Monday, January 14, 2019

U18 Girls Youth Soccer

This page is focused on Under 18 girls youth soccer, primarily in Region 1 and everyone is invited to post.

Teams face increased competition for the top players, (who are increasingly attending college showcases).

More teams consolidate and the best teams--academy soccer, club soccer and high school teams--battle to attract and retain the right player mix.

Stay tuned. This is bound to be good.

2,858 comments:

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Anonymous said...

So, Sophia Smith was one of the Colorado players that was at NT camp instead of U16 nat'l championships last summer? How could that game take place without someone of her talent? Surely she would have scored at least 1 maybe 2 goals alone. Hope we get to see that rematch.

Anonymous said...

326 Those teams have played before. Love the way people assume stuff based on what the USSF says. I would be confident in saying that ECNL CL competition is better than most of the Intl games she plays. Also, funny how she was not considered good enough to start for the U17 WC team that bombed, but is now a phenom? Hmmm. I think there are other kids who could, if given the opportunity, bang in goals for the US team in these games.

Having said all that, she is a good player who I would like to see pass/combine more with teammates. Scores a lot of Unassisted goals. A sign that she feeds on mistakes. At the top level, there are far fewer mistakes made.

Anonymous said...

You can't go to the ECNL. And right now no NJ clubs meet the admission criteria.

Anonymous said...

8:38 - my recollection they played prior to the championship game and tied. So are you saying a player like Smith and the other girl from Real Colorado that missed the nat'l championships to go to NT camp would not have made a difference??

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

How was ECNL PDP? Who were the coaches. How was the level?

Anonymous said...

2:53 - you would be incorrect. i have always thought her (Sophia Smith) not being available to compete (as well as her NT teammate Jaelin Howell) gave the finals a question mark.
So, this only reinforced my original thoughts and probably that of others as well. Just how it goes.
And, of course you play who ever lines up against you in every sport, but, playmakers are always missed.

Anonymous said...

11:34 - PDP was very good. Coaches were great (Rutgers asst Ryan was one) as were players. It was really good, intense and highly competitive. It was indoors due to weather and fields were smaller so games were very, very fast. Some really great soccer. Fun to watch.

Anonymous said...

803 I still dont understand your point? At the time. the issue of players missing was raised. Throughout qualification for these events, other teams - less deep teams - were forced to play without their best players. So why do you only raise this in the finals? PDA did not suffer from a lot of YNT call ups so lucky for them I guess. But again, who really cares? The teams that contend for these things usually draw players from big areas and are deep enough to withstand a few not playing. The ones affected most are the less deep teams.

Anonymous said...

814 . Not sure I see much point in PDPs . Used to be a national talent evaluation forum. With GDA/ECNL split what is it now? A chance to win a ticket to spend more money going to the national Id2 event? I no longer see the purpose.

Anonymous said...

@8:54 don't be a hater maybe next year gfa will have some copa/gfa I'd camp to see who can take your money faster and lie more .You have to abutted psa parent I know Las Vegas was a waste keep trying stallion.

Anonymous said...

Well may be true in the future. But ECNL is still the top ID venue. So this year at least it is still relevant. The national camp does cost to get there but once there it is free and there are a lot of free gear give always. It's not a money grab.

Anonymous said...

1128 . I dont really believe in a top ID venue. Its a meaningless concept to me.

Anonymous said...

How many of the PdP players are uncommitted?

Anonymous said...

136 to do that analysis you would have to compare the names to the available commitment trackers. Even then you couldn't be sure because not everybody submits their commitments. That said these are 2020-2017. Not too many 2020 are committed. Some of the 2019s are and most if not all of the 2018/17 are.

Here's the link

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZTti47PZl8kG85jjYqE_kZWSvQItf8fXK7a5xg6GRrM/edit

So you can do it if you want to.

Anonymous said...

8:50 - just jumping in, but so you really think a deep bench replaces some key players? It just doesn't in any sport.

Anonymous said...

1:36 - so what do you think of GDA?

Anonymous said...

327 it does in ECNL/Showcase soccer. And it absolutely does in pro league soccer where teams are sometimes playing 2 to 3 games a week.Many of these teams are pretty equivalent top 11 on top 11 but the games turn when subs are made. It allows deeper players to rest players when they are playing say 3 games in 4 days or 2 in 2. if my bench is a lot better than yours I can win games there. A top forward playing deep teams can see double and triple teams, wearing her down at littel tactical loss to the deeper team.

I could not disagree with you more. The teams that win are not producing better players as such. the player they have are not improving at a faster rate. They just have more depth. They beat you from 6 thru 13 on the roster...not 1-5

Anonymous said...

331 Time will tell. Impossible to judge until we are at least one full cycle in to it

Anonymous said...

355 I disagree. The teams that win consistently have 3-5 real difference makers. Those of us who know these teams well can tell you exactly who the difference makers are on each team at the top of the table. They may be deeper too, but what distinguishes them in the W-L department is their super studs. Take them away and the team is average. Not bad, but average. You don't win a championship with an average team.

Anonymous said...

That is what one poster is saying. Missing kids that went to USNT camp instead of attending a championship game would make a difference. I agree as well.

Anonymous said...

8:54 - all but the travel to the PDP event are picked up by either League and/or sponsors (Nike, Gatorade, etc.). So not money grab either. Very structured; very competitive. Was worth it.

Anonymous said...

545 Who said it was a money grab? No one did. Said a chance to spend more money. My child get s a chance to travel and play plenty of soccer. Te original id2 purpose is no longer there.

Anonymous said...

421. lets say you are correct. I dont see 3/5 studs on ANY team in the NE let alone super studs. I dont think the Champion team had one player who missed a game thru attending a YNT camp yet they were undefeated. You win ECNL games with good deep teams. 2 games over the weekend is a huge load for a team and if that team is driven by a couple of players its even bigger. Winning an ECNL title is a function of ALL the games, not just the last one. Seeding plays a big part.

Who ever said that a collection of good well balanced players cannot be a great team? Who ever said that because the team is great it must have 3/5 super studs? Flawed thinking. The team that won played together the best, was well disciplined and did not suffer too many line up changes. They were solid form 1 thru 16. Thats what a great team is.

To suggest that its super studs is just not borne out by any evidence at all. USSF clearly dont think they are super studs. Thats a question/argument for a different day, but by your metrics they should do surely.

