Don't blame nike or addidas as they make cleats at various price points. I see ones from 30.00 to 200.00 in every store. My son wears his sisters older cleats. Fortunately my daughter has boat sized feet, he will be good for a number of years going forward. Lol2500.00 alot? Yes. Take the fee and divide by hours of training, what is the hourly rate? Add game hours and other hours and it is lower than you think. JMO
I don't blame Nike...they are masters at the business of convincing us we will play better, run faster, be more successful etc with more expensive shoes on our feet. We are the idiots that indulge it.
@9:34I disagree. 9:44 has it exactly right.I have respect for the game. Both in spirit and in actual play. I look at our natural team (men and women) in lacking the final quality that is so desperately needs and has long been overdue. Having 'closed' systems that are financially driven and tax heavy on families in resources (financial and otherwise) is the shame of it all.You don't have to take my word for it. PDA's (and the like) main selling point is "we'll get you looked at by colleges, we'll get you looked at by National Teams, we'll get you in top leagues", etc. Why can they say that? Because they have all but fully set it up that way.95% of players don't get to play with or against each other. Mostly for financial and greedy reasons.It makes great water cooler fodder for parents but hurts the development of the game. We are well down a path of only the halves, having the ability to get involved. Soccer, which had a history of being the most inexpensive of sports. A shame, tragedy and face all in one.DCShore
I think we have to accept that there are very few soccer activities around the world that are done out of any benevolent objective except for local town clubs where parent egos my be the driving force, but even when you see some of the local clubs merging with big clubs you see the desire for some grandiose objective even out of town clubs. The reality is that in the US the financial incentive is getting more kids through your model and for the bigger clubs it is to expand your model outside of a core local area. The US financial objective is to sell college recruiting and exposure to National programs and a we do it best marketing. In other countries, the big clubs and even smaller clubs build a feeder club of youth programs. It is even harsher that the US system because they cant afford to keep dead weight so while it is limited costs the bar is very high and kids will be discarded much faster out of the programs. There are a ton of kids waiting to take a spot if a kid doesn't cut it in the rest of the world. The development of these programs on the woman's side means that these spots are becoming more competitive there. Lastly, I think the proliferation and quality growth of Women's leagues (France and Sweden immediately come to mind) I think will present a difficult choice for some of the D-1 players of the future. Lindsey Horan of the U-WNT U-20s is the most notable to go this route.
1:15Can you bullet point the above?I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to say.DCShore
- Every one is for money- The US it is about growth of the Academy model getting more kids in and/or expanding geography, ie PDA, Match Fit and other clubs with multiple teams and multiple geographies.- Globally, the financial interest is building their pipeline of players to their professional leagues- Globally, the selection process is more brutal than that in the US because they are trying build a pipeline for their professional programs. The Academies are often associated with the professional clubs.- Lastly, with good European professional leagues that pay more than the NWSL will likely start to recruit the top players into their pro leagues Like Lindsey Horan. This could change the dynamic for top kids wanting to go D-1 as they have another very viable option.
Crazy talk. In the US for almost all kids it is about enjoying playing soccer.
I wasn't talking about the kids, I was talking about the power structure.
The sad fact is, no one will pay top dollar for season tickets to watch Sky Blue (I did, because it was cheap). Nike or Adidas is not going to give Abby a $10 million dollar contract. Hence, the likes of Heather O'Reilly and Tobin Heath (both PDA alumni) will never make the kind of $$$ Leo Messi and CR7 does. Never. So, even if we win the Women's World Cup and Olympics, these women still have to have a day job. Getting your daughter to play D1/D2or D3 is awesome, but unless there is real money at the Pro level, we can all have this pointless argument and it wouldn't matter.
Can always play in Europe.
Well good morning everyone and welcome back from the weekend....Oct 2, 11:59am to answer your question, yes I do read each post but I only respond to what I feel applies to me. Now if I feel it doesn't apply to me or I feel has any substance to it I usually just ready it and go right over it. Sometimes I feel people sit on here and try to bait folks or lead them down a road where they want to ambush them. Well I'm well seasoned and I know what roads to take and what roads not to take. Kinda like having some street smarts. There are some posts I will entertain to see where the person is going but once I see what they are up to I drop it and let them go on their own basically. Eric Harris
Disney will remain a viable event until NPL and US Club start using strong arm tactics in the future. This will happen over time, you can bank on it.
