reasonable to give you some idea where she stands since not everyone is a soccer guy and can take off his rose colored glasses when it comes to evaluating his Mia.

Anonymous said...

i am stunned that people give the Clubs a pass. Most parents are not experts. Rank order is utter nonsense. It should be a collection of 18 or so players who play together. Each player should be coached to her max ability and the diff between the top and bottom should not be so large that kids dont play enough. if it is, the Coach is to blame,. Dont put the kid on the team in the first place. Its sad how parents accept all sorts of things that are just wrong as long as it does not impact them.

Anonymous said...

I think its subtleties like this that led to the GDA. We will see if it works over time

Anonymous said...

Results matter to get accepted to natuional tournament and to be placed in upper brackets. Of course that assumes that your child is striving for a D1 one top 100 school and is a very good but not national team player. Gk can get around this if they play for a weak team but get noticed at ODP or because they are 6' tall and really good. Most important for usysa teams to keep credinility and be able to be evaluated against decent competition.

Anonymous said...

Top 100? def not. Most of the coaches at the top programs are pretty smart. One question for people who say result matter unless YNT. How do the kids get on YNT in the first place? How do they get noticed playing on teams with mediocre results>

Anonymous said...

NTC regional ODP. Didn't we say Penn Fusion was weak. Penn Fusion kid recently at YNT camp.

Anonymous said...

What was said was that beyond a few top players at PF the team is weak and lacks depth. The results support this.

Anonymous said...

11:47 Great post. Many an ECNL team looks down on what the consider their B team NPL players. I agree that the NPL teams not part of ECNL clubs seem to acheive higher. Also like the part about new clubs coming into ECNL each year, interesting how those supposed subpar non- ECNL teams gain instant credibility once included in ECNL. The quality of the team is not always dictated by the league.

Anonymous said...

5:30 What measurement are you using for the basis of your claim that non-ECNL NPL teams achieve higher than their ECNL counterparts? Wins? Hardward? GS points? Player placement in college?

Anonymous said...

Results vs ECNL teams.

Anonymous said...

6:42 can we look for your Ws against PDA ECNL?

Anonymous said...

Never had the opportunity to play PDA. But 7- 2 against the others. Alberstson, WC, FC Va, PF, Richmond. PDA is by far the best I saw this year. No comparison. IMO

Anonymous said...

by far, def not. Don't even think PDA parents would tell you that. I will say that eventually taking the best players from other ECNL teams will probably make you better and certainly make the opposition weaker. The whole record vs ECNL team thing is so stale. I know some excellent ECNL players who have never played vs non ECNL competition. The whole premise is pretty funny. Im guessing this is a QS poster. Good team for sure. I would say mid level ECNL team. would be on the bubble to make the CL .

Anonymous said...

9:27 QS would probably do just fine in the middle of the pack. Even i will admit that that two wins over FC VA, two over Alby and other wins over WC, PF puts them in the better than average category. The other poster must be a PF blowhard mom who found someone that pushes back.

Anonymous said...

Lol playing guess the poster: I am going with NJ stallions (new AP team) and Quickstrike. But I think there are more than 2 posters.

Anonymous said...

Doubt it's Stallions, AP team went many ways, heard AP kid went to MF with 3-4 other. A few to WC and other places. Maybe some to Stallions. QS beat them twice last year also. Should be interesting come November to see where all of the Alby players show up. Band of gypsies for sure.

Anonymous said...

Last season is last season. Why some are still beating their chest is crazy. The new teams will be the ones to beat. Several clubs/teams will be much, much stronger with the age change and graduating up kids. It will be fun to watch. Get your popcorn ready.

Anonymous said...

8/19 - 2:32 - disagree with your analogy re GK's. A weak GK anywhere won't get looks from top 100 schools, ODP or at 6 feet tall.

A weak team can be successful with a very good goal keeper. They can be in every game. But a great team won't win with a weak goalkeeper. That's how THAT position works.

Anonymous said...

6:05 - Agreed. They have to be not only very good in the net, but on the field and directing up the field. We have found that very few top programs don't want sweeper keepers.

Anonymous said...

What is the ruling re GDA and high school soccer? I realize it is not a concern for this fall season, but is there any grandfathering language for the older kids?

Anonymous said...

Anybody know what is going on with the ECNL website? I tried to access last year's results from Champions League & North American Cup. Nothing. No league results and history. How is that helpful? Any where we, the paying customers, can complain?

Anonymous said...

