Great question but I didn’t see the PDA games so based on my personal opinion, those scores might be acceptable. If I was a coach, and I’m definitely not, and observed an obvious mismatch, once the score is 1-0 nothing, I pull all my best players and play bottom third the rest of the way. Once the score is 3-0, I would instruct bottom third they must work the ball back to the keeper 2 times then forward with every line touching the ball twice before they can score. IF the score then gets to 5-0, I would then keep the same criteria but allow only one touch to accomplish this. IF the score then got to 7-0, I would keep the same rules in effect except one touch, weak foot only. If we continued to score I would find other ways to make it more difficult for us to score. I would at no point tell them they couldn’t score, I would just find ways to make it nearly impossible. Always right, imo
Play rec if you can't compete well enough to save your team embarrassment. Not PDA fault it's a coach or club putting themselves in a situation to be destroyed. Playing ball back or whatever is just as demoralizing. It's the coaches and delusional parents fault that put those kids in that compromised position. Ahhh but everyone is elite now right?
PDA Pride must be pretty proud of themselves. Celebrations all around, did everyone on the field score a goal? An as the previous poster thinks, those parents are NOT at all embarrassed. They probably paid their kids per goal...
1:00 PM Leadership starts at the top. You can't have a tournament in NJ with 32 teams and expect every team to be competitive. The coach very early on had know the direction of the game and could have slowed it down. No this is just horrible sportsmanship. Anything to feel good about yourselves. Don't kid yourself, you go ask a majority of coaches and they wouldn't do what this coach did.
What I pay my kid$ 50 right footed goal$ 75 left footed goal$ 100 header goal$ 25 assist$ 10 pass before assistWhat do you think am I over paying
you parents funny. very sad and petty. just not up with youth soccer and state cups. the pda vs township game was a lot to a little, but don't dare say PDA had bad sportsmanship or tried to disrespect the game of soccer. the town team had no business competing in a us club state cup event period and they actually showed the poor sportsmanship putting his girls in a environment like that and making the decision he did. with that said, a competitive team and a coach try many things to off balance the score when playing against misplaced team- while playing soccer. key is still playing soccer and not having the restriction of not scoring, but other things. how fun is that soccer without scoring, its not!! this reminds me of the sjsl/sjgsl mercy rule which is ridiculous. Teams would pass for ever trying not to score. nevertheless, the team dominating is getting upset bc they can't play soccer and the other team feels even more stupid bc the team dribbles all the way to the goal to turn the ball back towards own goal and do it for 30 straight minutes. seriously, people it helps nobody. maybe the township coach should have stopped the game at half time, im sure anyone in that situation would agree to call the game. I blame the tournament for allowing township team and the coach for poor preparation or judgment of what level they are putting the poor girls into. I think us club has 2 divisions. The girls are 15 not 10. if I was the township coach/parent , I'd ask yourself ARE you really worthy/committed to compete for the best in the state. I think NOT, stay in your rec league and tournaments as harsh as that sounds. get facts people, facts before you bash the club!
Even if you are right so then you punish the kids for the decision of the coach or the parents. There are 32 teams in the tournament. With about 28 teams in the tournament, you will have mismatches. The team PDA won a game before them. That is the nature of this type of tournament. Any way you slice it, 13-0 is absurd and most coaches wouldn't agree with this type of running up the score.They might get forgiven once if this specific team didn't have a history of chasing lower level tournaments against teams that can't compete with them. The have struggled when they have punched at their weight or a little below so this is how the coach feels he has to compete to get his team to feel good about themselves.
Hey 5:11, how many goals did your daughter score in that game? You are not seriously blaming the Voorhees coach, are you?
Isnt the coach of pride also the DOC? Does all their teams do this in State Cup games?
"WE PLAY TO WIN THE GAME" for all the NFL heads out there. Hehehehe
5:11 Maybe ask why a PDA and other super duper fantasmagoric high level clubs choose to participate in a tournament that is mostly lower level town teams that you stick your nose up at. Maybe you should look at the brackets and see where the majority of teams come from. Maybe you should be embarrassed entering a tournament with Voorhees, TBAA, Princeton, 2 Cherry Hill teams, Parsippany, 2 Wall teams, Bergen, Twin County, RYSA, BSA, USCFA, 2 Freehold teams, Cohansey, Old Bridge, SJA, North Burlington.... You get the point.Maybe your coach put your team in this tournament to beat up on smaller clubs so can feel good about yourself and brag on this blog and say it's not my fault. Most of these clubs can't get into the Jeff Cup, PDA Showcase, NPL League. The Monroe and Jackson tournaments are coming up, may should should encourage your coach to enter.
Sorry, we are already committed to Kirkwood.
If memory serves me correctly, they didn't dominate at Kirkwood, but did win tournament. Maybe they did enter the right tournament? Regardless how you slice this up, PDA South should be embarrassed by that cup victory regardless of the circumstances. 13-0 is uncalled for no matter what. Those parents and the PDA faithful know it, hence the lack of defense on this site compared to past. One last comment, PDA Athletica knew that 8-0 in their victory was more then enough, but even that is over the top. Sportsmanship people, sportsmanship, figure it out.
It’s really not that big of a deal. The posters who point out that once you enter a State Cup tournament, a low level team may run into a severe mismatch. That, imo is a valid point. Once a mismatch is played, certain outcomes are inevitable. But the 2 or 3 posters on this forum who hate PDA will use whatever they can to continually bash them. They turned what could’ve been a decent topic into their personal PDA bashing agenda. Whatever. Always right, imo.
8:34, what positive spin could anyone possibly put on the 13-0 win PDA had? Why is it PDA bashing? I believe anyone on here would be outraged at ANY team who ran up the score that way.
What a POS. at U15 and above the cup is for lower level teams. Please, most of the teams listed are strong town teams, except PDA, SJE, and NJ Rush. You should be embarrassed, yes clueless, your team is in a weak tourney to win games, big! As the DOC I would expect more, than if he were just a coach. Bad decisions, bad leadership, bad ethics. He needs to be flushed down the privy along with your $$$. Anyone defending him must still be passing around the hash pipe. DISFRACE is the word that comes to mind.
