It's not the money, take away the perception that the "best" kids have to be at an ECNL club, and PDA's just another club. There are a lot of other NPL and next level down options. The lack of success coming from the other clubs in PDA has shown that there is nothing special in PDA attracting kids. One would think that with the "best" youth coaching and the draw of PDA for good players they should should be performing much better than they do. Or just maybe, the coaching is no better than anywhere else maybe even worse and the PDA name is not that strong. I actually think all the negatives around false promises and carrots constantly being dangled for kids has actually damaged their reputation for the non-ECNL teams.
11:46 Very good points. Playing at PDA for non-ECNL gets your daughter very little. Good example is NEWSS were various PDA non- Ecnl teams are playing in relatively low U15 brackets. PDA is aware of the talent on these teams and places them accordingly. On the flip side you have numerous other academies in top Showcase brackets playing the ECNL teams. Rowdies, Manhattan, Quickstrike, YMS, Stallions and others getting much more exposure by not being at PDA. Why wear the 3 letters when you can get better exposure and competition elsewhere?
As a parent, you have choices and make decisions based on what you want as opposed to what you need. That's with everything in life, some choose to drive that $60,000 car that gets you to the same place the $10,000 car gets you, that's your choice. Would I be wrong in telling you that you don't need that car and you are foolish for buying or leasing it? It's all a choice that we are entitled to make. I'm sure PDA doesn't force anyone to pay for them, the ones that do, do it because they want to for whatever reason. Colleges offer full scholarships to some, partial to others and nothing to some as well, is it really going to matter to you you which kid the college is giving full, partial or nothing to when you choose to send your kid there? Will you have to guts to ask the coach what he is giving to each kid, of course you won't! Remember, when you start that $60,000 car up today, you could have saved $50,000 on something less expensive and would have gotten to your destination just the same.. but you chose not to, does that make you a fool?
No that doesn't make you a fool, a hard working person should be able to decide how to spend their money and what benefits they receive. What does make you a fool is coming on to this blog and somehow arguing as people often do on this blog that there is something special about the training, coaching, and draw of the PDA name somehow makes your decision better than mine when the reality is that beyond the ECNL club which has a much wider drawing audience than most other clubs because of the ECNL. Outside of the ECNL, you have a club that is no better or worse than many other clubs, and it's not just this age group, it is across many age groups.
It still comes down to a persons choice, there are people who think IPHONE is the BEST phone on earth, there are some that don't.. doesn't make either one wrong! You said it doesn't make you a fool to buy the expensive car if you work hard to get it, if you work hard to earn your money, why does it make you a fool to spend it on PDA tuition for your child if that's what you choose to do. It's all a choice! Where and who does your child play for? It is your choice to have them play there, correct? What you think is best for you may not be best for someone else but.. you are allowed to like what you like and so are others.I'm sure there are people around you who do not like things about you or things you buy,wear etc.. at the end of the day as long as you like it, it doesn't matter! That's a conversation most adults have with their kids, it's a shame you have to have it on this forum with an adult. To be so concern with other kids teams and clubs is a bit concerning if you ask me, I'm sure the are many of us who look at different tournaments and results to see who is doing what but to come on here and speak on it is shallow on your part. Allow people to spend their money the way they want and let it go. Some wonder why some kids are the way they are, it all starts at home. If your child is happy where she plays.. great! Others are happy where they play also.. let it go!
I agree with your personal choice comment, I'm mostly agreeing with you, however, what I am critical of is how people come on here and denigrate others who are not at PDA or a like club. It's your personal choice, fine, but this was the quote of someone just a few days ago and I can find more from this blog if you'd like,"The point wasnt who "developed" her its that she recognized the value in the better exposure a top player can receive at a more well known club. The daddy coaches dont develop anyone. The kids who advance are getting the training elsewhere and most often paying for it." So people come on and are critical of those who do not choose the big academy, that also is a personal choice. Iphone, Galaxy, HTC, enjoy your phone, but don't come on here and tell me that your phone is so much better when you struggle to beat those same daddy coaches or teams that have part time professional coaches helping out.I don't believe that PDA's benefit to the non-ECNL player is marginal at best and and the tournament and playing history supports it.
Shallow? One just has to look in the mirror. When you are consistently putting your club in tournaments that they shouldn't be in just to beat up on lesser competition, or you get yourself in lower brackets in tournaments to protect your team, that is what I call shallow. When you play in a conference where only a couple of teams are competitive, yeah I do think you are misleading yourself as to how good your environment is Some people make a personal choice to drive 5 hours and beat up on teams 6-0 some don't.
You are fooing yourself if you think these teas are asking tournaments to place them in lower brackets to be successful.. it's not so much the wins vs losses also.. there is a huge picture you are missing.. crazy thing is, your debating with a parent who's kid doesn't play for PDA, I don't believe I ever mentioned that. I am generally speaking, your gonna have one of those people who gloat and think what they have or what they do is always better, I'm sure your know some in your circle like that, everyone has one. Don't paint with such a wide brush is all I'm saying..
Please enlighten me as to the piece of the picture I'm missing. When you sign up for a tournament, you request a level and a tournament honors where you p;ace yourself or it doesn't . PDA for sure gets their requests to be placed higher or lower honored more than most other clubs. I can't back it up with any hard facts, but I do think that their are some teams that chase easy tournaments to feel good about themselves. Toms River a dew years back made it to No 1 in the country on the back of a lot of tournaments in low brackets, I do know that you can look at quite a few tournaments and wonder what a club is doing there.
Again, don't think those teams are asking to be put in lower brackets, I would really be surprised. I do believe you will see some teams enter tournaments this time of year just to get their team playing after HS season and as warm ups for big tournaments coming up. I'm sure you will not see that come March - June. The bigger picture is.. nobody remembers who was State Champs or #1 in the State when these girls were 11,12,13.. nobody cares.. the big picture is hoping these kids are playing at a high level, at quality showcase tournaments and continuing to develop where or whoever they play for.. let's use CASL as an example, people will tell you that if you are not in the top three brackets of a big tournament, coaches will not come see you, that is completely false! There will be tons of coaches at CASL frim all levels watching all games. I overheard two coaches at Disney talking last year, I know one was D3 and I think other was D2, they said they didn't even bother watching top flights because most of those kids are going to possibly play D1 or high level D2. Not everyone will play D1 but there are plenty of D2 and D3 schools who do watch 4th level and below. It's a fact! Copa played a week tournament last weekend, I would bet it wasn't for points but for a tune up for Newss.. I see nothing wrong with that.. if PDA is wrong having an NPL team then so is every other ECNL Club in the Northeast. It's all a choice people make and I would never tell another parent they are wrong for doing what THEY think is best for THEIR CHILD!I can only make decisions for my own.
I have no issues with it being a free country and people making free choices, but I think you are wrong on teams hand picking places for their teams to be successful.I know that a few years back the team placed thereselves in the second tier state cup. Wow, how fun to win every game 6-0. I have only heard of some of the questionable tournaments the team placed themselves in since. Someone from PDA can comment on some of the tourneys they have entered. It's not for to your team or the other teams you are playing when it's not competitive.
That situation was clearly a mistake on the person who registered them. What tournaments are you referring to?
My PDA TEAM IS BETTER THAN YOUR PDA TEAM!
Clearly a mistake because anyone with any honor wouldnt back out and progress a tournamnent where the games wont be competitive an ruin a tournament for all the other teams playing at the appropriate competitive level. I don't know the other tournaments I have only heard that the team reputation is to pick one easy tournament a ear. Someone from PDA can probably answer what they were. I am sure I can fond out if you are interested.
The DOC of PDA south has no honor, but he has a State Cup champion team on his resume. Also, can you say kirkwood Tournament?
Does it really matter? Again.. I don't have facts on this particular team but, since you know so much about them, look up where they played before Kirkwood and after, it's possible they wanted to cut some expenses for the parents and do a tournament close to home. What is wrong with that? You sound very bitter! In the past, kirkwood hosted good tournaments, every tournament you do should have to require long travel and over night stays. It's not the end of the world. Relax, haven't heard one person speak about Copa winning a weak local tournament last weekend or weekend before, how about all the better teams that compete in the MSSL Summer tournaments. Look at the so called top teas in this age group, look where they got there points from this summer.. if that's what they choose to do, so be it. It's all a choice people make! Reading you post would make one think you are not completely happy with your situation because, people who are happy with their own situation normally don't really care about someone else's.
It's wrong if Copa or any team does it it. To go to a tournament and play teams 3 or 4 levels below your team does no one any good, it's not good for your team and it's not good for the team you are playing. I never see a Copa parent on this blog bragging about how good they are, or it being the only place to play, or the development being better. If you need a tune up, there are tons of teams looking for scrimmages. We've had a few in the lead up to the fall tourneys.
parents do not brag about Copa because they know they ARE the Best! Everyone at Copa has to drink the Kool-Aid, otherwise you're OUT!