532. Does consistently missing your best players throughout the year have an impact on any team ? if you are deep, can you get over that easier that a team that isn't? I have seen many games where the better disciplined team beats the team with the stars. So to say it would have made a difference is pure speculation. When the teams played prior, did those players make a difference ? Dont think so. I watched FC Stars play PDA and the team with the so called studs was thoroughly outplayed.

854 Debate is not whether its worth it to you. I can't judge that. I can say that when it was a venue for ECNL kids to get in front of USSF staff it made some sense. To have the Id2 team fully funded and not the rest is dumb imo. With the GDA/ECNL situation and the sheer amount of soccer the kids play, I dont think it makes much sense anymore. Its just another political tool that coaches use.

Anonymous said...

7:39 - undefeated in the league. We won't count CASL (2015) I guess.

Anonymous said...

Not trying to break stones, but 7:39 - but "simply outplayed" Stars?? Really??? Wasn't that a 1-0 game as well. And, just know Stars had several ties, like PDA, throughout the league season. Either one of those teams could have taken it.

Anonymous said...

And yes, 7:39 those players did make a difference. It's called a draw.

Anonymous said...

I get you re 7:39 re the PDP. But, it's pretty good to see how high level kids who don't play together learn how to do so. And, it's a great environment for soccer kids to meet other soccer kids and make other friends that have the same passion. How's that a bad thing? Plus when did getting some additional soccer tips become unnecessary?

Anonymous said...

At this age, if not committed, good showcases, ID clinics (and DA next year) is where to go....period

Anonymous said...

752 If not committed, practice is the place to go ...period.

Anonymous said...

809 if you get that out of it. Great. I think my kids play a lot of soccer. Do all the things you mentioned without going to the other side of the country. And im sure as heck not flying out there to watch as your post suggested you do.

Anonymous said...

801 Its soccer. The score does not always reflect the balance of play. I thought Real C outplayed PDA and lost.

Anonymous said...

8:25 of course that's part of it, goes without saying
So college coaches come to your training?

Anonymous said...

1013 yes they do. And the point is the route to commitment /options is becoming a better player.. not more exposure.

Anonymous said...

739 I get it. Your kid is a depth player on a decent team and you need to validate her.
Your definition of stud seems to be current YNT player. Well for sure Sophie Smith is a current YNT player, paying up 2 years, who scores a ton of goals and would be considered a super stud by pretty much everyone. She is one dimensional but in that dimension she is seriously dangerous. Missing her changed that Real Colordo's team odds significantly. Jayelin Howe is a big slow 6 whom I personally also don't think is a super stud, but what do i know? The USSF also promoted her 2 years so someone thinks she was a standout enough player to have made a difference in that game.

Having said that, the PDA team also has its share of top game changer players. One of the key defenders and the GK went immediately to YNT camps, the GK then went to Jordan with the u17 YNT. That said. they have a few of the top midfielders and forwards in the country. Several have been in and out of the YNT system. Without them, PDA would not be nearly as successful so they are not devoid of their own game changers. Soccer teams don't have "line changes" so I get where you are coming from...
FYI Stars "studs" you reference are not studs they are solid players being advanced by a corrupt system.Not game changers.

Sure deep is better than not, duh. But The biggest discriminator between top and middle tier teams is the quality and number of top end players on each team. Keep trying to over value the benchn and I will keep laughing.

At least for this year PDP is still an important ID opportunity. Heinrichs pulled a bunch of players to u18 camp last summer right from ECNL national camp. After the DA was announced. The USSF know the best players are still in the ECNL and wont waste this year waiting for the DA. They are going where the pay dirt is. Not saying there isn't a nugget out there all alone, but they aren't wasting resources looking for it.

Next year I think they will spite the ECNL and not pull kids from PDP but this year, totally worthwhile as described above and a solid ID event.

Anonymous said...

I will trade my "solid" bench for your 3 "gamechangers" every day

Anonymous said...

1112 Its possible to have an opinion that si not clouded by self interest. You actually dont "get it" and its actually embarrassing how far off you are. but thats ok. The OP suggested that the difference in teams wast 3/5 super studs. I happen to disagree. I also have my own opinions and dont need the USSF to tell me what I think a difference making player is. I dont understand what your play up 2 years even means. It does not make a player any better in my eyes. I assume then you now think she is better because of it. I beleive that PDA are quite capable of containing a player like Smith and Have done several times before. I dont think its a given, as you do, that she changes the result in any way.

its funny how all this is being dredged up again when it was discussed at the time. PDA won fair and square and nothing tells me they would not have done so even if those kids did play.

As far at the key defenders and GK. so I understand you are saying that the FC Stars NT players are a product of corruption, but the PDA ones are not? So you think its pure coincidence that almost all of PDAs current camp attendees are committed to Rutgers.

i could not disagree more on what differentiates girls teams. You have just told me that FCS , who went all the way to the finals, dint have any studs. So why did they get there.? The only stud you have really defined is Smith. You are making my point for me. What differentiates the team is the discrepancy in abilty between the top and yes the bottom of the roster. a PDA has a high top end and not much difference top to bottom. there are teams out there with higher top ends , but also much lower bottom ends. FCS are the same. high top end and not much diff top to bottom. real the same. Its not the game changers. These games are often more about fitness, endurance and discipline that any thing else. Game changers are so few, that teams can come up with ways of slowing them down.

PDA are/were one of the most disciplined, prepared, well coached teams I saw - dont discount that either.

Anonymous said...

1113 ..you miss the point totally. I would not trade my 1-5 for anyones, but I would trade 6-15 with the top teams. Thats is where they gain the biggest advantage.

Anonymous said...

11:05
College coaches attend your training? You must be PDA :)

Anonymous said...

The deep bench vs studs depends a lot on type of play as well. A coach who has a true striker and CM tandem can force play in the middle and final third but only so much. A team where 1-5 are all best at their role is more practical. Take a 5'10" striker who is good in the air, good off the ball and can strike the ball well, she will be a target player both for scoring and marking. Now take a team that has 5 key players at the back, mid and forward roles, they can maintain possession, defend, create oppotunities and score. The striker primodonna model falls apart when she gets injurded or has a bad day (or is called to YNT events). THe benefit for her is she is being called to YNT events, the benefit for the team is only when she is there. My daughter played on a team that had this type of player. she had a bad few weeks and the team suffered. New coach, new methodology the super striker mentality has been exchanged for possession, counter and attack. still have top 5 on the field entire game but the level of play from 6-17 has improved as well. League games are expected to be tight for subs, but showcase games are being played better. BTW my dauhter is the GK.