Still don't understand this team talk. I really don't care that much about it. All the teams are what they are and if done right all the kids should play. The ones that win are usually the deepest ones with the strongest benches. So I ask you, would you rather your kid was a top level player or she played on a team that had great depth? If she is a top player, does it really matter to you if she plays on a team with great depth? Teams are not really defined by the top end talent in the ECNL which is why so many YNTs play on mediocre teams. Its actually all about depth and that is all about the area you recruit from and how heavily you do that. Some do it better that others.

I just want my kid to keep improving and to enjoy every minute she plays. If her teams wins a few games, thats great. If not, I hope she learns from it.

Anonymous said...

6:36

Was on the GDA website and toward the end of the FAQ they said to SEE THE BOYS RULES, as they will try to closely follow them for anything not spelled out specifically.

I have heard about the grandfathering but it seems they want you to forego HS ball in fall 2017 if you make the GDA.

Anonymous said...

8:45 - thanks! Could be the last year of hs ball for some kids. Enjoy your seasons ladies.

Anonymous said...

7:02 Did the same thing. Looks like it's a new website and no old records available. It sucks.

Anonymous said...

I read somewhere that there was grandfathering being discussed the first year. I'm struggling to find where I found this now...with my daughters' school in mind, I struggle to see the importance of the program, except the social implications. I will ultimately be her decision

Anonymous said...

Yeah, not just old records unavailable for viewing, but rosters, too. The kids' profiles are down so they can't update them for the coaches' viewing. Who is this new ECNL commissioner?

Thank goodness for the GDA. Wish it was this season.

Anonymous said...

U 605, " 8/19 - 2:32 - disagree with your analogy re GK's. A weak GK anywhere won't get looks from top 100 schools, ODP or at 6 feet tall." Who said anything at all about a weak GK?

"Gk can get around this if they play for a weak team but get noticed at ODP or because they are 6' tall and really good. "

The point is top level coaches will come see a great GK no matter what team she is playing for. They will watch her warm up (what scouts for GK do) evaluated her in game performance where she may have more chances playing for a weak team, and invite her to camp where they can test her against top attacking players. yes that IS how is works for some "really good" 6' GKs

Anonymous said...

The new website is garbage

I think someones relative is trying to get this recruitment company, TGS (total global sports) going. It requires a kid to participate to enter a profile. No more easily accessible profiles on a well organized website. One more nail in the coffin...

Anonymous said...

Hate to rehash this, but someone noted that the Greensboro fields for the composite event were not close to the CASL fields. No kidding. This was posted to show the doubters that there was another ECNL event going on and ECNL coupled it with CASL as teams would be in the area.

But if kids are pulled from teams to play at that composite team event, then as you very astutely noted, they can't be at the non-league tourney. Pretty much impossible., right? So replacement kids are moved to the teams; essentially guest playing within their own club essentially. And, that is so they can get face time in front of coaches.

So, for those of you beating your chest about results that have zero meaning in the ECNL world, my kid had several big program coaches put her on their radar after those games and a couple local colleges had her go over to their campuses for unofficial visits while we were down there. And, I didn't think she had a particularly great weekend because of all the switches.

But, the college coaches know what they are looking for in players and wins/losses in those non-league settings in particular don't matter at all.

Anonymous said...

8:12 - Agreed.

Anonymous said...

ECNL at its finest. Its all about glossy marketing, not much more.

Anonymous said...

8:58 Please help me out. I must be slow.
I'm told the college coaches are all over the sidelines for practices, ECNL Showcases and league games yet you need to send teams to open showcases, Why?
As noted earlier this summer at the ECNL championships,Colorado was without key players who attended National camp, should the PDA win be considered a lesser achievement? Not to me. Is this different? Why?

Anonymous said...

I am getting tired of the "prescription" offered by ECNL and their clubs for getting looks, interest and scholarships. The club we are with has rolled out 2 different "Apps/Partnership" in the past 2 years, the ECNL itself has an "App/Partnership" and then individual tournaments have their apps/partnerships. If I signed up for every open market recruiting service not only would I go broke but I would be exposing myself and my daughter to identity theft or putting her in harms way by sharing personal information in a semi-public forum. And the college coaches hardly ever look at this stuff..