Problem is.. everyone on here except 1or2 people are all anonymous. People love to stir the pot, that's with anything. As far as you saying it doesn't help lower level team, I disagree.. i will share a quick experience with you and then I am done. I have an older daughter who's team I coached when she was U11-12, we played in SJGSL 4th-5th division. I couldn't imagine how there could be such a hugh difference in level of play between top division and 4th-5th division in the same age group. I had the privilege of playing a team called the Winslow Tigers, best team in the State and one of the best in the country at that time, destroyed my team! Also played a team from Mt. Laurel, one of the best in the state and country at that time, destroyed my team. Myself and players and parents on my team never knew there was another level of soccer out there until we played those teams, changed my whole perspective on the direction I needed to take with my own daughter as well as her team. It really opened my eyes. There are coaches, parents and kids who don't know there is another level of soccer out there until they face it head on, not always a bad experience and can open people eyes to what else is out there. I am so glad I played those teams because, it opened my eye's. Now my older daughter plays with and competes against players from both of those teams that she couldn't compete with back then. I never knew, I learned from that. Blessing come in many different ways!
No problem playing a tune up lower level tournament.better to play up in age if possible. Copa plays plenty of top tournaments. Maybe they just want to work on new formation or new players.ECNL constantly claim they play non- ECNL tournaments to work on new things.
So just to be clear about PDA teamsA - Gunners EcnlB- Pride NplC- Atletica NplD- Breakers EdpIs this the pecking order and does the A team pay the same as the D team
If you look at Pride's Kirkwood results, they only blew out one team. Looks to me like they were in the right tournament at that time.
I'm in it right now and if I felt there were better options I would do it, but there's not. There's not a lot of fun in driving 4-6 hours to win a game 5-1. The kids aren't dumb either, they get it to.
Why does it matter who pays what? Parents paying it must not mind or they wouldn't pay it. Macy's is more expensive than JC Penny's but people choose to shop at Macy's.. again it's all about choice. If your child doesn't pay for A,B,C or D team, why concern yourself. You are worried about the wrong thing. Get over it!
I don't think your analogy works. You can go to McDonald's or Ruth Chris and say look they both sell meat. JCPenney and Macys target different consumers with different products and when they do have the same product and there is a price difference they will match the price. It is a freedom of choice, but what I think is happening is that you are told or given the promise of a Ruth Chris Steak and when your meal comes out, you are delivered an McDonalds Angus Burger.
A lot of you guys need to cut it out. This blog is becoming an all out PDA thing again. Cmon its obvious where its all if not most of it coming from. No not just Matchfit but Copa as well. Cmon you guys know I know who you are lol lol but thats okay. Because you all know I know what you pay for what you get also so and we all know that you are more than what I pay. As I spoke to you both and laughed about its a choice and people need to chill.....seriously. PDA has I believe 5 teams at this age group and sorry but there is no ABCDE we are one and I know its hurts most of you and will boil your blood but just look at your OWN clubs and I bet they all have multiple teams at this age group and guess what they pay the same as you do being on the "top team" so should we argue that also and I certainly don't hear you saying its unfair to those families. NOPE you haven't said a word. Funny how consistantly inconsistant most of you become lol lol. Most of you still fighting about GOTSOCCER points....SAD so SAD. Eric Harris
Oh Eric, just sit on your ECNL pedastal and leave the B,C, and D teams at PDA alone. We all know it is not one big happy family and it is irritating as hell when you keep preaching it. Saying something over and over again does not make it true!
We may not be one big happy family but we sure pay the same.....
@11:13.. that's your opinion, you said earlier that you are going by what you hear.. do you know what anyone is being promised for a fact. It's easy to bash,bash and bash some more.. Eric Harris is the only guy that can be respected because whethere you like what he says or not, he doesn't hide behind anonymous. Where does your child play? If your going to bash and hide, that says a lot about you! Now that is a coward! No need for it if it doesn't effect you or yours..I'm sure you get the point.. you are just being obnoxious at this point.. let it go!
Eric, I think you are right, but please keep in mind how this discussion started, I'm not sure how it regressed. Sure PDA was the example because There are few clubs that have an ECNL team and other teams. The point that I made was that the ECNL team is a clear draw and has differentiated PDA. Beyond that, I do not believe that anything in the performance of the other teams suggests that there is a benefit of PDA over any other club. It then comes down to personal choice, coach, proximity, etc. There has been a few comments here although igranted it may be 1 or 2 people saying that there are "where else would we go" or that the training and exposure is better. My personal view is that if you can get on an ECNL team than there are clear benefits and the Gunners are the cream of the crop. After that, I don't see any separation from any other team that would suggest any other club is better or worse and then it comes to personal preference. It has to do with PDA only because the Gunners are a different case, but after the Gunners for the larger pool of players, I don't think so. So yeah I agree, it is time to start talking about other topics.
@12:15pm hey listen its not that I disagree with your opinion and say you are WRONG. What I don't like is when people get so tunnel visioned in and can't see anything else but PDA. People do what they want and say what they want but I watched a lot of High School soccer this season and I tell you what not all those girls played at PDA and some of those girls were darn good. Lets be fair and say my view of PDA is Bias and I will say that to anyone that my opinion is bias based on my childrens view of PDA. Believe it or not there are tons of teams in NJ that are worthy of playing for and have great coaches and trainers as I feel PDA have. Those coaches paid or non paid do a fantastic job of developing the kids from New Jersey and the surrounding areas as pa, NY for those kids that make the travel to NJ. List once again and I will say this from a personal point of view from my conversations with families that I talk to. Although we are at PDA and we love our kids playing there we still respect what other clubs are doing because at the end of the day we folks rate the top states in the country NJ is listed in that conversation all the time. I mean I have associates in Florida who actually thought of moving to NJ for SOCCER now tell me how crazy is that. Trust me folks we sit around and argue about this club, that club and the folks from the outside are willing to LEAVE where they are currently......all to get a piece of what we have and in "MY OPINION" there is no better place to play soccer than NJ. You can have your Cali, Flor. Texas, Illinois, Ohio's etc. I take that TRi-STATE over them anyday. Some of you haven't even woke up to the fact that as far as soccer is the State of NEW JERSEY is well represent in COLLEGES, National Teams, Professional teams and guess what not all of them are from PDA so WAKE UP and let the PDA thing go and just worry about your child and if she is playing in NEW JERSEY in my opinion she is going to make it because there is NO BETTER COMPETITION that she will face PERIOD and she will be game tested and climate tested lol lol. Fact is that I am a PDA parent and my kids love it there and I love the fact that they call the place home, but on the flip side I cheer for Matchfit, Copa, Freehold, SJEB, FC Bucks, World Class, Tom River, Holmdel NJX etc. I cheer for all the team because I notice how hard it is for these young ladies to make it and to compete against the best girls in the country week in and week out and still have energy to fight off the crazy adults including myself and STILL........be a great young players as they all are. Eric Harris
12:08 I am going to let the discussion die and leave it to people with direct experience to comment as to whether a carrots have been dangled, but if you are going to call someone out for being anonymous, for the purpose of credibility, maybe you shouldn't do it anonymously.
11/18 @ 7:10, Copa played the MSSL tournament last weekend because a team dropped out at the last minute. They were notified Friday afternoon and several of their players were not even available as they were committed to HS playoffs. It's all about playing. You grab games when you can get them, especially when you are getting ready for CASL and NEWSS. I’m sure they would gladly scrimmage all-comers.
Heard a merger is going to produce another ABGC and FC VA situation and create a giant ECNL roster of mostly outside kids that play in both ECNL and USYSA events? Is that legal? Is it good for the kids?
Yes I heard PDA is merging with all remaining teams in NJ. Will make the first 10,000 player roster. All will pay same amount. All will be promised the possibility to be rostered for ECNL team.
Now that was funny !
Nothing funny about it, I heard one of the 10,000 will be rostered with the ECNL team, attend practices, but rarely ever play.
What's sad is that even with 100 girls, parents would still shell out the PDA fees.
Eric Harris,Do all players, even on the same PDA team, pay the same amount?Let me hear the answer from you sir.DCShore
Why so negative about kids that need scholarships. Do you think it is desirable to be in a position of needing a scholarship to participate? It is an uncomfortable situation. I would hope there is discretion and it is not for everyone to know who needs one.
I all for scholarships at any club but I think the focus on some clubs is about players receiving discounts not based on need but rather perceived ability. I can even accept this but it needs to be above the board.
I cant speak for any one else but how many are really want to accept money unless they really needed it. It ramps up the pressure on the kid.I am very wary of college athletic money for the same reason. Obviously many many families can use the college aid but it comes at a cost. There is already massive pressure in this economic environment to use college as the path to a decent salary. The added weight of having to perform for your athletic money has to shift a significant part of the focus off academics and onto athletics.