Lol. Now I’m a POS and another poster is putting words in my mouth that I am defending 13-0. I understand that you are incapable of reading my other posts with a clear head due to your PDA hatred and rage. All I’m saying is it’s not that big of a deal. Once the mismatch was scheduled, there was no way for one team to not totally dominate the other. If a team intentionally runs up the score, that is a bad thing. I have no evidence of this. The PDA coach may have played his bottom third with their weak foot the entire game for all I know. Just because someone who judges me to be a POS based on 2 posts on an obscure forum says that PDA intentionally ran up the score does not make it true. Plus you forgot to mention FC Copa Milan, who I think will win the Cup. They won their first game 7-0. Is that running up the score? I will not post on this subject any further. Enjoy yourselves while trashing my opinions.Always right, imo.
What a joke, how do you not run up a score when the game is 13-0? Are goals accidentally scored? Yes 7-0 is bad but 13-0 is far worse and Atletica's 8-0 win was also bad. For the record, the bashing started when someone blamed and bashed the Voorhees coach for entering the state cup that is wholly populated with local teams.
I'm with you, would 15-0 be considered running up the score? Oh wait, how about 18-0, is that the breaking point? Who are you kidding? 13-0 is running up the score and a classless act! I'm not a PDA hater, but I am disappointed in PDA with this result.
Did anyone attend the final NJ ODP tryouts yesterday? Someone said it seemed like there were less girls than originally accepted. She said especially the ‘99s.
I'm not surprised about the parents blaming the other coach. That sounds just the type of BS that would have come out of the mouth of the PDA coach, and that is good enough for them.Hey, yeah, I know that was an ugly game, but hey I'm a nice guy, and shame on their coach for putting them in this tournament. It's his fault. I really do feel sorry for the girls. I bet. Anyone want to confirm.? Same coach that signed up for the wrong NJ state cup, then blamed the state for not changing them after the deadline. It's the state's fault, so we are going to go blow out teams in the "B" division. Same club that forgot cards for a state cup game , and blamed the other coach for the forfeit, well they could have let us play. The cards were coming. Yup not your fault. Nice guys don't blow out teams and blame the other guy, nice guys don't say screw the state, we screwed up, but we will just play lesser competition. Nice clubs don't forget cards and blame everyone but themselves. I call that having a lack of integrity and a problem with owning your faults as well as your triumphs. Weak is what comes to mind. I don't know maybe he really is a nice guy, maybe, how can I say this delicately, uh, maybe his elevator does not go all the way to the top floor.
ODP was canceled for 2000 and younger due to Green Lane fields being unplayable. Yes, way less girls there.
It's my last question/comment on this topic. But I am struggling to find any precedents for team's winning by a 10+ goal differential let alone 13. Has anyone seen a 13 goal differential before?
Only in America do we cry about running up the score. Take your lumps, learn something and play your next game.
Let the Gunners play the Pride and you would see a 10plus goal differential on the opposite side.
9:55. You are so right. Only in America do we blame every one else for our mishaps, and do we not own up to our crap! It's not my fault. You want to own how successful you are, then own how creepy you can be also. There is a reason that there is not a superior and premier level at U15. No one was expecting the "academy" teams to register. Shame on those town teams for entering a mediocre NJ club tournament, it was really meant for the top 6, or so teams in NJ. PDA, copa, SJE, nj rush, toms river. How dare those others enter? Wow,what a tournament it would be, if only the best teams in NJ signed up. You would only need 1 or 2 weekends of soccer. From the looks of the brackets, you are the outsiders. Excuses, Our coach would never put his team in position that would ahnnilate another team, let alone have to defend his actions as Nobel, and the other coaches fault. There in lies our main differences, being proud win or lose, and not having to make excuses, or, being lame, and trying to justify every damn thing. I'm lame Rob Lowe..... And I .....
Just curious, is there this outcry when the little league football team wins by 5-6 touchdowns, the basketball team wins by 30-40 points,the baseball team by 13 runs or so.. sometimes losing big can be a reality check in many ways. I never heard of the NJ Cup being geared towards town teams, not the case in other states. Don't get me wrong, 13-0 is a big pill to swallow but I believe playing keep away for half the game is even more demoralizing. It happens in HS sports etc.. these kids will get over it, seems like it hurts the parents more than anything. It's always the same people crying about the same things, when you play sports, things happen! That is life, time heals wounds. Get over it!
7:48 The tournament is open to all teams in NJ,but what satisfaction do the top 5 clubs get in playing g in this tournament when they have access to much more competitive tournaments. Look at the teams, the majority are town teams. I think the discussion has moved from to the blowout to whether this was a purposeful act on the coach. I don't see how it can be seen as anything but this. A coach had to recognize early on the type of game he was in and could have slowed the game down. I have never seen 13-0 in youth soccer. 13-0 would probably be like 80-0 in football or 150 to 0 in basketball. If you want to equate this to basketball, a HS coach was suspended for a 162-2 win in January and coaches have been fired for similar extreme blowouts. The kids will get over it, the parents will get over it, but it none of this answers the question, why would a coach let this happen?13-0, has anyone ever seen that type of differential before?
Never a score of that gap. If I go back to modified soccer or little kickers, whatever you may call it in the 4-7 age group, even those coaches would not allow a score to be run up like that. Everyone can say what they want, but as a compassionate human, you just don't do that.