It is the personal touch and the additional soft work from the player that will get the introduction. the real prescription is to reach out, provide the information for the player in a personal email and hope your club and HS coaches realize that they have an obligation to provide appropriate references. But no (at least for the club coaches). The player needs to "sign-up" (which means pay to the club approved vendor) and create a profile, select the colleges from a pick list which is then reviewed (maybe) by the coach, DOC, and whoever else at the club for approval. Once approved the coach will then monitor activity between the players and colleges and may offer insight or guidance. NOT HAPPENING. basically the app is making everyone lazy because the fortunate players are getting personal treatment and the others once again are paying into a system that benefits no one except the pockets of the club and coaches.

Anonymous said...

938. I could not agree more. I have no idea why ECNL teams attend non ECNL events. Re PDA, the only ones who should care about PDA are PDA. No one elses opinion matters at all.

Anonymous said...

1020 sounds like MatchFit.

Anonymous said...

This isn't that complicated. There are 2-3 ECNL showcases per year (depending on age group) and " finals" for 3/4 of the teams who "qualify": In very general terms. ECNL PDP also draws coaches, but the kid has to be invited.

These additional showcases do not require a plane ticket and are a cost effective way to provide additional opportunity to non committed kids. Not a problem for those of us whose kids play in these. The committed kids are a little disappointed to be left out quite honestly.

These events also offer kids who may have had to sit out a game in one of the other showcases (due to roster over 18), or only saw 10-15 minutes/half (I won't go into whether that is "right" or not but it is the case for some teams)in the ECNL showcases a chance to be seen in competition.

As for ECNL games, there have been ACC, SEC, and Big 10 coaches at both games and practices for my kid's team, but they were there scouting specific kids. They were not "shopping" for players. There have been patriot league, A10, Ivy, and big east coaches also at some of my kid's ECNL games and we did get some cold contact from some of these who were "shopping". So there is additional exposure through regular games, however the scale of this exposure is different between games and showcase events. At the ECNL showcases over 100 schools regularly spent time watching the games. At the non ECNL about the same to slightly less, but still a lot more than the 25 or so who were intermittently at practices/games during the season.

So in a nutshell, ECNL teams use the non ECNL events to attempt to provide opportunity to the entire roster across the span of the year to be maximally showcased. What's the issue again?

Anonymous said...

10:26 - i second that. ECNL has enough league games and events and travel. These non-league events should just be shelved or pick one.

Anonymous said...

12:39 - requiring a plane ticket isn't the only complaint. It's wear and tear on the kids, your car, taking more vacation days from work and another day or so out of school. The thought process behind it is great, but maybe during the showcase events, there are composite team events as well for kids rotating out for a game or two. This way nothing additional needed.

Also, a few of our girls got dinged up in the non-encl events and wound up missing league games that mattered to them more so than the non-ecnl events. As someone noted, the league games get coaches. And, if it's a big game or opponent, it will draw a bunch of coaches for a game. No easy answer.

Anonymous said...

12:53 - i meant maybe during the ecnl showcase events the league can do something to address this.

Anonymous said...

12:39 - my kid was contacted by who you deemed the non-shopping schools, too, and she never reached out to them first. So, while they are looking at specific kids, they also reach out if they see a player that may fit into their system as well. It would be foolish not to.

Anonymous said...

parents who accept high rosters and then rationalize NOT playing deserve everything they get.

Anonymous said...

What do you mean? Are you saying that in all clubs and teams everyone should play in every game? That doesn't happen even in little league. It's called being a good teammate, too, and waiting for your turn/opportunity and making the most of it. Not only can it be character building, but it's also called life. Also, kids have things that come up, they get sick, have injuries, have SAT's, maybe they are in their sister's wedding, all kinds of things. That is also called life.

I guess you are on a team or only advocate for a team with 11 players?

Anonymous said...

Yeah, I guess I don't understand either. I think a size of 22-24 is probably a good size, right? What is considered a big roster? Anymore than who can suit - 18?
I am assuming that these parents want their kids to play in college too. Where are they finding small rosters there (meaning less than 25) in any division?

Anonymous said...

217 im saying that anyone who is selected to be on a roster should be capable of playing 30 mins per game. And im saying that all players should get tat least that. This si not pro sports and all outr kids are trying to use soccer to get to College. Playing is part of the deal. if you dont think my kid can play 30mins a game, then dont select her to be on the team. Roster size of say 18 can easily accommodate this.