The problem with scholarships is that it creates a special tax for every one else, but like our current president, it's not called a tax. I've been at PDA for 3 years and pay because it's been a decent experience for my child but I have seen a $100 increase every year I've been here, I have to raise money for (pay out of pocket) for a soccer marathon for which there is a $400 minimum expectation (it used to be $300), there are individual team fundraisers, and then there is the sense of obligation to attend the PDA camps. I can afford and pay it so it's not a major issue but I can understand the complaints.
I would think it would be no fun at all to play for PDA unless you had the money to pay. Clubs like PDA exist in a rarifed space. If $100 bucks is even on you radar screen why you want to be in that environment?
How are college athletic scholarships not the same sort of special "tax"? Only a few get them but most of the poor slobs there have to pay that tuition bill. Soccer is not generating revenue for the institution.
If you are asking me, I wasn't complaining about the $100, it is what it is. My point is that even be fore travel, you are realistically to paying PDA $750.
@DCShore that is a fair question and a fair answer would be my honest opinion and say I have no clue. More importantly I don't care what other pay and don't pay. I never base my chooses off of $$$$. I base them on the fact that at the end of the day its not a matter of justifying it but more or less do I feel that I made the right choice. Most of the PDA debate has to do with $$$$$ bottomline. If it was all FREE would we be debating or even discussing the PDA. I mean serious there are clubs that kids have to pay $2900 plus tournaments, and plus to have their coaches fly all over and travel here and there, and then tell well call certain parents up on the phone and ask them if they are training with other trainers outside their club and if the know of any other families that are doing it. NOW THATS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT. And guess what they don't even own their own fields. Now one would think that on this board that this is a topic that we could discuss to find out why they do this. But see when those things aren't discussed it only shows me "WHO" is soooooo ANTI-PDA. But I guess no one would want to discuss that with me because they know I KNOW too much and I call out PLENTY of folks...that would make going to practice for plenty not too pleasant. But see I would need do that on this forum because thats never my intentions. See DCShore I know I know you I know this for a fact. Personally....probably not but I bet I have seen you or even said hello. The fact that you have to remain unknown is sad because believe it or not and people can say what they want but I think you know your stuff and I think you could take this age group of parents to a whole different level with your insight and debatable topics and questions but instead you remain so stuff on this ANTI-PDA and how much money that get and don't get. Cmon we gotta be better than this DCShore.....Eric Harris
10:36 There is no equivalence between a soccer club and a university. University's operate with endowments, have departments dedicated to fundraising, and in the revenue generating universities, the revenue is shared across the athletic department and university. If there is a tax, it is embedded in the tuition. At a University do you do not see the students en mass either funding out of pocket or hawking advertisements for a golf outing or a soccer marathon to fund fields and scholarships. It would be all well and good if it were voluntary, but the reality is that people are told pretty strongly what their fundraising expectation is. Eric, I agree with you that no one should be put in a situation to divulge whether they receive economic money and if it were me I'm not sure that it would even be relevant for me to discuss with my child. On the whole though, people have the right to know how much of the PDA budget goes to fundraising. DC Shore, you can legally during normal business hours go and inspect PDAs books. As a 501C3 they must show them to you, if they didn't or they would not be able to maintain tax exempt status.
People discuss the money issue because it is a BIG issue. Kids without it are at a big disadvantage. Why should it not be discussed?
I understand that "THE MONEY" is the big issue and without it yes I will say and agree with you that a lot of children will be left in the dark. That is a FACTUAL statement but PDA is not the only club that has a tuition, club fee, ect whatever they want to call it. Every club has it. Believe it or not there are clubs that are more expensive than PDA how about we discuss that. I am willing to start the topic. So for the soccer gurus what are some of the prices out there rumored to be true with other clubs or organization. I know Matchfit is $2900 from several of people on Matchfit that pay that amount so I can assume that its true. Any others. Eric Harris
Match Fit vs. PDA is splitting hairs. The players at both will come out with a quality education in the game of soccer. (they better since this is their tax exempt "contribution" to society) Most families can not afford either.
Eric,I don't say this often and although I choose to remain anonymous, on this one we mostly agree. There are quite a few clubs in NJ that slap an academy name on, hire a few "professional" coaches and justify fees in excess of $2000, even though they are playing in lower cost local tournamements, and play in local leagues like SJGSL CJTSL that do not require the coaches travel costs.Ultimately it comes down to the product. You can certainly argue that relative to many clubs PDA is a tremendous value considering where you get to play (tournaments and leagues) and whether people like it or not part of the product is the door opening that the club name brings you. There is certainly a very good ECNL product whether by recruiting or development, kids are pretty much guaranteed high level competition day in and day out. The rest of the teams like you say are at least on par cost wise with other clubs. Anyone who does their homework knows that this is a pricey sport (rightly or wrongly so) in most places you play. Any clubs that have full time coaches as opposed to clubs that hire a coach to ocassionally help out will have a high cost base.Of the issues that I have raised about PDA on this board cost is not one of them and there are much more egregious gouging going on in soccer.
Through you remain anonymous doesn't mean what you say has no merit or value. Its doesnt mean that your view is right or wrong. You choose to be anonymous because you have right to be and although I poke fun at those that do post anonymous I have to say I value each and everyone of you because I learn from you all and regardless if I have the same opinion or not as you I value what you say because its a chance that I can learn something. The poster @12:20pm I would say you are right and yes its splitting hairs if you are on the outside looking in to both of these clubs. Then it becomes a choice and that has to be based on what you as a family value or look at as value. Are there great kids at Matchfit. Heck yeah and they are getting more and more everyday and year. Are there great kids at PDA yep you bet your bottom there are and they are getting them also everyday and year. Now what I will say is that I am sure they offer assistance to whoever needs it. I think both clubs do it and although it may go unseen and untold thats the beauty of it because it should be sold as everybody pays the same. That way you take the entitlement part out of it by saying "WELL I PAY THIS and YOU PAY THAT" so I deserve more for my kid. Just imagine that. I applaud both of these organizations because at the end of the day they are trying to develop young student atheletes in my opinion. Eric Harris
I don't know how much assisntnce these clubs provide. In my view, if they are operating as non-profit institutions with a social mission they should be offering financial assistance. Many of the players seem to be ultimately trying to access scholarships from non-profit instiitutions of higher learning when they leave the soccer club. Another poster saw little relationship between soccer clubs and universities but in my view there are some equivalencies. They are both afforded non profit status for their education and social mission....granted tehe soccer clubs mission has a narrow focus. Whether they fund raise through their membership or through a staffed department seems partly a matter of scale. Also not sure if any soccer have endowments - some have some very wealthy patrons.But on the most basic level, why is athletic ability worthy of a scholarship from one and not the other? It is because at the club level, you may be called upon to help provide a child a scholarship whereas at the college level your child will get to receive one?
@11:49 AMYes, i know I can look at the books but I don't have to. I know of the PDA "scholarship" program. It's a rig for the most part. A few genuine hardships but MORE often than not, an enticement to collect stronger players that they can "develop". The FACT is they collect no real financial information from the parents nor are parameters officially published. In this way they can dump & run if need be.@Eric Harris"Cmon we gotta be better than this DCShore.....Eric Harris"Eric, I barely have gotten my trousers off. The fact that you are not the last bit curious about things of this nature relegates you to the side lines. How can you possibly argue/defend/attack a topic you admit yourself to not know "anything" about?The PDA "Scholarships" are another ruse and marketing tool. YES, there are exceptions. Exception I know about personally. But there are also abuses. Abuses I know about personally.As far as anonymity goes...that's how I roll. Even my checks are made out to the name I like best, CASH.DCShore
@DCShore....see that where you have me wrong and mistaken. See I'm playing the game and it's you that is sitting there in awe of my work. See I happen to know that you are involved with Match fit as a coach or something higher. You being this guy who claims that he knows it all I dangle the carrot right in front of your face with facts about what they do and what you do but instead of bringing your knowledge and wisdom and oh let's not forget understanding..you ignore Match fit because you are here to protect what they do but hey no longer will I sit here and let it ride you already what I am about and how I roll. You are hypocritical of your own words because the dislike of PDA grows soooooo deep in your soul that it kills you that I know who you are and you could never face me and speak any words of what you do is right and you are in it for the kids. You are right about one thing partner.......CASH is what your about but just so that you know......in the upper left hand corner of that check your writing.......it has you name you fool lololol...Eric Harris
@Eric Harris"See I happen to know that you are involved with Match fit as a coach or something higher. "--->That's a classic sentence. Are you telling me or asking me? The rest of what you wrote is drivel. DCShore
Eric Harris,Quit embarrassing yourself, the players, the team and the organization.Thanks,Thomas Anderson
DCShore I would ask you something that I didn't know already. Eric Harris
DCShore and Eric Harris, Can't we all just get along?Anyone have any thoughts on NEWSS? One of few times ECNL and non-ECNL are allowed to co-mingle. Gunners are the favorite but anyone willing to venture an upset?Anyone think the new Albertson and World Class teams are ready for prime time? Must say I am looking forward to this tournament more than any in awhile. Hope the weather cooperates. Majority of games for both showcases at same fields.