Okay I can’t take it anymore and I certainly can’t stay quiet. As you know I am a PDA supporter but most of all a supporter of all children in general. Now in my opinion which will be from both a parent and player will differ but please 13-0………I applaud them because as an athlete that’s what you are suppose to do regardless of your opponent so that’s my stance on that. As a parent sure it’s over kill but this is sports and it will happen no matter what. Did that team belong in the state cup………YES and guess what they just so happened to run across a team that was better than them………..IT HAPPENS so get over it. This is sports people, and that fact that this team or any other team took the rode that said LEAVE NO DOUBT…….I applaud them but you have to remember that what goes around come around and that when in life you are on the other side of that you remember what it felt like when you were on the other side of it. If you beat a team 13-0 what’s the difference if you beat them 6-0, 5-0, 7-1, 8-0, etc……..in this case it matters if your name is PDA but in other case it’s all fair I guess. Well for the haters I would love to play a game of youth football against maybe your youth football team if I could go back in time lol lol I recall and this is before they started making rules but I can recall beating teams 60-0 and we did that a lot but no one cared well none of my coaches cared they taught us to RUN IT UP and who cares. In this situation I believe the coach let them play soccer and whatever happened, happened as usual. Why fault them for being or doing what they do. Some of you run your mouth so much about how PDA Pride is nothing but a TOWN TEAM and the B,C,D,E team………………..So they play a “TOWN TEAM” of their standards in some of your eyes and they BLOW them out and now what……………THEY are this BIG ACADEMY team that doesn’t belong or shouldn’t play in this tournament……………Listen that is inconsistent in my opinion and I can say that in text or in your face YOUR INCONSISTANT and you should make up your mind on how you view them. Coaches should be content with coaching the GAME and not worry about the score. If it was 20-0 so what or 1-1 I could care less to be honest. if any of you watch any college basketball let me hit you with a few scores to job your PDA hating brain. 115-26, 117-44, 102-43, 100-45, 106-56, 85-26, 87-24, 96-31………now these are all amateur scores from some college womens basketball game and I tell you I doubt the Coaches are getting fired…………Oh wait sorry those are the scores from UCONN this season just a few lol lol and tell me do you think GENO cares about what the other coach is feeling……………..or those other players on the varies teams are feeling. Do you think that he is thinking I am being UNSPORTSMANLIKE……………………………HECK NO. A quote from Geno AUR. …..”My job is not to win the game, but to LEAVE NO DOUBT”………So for you haters when do you think GENO is getting fired. I don’t want to hear that its college….thats nonsense. Get over yourself and don’t worry PDA…………Haters are gonna hate but ERIC HARRIS will be here to check them as they do it and call them all out as they do it. Eric Harris
Eric, you were doing so well. I was proud of you. Don’t let the 2 people that suffer from PDA OCD on this forum get to you.
My all-time favorite unsportsmanlike conduct event was Mike Tyson biting off Evander Holyfields ears.
Thanks Eric, UCONN is the first place I go to learn about coaching integrity. I think the coach in question spent some time there so at least we now know where he learned it.No Eric, 13-0 is just wrong.On a related note, what do you think about paying kids for goals at U-15, that certainly encourages kids to run up a score and play individual soccer.
A quote from the scholl upon suspending their coach for winning a basketball game 162-0:“We are really emphasizing that we want them to pursue victory with honor, and that means playing the game with dignity, regardless of the outcome of the game” San Bernardino Unified School District official Maria Garcia said.
Comments from March 26, 2015 at 1:14 PM about the state of NJ nailed it. Unfortunately, nothing will change. Youth sports has been corrupted.
I will let you pick any school you want and I bet if you look at their schedule there are teams that they hammer. Even the bad teams aren’t bad all the time. I think UCONN is a great place for women’s Basketball along with several others but I only mentioned them to prove a point. Look at any of those school in the Final Four of women’s Basketball even Notre Dame look at them. Trust me I get why you are upset and you don’t have to admit it to me but it’s merely because its PDA but I am okay with that and you know that. It’s nothing personal it’s just your dislike for the Club. Well you know where I stand and how I feel and I will always defend them and stand up for them. Now to the real stuff was 13-0……….overkill….from a parent yes and probably not necessary but that’s just me. Was it wrong for them to run it up…..NOPE this is sports and I will defend the house that SPORTS built. I have been on both sides of a butt whipping. When your whipping the butt its GREAT and it feels good………but when you are not man…………………that’s a long long game and you can’t wait till its over but its also a teaching moment and humbling moment. As far as paying for goals at U15………….nothing wrong it. It’s no different than rewarding your child for “A’s” in school or Graduating from High School. Whatever motivates your kid to do what you deem makes “YOUR” day go well. I tend to reward my children with food, shelter, and occasionally breathing fresh air…..lol lol no but seriously do I or would I. I think not because I don’t feel the need to have to motivate you to do well. If you can’t motivate yourself to want to do it because you WANT IT then hey find something new to do because the end is near….and don’t worry no one on this board gets to me……..I will say about 98% of the folks have great intentions and really are good folks….maybe misunderstood but great guys and women. Eric Harris
Eric,I disagree with you on the paying for goals. In my view you reward the behavior you want on the field. Teams score goals more than individuals. Paying a kid to score goals could be a factor in a player choosing to pass to a better option or not. On running up the score, I probably come a different era and different school. On this topic every coach will have there own view. Three of my childhood heroes are Don Shula, Chuck, and Tom Landry. None of which were ever out to humiliate an opponent. Yeah, would they want to lay a whooping on the competition, yes, of course, they were sending a message for future games, but humiliate an opponent, no. And in this case, there was no message to deliver to Voorhees, they will probably never play again. This is a great quote from Mercury Morris, “The reason Don Shula doesn’t like that kind of thing is because he’s old school,” Morris said on The DA Show. “If we beat you, there’s no sense in us adding on to it. (Belichick is) old school, but he’s handling stuff like the way Don Shula would never handle it – and that’s respecting the guy on the other side.”You can be a great coach and not have humility. I am happy to admit I don't like the PDA model, but as much as you try to justify it, 13-0 is excessive and meant to humiliate. The question has been asked, for sure there has been mismatches, but how many coaches have gone as far as 13-0.
Hard to understand why folks get a dose of morality when the initials are PDA :)Where do you draw the line? Is winning 4-0 and passing the ball around the back better?The real issue is why these 2 teams are matched up in the first place.Oh wait, it is the need to have State cups etc that make no attempt to actually crown the best team in the state.The desire to create so many "meaningful" games is driven by the desire to make money.That desire is FAR less healthy than the coaches simply letting the kids play. If you enter an "open" event , then these things will happen. It is unfortunate because no one really learns anything from these games, but blame the endless games that are put on the schedule to justify to you, the parent,that the $$$$ you spend are so worth it.