Anonymous said...

wait so the ECNL parent doesn't want to go to WAGS, CASL or Jeff Cup? Ok that's fine. So don't... No one on my kid's team complained about attending these events and lots of kids sat out if they didn't want to go. But others got good interest. its another opportunity that's all. Nothing bad about it. by the time you add travel for region 1 games, national league, USYSA regionals, USYSA nationals and the big tournament showcases like those others in common with the ECNL plus Disney there's a big difference? Not that I have noticed.
I didn't deem them non shopping schools. They have come to my kids games and practices to see specific kids. The ECNL coaches have made that clear to the kids they have come to see. Sure if another kid tears it up they might contact them but they came with the intention to see a specific kid. Usually kids that have been to national camp are the ones they have come to see.

Anonymous said...

Do any ECNL teams go to WAGS anymore? It is a very nice tourney, but too early so most opt out, I thought. Anyway, what is this person rambling about? The non-ECNL teams complain about the ECNL teams now they want them there? Need a scorecard for this bunch.

Anonymous said...

2:44 - it works in theory, but who really does that? I'm not trying to be saucey, I am trying to get some information for sharing. If you find out, please share the info so others may go there too. There seems to be a number of people that share this concern.

Anonymous said...

8/23 @ 2:44 - well, that works in theory, but some kids and their parents just want them to be on a team that gets looks whether they play a lot or not. But I agree with you, the coaches should be up front with the parents about potential playing time. Aren't they? If it isn't there, then you go elsewhere. But, if you want to stay and fight for a spot and playing time (like you do in college), then that is what you do. There is plenty of soccer out there for those that are unhappy with their situations. The coaches understand too. It's all business.

Anonymous said...

2:52 - i hear what you are saying, but know a gal who never went to nat'l camp and played at UVA. And, they found her. There are those kids still out there.

Anonymous said...

it works in practice. there is zero excuse for not trying to develop all your players for the year you have them. If they don't respond, sure, move on. But too many clubs are recruiting to win games so a coach can reap the benefits. They are not really interested in dying to make all the kids as good as they can for one year. i understand recruiting players in college and pros, i don't in Club soccer. If a kid comes to a Club, great, but why do coaches reach out to other teams better players to poach them? If a kid is doing well, why de-stabilize?

Anonymous said...

I guess I have my head in the clouds. Do many clubs poach other players? How much does that go on? If a player is unhappy in their present club, is it considered poaching or providing a way out? Is it the coaches or friends of the kid? And, agree with you if the kid is doing well, leave well enough alone.

But that is when parenting comes in don't you think? I'm not letting my kid leave if she is having fun, doing well, improving. But, if she isn't happy with her progress, then yes, I find another avenue for development.

And coaches should try to develop all the children under their guidance. Don't they? I guess I have had a different experience or my kid has a different approach. I see coaches trying and some kids not paying attention or thinking they don't need to improve. The coach can only take you so far. Most of it is on your own.

Drive and desire are not something he or she can put into the kid if they don't already have it. But if a kid has it and a coach refuses, then that is a horse of a different color. And, then it's time to move to someone who will. Check with your soccer association to see who may be doing additional training, etc. Hope it works out!

Anonymous said...

How exactly does poaching happen? Now that there are brochures passed out at showacses does the coach use the contacts on that to get to the kid? I think what happens more often than not is that there is dissatisfaction present in the player and/or the parents that starts them looking. maybe they know another family on the team they would like to check out further. they call them. Find out more about a potential fit and it goes from there. How often do you think a receiving coach initiates the transfer?

Anonymous said...

Soccer is a very small community. Coaches all know who the impact players are and they can reach them pretty easily. Im not talking about dissatisfied players looking for alternatives, nothing wrong with that. Im talking about Clubs actively trying to convince players to move by making empty promises. PT, exposure(id2, NT), winning. Its very similar to College recruiting in this regard. Many kids look at schools they would otherwise not consider simply because the school shows an interest in the player. Almost everyone feels the need to respond when they feel wanted.

Anonymous said...

You believe that club coaches are directly reaching out to the impact players? Have you heard this is happening directly or is this an urban myth? I have never heard o this directly from any new player or parent related to my kid's team.

Anonymous said...

10:53 pm - are you guys in season already or are you speaking about last season what occurred?
Just trying to get a handle on how this is occurring a coach that isn't developing players when regular sessions aren't happening yet or they are happening and this is already taking place.
You can speak with your DOC about your concerns as well. It may be early enough that your child can be moved to another team even within the organization. Just offering some suggestions. Good luck.

Anonymous said...

8/23: 2:44 - so would your child be better if not selected for this specific team or would it crush her (or you)? I am just wondering what you mean. Is this her target team or are there substantially similar back ups that you could go to? If you are unhappy and feel that you are not getting the services promised, then I would explore other options.