If things play out anything like they did towards the end of the Spring season, I can't see any real challenge to the Gunners in the Top Bracket, I would have liked to see the Arsenal from PAW in the top bracket. From my limited knowledge of seeing them play a few times they are a good team that compete. I think the second bracket is more interesting and should be very competitive. I think there are 4 or 5 teams that could come out the winner of that bracket.
Anonymity is the point!Through out history it has embolding people to say things without fear of reprisals.EH because people know who you are you will never be able to complete say what you think.Of course you will deny this , but we all no its the truth. I think the rowdies win the tournament this weekend in hammonton.
See thats where you are wrong. I always say what I exactly think and feel. I don't need to hide that from anyone. I am human and for one I know I not always right but certainly thats life and you learn and you continue to live. There is nothing for me to deny and if you are meaning next weekend I will tell you my daughter feels that they will never lose a game. For me does it really who wins....not really. I dont play my kids do. I'm just excited to see all the girls out there working hard and see how much the girls have developed since we all last seen each other. When you look at the age group there are some really good teams and games that will be played over that weekend. Win or Lose I am sure some adult will be on here tearing down some 13,14 or 15 year old kid or kids. Thats the only said part about it. The whole Albertson and World Class thing makes things more interesting from the stand point that most people will be seeing them for the first time in this new era for both teams. I think the Showcase White bracket is also a very good one with Freehold, Copa, and ISA. That is going to be a tough win for all those teams. I have not seen Quickstrike play but from what I read they are pretty good I guess so also those are some good games being that you have Smithtown down there. Overall I think the brackets are pretty mixed with great teams and although some will complain I think the tournament did a good job on getting teams in and placing them against other good competition. Eric Harris
Somewhat related many of you may have seen this recent article concerning Bayern Munich's partnership with GPS in the U.S.: http://www.socceramerica.com/article/61636/bayern-makes-its-move.htmlThe following paragraphs caught my attention- "Regardless of whether they have something valuable to offer American players or coaches, I’m hard-pressed to believe that foreign clubs coming here are motivated by a desire to help America children. I just cannot imagine their executives fretting about U.S. player development and saying to their coaches, “We’ve got to help the Americans!”More likely, the motivation comes from the knowledge that the U.S. market is the low-hanging fruit of the global soccer industry. They've gotten wind of the fact that Americans will pay $150 to watch preseason scrimmages between big European teams without their stars. They heard we'll spend $5,000, even $10,000 a year on our child's soccer."Somewhere PT Barnum is blushing. DCShore
PDA Shore Breakers lost to South Jersey Barons 3-0 ouch!!!!PDA Pride beat this team two times in the past!!
Lets talk about the RUSH organization and that great display of "DEVELOPMENT" in ALL age groups today. WOW!!!!! keep up the good work DOC.
Sounds like someones kid got cut from Rush, so let pick on them next. Get a life, it's a fall tournament with minimal time for practice. WHO CARES what anyone did today. It's innocent girls just playing soccer and shaking the cob-webs off.
says the loser.
5:04 What's your beef with the Rush, it's kids competing on a weekend. Neither were a top 5 or even top 10 team. Both team lost players. Both Rush teams lost their better players to other teams, one of the teams had a change of coach. Seems to me that it is a couple of teams trying to build/rebuild something.
@439 You seem bitter How did your kid do this weekend?
PDA Pride parents don't get too many chances to brag....
Beating SJEB is nothing to brag about.
PDA Breakers have been a decent team and finished last season pretty good,I know they were missing a couple key players yesterday due to HS State finals, not making any excuses for them but, they SHOULD begin to play better ball as time goes on. Not a parent but have seen them play several times.
No one cares what you pay. the push back comes form the implication that the $$$ is not a factor and even if it were out of the equation, the roster would be unchanged.On the boys, side, when the $$$$ is removed from the equation at the free academies, the roster does change. What is the credible argument explaining why the same would not be experienced on the girls' side.
Freehold over PDA again!
CASL was great coaches everywhere even for U15 great games region 1 is respectable. Makes me wonder if ECNL is necessary if your kids team can get to national league or at least top 2 flights of national level tournaments
Congrats!Freehold Celtics win over PDA Shore Breakers!!
Ok, we heard this about Freehold/PDA.Did anyone actually watch the game though?Curious as to how each team played given the amount of High School both teams have been exposed to. I was close to being able to make it to the games yesterday but was a little under the weather.DCShore
Looks like NJ teams have some work to do after CASL this weekend. Kudos to the many Non-ECNL teams who took the majority of top flight first place positions. Imagine if the National league teams were not separated. ECNL teams must be scratching heads and wondering what happened.
@9:28 MF was the only NJ ECNL team playing at CASL, and yes they lost 3 games. Looks like they were flighted too high. Copa played next bracket and came in 2d place per standings. The PA teams playing top 2 flights both came in 3rd place. Am I missing something? Why are you trying to pick on NJ.
This was not a knock on NJ teams just pointing out the need for more work. Was really meant as a statement of ECNL vs Non- ECNL. Was it being too critical? I don't think so as the ECNL toots their horn everyday on this site. Get me now?
Did MATCHFIT ECNL lose all three games this weekend, That is embarrassing .
Not sure how other teams were affected but YMS and Penn Fusion were missing quite a few kids either because they were at the ODP interregional at Boca Raton or they were playing up to fill out the older teams' rosters. Older teams were getting most of the looks and it was a win win for the kids. I don't know exactly how many were missing but at least 4 starters including YMS keeper.
FC Virginia goes 0-2-2 over the weekend in their split squad games. Losing both National League games and tying two very winnable ECNL matches. So was sacrificing the 4 ECNL points in the overall standings worth it? Looks like they placed more importance this weekend in the US Youth Soccer National League games.
So just to support that there is still a lot of quality soccer outside of the ECNL, the ECNL teams went 4-9-2 against non-ECNL teams at CASL in the NL & Elite brackets. Not attempting to say ECNL is not a great place for your daughter, just thought the results were interesting. Now I know if PDA, World Class, of FC Stars had played it probably would have been significantly different. Just shows there still is considerable drop off from top to bottom in ECNL. While many ECNL teams still not deserving of their placement. If you took the top 77 or so teams from outside ECNL, you would probably find more parity top to bottom than what you get in ECNL.
11:43 who cares? There are plenty of great "non" ECNL teams and plenty of great ECNL teams. What's important is that your kid is having fun and playing at a level where they are being challenged. I will say that I saw a number of games at CASL all in the top bracket where our team played and every team I saw was good. Most were non ECNL.
The FC VA "A" roster was in NC. They definitely respect the national league more than the ECNL.FC VA lost to Penn Strikers 1-0. For region one it seems Penn Strikers were most successful at CASL: 2-1-1. Losing the first game and improving results each day. Currently third in the red division and top 2 go to nationals. Given the improving results, seems like the fall high school season might be a disadvantage in some states like PA.
11-24 4:16 - People are interested in seeing non-ECNL teams successful because as has been discussed often on this site a view that if kids want to be playing at the highest levels with the highest exposure. Seeing non-ECNL being successful especially against ECNL clubs dispels the myth that if you are not in the ECNL then your soccer future is not as good.
What is a "soccer future"? get real. The best female player in the entire state is unlikely to have much of a a "soccer future". Have fun playing a game and then grow up and get yourself to grad school.All of these teams and leagues are fine. Neither ecnl or some other league is ever going to put a roof over your daughter's head.
"They heard we'll spend $5,000, even $10,000 a year on our child's soccer."DCShore
You may see soccer future differently than I do. But my daughter wants to play in college. She is under no illusion that she will be playing at UNC, but if she is going to play in college and if soccer can help her get into a college that is above where she would have gotten into otherwise, than indirectly, yes, I do think that soccer can play some part in my kid's future.
I suppose if it can raise the academic quality of her education in a significant way (stress on significant) then if might influence her future. Dollar wise, unless it was a very robust offer, would not give it too much credence.Soccer should low on the list when deciding on a college, major and career path. Sure many would enjoy and be assets to their college teams. I would very careful of counseling a kid to commit to a college team. Dilutes the focus from where it should be in my opinion. If I want to be a good parent, I better hit her with a big dose of reality about what she needs to accomplish in college.
Some people on here are looking at scores of showcases. I guess the scores show a little bit about where the team may be at but, I'm thinking coaches are getting all players somewhat equal minutes to showcase everyone on the roster as opposed to winning the game. Wins and losses are less relevant. Showcases don't have finals or any playoff structure for a reason. But I guess with some people, it will always be about wins and losses.What I would be most interested to know is which colleges are watching what teams.