I think what I wrote came across as wrong and please let me apologize for you and say that what I meant was that for those that pay kids for goals or “A’s” although I don’t have a problem with it because its none of my business but as for me I don’t do it and I am not rewarding you for “DOING your JOB. I say its your job to either scoring, creating or stopping goals as a player as in my daughter. Why reward you for something that you are supposed to be doing. The reward is being a better player and hopefully helping your team to a win. Now if you as a parent at this age pays for a goal then as I said the end is near because whats going to happen when they don’t score goals………stop playing maybe because they are no longer get rewarded……I don’t know but I would say it’s a bad habit to start or continue at this age. Well although our era’s may be different I do know that locker rooms for either of those gentlemen which I grow up a Dallas Cowboys fan I know that they surely didn’t speak as to be nice and kind to the opposing players on game day. I been in lockers room with some great coaches in Dan Reeves and I know and I tell you yes sportsmanship and play within the rules of the game but “ONCE we get our foot on their necks…….KEEP it there”………………hummmmm I will let you make that call but we all got the point and just because you take a knee with 10 secs left in the game to end the game doesn’t mean you respect your opponent but a mere…………..lets get to the locker room and celebrate. Voorhees yes maybe or was over matched this game but lets look at what they did before this game. They beat a solid team pretty easy and probably overmatched the team but does that mean that team doesn’t belong…………no it doesn’t but it just says that Voorhees was a better team. Now PDA was an even better team than Voorhees so the score reflected that on this given day. Does it mean it will happen again……..maybe , maybe not but that’s why they play the game. You are right I do like the PDA model, but I also like the FC Copa Model, Matchfit model and one of my favor teams is the Freehold Celtic model. I like them all because they all are different and they all are similar in the ways that they are given kids a chance to compete and to be a part of something. Like I said from a parents point of view without knowing what I know about sports….yes its humiliating and degrading. As a father who played at the highest level in my sport I would say it’s a lesson for both groups of girl. For the girls that won 13-0 I would say remember how you did it and try to do it every game against every opponent and remember how you did and remember the good things that you did to get that 13-0 result. For the girls that lost 0-13 I would say its one game and it wont define you but only make you one of two things. Either you pack your stuff up and turn it in and quit, or you get back out there the next training session and you work on what you did wrong to make it right and you continue to work on your weaknesses so that next time you either make that game closer or you win it. Either way you look at it is a lesson for both teams. Eric Harris
Would we be discussing it if it weren't PDA, probably not? Is it distasteful whether it is PDA or not, IMO it is.You are right on the quest for the $$$. The question for the people that organize the cup is what they want it to be. Is it the best 32 teams, is it all comers regardless, is it for teams that can't play in big tournaments but want an experience to compete in. After reading this blog, I still have no idea.
Eric, My last word on this. I agree that players have to come out ready to play, but I don't think Dan Reeves, Don Shula, Chuck Noll , or Tom Landry that when have have a team bloodied, beaten, demoralized, and without a remote possibility of coming back that you keep on beating and humiliating your opponent. I personally think very few coaches would agree with beating a dead opponent. Kind of like the horse I'm beating right now.But as a Cowboys fan, I think you lost a lot of respect on this board. I guess we will be watching you and Chris Christie watching a Giants Cowboys game together next season.
Did anyone actually watch the PDA games? Was it 4-5 Gunners kids filling in for Atletica and Pride, with the Gunners scoring all these points?
No guests at this game and none needed it was a mismatch from the start.
@8:09.. are you aware rosters are frozen and can not be changed once NJ Cup starts..
Gunners were rostered and played for the lesser PDA teams last year, I am sure it is the same this year.
Since you are sure, how many Gunners played last week and how many played in the cup last year. Answer: 0. I don't like that my club ran up the score, I don't think it showed class. But at least be honest if you are gonna post here.
If a basketball team is playing a mismatched opponent, eventually the starters go to the bench and the non-starters play. Is this what happened in the 13-0 win? Or the 8-0 win? Or the 7-0 win? I would have no problems with a 13-0 score if the additional goals were from non-starters who got a chance to play. It is about development yes? On the other side, did the losing teams keep their starters out on the pitch for the entire game? Tired girls = mental mistakes --> more goals. I hope all the girls on the losing side got playing time, even against the big bad PDA. It sounds like to me some parents want the State to ban certain clubs from playing in the state tournament. Isn't that called "discrimination?" Maybe these parents should move to Indiana.
Nobody wants any clubs banned, what I think people want is some integrity in coaching. PDA touts they are the best in development and college recruiting yet their methods seem less then ethical. For the DOC to allow his team to run up the score like that is just plain wrong. What was his post game pep talk to the team??
Would be such an advantage to play against a team if I knew their players were being paid with cash to score goals.Much easier to defend against a team that has no incentive to pass the ball.
this continued assault o PDA is just hilarious. The jealousy oozes from every post. We all get it, 13 goals is probably too much, but why there is so much fuss over an isolated incident is obvious - I understand - you hate PDA because they are successful. One lack of judgement ( is indeed that is the case) will not change the fact that they are by FAR the best Club in this area and it is not even close.I am not a PDA parent.
You may be confusing the Pride from the Gunners. What you may miss is that this is not new for them they have not been successful and have sought out lesser competition The common thread is no PDA, there's not a lot to hate towards the gunners, atletica, or the breakers. No one doubt's that PDA is successful, the reputation of the south team is almost legendary at this point.
Whats so legendary about this team?Better yet, why won't you dads that are on that team just stop and let the 15 year old GIRLS play soccer. Eric you were spot on.
April 2 at 4:03 is just a small start.
IMHO, when you come out to compete, you put yourself out there with risk.I would MUCH rather see town teams (more importantly their players) exposed to the higher competition EVEN at the risk of a few severe lumps and bad meetings. SADLY there is likely to be no such ongoing opportunity. Sure if we were coaches we might manage the game differently. We might not.While I am certain no coach wants to go into a match to get beaten so bad, a quality coach would take the opportunity for such a match in order to help their team grow, gain valuable experience and learn. Again, it's a chance you take. I am not sure of the mindset for any of those coaches but I bet at least a couple would do it again for the experience. I would hope that those dominant teams at least played the game the right way so it was a learning experience for them as well. I cannot speak for Voorhees but I have seen Twin County and Shore play in the past. Nice town teams. Certainly not strong enough to compete with the strongest teams but decent little squads.They may have run into mack trucks this time around but that is how it goes. Last year many of us (myself included) sang the praises of town teams like Toms River and Freehold. If any town team is to grow they need to embrace this kind of competition. I am a firm believer that the more matches like this they see the better they can fare in the future. In conclusion, running up the score is not what bothers me. I understand those who question it though. Maybe I should be more upset.It's just the fact that many of the town teams only get one crack a year at some of these teams. This level of play.Most of you know I am not in love with PDA, but it would be very disingenuous of me to get upset over the recent NJ Cup results. Not when I am one of the folks BEGGING for more open play. Which I believe is better for the players and sport.Best of luck to any of the players/parents/teams still in it.DCShore
As far as paying/offering incentives to players is concerned...ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?Parents, please get out of the way of your children lives (or at least sport) and let them enjoy enjoy the game for the sake of enjoying it and figure it out on their own. I thought that kind of crap went away after 7 or 8 years old.DCShore
@9:19.. that was spot on! Teams can learn from a loss like that, can also open the eyes of parents. There are levels to the game of soccer.. great post DC Shore!