US Club Soccer vs. Disney Corp? What does US Club soccer think they can do?
I think US Club trying to dominate the landscape way to fast and it could come back to haunt them if USYS can get their act together. A total revamp of ODP would be a good start, perhaps with a recommendation rather the silly tryouts they hold. They need meaningful identification of talent.The opening exists because things like the NPL tournament of average talent will brand the NPL as the ugly step-sister of the ECNL clubs. I have watched a few NPL games and there is a lot of Average teams mixed in with a few very good teams. Coaches are not stupid and they will see this.The responsibility lies with USYS to provide viable alternatives which they haven't as US Club Soccer has followed a much more aggressive model. If they don't respond with a credible alternative , then USYS will be relegated to local team and local tournaments, with State, Regional, and National tournaments that do not represent the best of soccer.
USYS Region 1 is under new 'management'. The previous director has been forced out and they have rapidly started changing things, at least on the regional competition level with a year round tiered league structure with promotion & relegation. Don't know if this will trickle up to the national level, but hopefully things will change for the better.
ODP needs an overhaul as well. The ECNL/NPL has done a good job of marginalizing ODP in the last few years.
The ECNL teams in PA support ODP. The '99 birthyear coach is the Penn Fusion u16 coach. Lots of kids from all 3 PA ECNL teams participating in EPYSA ODP at the '00 and '99 levels. Definitely not dead in PA. Last year not dead in NJ either. PDA sent at least a couple of kids to Region 1 camp. Interestingly while a couple made the pool, none appear to be on the "A" Boca roster.
USYS in 2011 saw they had a big issue and US Club pounced on it. Creating the NPL and the ECNL has as well marginalized ODP. There may be a few clubs that send kids. PDA may have kids in ODP but on the ECNL and NPL teams, ODP is not prevented by coaches but it is also not encouraged because they feel there are more benefits to playing in ECNL and NPL than on ODP. The issue remains that in high level US Club teams kids are recommended to go to ID camps and if teams send rubbish then their recommendations won't be accepted in the future. IMO, the problem with ODP is you get a ton of kids at tryouts and a few evaluators have to judge kids over an hour and half which leads to a lot of what has been debated on this board, which is the faster bigger kids selected. I found this USYS presentation which in 2011, USYA was recognizing that US Club was winning the battle for the Elite player and over the last 3 years, the gap has gotten worse. In this presentation, they state that US Youth Soccer values soccer as the “The Game for All Kids” We are in danger of becoming “The Game for All but the Best Kids” This reality is pushing more and more kids to USYS and will marginalize the State, regional, and National Cups, ODP, and perhaps tournaments like Disney.http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/assets/1/1/EliteSoccerOverhaul_Turner.pdf
The high level US Clubs are in danger of creating on the girls side, "the game for all but the middle and lower income kids".ODP and ID leave out the significant number of talented players that can not finance ODP or the costs associated with the type of clubs that participate in ID.I am not sure how to finance inclusion of those players. But if that issue is not addressed, these organizations will not truly find or develop all the best talent this country can produce, only the best talent that can pay for access to these programs.
I'm not sure if it was on this post or not, but someone suggested adding a small fee to the USYS fee, ie $3-5, that could fund camps, recruiters that could scout players at big and lesser known local tournaments. Their website says there are 3,000,000 kids between 5-19 registered with USYS. That would go a long way in funding a much better identification program.
In US soccer elite refers to both the player's skill and bank account.
yes Elite=Money in today's environment, but I think there is enough frustration that feel that they are forced to go down a path, that if USYS had a viable elite alternative then I think people would go to those clubs , or stay with their current club that is treating them well. I look at a team like NEFC that loses their best players to the ECNL. If a kid felt there was a different route to being identified in todays world outside of the ECNL, the decision process would be different. But the reality is, if you are not in the ECNL/NPL today you have a much harder chance of being seen/identified. ODP is a shadow of what it once was with increasing numbers at tryouts, not filtering until those tryouts, a totally player funded model.
ODP is moving away from the size is everything mantra- at least at the regional level. Some of the very smallest technical players made the region 1 pool and even the Boca roster. Two of the smallest in NYE and PAE are on the Boca roster. They are also 2 of the most technically advanced kids in the east. The larger kids were chosen as center backs and dmids. There were several clear R1 mistakes including one kid on the national team being excluded, but the trend has been toward choosing smaller more technical players. Doesn't seem to have reached the national level yet as evidenced by the poor robotic clunky soccer played by the U20s.