Anonymous said...

845..Happens often.

Anonymous said...

8:37 - I agree but this is also the digital era - so people will hit the boards/blogs because they know that's where parents of players that can ball frequent. They will talk up leagues and clubs where they play and develop the right way and call out others gotsoccer chasers only looking to win and when they win they did it against lower half of the team (the same players they collect money from) everything to make that team a lesser option (like playing 40 games vs 20 is a bad thing for the 2k+). This makes it easy for people to gang up on a team if there is a history - plant the seed! then sit back and wait parents of players that can't play are not on these boards, some are better but all can play and all of us pay.

Anonymous said...

1027 Again how do you know this? Do you have direct information from a recruited player's parent that a coach cold called them? I don't see too much turnover among the top teams. Maybe this year was different with the reshuffle.

Anonymous said...

1115. I only speak to things i have first hand experience of. Hearsay is dangerous.

Anonymous said...

Now this is a reality show, the soccer blogs. Stay tuned, coming to Bravo immediately after RHONJ. :)

Anonymous said...

Do I believe that it happens? Of course. But, I'm thinking parent to parent or kid to kid. People get crazy about this stuff. But, a coach?? Really? I guess I just have higher standards and ethics and think others do as well. Shame. Tarnishes it, ya know?

Anonymous said...

My kid, well me on behalf of my kid as my e-mail was on a contact page of hers, received a bunch of try-out information from clubs even out of state; several states over. And, I heard from some of the parents i have met through soccer things about interest, however, never was a coach on a call, text or e-mail; at least, to my knowledge on the reach outs. I think I would have lost respect for that club if that happened. That's not cool.

Anonymous said...

Just looked at my kid's hs schedule. What is wrong with these AD's? Why the heck are there 11 non-league games (we have 12 league games) in two 1/2 months? They just like to run the kids into the ground. Idiots.
This isn't lacrosse or field hockey? There aren't constant stoppages for checking sticks/nets or who knows why they blow the whistle so much in field hockey. That game seems like it takes forever to get down the field. Gosh, I can't wait for the GDA. So over school ball and it hasn't even started.

Anonymous said...

poaching is always a big topic. The player always has the choice to stay with the team they are on. If they choose to move they were not happy. Parents should be more annoyed with coaches who don't allow players to try out for other teams during try out season, and make threats about being cut if they try out with other teams. If the player was allowed to explore all options during the tryout season there would be less players being poached and leaving during the season.

Anonymous said...

I agree about the coaches and them being territorial. Try outs are just that opportunities to try-out. Feelings should not get hurt. But, i don't think a coach should ever initiate the contact to a parent or worse, a player. If the parent or child reached out and coach or adm person was getting back to them with information, then not an issue. What are the feelings re this?

Anonymous said...

No good coach cares if you try out elsewhere. In fact they encourage it. The joke is that parents actually ALLOW this to happen and comply instead of telling said coach where to stick it. You see the reality is coaches have almost all the leverage because parents give it to them. The only kids with leverage are the truly exceptional ones. Girls soccer is all about the mid level player and clubs and coaches exploit this as much as the can. They feed on the insecurity that being one of many creates. big rosters, no tryouts or else etc

Anonymous said...

parents we are the biggest problem. We let our children join teams with 22 players on the roster and then we complain and question playing time! How many players do we know that ride the bench all weekend after practicing hard and traveling around the state for games. Why?

Anonymous said...

253 because most are actual captive clients. They dont want to go thru the hassle of finding a better fit. Easier to stay and complain or stay and rationalize it - better club etc, etc. They will even applaud when team brings in another player and benches them because they rationalize that the extra wins make their kid more of a prospect. We are all different, but its a strange mindset to me.

Anonymous said...

My Daughter plays ECNL. No more than 16 on roster over past 4 years. All players get on the field. You Need to be on field to get recruited. It worked out for her.

Anonymous said...