Anonymous said...

1247. I appreciate some of what you are saying..I think. The reality is the only people affected by those kids not playing were those directly involved. I like a good game as much as the next man, but I dont care who won the ECNL title. means nothing to me. Im sure the kids from RC wanted to play, but hey, they also wanted to go to Jordan. We have seen that the ECNL and the USSF dont really communicate or cooperate much so there you have it. As far as team dynamics going forward etc, all this stuff seem so important when you are on the team, but it reality the only important thing is improving. Wiins, losses and draws are all part of it. My kids are friends with kids from all over the country. none of them talk about who won, or what if this one had played.Its all parents.

Anonymous said...

1:06 PM
As far as who won the ECNL/National League - It looks good and if you are the one that came out 2nd because a scheduling decision you have to look at where the player's allegiance's are. Was the scheduling done on purpose or coincidence? If the carrot for the player is NT the decision is to go to the NT event. THe player will not hurt their recruiting chances by doing so. But if her team was relying on her playing in ECNL to win that is poor planning/prep by the coach/club.
Kids do talk about W/L and playing time. No one wants to sit and at this age they realize (uncommited mostly) that if their team is winning they are getting looks. And yes I agree that Youth soccer is at odds with itself pitting ECNL against USSF, but it is no different than business trying to build kingdoms through aquisitions and mergers rather than create something new. But USSF thinks they can create a better product not by partnering with the ECNL but pilfering from it. Plus there is the end game for the girls you assume are not watching scores and playing time, college money, and some recognition. The same motivation that the parents have for chasing the game.

Anonymous said...

7:52 - I don't think you understand that ECNL PDP included younger ones as well. As someone noted, it's 2020 through 2017. All the older ones 2018 and 2017 are committed and most of the 2019's as well. Several of the 2020's are committed.
But, you don't seem to understand. This event had nothing to do with college commitments.

Anonymous said...

11:12 - let's not get into who left that game (the U16 championship) from PDA and was invited to attend camps. The point is unlike Real C, the PDA kids were THERE for the game.
And, btw, I and others don't agree with a few of those invites either. But, the politics of soccer will always prevail.

Anonymous said...

@12:38 - btw - not PDA. Yep there are other teams out there that get coaches to come to training (top level programs, too).

Anonymous said...

12:47 - my daughter is a gk as well. Glad your team has improved for you/her.

Anonymous said...

1:06 and yes those RC kids did go to Jordan; and played.

Anonymous said...

2:04 - ECNL isn't pilfering from the product. The clubs, players and coaches ARE the product and they are the ones that gave a league that no one thought would be very good, it's success. That is what ECNL seems to forget when it treats some member teams better than others. They made ECNL not the other way around.

Anonymous said...

204 . if girls are watching scores and PT they are , as I have said above, focused in the wrong place and getting terrible advice fro adults. I am unaware of any top College coach who is looking at results to recruit. they look at players. I have never been around a coach who said Ill take that kid becasue she was on the roster of an ECNL champ. When you say the goal is NT, i have no idea the level you mean. If you meant the full team then no decision made now re Camps has any bearing. Those kids were in a world Cup year and prepping so its a bit different. They wanted to go to the WC. Totally understandable and I cant think of any kid who would have turned it down to play in an ECNL champ game given that they had already put in 18 months of work.

There are some top kids on weaker teams.

Anonymous said...

220 exactly. its now the ECNL attempt at a National team.

Anonymous said...

226 Politics of soccer? Please enlighten us ;) I thought at this age is was only the corruption at FC Stars ;)

Anonymous said...

241 Amen. Said it till blue in the face on here. the quality is determined by the players and the coaches. This notion that GDA is somehow going to be revolutionary can only happen with

- better players. I would accept better concentration of players as well. ie the best and the most dedicated getting together under one umbrella and the numbers being dictated by THAT. Not time zones, or economies of scale or road games or other non soccer factors

- better coaching
- better facilities
- better conditions - refereeing, administration etc

I see no real evidence that any of that is going to happen in the short term.

I happen to agree that the USSF and the ECNL should have partnered, but my vision of a GDA and the current ECNL are vastly different and Im not sure where the common ground would be. I see GDA as a specialist product for the very best players ( current and upside potential) . The sad part is it looks like another version of the ECNL with a few tweaks. And we seem to have the ECNL top brass with fingers in both pies .

Anonymous said...

2:41 PM

I think you mis-understood, GDA is pilfering ECNL teams/Clubs/Players only to provide the same thing re-branded. Also, College coaches may not be selecting kids based on their teams success in the ECNL Championship but I do believe the kids who participated and won count that and will count that as a good soccer memory. Sometimes we as parents forget that in order for these girls to continue to play they need to have some enjoyment and reward. And recruiting is a mth. In order to be recruited you want to be recruited. Sure you may get discovered but reality is more like American Idol, you need to play at the events where the coaches are and be active with the schools you want to go to. I am sure you and your daughters spam folders are full of invites solicited by the schools that bought the database from the ECNL. But the real contacts come into the inbox.

Anonymous said...

Agreed. The politics of soccer; only some (ahhh..can you say ECNL board) able to get the best of both. :)

Anonymous said...

3:52 - Yep. But for us, the real contacts have come from the club and the coaches. The colleges reached out to them because they like the club and the coaches and their style of play and my kid is part of the system of it's success. ECNL provided the venue for the games.

Anonymous said...

And no, we are not PDA. Yep, others out there as well. And, college coaches come to our practices, too.

Anonymous said...

whoops, sorry. I'm 2:41.

Anonymous said...

357 ?? At the top end, Colleges recruit players. They reached out to you becasue they liked the player. Dont ever forget that. I am happy that my kid is io a good environment, but that is usually created by an individual or group who understand that a CLUB is it personality and that is a function of the people.