Odp is exclusionary by income. They can only select from those that can finance it. That said..for those can participate, maybe they are improving their Id criteria.
Us club Id program seems to make sense in theory. Youth coaches know who the best players are from seeing them play every week over the years and in many different situations. They are the obvious first step in the id chain. But because this program seems so heavily club based, it is more of a carrot dangled to attract players to certain clubs than a true talent I'd program.
Girls soccer will not get free top training like boys academy. Girl programs need to find top players with money to fund the operation and boys have pro team to fund program and need to find best players period.
@8:07There truly is no 'free' top training. Somebody is paying for it. Just remember that. I agree for the girls though this will be a bigger challenge but probably not nearly as big as once thought.I think it is important we distinguish between what 'monies' are involved int he sport as well.The money most organizations are focused on is that money that is focused on the 'brand'.It is important for certain academies/clubs to participate in closed league's/systems in order to protect their brand. This financial motivation/engine is driving the closed systems that are not propagating. As I have always maintained it's great business that certainly produces for some individuals (players and staff) but over-promises and under delivers for most.Also bad for the development of U.S. soccer/the U.S. game/mentality. Simply put, there are too many of the better/best players not playing at all levels, not playing enough, not playing at all. DCShore
There are many revenue streams for boys academies that stem from having a first team playing MLS. Ticket sales,sponsorships, training, media rights, etc. Not an expert in the business of MLS but it seems the success of the franchise relies heavily on having superstar players. Clearly girls "academies" have no access to this kind of cash. The revenue stream on the girls side is form the families of the players. It is a fundamentally different system. Finding and developing great female players is not enough...they must be able to finance their own development.
Anyone have any thoughts on this weekend's Wags tournament. Some quality tri-state teams attending? Hard to predict as teams have changed rosters.
With these types of tournaments the questions are who is injured from school ball? Who is "guesting"- the ringer factor. But in generealABGC in bracket 1 assuming they bring the "A" teamManhattan or Sting in the second bracket. Will choose the region 1 team.FC PA will have to get past Piedmont Triad- not easy so that one is a toss up but I will choose the local favorite (or favorite to beat up on)to get throughAssuming there wasn't a run to the ECNL in GA will pick UFA in the last.Final FC PA versus ABGCABGC wins it
My final four for WAGS:ABGC vs UFASTING vs TRIAD
Some great soccer out at the WAGS tournament today. ABGC FCV is rolling and looks like they should advance. Herndon may be a surprise to some, already clinching their spot in the semis after two victories. FC Penn can advance with at least a draw against East Islip.
Predictions are always easy when you already know the result. The games were anything but predictable for the two teams that advanced. FCV struggled to beat a scrappy Loudoun team and FC Penn needed a controversial goal to put them up in the second half. With Herndon pushing extra bodies forward for an equalizer the Strikers capitalized and got a late insurance goal. Before the games one might have predicted lopsisded scores for FCV and FC Penn but that's not how it played out.
Uh yeah...I predicted the final on the 9th. So as predicted was properly applied. Also your assessment of the game is absurd. The "controversy" was the linesman waving flag as goal was scored. Center ref went over after goal to ask the linesman why flag was raised. Linesman said he was indicating a foul committed by Herndon. Goal stands. Refs called one foul the entire game- Against FC Penn. Herndon parents screaming on sidelines about repeated no calls. Herndon coach was an unvelievable gentleman. Calls across the field, " he's letting them play it's going both ways!" Shut them right up. Herndon didn't even have a real chance all game. No saves or shot recorded. The Herndon kids were playing unbelievably hard but simply were outmatched. Sorry obvious to anyone watching...except, apparently, a Herndon parent.
RE: the FC Penn v. Herndon game - FC Penn was clearly the superior team. They hustled to every ball and everything they touched seemed to find its mark. It was amazing to watch. That being said, I think the game was much closer than some would have expected. Both teams played extremely hard.Good luck in the finals.- A Herndon parent
FC Penn wins final over ABGC in PK's. 0-0 after regulation. 3-0 in PK's
2 excellent teams. Was the fc Va team the ecnl team?