My kid was on a team a few years ago where she did not get much PT: maybe 10-15 minutes the entire game. She was not happy and we were not happy to see her unhappy. We suggested to her that she look around. She was uncertain, but agreed to do "tryout training" with several teams. She decided to switch teams. Did so 2 months into the fall season and has been happy since. New team has risen in relative success over these years and old one declined. Good decision for her in the long run. Scheduling college visits for this and next month all good.
If your kid isn't happy with her perceived relative status on the team she has options:
1)Try and improve the coaches perception of her through additional training focused on the identified and articulated weaknesses
2)Switch teams to one where her skill set and style place her in the upper third of the new coach's rank order
3)Suck it up

Regarding "poaching" this is a silly conversation. There is no ownership of the kid. Why is this any different that the sale and purchase of any other product or service. Why shouldn't someone be able to market to you a product/ service that he or she thinks is an improvement over the one you are currently using? Free markets and competition lead to the best products at the cheapest price. We should be encouraging the clubs competition not declaring it somehow improper.

Anonymous said...

3:14

It would be MAYHEM if poaching were not frowned on and thus a common practice during seasons

Summers are fair game.

Anonymous said...

314 sorry, but I have to disagree, as would you if the players being poached were to replace your child AFTER tryouts. Coaches need to be measured by how they improve the players they train, not how well they can attract others. I NEVER hear parents on these boards sharing REAL information like..have you seen how much team A has improved. Coach must be doing something right. Instead its we won this and that therefore we must be good. The standards we hold Clubs and coaches to is laughably low.

Anonymous said...

So your objection to employing a true free market to soccer teams is that a new better player might take your kid's play time? Then your kid is in over her head and her team would be better served by the new kid entering into the system and yours relegated to the, more appropriate, level below.

A true ebb and flow of players would result in an equilibrium that would ultimately be more stable and better for everyone. The best programs (as defined by those that most successfully attract the best players- because there must be some characteristics about them that results in their relative attractiveness) would consolidate talent. That talent consolidation is import to overall soccer development in this country. Further the next tier down kids would level on the next level teams an so forth. There would only be chaos until equilibrium was reached. Except in the case of a coach switching clubs or other change in value which would result in a new small ripple of player movement.

Within a free market model, kids would end up in a more stable rather than less stable environment best fitting to their level at any given point in time.

Anonymous said...

341. What metric do you use to determine a coach's relative success? Most non soccer playing parents have no idea how to evaluate a player's relative development and have even less of a basis for comparison. If you think winning is not a valid metric then you are mistaken.

Anonymous said...

Ebb and flow happens in the tryout season/summer

Anonymous said...

8/23 @8:09 - sorry, i misread the initial post. you are correct re your breakdown.

Anonymous said...

3:41 - agreed. a good chalk talk session for parents would be good.

Anonymous said...

503. Not at all. I have no problem with any kid earning a spot thru the open tryout process. I have a problem with 22 kids on a roster and players being added post tryouts. You quote free mots, but that is a terrible analogy. This is very simple, we all pay the same and deserve broadly similar treatment. That includes a fair selection process and respect. For the record, my kid is fine. It is humorous to me how people assume that someone who want things to be fairer and accountability to be BOTH ways must be suffering under the current system. I just believe in fair. Fair benefits everyone.

Anonymous said...

538 if you think winning is a valid metric to the 14th kid on the roster who plays 20 mins then you are mistaken. If you think that winning benefits anyone but the coach and club, then again I feel you are mistaken. Winning AFTER developing ALL your players , getting them ALL the exposure they need to play at the next level, treating them ALL with respect is true victory indeed. Winning can be part of the story but it is never all of it at this level. The real winning is the kids getting where they want to go. Personally, I don't care who wins the games. i respect the coaches who produce great players and make all their players better. There are VERY few out there.

Anonymous said...

8:16 - winning is a metric though. Doesn't mean the only metric, but a measuring tool. And, it is not the score, only, but how the team worked to get the score; how they may have come back from being down; or how they protected their lead. So, like it or not, it is a tool in the toolbox to judge development of a child and a team.

Anonymous said...

And, that 14th kid may be responsible for the winning goal (hello sydney leroux).

Anonymous said...

816 I do not agree that because your little Mia makes any particular club, and I think it should be understood that your spot is with the club and not a particular team, then she is entitled to play 30 minutes in any game because you pay a fee. The fee is inclusion in the club and club training and game opportunity. However to realize that opportunity she must perform at a level that doesn't impact the other player's opportunity and yes indeed the club's opportunity. She didn't earn it at 2 day a tryout; she earns it throughout the year. Your kid is going to struggle when she doesn't have you paving the way and she has to earn what she gets. Unless of course you plan to will her the family business- something I don't recommend given you haven't taught her how to work for what she wants.

Anonymous said...