352 I agree.. I did say that it matters to those INVOLVED. I mot trying to analyze it now. Its done and dusted.

354 Is it the best of both? i think they are taking a huge risk. if they dont get the best players to the USSF GDA teams then how does that look to the GDA folks given many of them bragged about getting GDA in the first round? its going to be interesting watching this from afar. Its worth noting the the fallout from our U17 WC performances has been ZERO accountability so far. BJ Snow now coaching the U-23s and almost all the U17 players are still playing on NTs and quite a few of them at u-23 or higher.

I dont trust the USSF to lead anything based on merit or accountability.

Anonymous said...

11:12 am - have to laugh at the "line change" comment. Our coach does just that at times. Not recommended. First, it takes away the chemistry built on the field playing against an opponent and secondly, it changes the dynamic of your own team.
I never understood coaching against your own team (challenging them instead of putting the correct personnel out there), but that is how it's done by some, I guess.

Anonymous said...

4:26 - I agree, fully. It's the player and where ever the players go (i.e., GDA, the coaches will as well).

Anonymous said...

4:26 - that is why playing internationally is the goal of some, now, instead of USNT.

Anonymous said...

@3:23 - The ECNL will now be the GDA. ECNL will not be what it was anymore. So most if not all of the success absorbed by the League will be moving forward and will now be GDA. ECNL will become the 2.0 version. So, if you like ECNL, now, you should like GDA, too.

Anonymous said...

12:01 - I agree that there does not seem to be blind selection re NT camp and that US Soccer seems to be (either intentionally or unintentionally) assisting in the politics by helping some college programs become stronger than others.

The Rutgers' selections were kids already committed to Rutgers and then got their invite to NT; not the other way around like some of the other programs (where the kids have been on the NT radar, first; prior to the college commitment).

How is your choice of college the last check off box on the list to get an invite anymore?

Anonymous said...

@4:30 - some are better at training; some are better at game time strategy and some are both. Good luck.

Anonymous said...

3/21 - 8:28 - what are you talking about? The PDP event happened here in the northeast not across the country I thought this was a Region 1 blog, mostly.

Anonymous said...

614.. The PDPis an id process. the best kids from the ECNL are then invited to a national event which is usually on the west coast. PDP is part of that ID process. i believe the 2002 age group will be all expenses paid including some other "perks" .depending on your schools eligibility rules you may be able to keep some stuff. Thats how it was when my kid was a 2000. It is in effect the ECNL National Team

hope that answers you question and where 828 was coming from

Anonymous said...

505. indeed. Funny that. As I said earlier, some would have you believe it only those awful FC Stars folk that seem able to swing NT inclusion for the "right" kids. And a WC trip. For a kid who had never been to camp before in the entire 2 year lead up to the event. Hmmm. Pretty amazing huh. Kinda beats getting on invite to a camp in Fla. But shhhh its PDA so its fine

Anonymous said...

454 ..I dont think so. The ECNL was clearly the No1 . I dont think the GDA/ECNL will have a clear cut winner for a while. Maybe 2 years. A lot can happen in 2 years.

Anonymous said...

442. It may be. Money has a lot to do with it as well. The USSF mentality is trust us, we know what we are doing. My reply would be what evidence do I have of that? GDA was largely all about trust us. We know how to ID and train players. I dont think they do. we have kids that our kids havemeasured up very favorably against in the Full NT squad, on the U-23s, the U-20s. How? Where are all the older kids?

Anonymous said...

11:24 - I respectfully disagree. I think it will hit the ground running as the playbook is already there (i.e., ECNL) and many of the top players will be leaving to the GDA. Not all, probably, but many. That's all you need to make a difference.

Many didn't think GDA would happen. It is. My Vegas $$ is on USSF to get it up and running immediately in particular to counter the ECNL right away. Just what I see happening.

Anonymous said...

https://www.socceramerica.com/article/72741/roster-us-u-23-women-head-to-portland-and-orlan.html

Maybe message is being heard. Both rosters only have a few of the same players. This way others get looks as well.

Anonymous said...

123 I disagree. this is totally the wrong way around. By U-23 we should be getting an idea of where we are. The turnover SHOULD be at the younger ages. U-23 is in theory one step from the full team. If you are filling these camps with kids you have never looked at before then something is drastically wrong with your ID process.

Anonymous said...

1218 I dont know how oyu can think that when they have ALREADY lost at least 10pct of original intake before a ball has even been kicked. I know top teams who only have a 10 pct take up rate currently for GDA among the older age groups. Many kids want to play HS soccer and are not buying in to the need to aspire to a NT. they feel they are getting all they need from the ECNL.

The USSF cannot do anything to "get it up and running immediatley" becasue that is totally reliant on the consumer. Thats the problem. If they had done it properly, ALL places to the GDA would have been by USSF invitation. Much harder for a kid to turn that down. The current set up, you are going to Club coaches, and asking about the GDA to get info and make a decision. Many of those coaches do not believe in the GDA at all.so its hardly a ringing endorsement.

Its going to take a long time to shake out.

Anonymous said...

8:32 - well it's pretty evident there is an error in the process so now they are trying to address and fix it. You can't fix the error unless you admit you made one. So...

Anonymous said...

8:37 not sure how you are making that statement? If you have a crystal ball and can make predictions, surely you have won the lottery several times already, right??? I didn't think so.
ALL the kids I have spoken with in my area are trying out for GDA and some have already (some have to wait until after May 1st). There are people I know that their kids aren't trying out and are doing high school. But, in all likelihood, they would not have been a candidate and some are not ECNL now. So, I think they know their limitations already and are setting themselves accordingly.

Anonymous said...

Reading one of the above posts. ALL invitations to GDA would have been through USSF. That's funny.

ALL the invitations to the GDA were through USSF via their acceptance of the clubs. When you are opening up the player pool, you rely on your chosen clubs and their reps to take on the task of filling the slots. They are sending out the invites.

Look at the number of current ECNL participants. Do they care that they can not compete for a club level state championship and then regional title like the USYS teams? Not at all. And, some clubs have ECNL, NPL and USYS teams for this reason.

Anonymous said...

meant to say like the non-ECNL teams as far as competing for cups.
It's not just USYS that compete for state, regional, etc cups. It's NPL, and the rest as well.

Anonymous said...

842 Evidence of fixing it would be many new faces at U-15-16 and 17 , not U-23. New faces at U-23 suggest they got selection wrong , new faces at younger ages suggest they got the process wrong. Big difference.

Anonymous said...

