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Monday, August 14, 2017

U18 Girls Youth Soccer

This page is focused on Under 18 girls youth soccer, primarily in Region 1 but everyone is invited to share and post.

Teams face increased competition for the top players, (who are increasingly attending college showcases).

More teams consolidate and the best teams--academy soccer, club soccer and high school teams--battle to attract and retain the right player mix.

Stay tuned. This is bound to be good.

2,360 comments:

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Anonymous said...

coaches ...not just including Rutgers (she was part of the event coaching staff, too).

Anonymous said...

216 All of these things are only as good as tin integrity of the process and unfortunately there is none. Ill tell you a little story. A friend of mines daughter was never invited to a PDP or Id2 camp, in spite of the fact that every coach in the league feared her. Actually went to NT camp before ever getting an invite to a PDP.

Still believe its based on the other coaches ?

Anonymous said...

11:35 & 11:56 - that is part of the problem with US Soccer. They need to go outside their fifedom. Get different ideas and perspectives. This is why they make robots. Their hiring model is robotic.

Anonymous said...

2:39 - yes, it shows me that there are other avenues to NT. So, while you see glass half empty; I see half full.
I see that your buddy's daughter maybe didn't like being left off the list and took the rest of the season to show why she should not have been. That's a gamer. Congrats to her.

I am not ignoring the politics. Unfortunately it does happen a lot in soccer. My kid was a victim to it as well. She got pissed. And, she never had any coach kick in the door for her. She does it because she hated that taste knowing she was better and just didn't have a buddy in the system as a coach picking. But she used it as motivation.

Anonymous said...

248 i only tell the story becasue there are rose tinted glasses out there. the lack of integrity among the youth soccer folks is stunning. You need to keep your eyes open. there is very little objective impartiality in this stuff . it the biggest obstruction to development in the US.

Anonymous said...

2:52 - 2:48 here. Thank you and I agree. I am one of the ones in the rose colored glasses (maybe you can tell from my post), but I have my eyes WIDE open behind them. :) It's unfortunate as it's kids' sports, but that is what they have become.

Anonymous said...

10:15, Don't think all of the PF girls from Classics originated there or were there long. Can't give PAC that much credit.

Anonymous said...

Pretty sure the twins were there from u9-u12. The PDP kid actually came to an open PAC training this winter. Just blended didn't stand out. Not worried about the 99/00 PAC next year if that's the best of PF

Anonymous said...

349 its funny. the kid got scholarship offers from big soccer schools in 8th grade, but could not get invited to a PDP or ID2 camp. Makes sense right?

Hate haters said...

This blog is for haters,maybe if your kids trained harder they could make pdp.Then maybe be seen my kid plays for the hated Pda and we are into pdp and I can tell you there are 12 year olds there that could hang with 90 percent of u16/17 yes I said it 12 year olds so get over your hatred cause your kids didn't make it and train.

Anonymous said...

That sounds like garbage to me. Any kid with eight grade offers at "big soccer" schools is going to PDP. So not consistent with reality.

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Anonymous said...

902 its a fact. Hard to believe, yes, but a fact. Dont want to name names, but if I did , there are several readers of this blog who would confirm it

Anonymous said...

Even if this is true and except for parents' ego, I just can't accept for one second that an 8th grader should be making verbal commits to anything whatsoever!
imho...

Boon town said...

Last post I Agree however I think some are saying don't put down pdp.Also my daughter is in it and I watch ever week seventh graders compete as if they were 16/17.

Anonymous said...

918 who said she committed? Not much you can do about unsolicited interest? There are a few kids who committed in 8th grade. Does not make then better players.

Anonymous said...

Well if we are talking about Rutgers and their eighth grade PDA kids. I get it. PDA may have their national level super studs get invited to PDP and widen the Rutgers offers to the excellent, but not topmost 8th graders the coaches see frequently and have a good handle on. But no I don't believe that an 8th grader getting "unsolicited" interest and then that turns into an offer meaning the kid has visited etc not getting a PDP invite is widespread reality. The 8th grade interest does not support that this is a late bloomer kid. Further you say she went to national camp? All the u14/15 YNT kids are invited to PDP. Some choose not to attend as a superfluous event for them.

If your story it true then this is a one time situation not a rampant example of a egregiously flawed system. I know the kids at the NE PDP and sure, there could have been a kid or two also invited, the lines are not hard and fast between kids, but in general the choices are obvious. The metro section was smaller than usual because it was held indoors. Instead of 14 or so per team there was 11 so the gray zone kids can be even more questioned as to who got it versus who didn't/ What I thought was remarkable was how many Bucks kids were invited and how few many more successful teams were putting into the mix.

Anonymous said...

937 I just dont see it in the same light as many do. The biggest reasons is the feedback I get for participants.Many of the kids who attend tell me they dont get much from it outside of social interaction. I know 4 players who were invited this year who turned it down basis their experience last year. That is a pretty negative observation.

1056 I cant tell you if its rampant or not. I do know that any selection process that relies heavily on people who have a vested interest in doing certain things for commercial benefit is subject to abuse. Especially in a sport that parents are not so knowledgeable about. The club make up of these events often reflect the fact that original invites cancel and they replace with local kids. I dont think the choices are obvious at all.

Good discussion

Anonymous said...

What percentage of PDP kids have been to national camp? Quite a few. Even if you think that the national camp selection process is flawed (as do I), it's hard to argue against those kids being included. PDA were national champs at 99/00 last year hard to argue with any of those kids inclusion. I scratch my head at all the Bucks kids, but I don't know of any better kids left behind. There were only a couple of CFC kids. I guess all the clubs need to have some representation. The PF kids I think at least half were national campers. WC the same their kids included are top shelf and both those clubs didn't have huge numbers for their relative success. Matchfit low numbers but again who is better? Who knows at WNY? Anyone with comments regarding the other divisions, but sure given selection bias there could be an argument here or there, but aggregious errors? Not really

Anonymous said...

March 27 4:59. Bucks website lists 2018 kids as going to Brown, Columbia, Notre Dame, St.Josephs, Bucknell, Bloomsburg. I don't know who went to PDP but they must have good players?
http://www.crusa.net/fc-bucks-premier/college-commitments

Anonymous said...

932 sorry,but that is really funny. All but Notre Dame are middle or lower end roster ECNL level committments. Bloomsburg is NPL level. Seriously, bucks got a crazy disproportionate share of the PDP roster. No idea why given their history or lack there of

Anonymous said...

march 2017 10:00. Maybe they are. I don't know enough about ECNL committments at the other ECNL clubs. I know my daughter would be happy to play at some of those colleges. playing and studying at Brown, Columbia, or Notre Dame should deserve congratulations, not something to shake your head at. Where have the 2018s from other clubs at the PDP committed to. I would guess PDA has strongest list. What about PF and CFC?

Anonymous said...

Look it up

Anonymous said...

I looked up the other PA ECNL teams. It didn't appear that the colleges such as Brown , Bucknell, St. Joes are lower end of roster committments like you suggest. Each 2018 team had maybe 2 or 3 players that had committed to stronger programs. I would think that those committments are at the higher end of the ECNL rosters. If I am incorrect I would welcome an example of a 2018 team that these colleges would be mid to lower level roster.
The number of players committed to study and play at good schools from all the ECNL teams is encouraging.

Anonymous said...

1058
I am not sure what you looked up but on the PF website there top of the roster kids going to UNC, UVA, Duke, Va Tech, Northwestern. The kids who didn't do to PDP are more often committing to midmajors, Ivys etc. I don't think anyone is saying these Bucks kids aren't going to good schools, but their commitments support the original premise that some kids invited to PDP are there for political reasons while other superstar kids getting "top" offers in 8th grade are excluded. Those Bucks commitments actually support that something fishy is happening because kids with PDP invitations should be top of the roster kids going to power 5s on significant scholarships. That they aren't, raises a flag especially since Bucks was afforded so generous an allotment of PDP slots this time around.

Anonymous said...

459 Im not aware of many national campers who went to Pdp. You make it sound like there are/were several. I did not know we had that many in our division of the ECNL.

Anonymous said...

1058 not OP, but when discussing soccer as a sport in itself as opposed to a means to a College degree, you will get varying opinions. From a soccer PoV those school;s are not top level. Academically, they clearly are. So it depends how you are assessing the schools. As a measure of soccer excellence, they dont count for much. Are kids to be congratulated for going there, of course ? Top schools.

When you associated those commits, with soccer excellence you open the door for the reply you got. Clever ids who are ok at soccer fill those rosters with a few high level players who want an Ivy education. All great choices though

Anonymous said...

Anyone doubt that the kids going to UVA, Duke, and UNC (harder entry than Yale out of state) couldnt have gone Ivy or patriot league? - Nope.
Any doubt that the Ivy and patriot league would have been able to play soccer at all much less receive a scholarship in the ACC- Yup...

Anonymous said...

There were indeed more than several.