My sense of the Herndon v. Strikers game. Strikers outplayed United from start to finish. Clearly. United kept it tied for about 50 of the 70 minutes mostly on grit and hustle and some great keeper play. The better side on the day won. Parents from BOTH groups had their moments with non-calls. And when the Herndon parents got too loud with it, the coach shut them down as described. Ref let 'em play throughout, and did not impact the result in any significant way. United is newer to this level of competition and has some adjustments to make to get used to the speed and skill of the top teams. Looking forward to future matchups with Strikers and other elite teams.- Another Herndon parent
ABGC/FCVA vs FC PA game was interesting. FCVA came out really strongly and had much the better run of play for the first 15 minutes or so. Then the game changed to more of a back and forth until the last 15 where FC PA was much more threatening. At that point there was a couple of no calls and one foul called that were a bit controversial (one in the box could have resulted in a FC PA PK) Very fast paced somewhat frantic game. The pace was largely dictated by the high pressure FC VA team. Neither team had many if any long strings of possession. FC VA passing might have been a bit better but the FC PA team wins 50-50s like no other. Both teams have some absolutley phenomenal players. Shout outs to attacking mids and forwards on FC VA and defensive mid and several backs on FC PA. Of course big saves by both GKs, but the FC PA keeper made several great ones during regulation and a key PK save. Probably 2 of the top teams in the country. Love to see them play PDA, Michigan Hawks, Top Hat etc
It appears that PA Strikers really hit the Continental ECNL team hard taking a couple of their key players. An already weak team made even weaker. I think they were 1-1 against ABGC before these players arrived. Yesterday apparently they tied. Do the new players make a difference? Did the ABGC/FCVA team strengthen with any existing players? Where is the best place for an "unclaimed" kid playing top of the roster on a lesser team? Probably time to make a decision.Is this switch a statement that the ECNL doesn't trump national league and free? IS FCVA living the best of both worlds? Or are they asking too much of their top players? It looks like their top players are playing in all of the ECNL games. Lesser players switching in and out of NPL/ECNL rosters. Did the top 18 play yesterday? Any other movement from-to ECNL teams likely? Are others looking at options now or is it too late?
I think FCVA got what it wanted -- the ability to play ECNL and USYS. I can't imagine the travel, financial and physical demands on that group of kids. Very talented pool of players, but how many sacrifices is any child to make for soccer.
30 X 2500 = FCV
Not sure I agree with the statement that the Strikers hit the Continental ECNL team hard. One of the girls had been playing up a year. So really only one player moved over. Begs the question...Is it better to play on a bad ECNL team or a top US Youth Soccer team that plays National League. I think the correct decision was made. To answer the question as to whether or not ABGC/FCVA has gotten stronger? Well there was no such team last year. They were two separate teams that merged. I would say in most cases when you merge two teams, the overall talent will be much greater. It might take some time for it all to gel. However, I do see where they have played several ECNL games together this fall already. Strikers were playing their first games in two months due to high school which makes their win even that much more impressive.
I agree that PA Strikers win was excellent considering most of the teams from up north are battling HS vs Club at this point. I'm sure many teams were playing with few if any practices as a team. Still happy to see some better soccer after 6 painful weeks of HS soccer. Looking forward to CASL and NEWSS, Disney also.
My DD makes an interesting point. there are twins on the region1 '00 team. 1 plays ECNL and the other plays in the National league. Beyond their reasons to separate them, it is interesting that they didn't choose one league over the other for their kids. At least one family thinks that both are viable alternatives.
So Virgina State Cup semi-finals are set - Beach v FCV/fka Annandale and Vienna v Herndon. While a betting person would put their money on FCV, Beach has beaten them the last two times they played. Vienna has given Herndon a run for its money but Herndon should power through.
FCV wins it all. Their strikers will dominate. But did they lose to beach twice?
Any value to the college recruiting process with these camps or similar camps run by other organization?http://exactsports.com/soccer/
I think what you will find is the schools with the better programs send assistant coaches. I think the camps are valuable if a coach from a school that you are interested is there, you let the coach know you will be there and request that they take some time to see you specifically. If you are just going in the hopes that a coach will see you and you will walk away on their recruiting list than the vale is marginal. Like everything in soccer, the proliferation of ID camps as a money maker has hurt their value and diminished their quality. As they compare, I think the Excat camps are decent.
Thanks 1:49. Please let me know if you know of any other quality camps like these. My daughter may be interested, depending on the colleges participating.
Probably best off to target a camp at a college for which your child has expressed an interest.
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