847 how is it any different form the guy saying the opposite? its two people with different views sharing them on a forum. GDA is not a regional thing is it. Im glad your area is different , but surely success is reliant on National take up? Hence my comment that i think it will take a while to shake out. Not really controversial is it? Is going out on a limb far more to suggest that day one the USSF are going to make it work If its is/was such a no brainer, why have some big clubs pulled out ?

Anonymous said...

910 Very different proposition when the most powerful of those Clubs are on the board of an entity , the ECNL that clearly does NOT want you to succeed

Anonymous said...

How many big clubs have pulled out and NOT partnered GDA elsewhere? Very few.
It's telling to me that several clubs have pulled out of ECNL altogether that the success of the GDA will be immediate. Clearly those teams are not about the $$$ like ECNL earns. They are about development.
Will GDA be perfect? No. But, neither is ECNL or any other league.

Anonymous said...

9:16 - if they are doing it with the older ladies, I am hopeful they will do it with the younger ones as well. AND, the GDA will help take care of the problems with the younger ones, too.

The issue with the younger ones, as I see it, is that US is very successful with the kiddies; let's say U15 or U16 and younger. We usually dominate.

It's a mirage, though. Because, when those same kids don't get taller, stronger, faster, more athletic, get better soccer iq, etc as they get older and they need to be swapped out. Hence the issues with groups as they age. So, the immediate fix is at the top.

Anonymous said...

1018 we dominate at U-15 because we play CONCACAF teams that really dont have any infra structure at all. U-16 we dont dominate. U-17 we have never won the WC. makes no difference though. Its largely the same kids that were id'd at U14 ;)

Anonymous said...

When technical abilities including first touch that allows quick control of the ball and a few deceptive moves to create space and soccer IQ and vision are required to win at the highest levels we fail. We select for athletes which is ok with me but we can't allow them to rely on their athleticism and fail to develop their technique. Having said that I believe the inner technical players are wired to be able to be super technical. They have unusual athletic attributes including unusual balance, coordination and quickness that along with training results in the midfield magicians. We don't select them generally although perhaps rose Lavelle will prove one of these. In general though we are poor at selecting and developing these kids. They also tend to be late bloomers. Maybe part of their athleticism is associated with later puberty. Might be interesting to study. But also I think maybe because they have to rely on playing the ball very quickly so as not to get crushed while they are smaller. They develop great first touch. Great vision knowing where they are going to pass before they get the ball etc. yet we can also improve the gazelles so that they take the ball out of the air more cleanly etc. we can tech them how to manage double teams. We can teach them how to deal with the times that they are closed down. How to rewind the attack and get out of pressure. Obviously and more.

Anonymous said...

11:00 that is what 10:18 said. At U16 and above need to swap out the kids that didn't progress.

Anonymous said...

218 Please define progress? How do you judge progress? Is progress committing to Rutgers?

Anonymous said...

11:00

Its a CAMP followed by a WC TEAM chosen. No, its not the same year to year

May be a high percentage of same kids within the camp

Anonymous said...

240 ??????

Future said...

@3:15 must be a psa parent or coach you guys have o technical ability.You should have saw in Vegas kick and chase doesn't win

Anonymous said...

2:37 - touche'. :)

Anonymous said...

https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2017/03/20/20/38/20170320-news-u19wnt-klimkova-calls-up-26-players-for-training-camp-in-florida

Nice to see some region 1 represented. Rachel used to be PAC, left for PF few seasons ago...

Anyone have a link for roster for latest PDP?

Anonymous said...

http://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/rosters-schedule-announced-for-ecnl-northeast-metro-pdp-event/

Anonymous said...

Never really heard much about USSF coach Jitka Klimkova.

Anonymous said...

8:48
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jitka_Klimkov%C3%A1

A Czech Republic player. It is interesting that there are no high profile US players who wind up coaching the YN teams on the female side. I know that a few run camps or have private ventures. It would be interesting to see if any of the WC winning teams players are coaching at any level. Is it lack of interest on the part of the players or a conscious decision on the federation. There seems to be a lack of US influence in US soccer.

Anonymous said...

Thx 7:56

Anonymous said...

915 April Heinrichs ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Heinrichs

Not sure how much more INFLUENCE you want.

Anonymous said...

Of interest the 2000 and 2001 penn fusion pdp players were also PAC development players. Says a lot for Classics!

Anonymous said...

1015 . How do you think thee players are selected?

Anonymous said...

By playing for PF and Tino?
Do I get 3 guesses?

Anonymous said...

I think coaches rank players and Tino gets the final say as to the overall order and then they submit the list to whomever chooses the final PDP roster. Obviously not all clubs have the same number of players. Why FC Bucks got so many is beyond my comprehension. PDA sure they deserve a Lion's share.

How do you think it works. What outside non soccer performance based influence do you believe exists?

Anonymous said...

Do you think they put these kids in PDP to keep them happy so they don't look to PAC GDA next year? If so you must then also believe that PF values them so your argument is circular.

Anonymous said...

915
Gulati is friends with jill Ellis' dad. hence JE. All the youth NT coaches are associated with each other. Most commonly a UCLA connection. The 99ers are cut out. Michelle Akers has been critical of Ellis. It will take a major change to get her into the picture.

Anonymous said...

11:13 AM

Not sure how much rhyme or reason there is, looking at players my daughter plays with and against and then to see the list does not make much sense sometimes. I have seen players who are commiting to better Colleges that have never appeared on a PDP or ODP list. It's great bragging rights and will get some additional looks for un-comitted kids. There was a list for a US soccer event at Villanova and one of the players invited was a head scratcher as well. But then if you know a few who go and see the other connections (school, parent alumni) some of the outliers start making sense. There are some players that may get there on their own but I would say more than 50% have skills Plus connections.

Anonymous said...

Don't follow what is the us soccer list and Villanova reference?

Anonymous said...

To me, PDP is jsut another soccer camp. Reading the responses to 1035 is interesting

1113 I think many of these things come down to the coaches and the squeaky wheel. The coaches who make the most noise about it tend to get their players invited. There are also many many kids who turn it down , leading to the local clubs plugin in kids they know will replace at short notice. Clubs use this stuff as marketing. Wny do PDA deserve the lions share? I dont get why the prevailing wisdom is that PDA has the best players. they dont. have a monopoly on talent.

1114 i think some kids would rather not be there :)

Anonymous said...