99,00,01 all well represented.

Anonymous said...

935 more than several what ? A national team player is technically one who has represented the US in competition. A kid who has been to one camp in the last 3 years does not qualify for me, but may for you. I dont think there are several of the former, maybe a few of the latter.

Anonymous said...

Specifically noted camp invitees in the original post 459 for your refenernce ye of short memory..., Camp invitations, despite you commentary does indicated some objective accomplishment that would support a pdp invitation- the original point of the post. And yes, several have been "capped" in YNT international events.

Anonymous said...

9:33 - I disagree. I know kids going to Patriot League and Ivys that are on US soccer radar and at PDP's. Several should have been out there already but for the politics.
At least a few that had very generous offers at schools from various conferences including ACC. Don't be a conference snob. Oh, Midge P. was a top pick at NWSL draft (Harvard).

Many power 5 schools are at home watching NCAA's. Some kids want to make a program better and be that cinderella team. Some want to join one already strong. It's nice to have choices for those talented and smart kids.

The last few years, the top 16 teams have varied a lot. And the same team has not won in quite a few years. The once dominating programs are getting competition from all the conferences. And that is what we are seeing internationally as well at the NT level, the gap is closing. It's good to see.

Anonymous said...

11:54 - I agree as well. Just to get that level of additional training makes them an asset to their team as they will raise the playing level around them. Isn't that the point?

Anonymous said...

12:09 - I agree with you too. Many want to play right away and in some big programs some may have to wait at least a year or so in the "system."
And, some in the big programs may never see significant playing time at all as some of the roster is the practice team. Some kids forced out by not getting any playing time and opening up a roster spot after a transfer. Not trying to be a buzz kill, but that is the reality of college sports.

Anonymous said...

Sorry those Bucks kids going IVy and patriot wouldn't get a sniff at upper level power 5s. maybe like Indiana, Pitt or something, but no way Duke, UNC, and UVA. Again the point of the post was specific to PDP invitations.

Anonymous said...

So several in that conference. Sorry. I must have missed that. Or maybe we define several differently.

Anonymous said...

3/25 @ 7:37 - love your post. Agree. You don't get better just going to practice. That's only part of it.

Anonymous said...

1:22 - please explain??

Anonymous said...

1154. I dont think anyone said what you are suggesting. the comment was insinuating that in some cases PDP invites are not a indicator of quality. Here is why. they are distributed across the teams in a conference. SO if team A has 15 players worthy, they will be passed over for lesser player on a less represented team. Coach As PDP lvl may well not be Coach Bs.

I personally think PDPs are a waste of time and yet another product designed to make us feel we are getting our "moneys worth" .I dont understand the need to be "recognized", but thats my view Everyone is entitled to one.

Anonymous said...

1214 really? i dont think the 2 are in any way linked. Some kids may have that quality, but I would be it is VERY few. If a kid trains 4 days per week, does going to a PDP make any difference at all? Probably not

Anonymous said...

1209 Cmon man. The person is not being a snob at all. he is just responding to a comment that said those commits MUST equal a bunch of great players. Your arguments are very flawed Surely the biggest challenge is joining a very strong program and making that even better.? Thats great for Purce, but no one said it was impossible. there are great players at those schools . there are just more at USC or UCLA or Duke. None of which are academic pushovers either.

The top 16 have not varied that much. The core is largely the same. The gap that you refer to is more a case that coaching and tactics are leveling the playing field. quickly.

Go look at any single elimination event and tell me that the same team wins often. They dont. I think you could make a strong case that the ACC regular season title is the hardest thing to win . Harder than the College cup in many ways. What FSU manged to do is unbelievable.

An At NT level, I dont thin there ever was a technical or tactical gap. The USA just had more players. Once other countries reach that critical mass, the extra players the US has at the margin become irrelevant.

Anonymous said...

1:32 - from my read, the comment you are addressing had to do with NT camp not PDP. And I agree with the prior poster. Getting add'l training at NT camp worth it.

Anonymous said...

is a pdp better than going to the local gym and playing a pick up game with boys and girls? we spend all this time trying to institutionalize development. We put fancy names on it and limit access to kids we choose. not on the basis of ability necessarily, but all sorts of other things. Those who are invited thinks its great. Why? becasue they are invited I guess. there is a pride to it.I get it. Those who dont get invited either try to get invited or sulk. Try tog et invited could mean all sorts of things from training harder to parents trying to influence the coach.

Ill take the kid who trains hard and often out of the spotlight all day.

Just my 2c

Anonymous said...

Oh and 1:32 - training 4 days a week with your same team isn't the same in getting add'l training from very good coaches and competing against other high level soccer kids, unless your team is top to bottom with them. Most aren't.

Anonymous said...

1:56 - usually they are the same kids.

Anonymous said...

159 playing indoor games and doing a training session for a random coach over 2 days is a blip on the radar. There is more than enough competition all year round and as far as training goes, thats for you to asses. i dont beleive in the theory you are stating. You can train with players far better than you or worse, its all about how accountable you hold yourself to your own standards.

Anonymous said...

1:59 - agreed. I have seen some kids practice hard against their teammates because they are familiar with them and become invisible or take off plays during a game. Practice isn't always a good indicator of performance, either.

Anonymous said...

155 NT camp maybe. the debate is about PDP, thats not NT camp.

Anonymous said...

200 maybe, but the point is I think you get far more form one than the other.

Anonymous said...

2;07 - and that is it in a nutshell, it is the standards that you hold for yourself. Correct. No excuses, just you and the mirror. As a player, are you doing what you can to make yourself and your team better? That is what separates great from good.

Anonymous said...

214 thats my point all along. We like to dress all this up. PDp. Id2 GDA ECNL, HS , no HS all these thigs are only valuable if you set your own standards and try and exceed them. There are far too many "awards" out there in soccer for very limited achievement. And we wonder why our kids dont seem to push themselves to be great. We are telling them that all the time though our actions. We need to make excellence actually count for something instead of setting the bar low enough for several kids to hop over it. That means standards of play, behavior and accountability.

Wont happen. Everyone wants a trophy, very few want to work.

The Auriemma post game comments are spot on.

Anonymous said...

Amen.
I was listening to parents on my kid's team shout "good job" to many stupid plays this weekend. Stupid. We are U17/U18. We need to stop giving out kudos for sub-par play.

Most parents don't even get it. They don't see the players that are covering for their kid because she has no idea what she is doing. They are too busy saying...great job my little princess. Meanwhile the kids that are killing themselves because little princess should not even be on the field, THEY get the kudos.

Sick of the soccer snowflakes.

Anonymous said...

208.
The national team camp reference was used to say that a significant number of pdp participants had also been recognized by the Ussf as top players by having invited them to national camp. While I believe their selection is often flawed, it is difficult to argue that those kids were at pdp because the pdp selection process is grossly corrupt. So take them out of the questionable pool and look at what's left. There will always be bubble players that you can make an argument should have been selected over another player. That is not corruption at work it's simply human nature to prefer one player type over another.

Having said that, there were some interesting anamolies in the selections. There was some huge variations in player quality. That seemed to reflect over all club strength and depth. Some clubs recognized that depth was limited and didn't send a large number of kids others not so much insight. Some players struggled mightily. Interestingly some of the most lauded defenders really had difficulty with the pace. Shouldn't be surprised since as I reference above the Ussf clearly is in a shambles. Who has any confidence in the intelligence and integrity of the Feds after the u17/20 World Cup shambolic debacle and the Ussf subsequent decisions to elevate these same players and coaches to higher levels as if they had won instead of lost. Further lost playing embarrassing soccer at that.

I simply don't believe the story provided above with no detail of some super stud 8th grader getting "top" offers. Then getting invited to national camp and not getting a pdp invitation. First off the story implies the kid is older because he says she earned a later national camp invitation. 8th grade offers are very rare even now (except for Rutgers and pda) but almost unheard of longer than 4 years ago. Were there any kids left off the recent roster who have been to even a single national team camp? Maybe one or two older kids who were early bloomers and had been to a u14 camp or two. But most likely none of the more recent invitees. So yes I call out that guy as full of it.

Every time a roster like this comes out and someone brings it up there will be haters. Haters of the selection process, haters of program itself, and indeed of the kids. I think if a kids name is showing up publicly on lists of accolades it opens them up to and frankly invites scrutiny. Comes with the territory. These aren't little kids any more.

Anonymous said...

636 i dont really understand parts of your post, but its interesting that you say a significant number. How nany? People seem reluctant to give a number.. I am not aware of a large number of consistent NT invitees in our conference that just held Pdp. Im happy to be proven wrong.

The story told was an anecdote and is 100 pct true. I dont know how rare 8th grade offers are because you would only hear about them if the kid accepted. The point of the story was to contradict a post that suggested PDP invitations were the result of all the coaches getting together and objectively selecting players. Unless things have changed dramatically, its your coach who submits and its pretty rare that another coach is going to object. You scratch my back and all that. Its even rarer that when a coach leaves an obvious candidate off that list, the other coaches will say what about .....