DC I disagree with you, but I think you have made the most coherent argument why a 13 goal differential is OK. Especially the open versus closed argument is a sensible one and in that system you will get some large mismatches.. In a true open and closed models, some teams are ready to move to the next level and some are not, but a true open system would take away some disincentive for kids moving year to year and allowing smaller programs to try to build something.On the learning a lesson, I guess my view is that once you have learned your lesson is there any value to learning the lesson over and over again?There is a point where the lesson for a victor is winning with humility and respecting that while the other team is not at your level that they are out there competing. But every coach will have a different view on this.
DC ShoreYour off base why shouldnt the girls get performance incentive,That's exactly what is going to happen for the rest off there life.Isn't that why there playing for now perhaps a scholarship Isn't the rest of there life's income going to be performance based ??I'm guessing pro athletes love the game and also love the fact that when they plAy well they get payed well .Not a voorhees parent
Performance incentives for team goals maybe, but 50 bucks for a goal in a team sport goes against team play and fosters individual play. Selfish play and coaches who do nothing about it is why many teams under perform.
How is the recruiting going for girls this age? Is it about to begin with the memorial day tournaments? Are kids already getting interest or are they going on unofficial visits? Are they scheduling them for the summer? Our team hasn't seen much yet.
@310 could not disagree more. I don't believe in incentives like that for my kids, but you make a sweeping assumption. Rewarding a child for doing well is nothing new and will continue.
Individual incentives are wrong on many levels in soccer. Especially money for goals. Creating a reward for individually scoring goals takes away the team play that is required to play at the next level. Scoring a goal is only a small indicator of the level of all round play. If you want to offer an incentive, make it team based. Offer incentives for overall team record. Even though I don't agree with this at least it teaches the lesson that it is a team sport and you rely on each other and win and lose as a team. Most of the parents I know who have offered money for goals are not doing it to get their daughter to try harder (The kids play for fun and success not money), they are doing it so they can brag how many goals there daughter scored this week. With anything in life (sports, reading, school)it is better to have an individual who motivates themselves intrinsically so they develop a life-long love of the activity. The 1000 of dollars you are spending as a parent to play and travel for soccer should be enough of a motivator!!!
@324 recruiting is a very personal thing. I believe that several top schools have identified players they want. It is up to the families concerned whether they reach out or not. The process for those that have the talent and want to reciprocate, is well underway. It is a small community and the top recruits are no secret.
Not if it's the players job to score goals or make assist or as defender stop a one in one situation .It's a team sport but each player has a specific task and if the player does it well does it well why not give an incentive ?
@328 Disagree. No one is stopping any parent from rewarding whatever they see fit. Most top goals scorers have a selfish streak in them. I will also say that not every goal is a team goal and the scoring of them is the single highest paid attribute in the sport. Ronaldo makes a lot more than Iniesta because he scores goals. There is a myth that is perpetuated amongst many that a goal is the result of other peoples work - usually the HARDEST part is putting the ball in the back of the net.
That's your opinion The 1000 you spend in soccer never entersThere mind.Do you think they walk around thinking " my parents paid a lot for me to be participating in soccer . I am going to work really hard at practice and at games because I appreciate it ! " Then your delusional .These girls train hard 2 maybe 3 times a weekSometimes 2 games on a weekendDo they love it ?Of course they do , who would go through all that if they didn't love itSo why not give the something extra when they excel at itDo you really think they go out there with the attitude if I score a goal or make an assist I get $20No way man But when they do good what's wrong with letting know?Maybe they go out with there friends to Applebee's or buy some nail polish What's the big deal Come on man!
Ronaldo made one of the best passes I have ever seen against the US in the World Cup. That was his best decision. As a striker, he is often in a position to decide whether he or someone else is in the best position to score. More often than not he decides that he is the best option. Incentivizing the wrong behavior creates bad play. Would an incentive change behavior, yeah it would, and it is a coachesd job to reward or penalize a players behavior on the field.
Come on man!? REALLY!!!!! And that my friend is why they will always call your team the "D" team. You are still justifying paying your daughter 20$! For a goal @ the age of 15!
Take your kid to Applebbes or buy nail polish after the game, no problem with that. To pay a midfielder if they score a goal as an example will undoubtedly set up the wrong behoviors.