10:51 - yes it says need to cut bait and go to Penn Fusion to excel.

Anonymous said...

10:52 - I was told as my daughter was selected for ECNL/PDP in a different conference that it was based on scouting reports at events and coaches from other teams. That is what is cool about this. The respect from the league and other teams, too.

Anonymous said...

The US Soccer/Villanova comment was regarding a Nat'l Training Center to be held there as a venue. It was canceled due to weather. I have younger ballers, too.
Anyway, has nothing to do with ECNL PDP as NTC is for the younger ones. I think they age out at like 15.

Anonymous said...

1:50 - I think the club running it gets to pick some kids that are not invited through the league. My daughter's invite came through ECNL Commish. I think PDA ran it this year, I heard.
And, I don't know many that turn it down; unless you are packing for NT camp this week and even that RD was there.
US Soccer scout may be there but college coaches (not including Rutgers) were there too.

Anonymous said...

coaches ...not just including Rutgers (she was part of the event coaching staff, too).

Anonymous said...

216 All of these things are only as good as tin integrity of the process and unfortunately there is none. Ill tell you a little story. A friend of mines daughter was never invited to a PDP or Id2 camp, in spite of the fact that every coach in the league feared her. Actually went to NT camp before ever getting an invite to a PDP.

Still believe its based on the other coaches ?

Anonymous said...

11:35 & 11:56 - that is part of the problem with US Soccer. They need to go outside their fifedom. Get different ideas and perspectives. This is why they make robots. Their hiring model is robotic.

Anonymous said...

2:39 - yes, it shows me that there are other avenues to NT. So, while you see glass half empty; I see half full.
I see that your buddy's daughter maybe didn't like being left off the list and took the rest of the season to show why she should not have been. That's a gamer. Congrats to her.

I am not ignoring the politics. Unfortunately it does happen a lot in soccer. My kid was a victim to it as well. She got pissed. And, she never had any coach kick in the door for her. She does it because she hated that taste knowing she was better and just didn't have a buddy in the system as a coach picking. But she used it as motivation.

Anonymous said...

248 i only tell the story becasue there are rose tinted glasses out there. the lack of integrity among the youth soccer folks is stunning. You need to keep your eyes open. there is very little objective impartiality in this stuff . it the biggest obstruction to development in the US.

Anonymous said...

2:52 - 2:48 here. Thank you and I agree. I am one of the ones in the rose colored glasses (maybe you can tell from my post), but I have my eyes WIDE open behind them. :) It's unfortunate as it's kids' sports, but that is what they have become.

Anonymous said...

10:15, Don't think all of the PF girls from Classics originated there or were there long. Can't give PAC that much credit.

Anonymous said...

Pretty sure the twins were there from u9-u12. The PDP kid actually came to an open PAC training this winter. Just blended didn't stand out. Not worried about the 99/00 PAC next year if that's the best of PF

Anonymous said...

349 its funny. the kid got scholarship offers from big soccer schools in 8th grade, but could not get invited to a PDP or ID2 camp. Makes sense right?

Hate haters said...

This blog is for haters,maybe if your kids trained harder they could make pdp.Then maybe be seen my kid plays for the hated Pda and we are into pdp and I can tell you there are 12 year olds there that could hang with 90 percent of u16/17 yes I said it 12 year olds so get over your hatred cause your kids didn't make it and train.

Anonymous said...

That sounds like garbage to me. Any kid with eight grade offers at "big soccer" schools is going to PDP. So not consistent with reality.

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Anonymous said...

902 its a fact. Hard to believe, yes, but a fact. Dont want to name names, but if I did , there are several readers of this blog who would confirm it

Anonymous said...

Even if this is true and except for parents' ego, I just can't accept for one second that an 8th grader should be making verbal commits to anything whatsoever!
imho...

Boon town said...

Last post I Agree however I think some are saying don't put down pdp.Also my daughter is in it and I watch ever week seventh graders compete as if they were 16/17.

Anonymous said...

918 who said she committed? Not much you can do about unsolicited interest? There are a few kids who committed in 8th grade. Does not make then better players.

Anonymous said...

Well if we are talking about Rutgers and their eighth grade PDA kids. I get it. PDA may have their national level super studs get invited to PDP and widen the Rutgers offers to the excellent, but not topmost 8th graders the coaches see frequently and have a good handle on. But no I don't believe that an 8th grader getting "unsolicited" interest and then that turns into an offer meaning the kid has visited etc not getting a PDP invite is widespread reality. The 8th grade interest does not support that this is a late bloomer kid. Further you say she went to national camp? All the u14/15 YNT kids are invited to PDP. Some choose not to attend as a superfluous event for them.

If your story it true then this is a one time situation not a rampant example of a egregiously flawed system. I know the kids at the NE PDP and sure, there could have been a kid or two also invited, the lines are not hard and fast between kids, but in general the choices are obvious. The metro section was smaller than usual because it was held indoors. Instead of 14 or so per team there was 11 so the gray zone kids can be even more questioned as to who got it versus who didn't/ What I thought was remarkable was how many Bucks kids were invited and how few many more successful teams were putting into the mix.

Anonymous said...

937 I just dont see it in the same light as many do. The biggest reasons is the feedback I get for participants.Many of the kids who attend tell me they dont get much from it outside of social interaction. I know 4 players who were invited this year who turned it down basis their experience last year. That is a pretty negative observation.

1056 I cant tell you if its rampant or not. I do know that any selection process that relies heavily on people who have a vested interest in doing certain things for commercial benefit is subject to abuse. Especially in a sport that parents are not so knowledgeable about. The club make up of these events often reflect the fact that original invites cancel and they replace with local kids. I dont think the choices are obvious at all.

Good discussion

Anonymous said...

What percentage of PDP kids have been to national camp? Quite a few. Even if you think that the national camp selection process is flawed (as do I), it's hard to argue against those kids being included. PDA were national champs at 99/00 last year hard to argue with any of those kids inclusion. I scratch my head at all the Bucks kids, but I don't know of any better kids left behind. There were only a couple of CFC kids. I guess all the clubs need to have some representation. The PF kids I think at least half were national campers. WC the same their kids included are top shelf and both those clubs didn't have huge numbers for their relative success. Matchfit low numbers but again who is better? Who knows at WNY? Anyone with comments regarding the other divisions, but sure given selection bias there could be an argument here or there, but aggregious errors? Not really

Anonymous said...