"Every time a roster like this comes out and someone brings it up there will be haters."
Put me in the camp that thinks these things serve very little purpose. Just another training session. My be valuable to some kids in unique circumstances, butt he further away you live , the less point in attending. I dont call that being a hater. if you think its valuable, great. Spcifically for my kids, its not. Too far and no additional benefits over what they currently do.

Anonymous said...

Um so your kid was invited and declined? Do you spend money to take your kids to showcase tournaments?

Last year there were college coaches lining the fields watching the play. This year less so probably because it was inside, but there was a good representation of top level coaches there. It was free exposure, two nice Nike shirts and a pair of shorts more than paid for the gas. The hotel for one night was minimal with points and terrific time was had playing with great kids and receiving terrific coaching from a top D1 coach. What's not to like there?

The top players will be scouted for national ECNL camp also free except travel. Its a resume booster for those who need it. Honestly don't see how it should be condemned as not worthy of a kids time unless they have recently returned from Jordan...

I am aware of, I think, 4 kids who were at that camp who have been capped in the YNT programs. Probably three times that many have been to at least one camp. No I am not going back and checking rosters...There was a drop off though from top to bottom.

I know each coach puts a rank order list in. I don't know how the club allotment is determined. There was indeed a head scratcher on how many Bucks kids were there.

Anonymous said...

Totally off topic but hopefully insightful. This board provides an opportunity to be supportive of soccer parents but serves more to divide us. I hope this post is helpful.

While watching my daughters games this weekend I noticed many coaches (college “Scouts”) coming an going throughout the matches. Some stayed for a half others watched for about 15 minutes and moved on. Most of them congregated on the team side of the field at one of the end lines/corners but while standing there a coach came up next to us, put down his chair and got out his roster sheets and watched the 2nd half of one of the games he coaches a school I was not familiar with and believe my daughter is not interested in attending so I took the opportunity to engage in conversation as I have been listing to what others think the purpose of the coach is at a game. It was very informative. He said that for some games he watches to see if anyone catches his eye, if he is there for a specific player he will watch her but will not only focus on her but take the opportunity to look at the other players as well. Sometimes he knows the coach of one of the teams and is there because of that relationship as well as knowing the style of play. He said he will watch games where there was no player contact as time permits. The purpose of attending is multi-faceted, he was invited by a player (initial contact), a player attended an ID camp and he would like to see them play with their team, or as previously said he wanted to make the best use of his time and truly scouts. Based on why he is there and what he sees he may reach-out to a player with the typical Camp email – not a personal email but the e-mail blast and if the player shows up she gets on his radar. If the player invited him he will wait to see if she follows up and respond (I did not want to press him but in hindsight I should have asked how he would let the player know he was no longer interested). It sounds like the process is two-fold for your player, reach-out to coaches and invite them to games, follow-up after the games and thank the coach for attending (out manager does a good job of capturing who attends). Also, don’t discount the email blasts for ID and camps, if the coaches name was on the list as attending a game, you receive an invite, and you are interested in the program you may want to attend the ID session or camp.

My daughter invited three coaches, one emailed her directly, one asked if she would like to schedule an overnight visit to the school, and the 3rd invited her to their ID clinic.

Anonymous said...

903 correct. if it works for you, great. it depends on your training environment, but they get " terrific coaching from a top D1 coach." 3 days a week. They dont need exposure or Nike T shirts :) As far as the Jordan comment, I dont get it. Training is training and all Im saying is they are very challenged in the environment they are in. PDP provides nothing extra or better. If its worth your time, thats great. I said its not worth it for us. You make your own judgement. I just query the assumption that it is universally great .

I am also in the camp that think travel is excessive, period. There is plenty of training and quality competition in this area. The only reason for an elite player to travel is to help provide a balanced competitive environment for other payers to be evaluated by College coaches. We take the show on the road to Coaches can one stop shop at great cost to parents. Sure there are some ancillary benefits, but those could be achieved in many other ways.

4 kids =/= several to me, but thank you for providing a number. There is no Club allotment and often the closest Clubs provide the ballast for the kids who decline to attend.

I do appreciate your PoV, I just dont share it, but that all good. Have a great season and good luck to you and your kids.

Anonymous said...

PDP has several functions only one of which is training. The others are exposure to national scouts A report is filed with the USSF to be added to the player database after this event. Also the kids are then potentially also identified for the annual national event. We can only discuss what this has meant in the past since with the GDA the significance of these ECNL ID events is clearly in question. there is also exposure to college coaches. This was cheaper than a showcase and provided good opportunity to non committed kids (younger ages) The other function is simply recognition of accomplishment and PDP on a resume is helpful again for the non committed kids.

The Jordan comment was to say that the only kids who usually consider declining to attend are kids who are already well in the YNT system and there fore are also usually committed and dont need the USSF exposure. However, that said, there were several of those in attendance in Pottstown. In case you didn't know the u17 WC took place last fall in Jordan...

Anonymous said...

at the older ages, how many PDP attendees fall into the

well in the YNT system and there fore are also usually committed and dont need the USSF exposure

This is U16/U17 blog right? Im sure some kind of event for younger kids has value. Not usre its a pdp tho. Out of interest, how many USSF scouts were there? How many College coaches were there? What schools? Who files this report to USSF?



Anonymous said...

Like anything else. It has whatever value you want to give it. If you think not worth your/your kid's time, should you receive another invite, decline. Don't take a spot, then. My kid had a great time and experience.

Someone above said playing in a pick up game has more value. Well, this is just that. It's a very high level pick up game without refs. These are some high level, very competitive and very skilled soccer junkie kids. Some are teammates. Some are club mates. And some don't normally play together at all as they are on different teams. But they meet and play, all out, for each other and themselves.

And, the coaches were great and provided good tips and instruction too. To me, it's always good to network and get to know others in the soccer world.

The energy was intense and quite competitive. These kids know each other or of each other. They also get to meet other soccer junkies and become friends. The respect for each other's talent was apparent. It's nice to see that with our young ladies.

Anonymous said...

3:35 - I agree. My daughter attended and always appreciates the opportunity of adding more knowledge and skill to her game. She had a great experience as well. And, I had the opportunity of meeting some very nice parents from other teams.

Anonymous said...

I agree my kid attended. It was hard to tell how many coaches because the indoor venue was set up in a way that you couldn't see up and down the sideline. I saw at least 5 d1 coaches there. This might be a gross underestimation. Of course there was also the Rutgers coach. Last year there were dozens. There is a USSF rep there and he files the report. I have no idea who he was- the guy wearing the crest.

Anonymous said...

335 Can you accept that to some kids it is of limited value? Sounds like you cant. I can totally see why kids would decline.

Anonymous said...

4:03 - of course I can. It's not for everyone and things come up.
It was nice to see kids that were leaving for NT camp there as well as those just coming back. They could have declined, but didn't.
ALL of this is whatever you want to get out of it and that isn't universal; it's player/family specific.

Anonymous said...

I'm not someone in the know so take it for what it's worth.

With regards to PDP, the rumor going around is PF was stripped of running and hosting by ENCL out of spite once the decision was made by the club to go DA. They were also to have more players present but ECNL allocated those spots to clubs within the conferences they deemed "Loyal".

Could be the reason why the selection process looks questionable.

Anonymous said...

Maybe but why wouldn't CFC have had more than 3 or MF more than 5?
You realize these are picks from all the conference ECNL teams U19-U15.

Anonymous said...

Adding to above - and WC only 4?

Anonymous said...

And bucks 7???

Anonymous said...

I heard the same that penn fusion got stripped of the privilege of running it. But they seemed to have a reasonable representation. Bucks way too many and CFC none from 00 is kind of harsh. WC and MF seemed light. Many kids from PDA not invited were better than other teams' best players...

Anonymous said...

Continental FC had 1 1999, 1 2000 and 2 2001 players at the PDP.

Anonymous said...

Okay, I see that on roster. One left due to injury. Forgot to include in my initial count. t/y

Anonymous said...

403. the only kids I have ever known to refuse was a kid who went to Jordan or player who are injured. Does your kid even play in the ECNL? No Top player who has aspirations for a ynt camp or return to camp would refuse the invitation. Many invited are on the ynt radar and get an extra entry into the database by attending. The national ecnl camp was attended by April Heinrichs and from that camp she took several players with the u18s to England shortly thereafter.

I still don't think you even understand what it was. Did anyone refuse to attend NTC training? Refuse to attend the NTC combine? No you are right. I don't understand why someone would not see the value in PDP. My belief is that the only ones who attempt to dimish it's value are those on the outside looking in. Human nature: devalue what you can't have so it isn't as painful to be excluded.

Anonymous said...