Wow this is so painful.As many have pointed out the 'incentive' could definitely be contradicting what is being coached. As many have pointed out this is a team game.As many have pointed out it can certainly interfere with a players decision making. (the most important factor)As I have pointed out, why put a kid through this? Why offer such lavish incentives if the kids are playing the game they love? Doing the right things anyway? How about just rewarding a player for a game well played with an ice cream, or a pizza. Or heaven forbid a heartfelt conversation tell them as much? A game well played...overall...and not just a goal/assist/specific thing?Parents did not reward their children for such things years ago. I recently read a biography on Lou Gehrig. When he came home to tell his parents he was quitting Columbia (University) to play for the Yankees (and yes make lots of money) his mother wouldn't speak to him for two months. Not because his parents were well off (they were pretty poor) but because in their eyes Lou was already achieving something magnificent as he worked towards his engineering degree.These days you can have an athlete who can barely read/write/speak get an offer to go 'pro' and the parents will throw a block party for them. Well, after they buy up the whole block to put place their mansions and park their cars of course. This is mainly because he/she is now getting "paid". Sorry, something is wrong with this mentality. And collectively we have achieved this as a society. Thumbs down.There is a larger social commentary aspect to all of this. But who has time for it. I just wan't wait to see tip jars in front of the bank teller...so they can make a few extra bucks for doing...well their job.So back to soccer. You want proof your kid loves the game. Stop paying them and buying their performance. You are only crippling them for the future (all soccer aside). You want proof your kid is a great decision maker/player. Stop paying them.Stop puppet-stringing their lives. This is probably the most absurd topic EVER on a soccer message board. Which is saying a lot in my opinion.DCShore
@11:04 AM"On the learning a lesson, I guess my view is that once you have learned your lesson is there any value to learning the lesson over and over again?"---> It all depends on how the team responds. Impossible for me to know the mindset of every coach but I bet at least a couple would be chomping at the bit to play the stronger teams even at the risk of a large defeat. It is the BEST way to get better. Or just recruit better players. But if you are committed to development you accept some challenges.I can totally see how some players, parents and maybe even coaches would be upset but expectations should be managed. Why would you want to win the NJ Cup of State Cup if you are not playing top competition?Don't get me wrong. It is easy for me to see an Academy Coach or DOC looking to impress his customers with a large defeat...especially if they have been on the losing end against other town teams. A 2-0 loss by an Academy to a town team is WAY more embarrassing than a 13-0 loss. At least in my view. There is probably 1,500 2,500 more reasons to be embarrassed ($).Again, I will not fault the academies here. I applaud town teams willing to give it a go and can only hope their teams respond positively. That's the way it should be."There is a point where the lesson for a victor is winning with humility and respecting that while the other team is not at your level that they are out there competing. But every coach will have a different view on this."----> Sure. As I said in my first response. We may have done things differently had we been the coach. We may not. As I was not present at any of the games I cannot tell you how each team played. I cannot tell you how truly 'out-classed' each team may have been. Or what their body language was like during and after the game. The two town teams I am familiar with are nice teams. Perhaps on another day they would have achieved closer results. Perhaps not. It's possible to have played your best game, still lost by a large margin to a superior opponent and walk away with something learned. Sorry it is true. Just think of it this way. Maybe the Voorhees team that lost 13-0 would have been better off entering a small town tournament and taking home the trophy. Besides accumulating an extra dust collector did they really gain anything valuable? Any valuable experience?Or think of it another way. I bet most teams would jump at a chance to play FC Sky Blue or the USWNT. Not because they would win but because the experience would be tremendous. I believe some coaches at the youth level think this way. Most likely though not enough of them.DCShore
DCShore, I agree with you:"Why would you want to win the NJ Cup of State Cup if you are not playing top competition?"How can it be State Cup or NJ Cup "Champion" if you didn't play the best teams?13-0? Big deal. at U-15 they should understand - if they don't it's too late. Stop playing sports.
There are very few coaches that would let a score get to 13-0. You can justify all you want, that's a coach that feels he has something to prove. It's about winning with humility.
Well at the u11 boys level for the nj cup there were 3 coaches ok with winning 11-0 and one with winning 10-0. Is 13-0 so different, or maybe you all expect girls to be more "polite"?
so wHat? Is the point that because other coaches do it it must be right. Since you know so much about the NJ Cup, how many coaches were restrained boys and girls at running up a score. Is your argument really that a couple of boys coaches at U+11 did it so it must be right?
April 6 - 3:47. My 15 year old really does appreciate the money that gets spent on her for soccer and travel and equipment. She sees a parent work 2 jobs so that she can do the hobbies she wants to. At 15 I do not think it is delusional for a child to appreciate what a parent provides for them. If you have a 15 year old who doesn't appreciate the things you do, and you have to pay her $100's of dollars to score goals I would suggest that someone is on the wrong path....Anyway, I know this is a soccer blog but there are many things outside of soccer that can be taught in this team sport. I have met some great parents and kids through my daughters hobby and wouldn't change the experience.
@ April 6 3:24 PM Only the top players on the top teams are being recruited at this age, at least from what I’ve seen and heard. After talking to parents of the older kids in our club it appears that late sophomore, junior year is when the offers are starting to really get thrown around. So as to have a point of reference these girls are mostly NPL level players getting D1-D3 offers with some type of financial benefit with the amount of money dependent on SAT and GPA.
Pride will win NJ Cup and shut everyone on this blog up!!
9:11 Let them win it first, I guess you've written off Virginia as a realistic place to be successful.The next game should be interesting, It will be a great recruiting opportunity. Will your coach invite 3 of the kids to practice for the rest of the year while carded for another team?
@9:41, you know it, he does it every year!
Copa wins jersey cup Fact
Name the facts you have that Copa will win NJ Cup.. you are mighty confident, a couple of other good teams still standing.
There are 5 or 6 teams that can still win the Cup. That's the fact, and if last year proved anything, anyone can win on the day if they play good soccer.
@ 9:41,coaches don't reach out to parents or players, parents contact coach because they are looking for what they think may be a better situation. Even if coaches did invite players to come train, if parents or player were happy with there current situation they wouldn't accept offer to come train.. common sense would tell you people don't leave happy homes.. hmmm
I have no issue with parents talking to coaches. What I take issue with is allowing kids to practically train with your team for an entire season when they are carded and still playing for another team. You do not see anything wrong with after training with a competitive team for 4-6 weeks, playing with the team you are carded with against the team you spent the season training with? As a coach, let the kids come to 1-2 practices to see them play, if you they want to train with you the entire season than take your card and leave. It is wrong from both a parent and player perspective to play both sides There are a lot of firsts with this team which makes them legendary. I have seen kids leave a team and be invited to train the remainder of a year with another team, I have seen kids come to a few practices to be seen by a new coach. I have never seen before kids training a season with another team while playing an carded to a team to another team especially one they will meet in competitions.
Coaches will not turn kids down from training, your complaint should be with parents who are doing it, parents want to be there or they wouldn't go.. if a quality player ask to train with the possibility of trying out and playing with team next year, not many coaches will say no. You Need To Ask Yourself Why Players From Your TEAM ARE Going There.. Might Be Time For you to join them, just saying!
If training at other team is better, what is wrong with that. Kids are hopefully developing and bringing learned skills back to your team. Sounds like a little Jelousy to me, if they are skipping practice to train with another team then shame on them, if it's on your teams off day then... it's none of your business where and who they train with.. just saying!
This was last year, but I get all the stuff like ethics and sportsmanship it doesn't matter as long as you win right? Do you have another example of a coaching letting kids train a season while playing with another team, one that you are going to play against. Most coaches know better.
It was last year it just happens that the NJ Cup matchup is the same as last year but kids were training weekly with the team and in the same week they the coach coached against them in the cup. This is not a few trading sessions it' a whole season. Maybe its ok its something I haven't seen before.
What parent wouldn't want their kid training with a coach whose team wins by 13 goals? I better email him.
Ok back to the important stuff, next round predictions for the NJ Cup?
Just saw Copa this weekend and they looked very good, just can't get past a nemesis from NY in Quickstrike. I believe they are the best in NJ with the exception of the Gunners. JMO but they appear ready to take another Cup this year. Stallions will be the darkhorse, no pun intended.