March 27 4:59. Bucks website lists 2018 kids as going to Brown, Columbia, Notre Dame, St.Josephs, Bucknell, Bloomsburg. I don't know who went to PDP but they must have good players?
http://www.crusa.net/fc-bucks-premier/college-commitments

Anonymous said...

932 sorry,but that is really funny. All but Notre Dame are middle or lower end roster ECNL level committments. Bloomsburg is NPL level. Seriously, bucks got a crazy disproportionate share of the PDP roster. No idea why given their history or lack there of

Anonymous said...

march 2017 10:00. Maybe they are. I don't know enough about ECNL committments at the other ECNL clubs. I know my daughter would be happy to play at some of those colleges. playing and studying at Brown, Columbia, or Notre Dame should deserve congratulations, not something to shake your head at. Where have the 2018s from other clubs at the PDP committed to. I would guess PDA has strongest list. What about PF and CFC?

Anonymous said...

Look it up

Anonymous said...

I looked up the other PA ECNL teams. It didn't appear that the colleges such as Brown , Bucknell, St. Joes are lower end of roster committments like you suggest. Each 2018 team had maybe 2 or 3 players that had committed to stronger programs. I would think that those committments are at the higher end of the ECNL rosters. If I am incorrect I would welcome an example of a 2018 team that these colleges would be mid to lower level roster.
The number of players committed to study and play at good schools from all the ECNL teams is encouraging.

Anonymous said...

1058
I am not sure what you looked up but on the PF website there top of the roster kids going to UNC, UVA, Duke, Va Tech, Northwestern. The kids who didn't do to PDP are more often committing to midmajors, Ivys etc. I don't think anyone is saying these Bucks kids aren't going to good schools, but their commitments support the original premise that some kids invited to PDP are there for political reasons while other superstar kids getting "top" offers in 8th grade are excluded. Those Bucks commitments actually support that something fishy is happening because kids with PDP invitations should be top of the roster kids going to power 5s on significant scholarships. That they aren't, raises a flag especially since Bucks was afforded so generous an allotment of PDP slots this time around.

Anonymous said...

459 Im not aware of many national campers who went to Pdp. You make it sound like there are/were several. I did not know we had that many in our division of the ECNL.

Anonymous said...

1058 not OP, but when discussing soccer as a sport in itself as opposed to a means to a College degree, you will get varying opinions. From a soccer PoV those school;s are not top level. Academically, they clearly are. So it depends how you are assessing the schools. As a measure of soccer excellence, they dont count for much. Are kids to be congratulated for going there, of course ? Top schools.

When you associated those commits, with soccer excellence you open the door for the reply you got. Clever ids who are ok at soccer fill those rosters with a few high level players who want an Ivy education. All great choices though

Anonymous said...

Anyone doubt that the kids going to UVA, Duke, and UNC (harder entry than Yale out of state) couldnt have gone Ivy or patriot league? - Nope.
Any doubt that the Ivy and patriot league would have been able to play soccer at all much less receive a scholarship in the ACC- Yup...

Anonymous said...

There were indeed more than several.

99,00,01 all well represented.

Anonymous said...

935 more than several what ? A national team player is technically one who has represented the US in competition. A kid who has been to one camp in the last 3 years does not qualify for me, but may for you. I dont think there are several of the former, maybe a few of the latter.

Anonymous said...

Specifically noted camp invitees in the original post 459 for your refenernce ye of short memory..., Camp invitations, despite you commentary does indicated some objective accomplishment that would support a pdp invitation- the original point of the post. And yes, several have been "capped" in YNT international events.

Anonymous said...

9:33 - I disagree. I know kids going to Patriot League and Ivys that are on US soccer radar and at PDP's. Several should have been out there already but for the politics.
At least a few that had very generous offers at schools from various conferences including ACC. Don't be a conference snob. Oh, Midge P. was a top pick at NWSL draft (Harvard).

Many power 5 schools are at home watching NCAA's. Some kids want to make a program better and be that cinderella team. Some want to join one already strong. It's nice to have choices for those talented and smart kids.

The last few years, the top 16 teams have varied a lot. And the same team has not won in quite a few years. The once dominating programs are getting competition from all the conferences. And that is what we are seeing internationally as well at the NT level, the gap is closing. It's good to see.

Anonymous said...

11:54 - I agree as well. Just to get that level of additional training makes them an asset to their team as they will raise the playing level around them. Isn't that the point?

Anonymous said...

12:09 - I agree with you too. Many want to play right away and in some big programs some may have to wait at least a year or so in the "system."
And, some in the big programs may never see significant playing time at all as some of the roster is the practice team. Some kids forced out by not getting any playing time and opening up a roster spot after a transfer. Not trying to be a buzz kill, but that is the reality of college sports.

Anonymous said...

Sorry those Bucks kids going IVy and patriot wouldn't get a sniff at upper level power 5s. maybe like Indiana, Pitt or something, but no way Duke, UNC, and UVA. Again the point of the post was specific to PDP invitations.

Anonymous said...

So several in that conference. Sorry. I must have missed that. Or maybe we define several differently.

Anonymous said...

3/25 @ 7:37 - love your post. Agree. You don't get better just going to practice. That's only part of it.

Anonymous said...

1:22 - please explain??

Anonymous said...

1154. I dont think anyone said what you are suggesting. the comment was insinuating that in some cases PDP invites are not a indicator of quality. Here is why. they are distributed across the teams in a conference. SO if team A has 15 players worthy, they will be passed over for lesser player on a less represented team. Coach As PDP lvl may well not be Coach Bs.

I personally think PDPs are a waste of time and yet another product designed to make us feel we are getting our "moneys worth" .I dont understand the need to be "recognized", but thats my view Everyone is entitled to one.

Anonymous said...

1214 really? i dont think the 2 are in any way linked. Some kids may have that quality, but I would be it is VERY few. If a kid trains 4 days per week, does going to a PDP make any difference at all? Probably not

Anonymous said...

1209 Cmon man. The person is not being a snob at all. he is just responding to a comment that said those commits MUST equal a bunch of great players. Your arguments are very flawed Surely the biggest challenge is joining a very strong program and making that even better.? Thats great for Purce, but no one said it was impossible. there are great players at those schools . there are just more at USC or UCLA or Duke. None of which are academic pushovers either.