1255 Because its so valuable to you, you cannot possibly comprehend that it may not be to someone else. Its the same as the pro vs anti HS argument. you resort to even questioning my comprehension of the soccer landscape and the natural order of things. I did not diminish its vale . I said its not valuable to some kids. If its valuable to you, thats fine. Im glad it works for you.



Anonymous said...

In regards to numbers at PDP and distribution by club. FC Bucks and CFC are about the same level of play so seeing more bucks kids then continental is strnage, not sure if ECNL has an axe to grind with continental. Continental's 00 team will not be spectacular this year either so that may be the reason for no invites. The coach brought up all of the younger players, maybe in the long run it will work but this will be a "Trust The Process" year at least.

Anonymous said...

there really is no conspiracy. The ONLY way to assess that would be to know the original list of invitees. I know , in spite of some, that many players did not choose to attend. So from that point on the whole 60 "best" players thing and the composition becomes moot.

Anonymous said...

Yeah its not valuable to kids in the top .000001% who don't need it because they are getting multiple international caps without it and its not valuable to kids who have no hope of making the national pools.

Any other groups i am missing? Don't know ANY kids with a legitimate shot of inclusion who would ignore an invitation to PDP. Do you? Which group am I missing? Articulate your position more specifically.

Anonymous said...

PDP is the "All League" Equivalent to High School with the added benefit of a training session. ...Mic Drop

Anonymous said...

1033 I think you overstate its importance. A kid with a solid commitment from a good school who has other things to do on the weekend is a clear candidate to decline. It does not have to be more complicated than that. Heck, the kid may not even have a commitment. A kid already practicing with a good club who does not want to devote another weekend to soccer may decline. Not every talented girl is a soccer junkie. The value in their "development: is minimal. National team selection is probably not going to be tilted one way or the other and i can tell you as fact that a dominant player in the league is going to be invited to the national event whether they go to Pdp or not.

Anonymous said...

10:52 - laughable. All league yes, but in ECNL, currently the 1st tier of youth soccer. Now, my mic dropped.
To even remotely compare it to high school where kids play that are not even soccer players let alone top tier, shows your lack of understanding.

Anonymous said...

11:37 - yes, at least a kid or two may have declined as they were already heading to or were packing for NT camp. But at least one packed her bags after the PDP session.

Anonymous said...

And, you are right. A dominant player in the league may be invited if attending PDP or not. But, some players don't play on full squads of dominant players. So, to get them surrounded by mostly high level players and see how they fit in seamlessly is part of the evaluating process too. You realize they just don't look at just skills?

Anonymous said...

101 . You keep referring to Rachel Dorwart. She has been off the NT radar for a while, Im glad she is getting another look. maybe she went to stay sharp for camp. Point is I have no idea, but I do know of several NON NT players who declined. This has nothing to do with NT camp. You seem to think that the only way is NOT valuable is if the kid is an International.

there are kids getting enough training closer to home that dont have any desire to attend because they dont see the value. I personally spoke to a kid who said, I went last year and it was a waste of time. the coach who ram it favored his Clubs players and I got nothing out of it. I believe her and know that some others feel the same way,

its a lot more than a kid or 2. I reckon that of the original say 60 invited and least 20 pct decline.

Anonymous said...

12:54 PM

10:52 here. You so want to prove your worthiness. The point to make was not about the equivalency of High School to ECNL, my point was that it is just another bragging right. Both are lists generated based on bias more than ability and both add a feather to the caps of those that are on the list. There is probably some merit to each but to debate how it impacts an individual player across a mass Blog is laughable. I think most will agree that any player in the ECNL who is 1-11 should be on the list. If the submissions are DOC and coach recommendations that are then reviewed by some panel maybe they are vetted. If there is no review then it is mostly favors to players/families from the coach/DOC. Unless someone definitively knows the process it is all speculation for why they get on the list. Does anyone think these are scouted at the ECNL level and invites with no Club involvement?

Anonymous said...

9:15 - hmmm. Are you hinting that the brain trusts of ECNL wanted the PF/Continental merger to have occurred?

Anonymous said...

In 2016-2017, there will be eleven such programs taking place across the country, with every ECNL Club assigned to one either based upon their conference or their geographic location. The ECNL PDPs will bring together the top 60 players within the conference or geographic region for a weekend of training, competition, and education. Each ECNL PDP will include approximately 60 players: 30 from the 1998/1999 age groups, and 30 from the 2000/2001 age groups.

The above is from the ECNL website. So it does look like nepotism plays a role.

Anonymous said...

1:11 - and maybe that kid thought that about last year, but this year it was run by different coaches (including some from other conferences) and had different structure. It was much more intense.

Anonymous said...

Btw - 60 not invited. They intentionally kept down the numbers. I think it was 45.

Anonymous said...

Lol not going to PDP because a kid has something better to do on the weekend? Sure ... right. Those kids aren't selected. They are the soccer junkies. The only kid I know who said no was packing her bags for Florida. That's understandable. All the other kids were happy to be included. Those just below the line disappointed. Good enough to be invited? You go. You represent yourself and your club and maybe something else comes of it. You think the club doc and coaches are ok with a kid declining because they have something better to do? Lol you don't understand high level club soccer at all. No way your kid is of the level.

Of course there are scouts to watch ID'd kids further and a dominant player who did not attend pdp might be included in the national camp. So what? Does that mean that she shouldn't attend pdp if available -no it doesn't. In fact there are very few players that are so clearly destined for inclusion.

Anonymous said...

1:15 - aren't these not 1-11 per roster, but per Club?

Anonymous said...

129 something better to do could be a different training session, it could be rest, it could be a whole variety of athletic things. You really dont get ti do you? Pdp just is not that important to everyone. If a kid shows up for the ECNL season in top shape an pays well do you really think a Pdp makes any difference at all? Its hilarious that you keep telling me I dont understand soccer. and yet you have no idea who I am. Maybe I just see the path differently to you. Maybe I just dont buy in to what is being sold and encourage my kids to follow their own path and to trust the coaches they believe in?

At no point have I claimed to know more or less than you, just that Pdp is not important to some kids. I stand by that and once again- if its important to you, thats great.

You last statement is just ridiculous. Kids train and play for different reasons. You seemed to be drawing some significance from the Pdp in the context of a National event. All im saying is they are not really linked. Pdp is jsut another training session to some kids and some will go and some wont. Not sure why you are trying to make it into something more.

My kid may not be of the level, but she was invited. So I guess the level is just not that high.

Anonymous said...

123 irrelevant really. the point is the kid was not willing to find out. She declined.. OP keeps suggesting that no one would decline it. ODP. My kids have never wanted to do it. Never done it. Does that mean is bad? Of course not. Pdp is no different really. Its just another representative opportunity to be "seen" If oyu value that , great. If you dont feel the need, more power to you. No idea why the one guy seems to have such a hard time accepting it. Is it because he feels that it somehow cheapens the achievement? Of course it does not .

I bet if you asked a pool of girls if the best players were there, they would say no, not all of them . Several missing. Its really no big deal

Anonymous said...

I'm not the one questioning her or your level. It's whatever she or you want out of it. All of this is. If it wasn't important to her, then it wasn't. Some think good academics in a college pick is important; some don't. It's whatever you/your kid wants out of it.

Anonymous said...

This is from ECNL website, too: "Players are selected for the ECNL PDPs based on their performance in ECNL competitions..." So, it's not just random selection. It's based on performance in competition.

Oh, and yes, there is input from others:
ECNL scouts are assigned to observe and analyze ECNL games at each ECNL National Showcase Event. A standardized evaluation program has been established by the ECNL for these scouts whereby identified players will be evaluated on a variety of technical, tactical, physical, and psychological characteristics based upon their performances. ECNL scouts include coaches from member clubs of the ECNL, independent coaches, coaches with experience with US Soccer Youth National Teams, and coaches from top Division I, II, and III colleges.

Anonymous said...

157 ..Firstly, I know several kids who declined. Scondly i responded to 129 who said

Lol you don't understand high level club soccer at all. No way your kid is of the level.

Fairly clear no ?

Anonymous said...

215 If you believe that becasue it written , then I cant help you.

Anonymous said...

2:41 - didn't realize a blog wasn't open for discussion. So, I was responding to you. Some things not important to you or your kid that are to others. That's it. And that is pretty clear, right?

Anonymous said...

157 go read 129 again . OP it basically saying that no elite player should decline a Pdp invite. I say why not? I believe that there are many ways to approach things and most are valid. 129s view is not close to reality.

Anonymous said...

2:42 - I don't think it's gospel, no. But, I do think that guidelines are used.

Anonymous said...

of course you can respond. Why not say that to 129. He seems to think everyone has to do it his way and value the PDP like he does. Your opening remark about questioning levels seems irrelevant in that that it was not addressed to you . Only one person here thinks there is only one route and that attending Pdp is of vital importance to a soccer player. Not me.

Anonymous said...