9:12Most coaches play everyone on the team regardless of it being a showcase or not. The biggest difference is how much time you actually see. Our coach plays to win the games but certainly understands winning is not everything. The biggest determining factor as to the time you see on the field (after actual ability) is how hard you are willing to work. No matter how good you might be if you are not working hard our coach gets you off the field quickly. As far as coaches (scouts) watching the games I saw a few at the Bethesda tourney and a couple at CASL. The only one I could see for sure was a VA Tech guy, the others were on the other side of the field and could not see them. Might have been more at the U16 games.
At Casl in about a middle flight I saw Navy, st Joseph and Maryland coaches. There were a couple obvious coaches I did not know. Monday I received and email from a d1 college inviting my daughter to a "camp" that is 6 hrs long in December. It's 9 hrs from home. While the school is famous for football and basketball I have no idea about there women's soccer program. My feelings are she is 15 we will wait. Idk maybe everyone at the tournament got the same email. She was excited though.
The coaches you see at games are usually there because a player on the team is interested in attending that school and playing for them. On occasion you will see coaches (or more like assistants) watching and making "cold-call emails" if their player profile doesn't indicate the player is committed. But most often a coach is watching because they were contacted about a player's interest. If you want coaches to come, start having your club coach talk to the college coach.
Sure it's an early season tournament and players are rusty, that is true for all teams, but it seems time to stop anointing the Gunners as the best team in the region. Council Rock and WC seem to have gotten off to a good start.
Saw alot of very average soccer this weekend at NEWSS as the ECNL teams looks no different than non ECNL teams. Any team in the 2 showcase brackets could beat the other. No team has any reason to put themselves on a pedestal. Parity reigns.
Officiating at NEWSS was pretty awful. Actually saw a ref allow a substitution on goalie punt. Also saw a official blow half whistle while ball was in air on corner kick.
@3:14PMAverage in which way? Which teams did you see play?I'm trying to get a good picture of what you saw.Please do not just recite results.Thank you,DCShore
Average in the respect that teams were not sharp and no team was dominate. Saw both showcase brackets and could not identify any of the teams as being a step above the others. Clearly Rowdies are not the same anymore,PDA did not seem to be sharp . Stallions are in need of more quality players, no depth. World Class has a few top notch players from last year but not much else. Albertson looked very good a times but needs alot more players. Santos was missing several players to injury, key defender. It appears the talent is spread among about 10 teams in the area. Both bracket winners were from PA, good for them but they did not dominate. If you put all 16 teams in one bracket I would venture a guess and say that you would see alot of 8-7 records. Lets see what happen in Florida at the various tournaments.
Teams not being particularly sharp this time of year is understandable at this age. At least in my opinion.DCShore
Seems advantageous to have parity. Leads to good competition without having to travel all over creation to find it.
3:14 - It is difficult to say that there was no difference between ecnl and non ecnl teams, especially where it matters (the top flight). There was one ECNL team in Bracket A (they won it) and 3 ECNL teams in Bracket B (they finished 1,2,3.) The final was 2 ECNL teams. To me this shows the top ECNL teams continue to dominate the age group.
3:14 - There where 6 games in the top flight where ECNL teams played non ecnl teams. ECNL teams won all 6. Not one of the NON ECNL teams could even manage a tie against an ECNL team. Parity in dreamland.
ECNL certainly won all the games vs Non-ECNL but i did not see much domination. I still see a fine line between the 2 levels. What I do see is the ECNL teams have a few more top players on each team. Again the difference is not enough to concede that ENCL is far superior. As ECNL parents do you feel strongly about you teams going into the new season? If you are pleased with your results I would be surprised. Good luck in Florida.
Speaking of non ECNL teams- where do the Strikers fit into the hierarchy. Haven't played an ECNL team for years. Last lost to Bucks at state cup. Did ok in National league. Where do the National league teams stack up against the ECNL teams?
No doubt that Strikers,Top Hat, Legends could all compete well with ECNL teams. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Have seen all of them play.
And the ecnl team in second flight didn't win a game. Probably wrong NPL teams in top flight.
Strikers have topped FCV ECNL/NPL twice already this fall. FCV's system is convoluted, but you could characterize those two results as wins over an ECNL team without too much difficulty. And FCV remains atop their ECNL division (though it is a pretty soft collection of teams overall).And Bethesda ECNL and McLean ECNL both failed to reach the final in the top bracket at the Bethesda tourney a couple of weeks ago. Non-ECNL teams (from OH and PA) faced off in the final.
Strikers tied the Solar Chelsea B team in national league. A team is at top of table in the Texas ECNL. That fact that a B team is in the national league alone tells you where the national league is compared to ECNL
For ever Solar in the ECNL there is an East Meadow level team, wouldn't you agree? And yes I have looked at the various ECNL leagues throughout the country.ECNL would be smart to eliminate half the teams if they want to use the word 'Elite' in the league name.
Yes I agree that the ECNL should relegate some of the weaker teams to the NPL and promote some of the better non ECNL teams such as Strikers, NEFC, TopHat, Legends, Carlsbad, etc to make the league as competitive as possible but try and keep the travel to a realistic amount.However, my comment was a testament to the impact of the ECNL when even the national league is populated by an ECNL B team. The region 1 league similarly included b teams last year. I am not saying its a good thing at all for girls soccer, only that the ECNL has clearly impacted the quality of the national league.
Region 1 did not have a single ECNL B team in the 16 team U14 Bracket last year.
ECNL is overblown. Great marketing though.Same with NPL.Open up the Leagues...watch what happens! Better for US Soccer...more opportunities for many other girls!It would reduce the overall cost of soccer for players/parents but could still provide some very special (truly special) moments.How's the current mess working out for our National teams?I already know some clubs/leagues are getting rich. BIGGER and BIGGER balance sheets, salaries, and oh yeah one more team with a full staff. "They heard we'll spend $5,000, even $10,000 a year on our child's soccer."DCShore
554 you are mistakenRegion 1 league last year included CFC Arsenal which is the B team to the ECNL team called CFC United. The CFC club well understands at tryouts that the best kids are funnelled to the unitied teams after the ECNL ages.Further my comment on B teams in rgion 1 wasn't intended to be limited to ECNL B teams. The NEFC B team (premier) played region 1 last year not their A team (Elite)A testement of the times with the best teams scattered across too many leagues to provide consistent competition for the best players.
It is a market driven situation and the customers seem to be supporting a big variety of teams of leagues. It is driven as much by money as by the ability and location of the players.Now there are options beyond the immediate local area for good players that want to pursue them and pay for them.
The uber competitive top level is in for some frustration because it is difficult to consolidate them in one place and they could benefit from playing with and against other uber soccer stars. Income disparity, transportation availability, scheduling conflicts are all road blocks to gathering together a top team. But oh well, of all the challenges to face, not having the perfect soccer team is insignificant.
QuestionIf your child is one of the top 5 players (assuming that a rank order is definable)on her team, the team at least plays region1 and top flight at Jeff cup, CASL, NEWSS etc, is not unhappy with the coach or the kids, would you try and get her on an equidistant ECNL team? Does it make a difference if she is a regional ODP player? Does it matter if her team is poised to play in the national league next year?
Only consider it if she is clearly the top dominant player on the team.
If she would make a competitive ECNL team and would get playing time you are putting her in the best possible position for recruitment. If she is going to play for one of the non-competitive ECNL teams at this age group (Continental, East Meadow) she may be better playing top flight with her current team at show case tournaments. The weaker ECNL teams will not make ECNL nationals or play against other strong ECNL teams at the regional tournaments. If you name the ECNL team you are considering I could answer your question.
PDA, FC Bucks and Penn Fusion under consideration.
Also possibly match fit though a little further than bucks and PDA but about the same as penn fusion
Daughter moved to one of the teams mentioned . I think PDA, FC Bucks, and Penn Fusion are good choices. We didn't consider Matchfit so cant give you opinion. All 3 coaches responded to an email. 2 of the teams invited us to practice. Email the coaches and go watch them play. They are all playing against each other soon. Good Luck.
The answer to the question lies in what your objective is. Sounds like your daughter is happy with her coaching and team. If playing and having fun is the objective then why move? If the objective is a D1 school with a scholarship, then the question is whether your daughter will be a top 5 kid on an ECNL club. You daughter will potentially go from top 5 to top 20-25 with something to prove. Then you need to ask how willing will your coach be to also pick up the phone and talk to a college coach. In my experience with a daughter who plays D3 is that nothing is more important in getting your daughter soon and getting a college coaches attention than an enthusiastic club coach supporter irrespective of the club. If your daughter is interested in playing in college at a D3 level, then I'd say, enjoy the time you have left in soccer. Your daughter realistically has 7 years of competitive soccer left. D3 or D1 will be a battle and a grind the first few years because you will have an underclassman competing for 30+ roster spots. Also, there is the view of big fish little sea or little fish in a big sea and where your daughter will be happiest. Sounds like she's the big fish right now, would she be happy as the little fish.