Yeah, Copa, Stallions, one of the PDa Teams. I don't know if freehold or TRE can hang. It looks like freehold and pride have the easiest path to semis unless rush surprises.
I think the stallions are out of it ?
I see the same, Freehold & Copa-Milan have easy path's to semi's, Pride has upper hand in that bracket although I hear the Rush team is much improved over past year with new players. Really a tough call on the one bracket between SJE, Mercer, PDA Shore, any of those 3 could advance with my bet on PDA Shore. Last one standing, bet on Copa.
I think that there is a bit of parity entering for the top 6-8 teams as things settle from last years movements. Smaller teams break up and the kids wind up on one of those top 6-8 clubs. I agree that Copa seems to be the best of the rest after the Gunners, but I think the gap has narrowed and....on any given day.
Is Copa playing with legit players? Talk about ethics!
What are you talking about? PDA is the club who stacks teams b-d with ECnl players.
Better check there cards!!!!!
They are allowed to play in both as long as its a single club. Can't play state cup for one club and ECNL for another unless you are a discovery player. FCVA has an entire roster play both ECNL and USYSA champions league and state cup.
Stallions Stampede are not playing NJ Cup. That was there brand new B team.
Copa got busted at nationals for illegal players. Huge scandal.
What team and what league. Copa does not play in the National League
PDA parents could not take the heat so they start nasty rumors about Copa, classless.
Copa was busted last year. Sounds like the owner made Paul the coach the fall guy. The coach left the country. Same coach was accused of taking some funds too.
@ 12:22Lol. You have PDA OCD. Don’t worry, it goes away when you kid stops playing club soccer in 2 or 3 years.
Moving on, anyone want to predict brackets for Non- Ecnl teams at PDA showcase? Will they put top teams together or spread them out? Probably be better matchups as the group of non- ecnl teams still playing to win, not just showcase. Will PDA let the top teams compete and possibly keep college coaches from the ECNL games?The non- ECNL are still about team. Any thoughts?
Looks like PDA Shore got handled by Freehold 2-0 yesterday according to EDP website. Oh boy!
Score was posted wrong PDA Shore 3 Freehold 2
"The sky is falling!"
A PDA shore vs PDA pride match up in NJ cup would be interesting, my money is on shore.
NEFC vs PA strikers should draw more coaches than any of the ECNL games. PDA should set it up and not put it against any of their teams' games
@ 1253 . Not likely. I have seen 60+ coaches at mediocre ECNL games to watch certain players. It all depends on who asks them to come and who else is playing. to be fair, both good teams, but I am not sure if either team has a real top stud type player , like say FC Bucks do.
Slow your roll 656First Pda pride probably gets there because they have the easiest schedule .But Breakers need to get past Sjeb highly unlikely and then against freehold though breakers beat celtics in there last outing breakers are unable to deal with freehold kick and run style game I see it freehold pride with freehold winning on sheer tenacity not so much because they play real soccer
Let's start a chant. PDA! PDA! PDA! PDA! PDA! PDA! PDA!!Love them or hate them... Gunners, Pride, Breakers, Athletica....you'll see PDA in your dreams...We should all find something better to focus on....I hear underwater basket weaving is enthralling.
No more PDA south bashing, folks, the comments get removed by the admin.
Well then…..for a change of topic……I don’t think PDA will play against any non ECNL teams like PA Strikers. I have heard that PA Strikers have 2 very talented strikers up top and their defense is exceptionally talented. A friend of mine watched them play in AZ. Very impressed with the team. I think they are participating in the PDA showcase in May. I wouldn’t be surprised if most, if not all of them are committed to schools already.
Strikers do have an excellent defense including their defensive midfielder who is a regional ODP player. However, despite their ball winning d-mid, their midfield, in general, is very vanilla. Not enough creativity to score against the best defenses. Saw them 3 times this last year. Unless they added a creative midfielder recently to break down defenses, I predict NEFC 2, PA Strikers 0-assuming PDA sets up this game.
@ 0849 Why is committing to schools already a good thing for a 15 year old girl? Do they all know what they want to do academically? In my opinion, Soccer is a way to get an education, but at present , not much more unless you are one of a very select few. I would be in no rush to push my kid to commit unless there were really compelling circumstances.
Lets bash match fitRemember when they took a tiop 5 team homdelll and destroyed itAnd what was the result A sucky ecnl and npl teamCan I get an amen
@8:49 ECNL teams will only play against other ECNL teams at the PDA Showcase as it is an official ECNL event. The only acception is FCVA who will play a non-ECNL schedule at this event. I would like to see a PA Strikers, NEFC, Ponte Vedra, FCVA group. That would be as good as any ECNL grouping. By the way, none of the Strikers are committed to colleges yet. Only a small handful of 2018's are committed. I think we are still a year away for most players this age.
Maybe the admin kid plays for pda
@12:19 "Regional ODP player". That makes me chuckle. ODP is nothing like it once was. I am pretty sure most of the top players don't even bother with ODP anymore. I am not dismissing whether or not this player is actually good. Rather just stating that putting Regional ODP next to her name means hardly anything these days.
@12:19. Should NEFC and the PA Strikers match-up, do you think both sides will go all out to win? This is a showcase event and should be treated as such. Winning should be secondary. These teams play plenty of other events where winning is necessary, this shouldn't be one of them.
The GOAl is to win That's why they call it a goalllll!You showcase yourself by helping your team winGoal Get it
Girls I don't care if we win or lose just look goodPass the dutchy on the left hand side
Match fitI remember that debacle Don't get me started Poorly run org
my parents pay me when I get a goal, if my team wins, it is nice too
@ 5:55 You should at least check the standings before stating their ecnl team is sucky. They are in overall first place in the northeast conference, coming off a lopsided 4-1 result vs FC Stars. It’s still somewhat early but we’ll keep an eye on them. It’s only the second year of the team’s existence. As far as Holmdel breaking up or any other team for that matter, who is more responsible for breaking up a good team, the clubs or the parents?