I do as well. Some kids may be rewarded for showing up and playing and some kids aren't. And, maybe that is what other coaches have seen as well with some of the list. You step onto the field, you play. You take off plays, it gets noticed.

Anonymous said...

Because you put it out there that she was invited and declined. And you noted that her level may not be that high. It doesn't matter. What matters is that she was invited and decided it wasn't important. Sorry to point out the obvious.

Btw - A blog is not person specific. It's an open forum. And, what if I happen to agree with that person? I know. Mindblowing huh?

Anonymous said...

My kid's DOC/coaches would be very angry if a kid declined PDP participation for anything other than injury or National camp. They want the club well represented. They also want the top kids recognized for potential advancement. Your kid (and probably you) would have to answer to him if your kid decided to take the day off to do something she would rather do because she was not a "soccer junkie". You could also forget another ID event invitation. You can say well that's ridiculous we would leave the club then. he would say only serious soccer players belong in the top tier.

Anonymous said...

305 .. you obviously missed the point. Op keeps stating that a. the kid is not serious player and cannot be good. I merely pointed out that she was invited so the standard cannot be that high. I guess the sarcasm was lost on you.

yes its open, but usually responding directly to someone is just that, Its a response. If you read all of it, HE called my child abilty in to question.simply becasue she had other soccer real;ted activities she considered more pressing. His assumptions are just that. I quite happy and supportive of her decision,.

318 .. if you think going to a pdp or not defines a serious player, then fair enough. We pay the club, they dont pay us. If they want to pay us for representing the club, then they can dictate what people do or dont attend. ID invitations will not define a player. Ability and work rate will. If she never gets invited again, so be it. A serious soccer player is not defined by pdps and id events.she will be defined by what she does on the field and in practice with her teammates

What would you say if a kid had 3 big tests at school a decided she could not spare the time ? is that ok ?

Anonymous said...

Because your kid is the only one that had several tests that attended, right? Of course that is important, too.

I'm not the OP, but my kid had a thesis paper and studying for her several AP class tests as well. Still attended, still got in her paper and still took her tests. All of this is important to her and me.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, because she had several tests and decided not to attend. Just pointing out that other kids have the same stresses and juggling and happened to fit in all of it.

Anonymous said...

I think this subject has been beaten enough. Some kids/parents value things like PDP and some don't. Some kids are better at juggling all of their commitments and some aren't. Different views that's all. And, guess what? The world will still turn.

Anonymous said...

That's what the GDA is for. Group the top soccer junkie kids together. Unfortunately they made it too big. It won't be selective enough to provide clearly the top competition. Although it may be better than it was in some areas. I am hearing most of the top players where there are both da and ecnl going da but much of the "depth" deciding like the above guy that it isn't worth the time and sacrifice. By the way I personally don't believe the guy who says his kid turned down the pdp invitation because she had something better to do.

Anonymous said...

It was fine as far as grouping. There were 45 kids, total for 4 teams. Most teams had 11 kids and 1 had 12. Unlike the prior years, they intentionally didn't have bigger numbers like 60.

Anonymous said...

While I agree that this is what GDA is about, I don't understand some of your post.
What do you mean some are both da and ecnl? You know DA teams have not been picked yet, right?
And, if these, many of these, are the kids that will be invited to participate in the GDA, which I agree, then how was the depth missing? Were there a few bubble kids? Sure. But, overall, the top kids there deserved it and showed it.

Anonymous said...

6:52, i think 6:01 was referring to the GDA being too large overall as far as club inclusion. The rest of that post, I am lost. But, I don't think he/she meant PDP was too large. But maybe he/she did.

Anonymous said...

1) Girls Da too many clubs aka "too big" not selective enough
2) DA intended for soccer junkie types willing to sacrifice time and other activities including social for soccer at the highest level and greatest advancement opportunities
3) in clubs with both da and ecnl like pda the top kids are choosing the da but the kids on the current ecnl rosters the "depth" players like 9-15 are worried about the sacrifice and maybe not experiencing the advantages because they aren't playing much. On the fence. Similarly might be some flight from da clubs of these depth players to ecnl where they can play school ball, have a social life and still play at a good level in the exnl. Match fit Bethesda and continental for example might pick up some solid but not top tier players to add to their depth.

Anonymous said...

What is the "database" that some spoke about? And, who has access to it? Is it something club DOC's can see or just college coaches or just USSF? Thank you!

Anonymous said...

432 i dont get your point at all. Its not relevant whether she ws the only one or not is it. The only point is that she thinks that was more relevant to HER than a PDP. The fact that your didn't is great. I think the real point is, she does not see a PDP as being important to her soccer development. Every player is different and all im telling you is that feeling is not isolated.

Anonymous said...

930

1. they cant be selective and fill the teams. There are not enough high level players. PDP is a great example. you have 45 kids form the entire conference across how many teams ? 6 ? Ans there are players there who from a talent level, do not belong. And yet we a re goingg to supposrt what 4 DA teams?

2. What advancement? A real soccer junkie is already doing that. All the GDA is doing is making their job of scouting easier and getting parents to pay for it as usual. Its effectively the ECNL for the USSF. the same way that the ECNL is the scouting network for the NCAA . the only material difference between ECNL and GDA will be the players and where they choose to play. Thats why the ECNL media blitz and Club acquisition has become so aggressive.

Colleges are still going to recruit the best players no matter where they play and in spite of the way its run, the USSF is not a Club or College. It does not give you a 4 yr commitment. Its not particularly well run and poor performance is not met with change. they dont really care much about the individual. The carrot of perhaps being on the NT Youth radar is prett weak imo. IF a player has the talent , then by the time they get to College, no one care if they played for YNTs or not. If the player is performing at a high level, they stand the same chance of seelction. GDA or no GDA

3. there is an assumption here that the best players will do GDA. maybe. but here is a hypothetical. what happens if THE best player on a club decides to do ECNL? That wuill ahve a big impact.

Reality is the GDA is a long term investment in players, but to me its too late. the GDA should be aimed at the younger ages as well. 14 is getting too late to make a real difference.

Anonymous said...

PLEASE STOP WITH THE PDP DISCUSSION!!!!!
We get it...there is more than one opinion about it!!!!

Anonymous said...

Exactly!!!
My daughter had an invite but couldn't go. She had a bday party to attend.

Anonymous said...

916 then add to the board and suggest a topic.

828
1 The best 45 kids were not there and not because some decided to go to a birthday part. Many teams had kids who failed to earn an invitation that are better than those that did. Not because of politics but because apparently they strive to balance the invitations among the teams. In this age group for example: lets say for the sake of argument that there were 12 00s invited to PDP (I honestly don't know how many there were). They would have had a much stronger group of 00s if they had simply invited the top 6 PDA kids, top 3 WC kids and top 2 PF and MF kids. Maybe would have had a stronger group if all 12 were PDA kids! The PDA team is a collection of talent and will make a very strong GDA at Sky Blue. No idea whats up with Cedar stars. WC will be great with a terrific base, great coach and in combination with top players filtering in from other clubs. Albertson don't know. Penn Fusion will be respectable if they just stay the same and maybe really good if the top players from Strikers and CFC come out. Probably unlikely except maybe a few juniors.
2 Advancement opportunities we the golden ring is an invitation to YNT camps and possible caps. Second top level D1 school with real money. Both of those will have the nod to GDA. A real soccer junkie may get similar training playing with boys, but they will need to have the credibility and eyes on them. The USSF is in a war with the ECNL maybe that a kid has a better chance playing USYSA and ODP to be seen for camps if the USSF digs in. My kid has specifically been told by two top 25 coaches that they cannot adequately evaluate players unless they are playing against top competition.

If the ECNL doesn't remain strong it may not provide the competition that the top coaches seek. That said it will always be ok for the next tier and downward. It is not true that the coaches will find the "best" players no matter where they play and against whom. Point of fact is they can't know this kid scoring goals all over the place against low level competition will do the same against ACC or Big 10 defenses. They say that themselves. How often do you see an all state player with tons of goals remain silent in the ECNL? I can name several.

Witness the boys side. While the DA may not immediately tip the scales, it definitely will over time. I have an older boy and saw it all happen.

3) Yes for the next couple of years mid major girls will have a tough time choosing choosing DA over high school and many will not. However, the top girls on the rosters who have been to camps and aspire to remain in the running or to return playing DA is a no brainer. Similarly the top college coaches are encouraging their commits to play at the highest level so as to be best ready to hit the ground running. Yup next year may not be clear what the highest level is, but in the future no confusion will exist. For some of us with younger kids or who are involved in coaching etc, the future is relevant.

Anonymous said...

Curioous how many GDA clubs will allow seniors to play high school ball and join team after 2 months...
This article kept the door open for this to happen...
http://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/about-face-heinrichs-says-girls-development-academy-will-allow-high-school-play/

Any valid answers appreciated...not rumors

Anonymous said...