12:29 - You are correct - The objective of what you want from soccer should drive where you play. I do not think that you need to be a top 5 player on an ECNL team to get a D1 scholorship. For example , The top 5 players on PDA will easily get D1 scholorships, the number will probably be 14 or 15 players. The coaches of the ECNL teams will be calling college coaches and pushing for all players. The number of players they get playing at the highest college level is what justifies the $!!! The objective doesn't have to be college to play ECNL. The objective may be as simple as wanting to test herself at the highest possible level of soccer. There is no simple answer, it is a different answer for each player. I will agree, if the player is happy, loving the game, and her current team can help her reach her objective it doesn't make any sense to move.
Does it make sense for this kid to try ODP and see if she makes the regional pool? If so is the exposure there? Worried primary team won't get as much exposure and kid has high (possibly not realistic) college aspirations- ACC PAC10 . How do you know if the aspirations of the kid are realistic? No sense moving if not really in the game anyway...
Is the ODP selection process corrupt? If so does she have the right connections to get selected?
The state selection doesn't seem too hard its at the regional level. Don't know what that situation is regarding politics. Seemed like many different clubs represented so I tend to believe the politics aren't too bad there.
I would agree that the ODP Sate Selection appears to be non-political. But that is really tough to verify either way given ALL age groups and gender.My biggest complaint about ODP is the fact they can invite 500 kids of the same agree group to 'tryout'. Sure, the standout kids can usually still be spotted but you can't form that way. At least in any meaningful sense. They need to improve the tryout process. Or better yet do some actual work and scout kids.I do appreciate the fact that ODP is non-invasisve from a team perspective. They do not DESTROY teams in order to work. Like so many of the business academies.DCShore
Which business academies destroy teams?
Are you talking about 500 kids at regional camp?They have the individual coaches of the scramble teams recommending kids for the id pool. If a scramble coach doesn't rate your kid, she almost certainly won't make the pool. However, it really then is a triple phased process. Your kid gets picked as 3-5 or so out of 18 from the scramble team to go into the "id" teams then they get picked as 40 out of 100 by several coaches doing evals over several days to make the pool and then they get picked 18 out of 40 to go to Boca- ultimate "prize". While all tryouts have some degree of luck: Did the coach look when she did something well or only glanced up from clipboard when she made a mistake? Does the coach appreciate my child's style of play? Only a relative few make it based on politics as evidence by the wide collection of coaches. Its not like there are one or two coaches trying to evaluate 500 kids at once.
question - on academy teams, or teams where coach is paid, do you give a large team gift or any team gift for that matter? just moved my daughter to an academy level team, and was unsure what was appropriate. or does a card suffice?
Do what PDA parents do, all give him individual gifts in order to keep in the inner circle.
4:02 Are you talking about all of PDA or a specific team?
Only required for players 4-30, first 3 are exempt from gift giving. But the optional winter sessions are mandatory, plus request some private training lessons. Otherwise no gift is needed.
Fun Question. Who is the best team in NJ? Who is the best team in PA? Answer with positives only. Let's see if we can answer a question without being negative or hateful towards other teams.
606 I think we all know which PDA they are referring to.
The Pda that lost today?
Not everyone lives in the PDA world to know which team who lost or what you are referring to.
I saw the Gunners lost today, no news on the other teams, but it is great to see that the other teams doing well. WC has won back to back games against the Gunners and it looks like the other ECNL clubs are stepping up their game.
The "inner circle" only exists on PDA South. Better get those Xmas gifts ready.
Can someone explain all the hate towards the PDA South team? I know there is a lot of negativity towards PDA as a club which is to be expected when you are successful, but the South team is not near the Gunners Level and its an OK team and yet they always are getting railed on here.
It is only a couple of people who are posting and hating on PDA South. Because it is anonymous and they are obsessed they have posted multiple times It appears like a lot of hate but its just a couple of haters whose team lost a few players to PDA South. Good luck with the rest of the year.
4:02 C'mon man, you know that there are people on the team that post negative comments also.
Everyone associated with the south team knows all about the inner circle.
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/12/08/us-soccer-announce-sweeping-changes-player-development-structures-youth-nati?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=News&utm_campaign=Unpaid"Seeking “to benchmark itself against other soccer powers,” the federation will also commission an as-yet-undetermined outside group to lead an independent assessment of its youth national teams and Development Academy system.Starting in the 2016-17 season, it will also add an Under-12 division to the DA's existing U-13/14, U-15/16 and U-17/18 age groups, and will increase funding for the DA's scholarship program in order to open up the nation's premier youth competition to players from humbler economic backgrounds."*begins slow clapDCShore
DC Shore,Your information cannot possibly be correct. I have read a lot on this blog that the exclusive pay-for-play system is the only way to develop the future of American Soccer. I've been told the best way to attract the highest quality players is to slap on the word Elite to whatever your doing, charge $2500+/ year and the masses will follow. You also get to charge a premium and are assured to get the highest quality players if the term Elite is somehow connected to the term development and bonus points if you have Academy in your title.
@10:27PMI sense sarcasm :)If you study THE GAME enough the more you will come to many of my conclusions (maybe some nuance differences here and there). This action being taken is for GOOD reason. The betterment of the U.S. National game and U.S. soccer in general. I applaud this truly GREAT step.DCShore
You are right that these are good steps, but I also think the women's game is very far behind. I also think that our NCAA system is a barrier on both the men's and women's side.
@7:03Sure, but these are steps which will take root and more importantly hold in the next 3-5 years. IMHO the women's and men's game are equally far behind. Just my opinion.The athletic advantage the U.S. women had for so long has been negated by the upper echelon of team's. The U.S. men always have a puncher's chance to win but boxer's with a puncher's chance end up with a few upsets but more often than not look outclassed by boxers with true talent.NCAA system does not help the U.S. National program agreed. Sure it supplies bodies but School Ball at any level is like a box of chocolates. You never know just what you're getting.I can only hope the U.S. program becomes a network inter-connected leagues where a common-game or at least approach is shared and focus is exclusively on individual player development. You do not need to travel to Disney to become a better player or see better competition. Dispel myths like this. Let players advance to higher teams based on principled agenda's focused on development and not 'stacking' teams to win...and collection huge checks.We will all quickly see that state as populous as NJ can support more than one 'Elite' team. In fact there will be dozens. How much more enjoyable will it be to watch? How many more great experiences will player's get to enjoy? How much easier on everyone's pocketbooks? How much better for U.S. Soccer?This is the type of mentality that I will enthusiastically support...even through the rough learning curve years. I'm off my soap box...for now.DCShore
Not following you. There won't be more elite teams in the NE with these changes, especially if they are translated to the girls side, there will be fewer. It will be like the pre ECNL era Striker's teams. All the best players will come to the free team, with the best coaches, the best resources, and playing the best competition. Then there will be the next layer. Now if you consider the next layer "elite" also, maybe you are right that the technical level of soccer as a whole might be elevated with promised improved coaching instruction. This is the same model as in Europe which the US seems to want to adopt with its "consultants" yet to be specified coming in. There is currently a serious dilutional effect going on in the US with all of these girl's leagues in play. No clear winner so the best kids are scattered and not concentrated. In the old USYSA model, the best teams qualified to play in the top competition leagues. There was no argument over who the best teams were since they all regularly played each other in various tournaments and region1 or national league. They all competed for a single championship. The best kids often then left their second tier team to go play at the top- which was clearly defined. There was a natural concentration of coaching and player talent together. Now we can have a great coach, but he doesn't have the talent because he isn't coaching in the ECNL or his club isn't an NPL club etc. We have eliminated the singular great teams led by great and charismatic coaches from the highest success and that is unfortunate.I am glad that the USSF has finally recognized the "off year" loss to national level development. These are the birth years not associated with FIFA u17 world cup years. There is a u17 WC each year, but it alternates years between girls and boys. In 2014 it was girls. In case you didn't know, in this year's U17 WC the US did not field a U17 ('97)team because we failed to qualify. Anyone citing US women's soccer supremacy should take note of this fact. (and its not the first time- the '93 by u17s failed to qualify also) Further, in September the U20 were knocked out by North Korea and played extremely uninspiring, pedestrian, soccer. That team (technically birthdate on or after 1/1/94) was populated by more than half of the kids who were technically underage because they were carried along from the U17 ('95) national team 2 years before. You cannot tell me there weren't better 1994 birth year kids out there to have been chosen. The US even picked a 1998 "wunderkind" who put forward one of the weakest performances of the tournament. The US had to change its entire strategy when she couldn't hold her own at attacking mid. We then had to utilize Lindsey Horan in that position leaving us weak up top. Unfortunately Horan could not pass to Horan...Now the system should be better at catching the off years (even years for girls- odd for boys). Other than that all the changes are directed to the DA and boys. The comments on Soccer America suggest there may be more on girls program enhancements in January, but I am not holding my breath. So at this point if you have a national level even year child, this is good news, otherwise not seeing a huge change in the landscape, but hope for more in January.