Regarding heavy rosters(ECNL many times) and playing time...I believe coach should tell your daughter "you made the team but you will need to compete for play time" Then it is her choice to stay or leave...how about D1, riding the bench for 2 years before getting play time? Worth it or not? Choice...
Also think about this. Many elite coaches believe it's all about the development and training; many clubs play way too many games. My daughters participated in clinics with a renowned NT coach and his belief is in a ratio of 5-6 training sessions/1 game, not the crazy game schedule many clubs have...
Thoughts to ponder...

Anonymous said...

719 i love you parenting tips, but just because i feel that way does not have any bearing on my kid at all. I suggest you focus on yours. Absolutely she earns it at a tryout , especially if she is going to a new team. I understand that putting winning in perspective is very difficult for many of you because you associate the score with success. I believe that if you eliminate the score form games when analyzing them and looked at who created more, who possessed better, who made good decisions etc. You will have a very different view. If my daughter is solving the problem she faces on the field day in day out irrespective of the score, she is winning. If a kid is making poor passes , bad decisions and her team is still winning is that good? These teams are not really on a level playing field in many ways. Winning consistently has very little to do with top talent.

Anonymous said...

827 . so that means to get ratios right EVERY kid should be seeing the field for meaningful minute IF the goal is to develop no ?

Anonymous said...

9:20 are you talking about our WNT? They win a lot but play ugly soccer when it comes to decisions.

8:27 Dude - parents pay over 2k for their kids to develop. Read all the websites MEANINGFUL games are always mentioned. If a kid is not playing in meaningful games then they are not developing how is that on the kid if they never get a chance to develop? Must be what 9:20 is talking about these teams are not looking to develop instead are looking to win and this is the same player pool the top D1 and NT scouts look at right?

The kids are paying for school regardless if they play or not, don't buy your argument of earning playing time. The club holds a tryout and takes players that can benefit the team it's on them to develop the players not just take their money and that means playing in meaningful games. I'mall for the ratio but then every player needs to play in I'll say it again meaningful games not showcases to make up the minutes unless they believe those are meaningful games but the gurus on this board believe they are not

It's not on the player if they are not making the right decisions they need to make mistakes in order to get better 30 minutes out of 80 is not asking for a lot pal and I agree if the team takes the player then should play the player not just take their money.

if you want a good metric forget winning -winning is the end game for every game. What is a teams passing % more specifically a player's. I love the players that win the ball hold it way to long and then pass it to a player that has a player right on them so they lose the ball and get blame for a bad first touch or are not strong enough instead of if the pass was made earlier everybody looks good and the team has a better chance to create.

Anonymous said...

2016 WAGS Tournament
Girls U17 - SHOWCASE I

Bracket 01
LOWER MERION SC STORM (PAE)
FC VIRGINIA ECNL 00 (VA)
SAC PREMIER BLUE (MD)
TRIANGLE FUTBOL ALLIANCE 00 (NC)

Bracket 02
FC VIRGINIA UNITED ELITE 00 (VA)
NVSC JR. MAJESTICS '00 (VA)
WESTON FC 2000 - NPL (FL)
PLAINEDGE EXPLOSION (NYE)

Bracket 03
BEACH FC 00G RED (VA)
BRYC 00 ELITE (VA)
CYA SOCCER SANTOS (VA)
WEST FLORIDA FLAMES 99G ELITE BRANDON (FL)

Anonymous said...

1015 AMEN.

Anonymous said...

922 meaningful minutes how often? And I maintain with an appropriate level team. Again I do not think a kid should be offered a spot on a team, but a spot within the club to be moved within the relative competitive environments based on her level at any given time relative to other like aged children. 1 game -30 minutes/q 2 weeks is more than enough for development as long as training is happening 3 -4 days/ week ( even if you have to secure additional training for your child) and includes some game simulation situations. We overstate the frequency of competition in the role of player development. We need competition to guage progress and to provide experience, but ioptimal development doesn't require the frequency of competition that we Americans demand.

Anonymous said...

827 you cannot compare college to club. many kids on a College roster have been recruited and several PAID. if the Club kids were getting paid to pay I would agree with you. Too many applyt pro metrics to Club soccer. Not at all comparable. And spare me the life lesson part. Would you be happy if in school say ONLY the best mathematicians were allowed to take SAT prep, because the rest had not earned it by not getting the best grades in class? Or should the teachers teach them less because they are not good enough?

Anonymous said...

So you say try-outs for try-outs. Like pool players, you are part of the pool you play based on where you have developed. Hmmm.
An interesting concept, but I don't think the internet will be able to withstand the blogging storms that ensue after the teams have been picked from the pools. LOL
There is no easy solution to any of this. But enjoying the lively banter for sure!