1153

1.and 2 there is now way we have enough YNT level talent in the NE to fill the number of teams. I dont think even PDA does. use PDA 00s as an example. You have 4 or 5 kids on that team with YNT experience ? Most recent being a GK. The rest have not been in camps for a little while. It a safe assumption to say they have the talent, so basically in last 2 years of PDA training, why are they not back in YNTs on a consistent basis? And is changing the label to GDA going to change that.?

I dont know what the reason is, could be many many things, but you get the point. I dont see GDA making any real difference to anyone at PDA or any other big well run ECNL club. These clubs already offer a path to any school out hter if good enough.
Soccer is a small world so I sand by my comment. If good enough , the Club and the coaches provide that credibility. IF DoC is vouching for said players talent, then no issue.

This competition theory .let me ask you a question. If player A plays for a loaded team in a weak conference. Is that good competition? is it easier to play for PDA or Stars ? Should I be discounting those player performances and elevating others basdfd on your theory? Your analog is bad. We could have a entire section devoted to HS soccer and things like All state and what it may or may not mean. All these kids are on teams and the relative strengths are very different. Boys DA is a bad comparison because there was no boys ECNL.

Its a coaches job to project talent. he gets paid to do that. Equally they dont know if the kid scoring vs ECNL teams will do the same in ACC or Big10. see above.. Eg Striker 2 on a team that had a dominant ST1 who is the focus of the other team. ST 2 gets a bunch of goals , doe sthat translat if asked to be ST1 on a loweer level ACC or Big !) team who are worse than most of the teams in conference ? Point is we dont know and nor do they.

3. I dont know what a mid major girl is. there is no real correlation between soccer ability and choice of college. Again, if said kids have gotten to that level without the GDA, then why do they suddenly need it? I dont dispute that is relevant to younger kids, but my comments are based on a 16/17 blog.

Anonymous said...

1246 its case by case. It depends on the roster when HS ends. I think it will be a very tough one, because you have to consider the impact on the kids who gave it up. Like everything in these Clubs, im sure it will come down to the ability of the player in question.

Anonymous said...

Sorry fact: highest level college coaches are determining which competition they deem valid for analysis and attend events and games accordingly. You can say baloney or whatever, but some may appreciate the information so I reiterate. If your child aspires to play at the highest level in college she must play in events frequented by these colleges and against competition stiff enough to provide them an adequate barometer of her play.
I was indeed speaking more globally and long term. I am involved in coaching and have younger kids. Some others may too, on this blog and may find the comments useful. There is no generic soccer landscape category so I am posting here. Skip onward if you don't wish to consider what I say.

College coaches do indeed have some relationships with certain club coaches and in fact some are themselves club coaches. But their livelyhood is on the line and they make scholarship decisions based on their own eyes against adequate competition. Again you can argue all you want, but just ask a top 25 school coach and you will hear the same. They certainly have a higher chance of carrying forward their scoring to the ACC, SEC or the big 10 if they are doing so in the ECNL rather than EDP/NPL/Region1 league and the coaches are well aware of that.

Top Players are going to power 5s next tiers mid majors, with a few exceptions as there are with any rule.
Top Players this age group:
Virginia, Duke, South Carolina, Rutgers, Northwestern, Miami, Georgia, Virginia Tech, Syracuse (and others I am sure I forget) with the exception being Ivy's and Georgetown for obvious reasons they are in a desirable category of their own.

Also sometimes exception is someone who wants all of college paid for. Full scholarships are well know for top players in less successful P5s, but are much more common for top players and maybe slightly lesser players at most midmajors. Top Players go to top schools in top conferences. Is what it is. Not intuitive to you?

The GDA in this age group will be variable. The top players going to the above schools will certainly play in it. The next tier down will be variable in their decisions partially based on their perception of their likely playtime in the no re entry environment.

Anonymous said...

Im bnot sure I understand your point at all.. I think the majority of kids i know use soccer to go to the best academic opportunity that can that fits them and not the school that plays the best soccer.


is that a list of the schools the players you consider to be top are attending? if so I dont see the relevance. They did all that without the GDA right? So my point is that good enough competition was created in an environment with HS soccer, a team per age group and 2/3 practices a week.

if you argument is that competition will be watered down, I agree. it will be watered down in BOTH GDA and ECNL.

When you say stiff enough, I believe that the ECNL will certainly be that for a while. its better to say they want to see players play above a certain level. It does not have to be the highest level. I think that the best COllege coaches reach out to DoCs and respected coaches to ask about players they are about to make big commitments to. They ask questions.

GDA annexing essentially the ECNL landscape , re branding it and calling it something different is a bit disingenuous. Essentially they are competing for exactly the same players.


Anonymous said...

Is the 2000 group the best we have seen in a long time. 3 kids in Full NT camps in the space of 2 months. Incredible.

Anonymous said...

Who said anything about needing the GDA to accomplish college soccer scholarships at top schools? The fact is that it will be here next year and change the landscape blogs like this provide an avenue for discussion.
Dont disagree that ECNL will stay relevant especially in areas without GDA. I also think it will slowly decline to reach a new status quo. SO we are in agreement on the short term. I am trying to spark discussion on the long term landscape. I believe the GDA should have been half as big as they put forward and really tried to consolidate talent in a more meaningful way.

Anonymous said...

11:53 - you are clueless. Do you even have a kid that plays or do you just creep the soccer blogs pretending to be all knowing? Here's a tip if you are good, pick the winners at Vegas.

Anonymous said...

3:30 - sounds like you are fishing. 1999's have been pretty well represented for a bit, too and 1998's. As far as 2000's based on what I saw at PDP, some may return and others may join and/replace them.

Anonymous said...

2:41 - college coaches also ask current players and those already recruited that they consider a top get for intel as well.

Anonymous said...

843 what did you see at PDP?

Anonymous said...

330

Still - just as often you will see a WNT player come from the collegiate ranks after a fine career - rather than up through the youth system

There will be a nice mix of early and late bloomers moving forward.

Wouldnt you agree?

Anonymous said...

Name WNT players who were not involved in the youth system. Alex Morgan was on the u20s

Anonymous said...

I think they are saying the younger ages (U14-U19). A Morgan was called up in college as have some others have been.

Anonymous said...

It's over.
http://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19048282/women-final-four-mississippi-state-bulldogs-stand-connecticut-huskies-epic-upset

Anonymous said...

Curious but which others have gotten contracts with the full team who were not in the youth programs before u20?

Anonymous said...

Parents.
To clarify :
PDP recommendations are up to the clubs DOC. They get a preadsheet and send back the names.
The ecnl director then picks who and how many from that particular club.
AND YES some, many kids decline due : to rest, already committed,injury, no need to attend bla bla bla

Anonymous said...

8:42 - any reason why you are continuing with this subject? It has been put to sleep already. Nite nite....get it.

Anonymous said...

Hahaha...yep. Empty barrels make the most noise.

Anonymous said...

1128/1129 Topic that provoked discussion and you close it down. What is th point of a forum then? Why dont you list the things we are allowed to talk about to save us all time.

Thanks

Anonymous said...

It provoked a topic,but has been over done. Most moved on or maybe you didn't read that far. Topic now is try-outs from what I am reading.

Anonymous said...

Not trying to sound glib, but let's move past the PDP. Now, what to do? What are kids doing at this age? Had a clear path, but not sure. Parental influence taking over it seems and it's not good.

Anonymous said...

958 I read some twitter talk on Pulisic. all sorts of people debating who gets credit for him. A commentator i respect said, his parents. I agree. parent influence is a good thing. The clear path has never changed. The path to improvement has always been the same. ECNL.GDA etc have never changed it. You work hard, you surround yourself with good people.

Too many people look outside for the answer. For some magic dust. Does not exist.

Anonymous said...

Maybe you are not understanding. Parental influence taking over team as far as who gets to play and what positions. Never good. That's not magic dust. That's plain old dirt.

Anonymous said...

Agree with OP, can't surround yourself with good people if they are the ones considering moving as a result. Perfume on a turd is still a turd.

Anonymous said...

Lol this a forum and any topic that provokes discussion is good. 928 in answer to your question: I saw one kid just tear it up. Guess which club?

Anonymous said...

just sounds like they are not good people. Move.

Anonymous said...

135 then just say that. Dont know your club, but if your coaching staff allow parents to dictate terms, then you made a mistake.

Anonymous said...

The higher level your kid plays the less parental influence you will encounter. Regarding Pulisic. I also heard that interview with Jim Curtain. I also know why he said what he said.

Both Christians parents are soccer players. Arguably his mother was the better player. His father went on the play in the professional indoor league when it was the top level in the USA. Then coached at the collegiate level (Lebanon valley college) professionally with I think the Michigan indoor team and then back to Pa Ckassics. At classics he always coached Christians teams as Klein coaches his son and others have always done. There is some controversy over whether that is a smart thing, but for Christian it definitely was. As a late bloomer he needed a style that fit his game to maximally develop. He wasn't going to win 50-50s launched forward by a direct team. He wasn't going to win 50-50 balls played to him through errant passes. He needed a technical team around him to shine maximally and frankly to keep him healthy. His dads teams were always very technically focused. They tended to be smaller than average too. They played a beautiful brand of soccer.