Hard to understand how the US will ever find and develop it best women soccer players until there is a financial incentive to do so. The current system requires good players to finance their own development and it does not come cheap. The selection pool is limited.
I wonder if part of the restructure will be to eliminate the Bradenton residency program. I think 6-8 of the current boys u17 ('98) are training overseas as strongly supported by Klinsman. As opposed to US women's soccer strongly discouraging Horan at PSG. How much money does the USSF get from outside sources such as the MLS?
Any commits yet for 2018? The commits are starting for 2017, but haven't heard of any 2018s (despite that NYT article proclamations of 8th grade commits last year).
The best players have been to " unofficial", but invited visits but haven't heard of any definite commitments. Will though this spring.
Official college visits can only be offered to students in their senior year, and coaches (D-I & D-II) can only contact students after Sept 1st of their junior year, there's no kids in the class of 2018 that fall into these areas.Nothing prevents a kid from saying "I'm going to XYZ University", but in terms of signing an NLI that's not going to happen for a while.
Good luck believing that those rules are followed. The reality is that the D1 college coach calls the kid's club coach and tells him he is interested in the player and says he will be in his office at a certain time to take calls. The player call the coach at that time and they set up an "unofficial visit". The player then verbally commits as early as spring freshmen year. Yes non binding but thought of very poorly if either party does not follow through.
What if there was a County type development system? Whichever county a kid lives in, they would have to play on that County’s “Elite” team. The town clubs could charge a minimal “National Team Training” fee to all kids playing in that town to PARTIALLY fund the teams. There’s many different directions this could go from there. In NJ for example there would be 20 or so teams. Some would be better then others but there could then be 2 or 3 flights, a North & South All Star team coming from that, the top flight playing neighboring States top flights etc. Just a thought, might it work?
Really to what end?
Who is going to want to pay a National Team Training Fee? The fees we all pay already are enough.
Very easy, if you have US Club and USYS collect a $1-3 fee for every registered player, you would have a substantial pool of money for both regional and national development. In that model, the entire pool of kids subsidize regional and national development but not to a very significant degree. There are 3 million kids registered with USYS.
Just a hypothetical scenario to discuss pros and cons. A County system would be partially subsidized to make it affordable to all, it would have teams moving up and down in flights, travel for practices would be reasonable, it would bring out the best talent locally, etc. What would be some negatives?
The biggest negative is politics which embeds itself into player selection. Just like coaches have preferred players on teams a coach for a county or regional team will have preferred playersIf you don't think it's right just look at the PA ODP, there is a bias towards Penn Fusion. I have seen kids from NJ who play for Penn Fusion tryout for the PA ODP not NJ. Why, because the coach is from her club.There is no way to get away from politics and biases.
@3:39 “There is no way to get away from politics and biases.” Agreed you can NEVER fully get away from it, but there is ways to limit it. There is an old saying in politics, “all politics are local”. Maybe all County clubs, due to the fact that club members provide partial funding, have a limited oversight panel where each club gets 1 equal vote, regardless of the club size. If a County “Elite”coach is getting to political, even the smaller clubs would have equal power to vote out a coach or have the problems addressed somewhat. But yes, nowhere in all corners of our society can you completely get away from politics. Of course this is all hypothetical, the Penn Fusions of the world would not exist under this scenario so ODP could not be biased towards them.
Cannot see the system fundamentally changing. The top clubs and leagues successfully exploit our system wherein players finance their own development.
Ans what is a "county club". Is there a county organization involved with these soccer clubs or leagues?
Lots of good comments above. And a few questions that will need to be answered but it is clear MANY of you see the potential in all of this. And yes it is just a first step.@8:53AM"Not following you. There won't be more elite teams in the NE with these changes... Now if you consider the next layer "elite" also, maybe you are right that the technical level of soccer as a whole might be elevated with promised improved coaching instruction. This is the same model as in Europe which the US seems to want to adopt with its "consultants" yet to be specified coming in. "--->forget the word Elite. As you elude to in the second half of your paragraph, YES I see an overall growth in the player pool for producing top notch players, some of which may participate in National Play. I compare it to acting though. The greatest actors still need a great supporting case. And we all know you can't have a team of GREAT players or the BEST Players. OK, a few European teams come close. The point remains that if we funnel every player up, or at least try to, we will develop real talent amongst players. Right now the concentration is on building winning teams. Does anybody deny this?The changes I see coming will grow the sport beyond its your popularity (participation-wise). You could see many more young adults play well into their 20's, at the Club Level. More importantly DEVELOPMENT will be the main focus. Winning at U14 amongst coaches/programs is nice but not the priority. NOT what they are judged on. NOT what they are paid for. Parents will not be marketed to. They will not be fleeced for THOUSANDS (really is insane) each season/year.BETTER for U.S. soccer and better for our kids to be a part of such a program.DCShore
County teams...because that really takes the politics out of baseball! What happens if your county team has a coach that is not a good match for your daughter? What happens if a player is one of the best players in the country but lives in a county where the soccer is terrible? It is ok to say she will get funneled up, but once a month playing with girls of similar ability is not enough. It would be tough for a player to develop if they are practicing with kids not nearly as good as them. Why should we restrict the place a child can go and play soccer? Regardless of which league you like or hate, at the moment you have a choice. The costs will never go away because there is no money in girls soccer. Women's soccer helps cuts the crazy costs of college for 1000's of kids who get scholarships. To me that is much more important than focusing on developing 20 girls who can maybe beat the Germans. People continue to claim it's all about developing. What percentage of girls who played D1 college are even playing competitively at age 25? What are we developing for? We should be focusing on getting girls money for college and developing a love of the game.Stop focusing on the top of the pyramid as only the very few get there.
DC Shore - What is the European model you speak of? If you reference a model can you inform us as to how and where this model operates?.........Many of you are confused about the "European Model". And lets not forget the model you talk about is for the mens game. And lets not forget there are many countries in Europe that all have different models. The most common Model is one that is very similar to what is happening here. Players choose a local club team to play on. If they are good they get to play for their county team. (similar to ODP here). Scouts from premier league clubs take a very small number of players and place them in the academy of that club. The presumed European model that is designed for the men's game and is probably one of the richest sports in the world is not the answer for amateur youth girls soccer in the USA. America has been blessed in Women's soccer for a long-time. Now there are a few countries who can compete with them everyone is at a panic. It is not because America Soccer is getting worse, it is because Women's sports is gaining popularity and acceptance in many European countries so the international teams are improving.
Who is in a panic? It is interesting to analyze why teams from a county with such a huge pool of young players can struggle to compete with teams from countries that start off with significantly smaller pool of players.Maybe it is because international competition is not the goal for most female players here.
@9:30PMI get the terrible impression that you are someone defending their Business Academy. How else can you justify this:"What is the European model you speak of? If you reference a model can you inform us as to how and where this model operates?.........Many of you are confused about the "European Model". And lets not forget the model you talk about is for the mens game. And lets not forget there are many countries in Europe that all have different models. "Are you asking or telling me something? One moment it is "Can you inform us as to how...?", the next moment it is "And let's not forget the model you talk about..."The European Model, can be further specified by saying the Spanish, or the German, or the Dutch models which YES historically based on the Men's program but in more recent years is now being adopted cross-platform with women. Remember the women's game let alone league's is newer to international competition historically speaking."The presumed European model that is designed for the men's game and is probably one of the richest sports in the world"I have provided countless examples and links to this topic. The European model (again you can specify further with the countries above, is based on player development. Open system league play. It can be argued that the U.S. women's game has not gotten worse, but the point I make (and so many others) is that our success was based on physical dominance and YES the lack of global participation. Not because we were really doing anything outstanding from a technical perspective.We mostly out-athletes the competition. Sorry to burst your bubble.In my honest opinion there are probably 3-4 countries who play a much superior technical game. And it will only get worse.I'm not going to detail point by point my compete thoughts now but as you have seen in the past I will love time. And DON'T take my word for anything. Listen to what experts are saying and I will once again share links to sources like: http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2013/1/4/3833932/wasted-diamonds"Employing and giving the poor a chance to play soccer without financially ruining themselves would solve the issue but instead it seems that the powers that be are happier with soccer being a hobby of the upper middle class. And then complaining about it."