Anonymous said...

But it IS a life lesson even in school. You don't always get the part in the play you wanted. Sometimes you have to continue to work at your craft and get it the next time. No different. Read the stories of the successful people in life who worked through adversities and that includes athletes. Being in the game means the game of life, too.

Anonymous said...

And, the best mathmematician may not ace the vocab/grammar part of the SAT and vice versa with a wordsmith. Only further proving that there are no easy solutions to any of this. Oh wait, yes there is, have your child play lacrosse instead.

Anonymous said...

ECNL appears to be looking to backfill at all costs. 2 more teams just added. Pittsburg Hounds and Tennessee. The obvious signs of a panicked league. If anything ECNL should go smaller to remain relevant. Not a good sign when things are being added on the fly.

Anonymous said...

Let's give them all a medal because they're all as good as the player next to them!
Go Hillary!
College will be free and who cares about recruiting!!!

Anonymous said...

its not about whether they ace it or not. Im paying for a service and that service includes playing. No one has said EQUAL time, there is a degree of earning more, but its not start from ZERO, that is nonsense. Last time i checked all the kids on a winning team get medals whether they played 10 mins or 80 mins , should we stop that as well and only celebrate those who play say 60mins or more? No one said they are as good, but they were good enough to be selected correct? The extremists on here are a joke. Blinded to what is fair and equitable. its the same mentality that allows coaches to mistreat the marginally weaker players. the message is - if it dos not impact my kid negatively, then its fair.

Anonymous said...

Some clubs will allow a player to ride a bench all year, take $3000 from them and cut them the following year. If your roster size is 22 at least 5 of those players are there to help cover costs! If a coach takes a player it should be because they are good enough to get some playing time.

Anonymous said...

10:15 thanks and 10:55 me too some good stuff

12:17 I agree. Let's say 4 players at $2,500 that's $10,000 on top of the $45,000 the ONE team brought to the table so a team of 22 brings $55,000 x 2 teams that's $110,000 per age a group x 10 age groups = 1.1 Million $ for 20 coaches (really less since some coach multiple teams) plus the admins an of course tournaments and field maint plus indoor rentals. To not play a KID is acceptable in your words? I don't care what they earn or don't earn. If you are not one of these in the $ then you are a big part of the problem pal. Again 1/3 of a game is not a lot to ask for $2,500.

And to my boy 10:59 How are the the top of the roster learning this? isn't it the opposite - it becomes expected regardless of execution similar to our WNT again?

Anonymous said...

12:40 here again not calling anyone out just speaking in general

Anonymous said...

I think all agree with you. If you aren't going to play someone, then don't take them. Will that crush your child or you is the issue? Some of this are the parents and their egos.

Someone used a teacher analogy. Well, as the education starts to go higher, i.e., high school and college, the classrooms and classes are determined by which kid can be best served by it. Right? Are AP classes filled with kids that didn't test into it? Nope. So are those teachers not doing their jobs because ALL the kids didn't fit into the rubric? Not at all. Some have it and some don't.

No one is saying that a coach should not attempt to develop a child; reach inside and try to get the best out of him or her. If you don't think you are getting the product for which you are paying, then go elsewhere. It's that simple. To accept what is going on tells me that you can't back up what you put in print anonymously. If my kid wasn't being developed or she wasn't enjoying her teenage years doing a sport, then I go elsewhere. It's that simple. THAT is what I don't understand. But, if the coach/club is up front and says hey, we will give you a spot, but she may see very little playing time unless she improves and you (as the adult) accept those terms, then the blame game ends with you.

Sometimes kids need to change their surroundings to thrive because they have already lost confidence in themselves. This isn't being blind to the struggles of a teenager, it is another suggestion as an avenue that may work. Go open your own Club! Create the place where all the kids go to play and develop.

Look if you aren't going to visit your kid in a hospital all the time; don't you think you are already ahead in the game? Just keep that in mind, too, that's all.

Anonymous said...

12:40 - 10:59 here. You don't know what the top part went through to get there. Maybe they sat on the bench with their previous team or were undervalued. They finally received an opportunity and took the most of it.

Anonymous said...

if you are accepted to AP classes the assumption is you are good enough. You receive the same class material and are tested the same. the fact that keeps getting lost is that you have been deemed good enough by the coach. Good enough to be practice fodder is unacceptable.

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