Then when he outgrew them and the best the USA had to offer, they knew when to put his development into the hands of others best able to guide his development. Because his grandfather was Croatian he was granted a European passport which allowed him to circumvent the FIFA rules on child professional contracts and went to Dortmaund. His father and mother made what I am sure was a clear but difficult decision to split the family and he went to Germany with Christian while his mother and sister stayed in the USA.

They also trained Christian themselves for many hours even as a tiny little boy. They probably put countless hours into him. Teaching him skills, the game and the joy of soccer. They didn't interfere in his youth soccer developmental experience, they piloted it. As a result we have our first real American #10

Anonymous said...

648

What is so hard to understand is how a country this large can produce so little. I talk about kids enjoying the game, and parents surrounding them with good people all the time. People laugh at that. The stock response is, your kid must be bad, i guess your team loses , blah blah. In the USA we associate good people with those that win. We rarely let the kids enjoy the game. its l showcases, tournaments, organized leagues and yelling from the sidelines.

So I guess its really not that surprising.

Anonymous said...

Only one measure is ever used....results, results, results.
Same reason the forwards and strikers always get nod...

Anonymous said...

My daughter's last team crashed an burned based on Parental influence. 3 girls came in from the same club, unfourtunately they brought their parents with them. It was a disastouros season for everyone else and even with the parental influence the end game they were hoping for did not pan out. My perspective. They came in claiming that their daughters were being scouted by quality college coaches and they would bring those looks for the other players. At the end of the day when the commitments came out none of the 3 commited to their top schools, actually players from their old team grabbed the coveted spots,the team itself dropped in standings and performance from the previous year, and this year for the three resulting teams (U17, U18 and composite) it has been a rough start.

Anonymous said...

815 dont understand how your comment is related to the 648 post

Anonymous said...

945 the parental ifluence is only a problem when a team/club has weak leadership
So what's up with this composite stuff. Has it turned into the ECNL B team? has it been worthwhile? Seems to me that the 00 kids from last year's 99/00 teams are benefitting from the restructure with extra looks coming from coaches drawn to the younger 2019 00s while the older 99s were screwed. The older 00s benefit from training/playing "up" every day. The 2019 00s seem to be impacting rosters significantly.

Anonymous said...

1127 I dont understand this whole "looks" thing. A good player will get attention. Relying on other player being good is to miss the pint. I cant help but feel that so much of girls soccer in the US is driven by the scholarship opportunities and not the game itself. Its another reason for the parent involvement. Parents struggle to exert influence when ability makes things clear, but so little real time is focused on getting better that so many kids are equivalent.

This whole game seems to be about finding ways to differentiate average players form each other as opposed to developing great ones.

Anonymous said...

11:27 - not on our team. We have a couple great 00's and then a few good ones, but not enough. The soccer iq is just not there. Some wonder why they are even on the team as they should be on the next level down.

These kids have no idea how to play their positions, but due to parental influence as discussed above, they get playing time. Some get a lot over much better and talented kids. So, when the coach doesn't send out the correct line up or continuously changes it so they can get NO chemistry, what can you do? The better kids are frustrated with the constant changes.

It's like watching the She Believes Cup. Some good players on the bench instead of on the field and/or in crazy positions. What a train wreck.

And believe it or not we are still a decent team because the better players bail out the coach. Just think how good they would be if their own coach didn't coach against them and actually tried to help them. Oh wait, isn't that what MOST clubs do? Guess ours didn't get that memo.

Anonymous said...

A couple of great younger/2019 00's and then a few good ones, but not enough - is what was omitted from above.

Anonymous said...

1256 do the results matter to you?

Anonymous said...

Saw your post. We have the same issue. I wonder if it is because of the birth year thing. Most of the younger 00's don't seem to have a grasp on what is expected of them. Somebody should scream to them, nutmegging at U15 works. At this level, you will most likely loose possession if that is your go to. Learn to dribble or actually pass the ball around the girl; create a lane. And, our coach is blind to this too. Although we do have same line ups so they have consistency. We took care of this in practice or early on not game time.

Anonymous said...

1:06 - Of course results matter. I don't care about wins/losses if the product is good. But, when the product isn't good. That is a problem. And, surely you get that the results matter to club and the kids.

Anonymous said...

111 So how do you make the product good? everyone pays the same fees. You need say 17 on a team. You dont have access to every player, so how do you make the product good and respect everyone on a Club?

Its actually pretty hard to do.

Results probably matter to the Club, Im not sure they matter to that many kids judging by the effort level in many games I see. Sure, kids want to win, but I dont see that many act that way consistently from game to game.

Anonymous said...

108 What is expected of them? is there any real value in the system we have created to being a team player? most games are a series of individual auditions in a team concept. Playing the game in a simple efficient manner is not celebrated. Doing a few flashy things is.

Ultimately you will produce what you incentivize

Anonymous said...

I think results matter to the competitive kids. They are the ones that play the whole game and I don't mean don't get a break (as some don't), but I mean every second they are in the game; they are IN the game. They are connected. They are breaking it down and intently playing not taking off plays. For those kids, yes results matter. Good games matter. Good play; good team play matters. And, good coaching decisions do as well.

Anonymous said...

I have also seen "legacy Players" along with the Parental influence paradigm. Coaches that come to a new team or moved up with the age change seem to favor their players over DOC choices. One team at our club took mostly the younger '00 players for the top team and sent the older players down. The coach moved up with the players. The older ones that stayed around are now dealing with a lower level of play and less numbers and quality all around. For some it is good as now the girls are on teams with only 16 players, but the quality from top to bottom is not what it once was. I can almost see the DOC stepping in and moving NPL players up to the ECNL squad. This actually happened last year when tryout results came out before the end of the season and some of the older players just left when the rosters were released.

Anonymous said...

I hear ya. I actually think some of the lack of consistency in line ups has cost some of our girls good looks and opportunities. They are covering for lesser talent. So maybe they are out of position or doing more at times because they are playing two positions.

Anonymous said...

1:30 good players celebrate the other good solid players. I think Tobin Heath is flashy and she is my favorite player. But, I also think she knows when she can be flashy and when she needs to just be solid. A few flicks not bad and keeps other team guessing. But, too many, then they figure it out. Solid play is what the good players and coaches celebrate.

Anonymous said...

How about when it becomes quite obvious that the coach only cares about the offense?

Anonymous said...

1:32 - wow. that sounds like a hot mess. Hope it all works out.

Anonymous said...

1:50 - oh you may be on my kid's team. :)

Anonymous said...

point is you dont hand pick the kids. you dont pick kids that complement each other. you are not really trying to build a team. All the stuff that is being brought up here would be fine if this was pro sports, but its not. Some kids care, some dont. Some are talented, some less so.

These teams are as much products of circumstance as anything else. You play as well as you can when in the game and thats that.

I lot of what i read here sounds like parents who want to be more involved.

Anonymous said...

130 but they dont have any real control over the other kids. What is a good coaching decision ? benching kids, playing others the whole game? Hiding a weaker kid for 20mins? man marking the oppositions best player? Seriously, what is the coaches responsibility on game day and to whom? remember on most clubs, everyone is paying the same.

Anonymous said...

2:07 Yes, and when some kids don't care, you show them the bench. Or, you pull up other kids from the younger team that would looove to show their stuff or learn and have an opportunity.
Do I want to be involved? No. I have done my time in a coaching capacity; without pay.
Maybe you are one of the boosters that gets input as to where you kid plays and how much. Maybe you are one of the ones I am calling out.

Anonymous said...

2:12 - not sure where your kids play, but we were told that playing time would be earned. From what i see, it's not.

Anonymous said...

How about hiding weaker players in the top of the game if you are giving them playing time? Gives the rest of the team a chance to react to their poor decisions.

Anonymous said...

2:12 Right on bro!
My daughter's coaches have been saying this since U14...BS

Anonymous said...

2:12 - a coaches' responsibility on game day is to his/her team and the club. And that means competitive product. And that means sitting kids that don't want to be part of that.

Anonymous said...

2:12 - you are talking about hiding kids; I am talking about kids on the field hiding themselves. Intentionally, not being available for the ball. Not wanting to be part of the play and ducking behind kids. How does that player benefit the team? They would benefit the team more by being on the bench.

Anonymous said...

Agreed. If at this age, you don't want the ball, you are in the wrong sport. Might want to try stage crew.

Anonymous said...

2:07 - what do you mean you don't hand pick kids??? What exactly are try-outs? The are choices by those in the know that these kids will be successful. Right? By putting them in the best position to be successful, individually and as a team.

Anonymous said...