@602, OR maybe the admin is a PDA coach
I beg to differ, regional ODP certainly does mean something. Maybe not as compelling as before ECNL, but on the girl's side, especially at younger ages, it means something. As far as participation of better players , check the spreadsheet which lists players' accomplishments:https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AriynKqmGsRwdGUyR1ZrSFFUbHFZblNCMnBNZnNqc1E&output=html&gid=5If you weren't in Boca Raton, you didn't see the coaches lined up on the sidelines. NEFC, TopHat, PA Strikers, and even PDA, FC VA, Bethesda and other ECNL teams have participants. In socal its Legends Carlsbad and again heavy ECNL participation. They definitely get a few wrong based on the 500 kids at tryout situation, the few nepotism and political assignments, but to make the team is an accomplishment still. Unless the kid has already been id'd into the national program, ODP remains a good vehicle for exposure to college and the national teams. Amina (sp?) Ekic, from Kentucky was id'd at ODP and became the darling of the U17NT this February. But don't let the facts get in the way of your disparagement.
@814 in the US, girls soccer is a middle class game. pay for play. If ID'ing top players is the goal, the current methods will surely fail. If coaches could be trusted, players would be emerging based on multiple recommendations from all these games they play. Instead you pay to go to an event and get evaluated on limited minutes. Making any "all star" team is clearly an achievement, but the end product will only be as good as the original inputs.I will say this, the ECNL has been painted as the big bad wolf and the NPL teams as the little engines that could-MYTH. I beleive that if you put Tophat, NEFC , legends in to the ECNL pool you would soon see that playing against well organized teams with good coaches week in week out is not straightforward. If you look at the NE conference Metro Div- any team is capable of beating any other team in that division. The coaches know who they have to stop and they are well organized.The top NPL teams would fit in nicely, but would find the competition is very tough indeed.
I believe that ECNL pay to play system is skewed in some areas and good for whoever makes the best out of it. Just because you pay a lot of money for a program, does not make it an ELITE performance organization. It is possible that it is ELITE from a dollars and cents perspective…..only the “haves” can afford ECNL…..so they better be “Organized”. Obviously, if you are paying top dollar for anything, you should be able to demand things to be organized. ECNL has a great business model. I am probably being passive aggressive. My opinion, most if not all of the top ECNL teams could not compete with a USYS National League team like NEFC, TopHat, PA Strikers, FC VA on a consistent basis. To the poster - 4/15/15 3:06 – After reading the commit comment about the PA Strikers prior to your post. If you were to take a poll from most girls playing soccer, aside from enjoying the sport of soccer, their ambition would be to play in college and/or the national team. I believe that if a college, that is on the players radar, approaches a player with a great offer, without violating some type of NCAA rule, they would jump at the chance to commit. Why wouldn’t you take that opportunity? I do agree that a 15 year old girl may not know what she wants in the next 2-3 years but I would go out on a limb here and say…..she probably has adults in her life (ie: Parents, Coach) helping with this decision. Again, my opinion, commit if you can, secure that college money if you can. 8:14 - Regarding ODP, I agree with you.
Which is better, be the best player on a weak ECNL team (Penn Fusion in our age group) or the 6-12th player on a Champions league team?
@ 9:43I don’t know the specifics of the exact teams you are referring to so I’ll give an opinion based on generalizations.As far as development goes, I would prefer my kid to play on the higher level team as a lower level starter then top third of a lower level team. But… it might be more fun for my kid to be top third, VIP on a slightly lower level team. Based on that I would let my kid make the decision with little to no input from me.
@9:43 - Big difference between 6th & 12th. 6th of course means your a starter while 12 means your riding the bench. I think the end of U15 or start of U16 is a little late to be trying to figure that stuff out. My suggestion is to stay put, but you should look at other factors such as cost, distance, and coaching. There are some really bad Champions League teams also. So your question is way too vague to give a definitive answer.
@925 World Class routinely beat all the teams you mentioned. I think NEFC beat them once. Clearly that roster has changed over the last 2 years, but I think you vastly underrate the top ECNL teams. In terms of committing, the money can seem attractive, but if the goal is to get a good education and prepare for life, i would rather my kid made the decision when a bit more mature to do so, as opposed to now. I understand that everyone is different. If your child is a great, sought after player now, surely injury aside, she will be in a year?@943 I dont think Penn Fusion are a weak team and numbering players makes no sense at all. How do you determine your ranking?
This is hypothetical for discussion( as if it is really clear what the player rank order is) but which player, assuming they play the same position, gets more and better college interest: The top player for Penn Fusion or the 8th player for Continental? Top Player for Penn Fusion or 8th player from PDA.Is there some stigma associated with playing for a weak team? Is there a boost if a kid wears the letters? Can standing out among a weak field of players help the kid get noticed? Or will the weak players fail to be able to generate a rhythm and flow that might bring out the best qualities in a player/
@1145 In my experience, the qualities that define a really top class player shine through irrespective of who they are playing with or against.
A top 25 coach told me that it is absolutely important to see a player playing against top competition to be able to get a feeling for the player's ability to play D1. It is less important who she is play with. However the level of the team will often dictate the level of the competition. So if that's a commonly held opinion, then it would seem that any ECNL team would support any player's ambitions. Similarly a National league team also clearly hits the mark. It might be grayer when it comes to many NPL teams and USYSA champions league teams since the competition can be inconsistent. Probably also holds if a team can make it into the top few flights at major tournaments like PDA,Jeff cup, CASL, Disney, Surf and Vegas
If a kid is not a top third of the top area team type player, is she even a top 25 NCAA team type player?
That's an interesting question. I know a kid who didn't even start and only played a half a game on an ECNL team in FL. Yet she got top 25 inquiries after the event. Its a little technical kid. So in that case the club coach's ranking was inconsistent with the college coaches ranking.
Quickstrike FC announces 2015-2016 tryouts.The Hudson Valley's Premier soccer club. Located in Lower NY State, a short drive from North Jersey.Teams are NPL and NYCSL members. Highly ranked State, Regional and Nationally ranked.Tryout Dates and TimesU10, U11, U12,U13, U14 Boys/ Girls5/5 6:00-7:30pm5/12 6:30-8:00pm5/19 6:00-7:30pmU15,U16,U17,U18 Boys/Girls5/5 7:30-9:00pm5/12 8:00-9:30pm5/19 7:30-9:00pmLocation Mt. Airy Sports Complex660 Mt. Airy RoadNew Windsor NY 12553Questions? Info@quickstrikefc.com
Freehold lost 3-1 today in state cup game?
Freehold won 3-1
State cup scores please
SOUTH JERSERY BARONS MOVES ON
Would love to see SJEB take NJ Cup, they are a strong team with good coaching.
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