http://www.vysa.com/coaches/99579.html"After all, we need U12 National Champions, otherwise how will we be able to identify the players of the future -- winning is everything. Yet, in the 30-plus years that we have had organized youth soccer on a mass scale, we have not yet produced even one truly world class player! In the long-term development of a soccer player, winning in any particular season means almost nothing. It is the playing and experimentation that are almost everything.""I have spoken with many world-renowned soccer players and coaches over the 32 years I have been coaching. Basically, they all say we need the same things for to become great at soccer. We need creative players who can play in unique ways, more quickly, and who can score. We recognize the need, and yet beginning at age 8, we force our young players into more rigid and competitive teams where they are recruited to play certain roles so that the "team" can win. We wonder why when we evaluate players at ODP tryouts out of 100 players we see five who have the beginnings of flair, but the 95 other players seem to be cookie-cutter players. When do we allow them to be creative? When do we allow them to try to solve problems in unique ways? When do we allow them to experiment and enjoy the game? When do we allow them the opportunity to search for and learn new solutions, and to do so again and again, thousands of times in thousands of situations? The answer is: we don’t."DCShore
Last post of the night.http://www.oregonyouthsoccer.org/assets/coaches/Comparing_the_US_Soccer_Environment_to_the_World.pdfComparing the US Soccer Environment to the World's Soccer Environment"Our "top" players stay in their age group or are kept in their age group, to win State Cups or other events. Their top players are pushed up, from an early age, to ensure they are developing their ability - not succeeding due to size and athleticism rather their "footballing" ability.Our "top" players often play for Clubs with little vision or plan for youth development, and are dependent on the qualities of their individual coach, they often play in Clubs with little or no cooperation between coaches, teams and age groups - sometimes with decisions concerning travel and training made by parents or managers.Their top players compete in Clubs, who have a vision on youth development, with a boss - who ensures the coaches are placing individual over team development, with an emphasis placed on training enough times (yearly, monthly, yearly) to allow players to develop specific areas of their game."DCShore
One difference with Europe is that the Women's Club's are affiliated with the Men's professional clubs. This means that a women's league on its own does not have to be financially self-sustaining and they are subsidized by the revenue of the whole club. And if you look at Germany, Sweden, and France where there are close links and established good professional leagues you have sen countries whose women's programs have developed well. We have very little link between our MLS and Women's League. But what happens in Europe is that Women have a viable year round program with high level competition. IMO, the person who said it earlier, that the US was better at soccer than world was because we played more and had more athletes than the teams that competed against us in years past. That is no more, and the European National teams have caught up to the US. There is something to be said about a system of professional soccer where there are men and Women's teams within a club.
@3:19Just to be clear though, while you are correct that the women's teams are affiliated with the men's teams (same club) they are more often than not financially independent. Especially in Germany. In other words they do get the benefits of awareness and affilition with long standing clubs but they have to 'earn their own' when it comes to the finances. So it's not like Bayern Munich (proper) invests heavily into the women's program on an annual basis. As you say though, the working benefits of the men's model is the end goal from all levels with these programs. ESPECIALLY from a development point of view. Granted this is a top down approach and it has not worked its way completely, or even substantially down the youth level...but it is heading that way and there are already much stronger strides in Germany than the U.S. as an example. On the men's side...there is no comparison.Est ist Das Model!DCShore
actually until clubs can sell youth players as the commodity that they are in Europe there really isn't much difference in the business model for girls and boys development in the US.Will be interesting to see if the USSF recognizes the ECNL in their promised January release. If they do some sort of anti high school position, many of the role players, at least,on ECNL teams will go back to USYSA.
What do you mean "USSF recognizes the ECNL"?
So PDA Athletica beats PDA pride? Does that make Athletica the new B team? Seems like a lot of money to play inter club.
The Ultimate Closed System...LOL!!!DCShore
Yes , DC Shore, you can see it works well!
PDA has never lost a match. When it plays PDA.And the best part is one set of parents gets to say "We beat PDA today". DCShore
@12:19PM"actually until clubs can sell youth players as the commodity that they are in Europe there really isn't much difference in the business model for girls and boys development in the US."---> but don't you see...the incentive for the club is to develop players...they are rewarded for this.If you don't believe/understand that the U.S. is behind I can't make you. However I'll ask the question again. How's it working out for our National teams?DCShore
Since you brought up USWNT.Tied China 1-1Lost to Brazil 3-2Out with the old in with the New. I know the last coach got fired for that.Not all women clubs are affiliated with the men side. AND I agree until clubs can get paid to develop players they don't care as long as they win.
Stole this from the LI forum because I thought it was interesting:Your child might get seen and recruited by lower level college coaches at a local league or even high school. But if you think there are any ACC, Big 10, SEC, PAC12 , big east etc coaches looking for the stand out player in that venue, you would be mistaken. Those coaches must be convinced that your child can play at their level. They must see them playing quality competition. The best NEFC players play ODP just for that reason. The competition they face is weak. They prove they can play in the interregional. NPL and region 1 are questionable competition for these coaches. They are looking at national league and ecnl especially champions league and the top teams (who get scheduled to play against each other) at national showcases. The multitude of leagues has hurt many of the better players as it is now harder to show that they are of the level than it was years ago when the best players naturally migrated to the best teams in the state, which by u15, were generally coached by the best coaches. At that time it was much clearer which were the best teams because they were frequently playing against each other in region 1, top tournaments, to which they all applied, and state cup. Now there are top teams playing in all the leagues. The problem is that often they have difficulty finding anyone at their level to play. There are many more unbalanced games now that both top and lower level teams must suffer through than there were years ago. The better programs are recruiting from ecnl, national league, odp interregional and a few top national level tournaments. They might go and see a player of interest at a more local event near the school. It is an urban myth that if a player is great they will be found no matter what team they play for and at any venue. The idea appeals to our American sense of fairness and reward for good work ethics, unfortunately it just isn't true. I won't even go into the international competition that is increasing scarfing up college spots.
@10:02 PMThere you go. How's it all working out for the National Teams? Not very well. Tom Sermanni was fired because his coaching "philosophy" did not match that of the 'U.S. model'."Every coach that comes on has their own philosophy and stamp that they want to put on the game. For us, we're very American, attack-oriented, score goals until the 95th minute," she said. "That's how we are. I think that maybe the direction of the team wasn't going in the direction the federation had hoped, not only the Algarve result, but I think just in general."So yeah, he was trying to get the team to the point where it did not have to rely on Abby Wambach's freakish physical capabilities (scoring headers in the final minutes of a game) and that takes time and "development". We have to 'win'! ...so yeah Abby...how is that working out for us?http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-commentary/article/10752007/abby-wambach-says-uswnt-players-not-tom-sermanni-firing@2:22 PMYeah, what you write 'mostly' resembles the way things are. Let's not argue the point at this time of whether or not it should be that way.All things remaining the same, my advice is to walk any college you attend. Lots of Dummy coaches who are also lazy. So they prefer to be spoon fed. It's a nice business arrangement.All of this said...how's this working out for U.S. soccer?DCShore
I noted on the ussoccer website that there have been several "Market Training Centers" in region 1 this year. Can anyone comment on the experience that their child has had? Has anyone advanced to national camp through these? Are they competitive? How are the kids chosen who are participating etc.
With nearly all the top local teams heading to Florida for the 3 main tournaments it makes me wonder how they can handle all the officiating. Must be 800 teams plus boys tournaments. Anyone have any history on the quality levels for officials at Disney? Hate to travel that far for high school kids. Thoughts? Prior experience?
Been a while since I was on here. One to correct one misconception about VA. Last years' ECNL teams were not way beyond the USYS teams as stated. First thing, Mclean - Chantilly finished in Top 4 and the team is doing about the same as last season. Not a big improvement.And while ABGC has improved FCV, last year's FCV ECNL team scrimmaged State Cup runner up (and the team that beat Chantilly Elite) and it was a tie and very even game. Last year, FCV game within a couple second of beating Mclean. ABGC has improved FCV, but it wasn't like last year's team was way below the top USYS teams. Other than ABGC, last year's team probably had more talent than the USYS team but could never gel because they were put together in June, didn't practice over the summer until mid August, and then asked to plan an ECNL schedule and top brackets against elite level teams that had been together for a while. They also had a roster of 17 and 3-4 girls were hurt every week. The coach was playing girls out of position.It was a no-win situation and FCV coaching was partly to blame. Most of the girls who left FCV are now on Bethesda ECNL, Mclean ECNL, or the three top USYS teams (Vienna, Chantilly, and Herndon)Look at Chantilly Storm, WAGS D2 team that got one of FCV's ECNL a player from Harkes, a key player from Loudoun and Chantilly won WAGS D1. A 1-0 score beating Herndon a week after FCV beat Herndon by the same score. Headed to R1 league and according to many on ASA and Vienna - the touchest team they faced in the Fall because that team has a very fast, technically strong midfield with very good possession players, combined with a striker who is 6 feet tall with great ball skills, and two center backs that are really tough to beat.
Forgot, Richmond United ECNL has has one of the player's from last year's FCV ECNL team.So much for a second rate team, most of the players are went on to other ECNL teams or significantly improved the remaining USYS teams.
I just looked at the NPL Showcase schedules before heading down to Florida to Disney. It does seem that the pecking order in the lower 3 teams has changed, it's seems pretty clear that PDA is protecting their little South team with a powderpuff schedule. Nothing like really challenging yourselves. Seems like 2 of the teams are ranked around 50 in Illinois and Florida I guess the South team has had enough of losing to the FC Stars NPL team that they are going to letting Atletica play them.
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