24e How many clubs do you think get 30 kids coming to tryouts who ALL have the desire and ability to play at the l,evel? Do you think very team has the luxury of a game day squad of players who ALL want to be there? Do you think some of these kids are there because parents wnat them to be? or becasue friends are there?

Do you also realize that on every team there is probably a stand out player? How do you think she feels about playing with some of the weaker ones? Does she encourage them and accept that they may not be at her level? Is that ok ? Should she berate them and tell the coach to bench them?

None of this is easy. Almost all of it involves a compromise and not pleasing everyone. All families pay the same so maybe you should go tot he parents of the kids concerned and tell them that they should quit for the good of the team. Everything you describe is a product of the way the sport is treated in the USA. its diluted, full of average players who dont really want to be there and clubs making money. Talent is in very short supply and if you see it, its beyond obvious.

Your premise that

The are choices by those in the know that these kids will be successful. Right? By putting them in the best position to be successful, individually and as a team.


is naive. Many of the choices are financial or political.

the GDA is going to be no different. the complaining i read now about differing levels of talent and commitment are only going to get louder when you are force to start weaker players and give them games under the GDA umbrella.

Everything most of you are describing is the reality of youth soccer on the girls side. You really dont have to be dedicated OR particularly good to play on teams in the so called elite level of the sport. Your parents just have to want to keep paying.

Anonymous said...

3:00 Kids, even the stand outs, have bad games. I'm not talking about a bad game or two. I'm talking about kids dialing it in a lot. I am talking about coaches allowing it. I have benched my own kid when I saw she was dialing it in. So, I expect the same accountability as does she.

And, being encouraging is part of being a good teammate, but when you are just continuing to say the same thing to the same kids, it's becomes discouraging. And, yes, I know that is how the coach feels. But the player, unlike the coach, doesn't pick the line ups. The coach can make a kid sit out a game or a half and think about it. How many times have injured kids come back with more fire than before? Because they saw the sport they loved almost taken from them. Riding the pine can have the same effect.

Anonymous said...

321 im trying to fully understand the impact this has on your child? to me its a life lesson. Going to face many situations where you feel the effort is not equal. Also situations where you carry more or less of the load. We all know its not fair out there.

i would just use this as teaching material.

Anonymous said...

It's expensive learning material for both of us. And, if the lesson is hey, you don't have to work hard and still get the benefits of those that do, then I don't want her to learn that lesson at all.

Anonymous said...

6:48 - nice story about PAC kid. Name one high level player that doesn't prefer good, technical, intelligent players around him/her.

Anonymous said...

337 I dont get your point at all. The kids that you say are not playing hard are not getting the benefit are they. They are just wasting their parents money.

With respect, it sound like you resent these kids being on the team at all. There are always going to b better and worse players. More committed and less. You cannot allow them to be a distraction to your improvement.

Anonymous said...

Not the OP but yes, I am not happy when kids with less talent were picked over other kids. And, those lesser talented kids are not improving.
And, agree, if the results don't happen, then the coach will be to blame or will need to lower his/her overall expectations because he/she didn't develop the talent. Hopefully, the club will hold him/her accountable. I am sure the parents will.

Anonymous said...

Now not sure how it works. Say you have high level kids on field & in net, do the scouts see that the higher level kids are playing with lesser talent or do they just assume that certain clubs/teams would not pick kids with lesser talent or soccer iq?

Then I can see how this would negatively impact the high level kids/solid players/work horses, if part of their game plan has to always be looking to cover several spots for lesser talented or knowledgable teammates. It's like they are playing down players already or worse that their teammates play benefits the other team.

Anonymous said...

I resent kids being given roster spots/playing time they don't deserve over kids that do. Is all of soccer like this? Is that what you are saying?

Anonymous said...

Yep, expensive it is. Just think about the nice cars we could have paid for, in cash, but for club soccer.

Anonymous said...

1:32 - that is what is crazy about try-outs? They take place and results come out before end of season play. Don't many kids leave if not on the rosters?
Is this unique to soccer? I don't know any other sport that does this while the critical parts of the sport are still being played out. Seems silly.

Anonymous said...

3:27 - why would you ask how does that affect that poster's kid? Have you played team sports? A team relies on each other; trusts each other; has the same goals; pulls for each other; helps not harms each other.

When kids stop playing and still see the field, it's no longer a team. Once teammates stop trusting each other and being accountable to each other, the team falls apart on and off the field.

Anonymous said...

Crack me up
All you guys (maybe even moms) thinking you are talent identifiers. Especially because you are talking about your kids not showing as well because they are tied down by all these lesser kids on the filed. Too funny. Translation to me: Your kid isn't very good so you conclude that their failure to be recognized as the superior players they are must be these other sucky kids on the field and the lousy coach who can't put out the right line up to best showcase my superstar. If the kids and coach were better then all the coaches on the sidelines would appreciate her superior qualities and she would be inundated with top 20 offers... LOL

My guess is the other kids are better than yours.

The best player on my kids 00 team is a 2019
next several 2018 . bottom 2 2018. Oh and there are a couple 2001 who would be in the top 5 of the 2000

Anonymous said...

Not at all. Btw - my kid has had top 20 offers and is verbally committed. So, not worried about her at all but those on her team that are really really good, but getting lost in the lack of others play having to cover their spots.

Anonymous said...

Oh sorry, top 30. My bad.

Anonymous said...

I hear ya. I have been next to coaches when they just set up their chair and see a kid who is really really good, but just got burned because the entire time before that, she was covering two positions. And, I have watched him/her shake her head; pick up their chair and move on. So, yeah, that's a problem, if that is where the kid wants to go and I realize they don't just come to one game. However, if this is what they see when they do come because she is constantly covering for others, well how is that fair to her...several hers.

Anonymous said...

6:42 - I agree that good kids show no matter what.
However, you don't think that kids that are taking spots should be playing and I don't mean just being on the field. I mean actually connected to the game?
And, that the coach should be holding them accountable if they don't? These are U16+. I think they can handle being called out for not showing up. I can't imagine a college coach letting that slide. Why not correct it now?

Anonymous said...

642. Is it normal that to ask a question, you have to attempt to insult the poster? The reality is very few of these Club teams are run like teams. Yes, its great to live in a world where you bench the weaker players and the strong ones go 90 mins, but that is not todays reality. Mummy and Daddy pay to make sure that Jane is allowed to play whether Jane puts in 100 pct effort or not. If that offends you, then you ave not been paying attention to todays society.

In todays reality, kids are out there playing for themselves just as often a kids are out there not trying as hard as they could. This me first, my commit, Im the star mentality is just as corrosive, but the genie cannot be put back in the bottle.

So give your kid the best took you can to deal with the situation or leave, but it is pointless whining about it. Its todays reality. Watered down teams, and pay to play leads to exactly what you are complaining about.

By the way, calling out other kids is hardly the way for YOU the parent to go. Surely its better to have your child lead that effort, not you. Especially as we discuss parent involvement

Anonymous said...

645/647 Really? so now we are comparing offers? Lol. And playing the white knight who cares about the other kids? Genuine or not, its part of how its done. The days of the team and singing kumbaya ended around u12/u13.

Its mostly everyman for himself no matter what they say to your face. Look at it this way, if the kids are that bad, then its less competition for those coveted College spots.

If your kid plays her tail off and does what she can, I really dont see the issue unless winning the games is whats important to you. If it is, go play for PDA or some other big club

Anonymous said...

8:21 - Not one kid identified. I am saying the kids are old enough to be accountable to their team. Obviously you didn't play high level sports. Yep, the tapes don't lie and you get called out. Makes you remember that you don't play for yourself; you play for your team and your club.

And, 8:38 - not comparing offers at all. You questioned. And yes, there are white knight's out there still. And my kid happens to be one as well. We go to bat for others. That is what we do; that is how I was taught and so then was she. Sadly, this should be the norm and not the exception.

Anonymous said...

8:21 - agreed re no accountability; very few want to play for others; look at me mentality prevails, but the parental part that was being discussed it seems is parental interference or influence re playing time or position. That's not cool. Let the coach make those decisions based on what he or she sees.

Anonymous said...

4/1 @5:41 - Saw your post and thought there were others. Immediately thought of Christen Press and confirmed. Christen Press didn't get a call up to YNT's in HS according to her USWNT info.

https://www.ussoccer.com/players/2014/03/15/02/36/christen-press#tab-1

Point is that it happens. Rare but does happen.

Anonymous said...

4/3 @ 9:45 - rough story. Just wondering, are those girls and their influential parents still with your team or did you or they move? Seems like most of us have had a taste of this one way or another.
Hopefully that is one thing that will stop with new changes in leagues.

Anonymous said...

April 4, 2017 at 12:41 AM

With the age change the girls were split between 4 teams so the problem went away somewhat but the damage was done. Even to themselves. The funny thing was the College teams that they thought were going to make offers never did and the influential parents wound up doing a bit of back peddaling and damage control. It's funny also because the players are nice kids but they were not the top players on the team.

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