The top 16 have not varied that much. The core is largely the same. The gap that you refer to is more a case that coaching and tactics are leveling the playing field. quickly.

Go look at any single elimination event and tell me that the same team wins often. They dont. I think you could make a strong case that the ACC regular season title is the hardest thing to win . Harder than the College cup in many ways. What FSU manged to do is unbelievable.

An At NT level, I dont thin there ever was a technical or tactical gap. The USA just had more players. Once other countries reach that critical mass, the extra players the US has at the margin become irrelevant.

Anonymous said...

1:32 - from my read, the comment you are addressing had to do with NT camp not PDP. And I agree with the prior poster. Getting add'l training at NT camp worth it.

Anonymous said...

is a pdp better than going to the local gym and playing a pick up game with boys and girls? we spend all this time trying to institutionalize development. We put fancy names on it and limit access to kids we choose. not on the basis of ability necessarily, but all sorts of other things. Those who are invited thinks its great. Why? becasue they are invited I guess. there is a pride to it.I get it. Those who dont get invited either try to get invited or sulk. Try tog et invited could mean all sorts of things from training harder to parents trying to influence the coach.

Ill take the kid who trains hard and often out of the spotlight all day.

Just my 2c

Anonymous said...

Oh and 1:32 - training 4 days a week with your same team isn't the same in getting add'l training from very good coaches and competing against other high level soccer kids, unless your team is top to bottom with them. Most aren't.

Anonymous said...

1:56 - usually they are the same kids.

Anonymous said...

159 playing indoor games and doing a training session for a random coach over 2 days is a blip on the radar. There is more than enough competition all year round and as far as training goes, thats for you to asses. i dont beleive in the theory you are stating. You can train with players far better than you or worse, its all about how accountable you hold yourself to your own standards.

Anonymous said...

1:59 - agreed. I have seen some kids practice hard against their teammates because they are familiar with them and become invisible or take off plays during a game. Practice isn't always a good indicator of performance, either.

Anonymous said...

155 NT camp maybe. the debate is about PDP, thats not NT camp.

Anonymous said...

200 maybe, but the point is I think you get far more form one than the other.

Anonymous said...

2;07 - and that is it in a nutshell, it is the standards that you hold for yourself. Correct. No excuses, just you and the mirror. As a player, are you doing what you can to make yourself and your team better? That is what separates great from good.

Anonymous said...

214 thats my point all along. We like to dress all this up. PDp. Id2 GDA ECNL, HS , no HS all these thigs are only valuable if you set your own standards and try and exceed them. There are far too many "awards" out there in soccer for very limited achievement. And we wonder why our kids dont seem to push themselves to be great. We are telling them that all the time though our actions. We need to make excellence actually count for something instead of setting the bar low enough for several kids to hop over it. That means standards of play, behavior and accountability.

Wont happen. Everyone wants a trophy, very few want to work.

The Auriemma post game comments are spot on.

Anonymous said...

Amen.
I was listening to parents on my kid's team shout "good job" to many stupid plays this weekend. Stupid. We are U17/U18. We need to stop giving out kudos for sub-par play.

Most parents don't even get it. They don't see the players that are covering for their kid because she has no idea what she is doing. They are too busy saying...great job my little princess. Meanwhile the kids that are killing themselves because little princess should not even be on the field, THEY get the kudos.

Sick of the soccer snowflakes.

Anonymous said...

208.
The national team camp reference was used to say that a significant number of pdp participants had also been recognized by the Ussf as top players by having invited them to national camp. While I believe their selection is often flawed, it is difficult to argue that those kids were at pdp because the pdp selection process is grossly corrupt. So take them out of the questionable pool and look at what's left. There will always be bubble players that you can make an argument should have been selected over another player. That is not corruption at work it's simply human nature to prefer one player type over another.

Having said that, there were some interesting anamolies in the selections. There was some huge variations in player quality. That seemed to reflect over all club strength and depth. Some clubs recognized that depth was limited and didn't send a large number of kids others not so much insight. Some players struggled mightily. Interestingly some of the most lauded defenders really had difficulty with the pace. Shouldn't be surprised since as I reference above the Ussf clearly is in a shambles. Who has any confidence in the intelligence and integrity of the Feds after the u17/20 World Cup shambolic debacle and the Ussf subsequent decisions to elevate these same players and coaches to higher levels as if they had won instead of lost. Further lost playing embarrassing soccer at that.

I simply don't believe the story provided above with no detail of some super stud 8th grader getting "top" offers. Then getting invited to national camp and not getting a pdp invitation. First off the story implies the kid is older because he says she earned a later national camp invitation. 8th grade offers are very rare even now (except for Rutgers and pda) but almost unheard of longer than 4 years ago. Were there any kids left off the recent roster who have been to even a single national team camp? Maybe one or two older kids who were early bloomers and had been to a u14 camp or two. But most likely none of the more recent invitees. So yes I call out that guy as full of it.

Every time a roster like this comes out and someone brings it up there will be haters. Haters of the selection process, haters of program itself, and indeed of the kids. I think if a kids name is showing up publicly on lists of accolades it opens them up to and frankly invites scrutiny. Comes with the territory. These aren't little kids any more.

Anonymous said...

636 i dont really understand parts of your post, but its interesting that you say a significant number. How nany? People seem reluctant to give a number.. I am not aware of a large number of consistent NT invitees in our conference that just held Pdp. Im happy to be proven wrong.

The story told was an anecdote and is 100 pct true. I dont know how rare 8th grade offers are because you would only hear about them if the kid accepted. The point of the story was to contradict a post that suggested PDP invitations were the result of all the coaches getting together and objectively selecting players. Unless things have changed dramatically, its your coach who submits and its pretty rare that another coach is going to object. You scratch my back and all that. Its even rarer that when a coach leaves an obvious candidate off that list, the other coaches will say what about .....

"Every time a roster like this comes out and someone brings it up there will be haters."
Put me in the camp that thinks these things serve very little purpose. Just another training session. My be valuable to some kids in unique circumstances, butt he further away you live , the less point in attending. I dont call that being a hater. if you think its valuable, great. Spcifically for my kids, its not. Too far and no additional benefits over what they currently do.

Anonymous said...

Um so your kid was invited and declined? Do you spend money to take your kids to showcase tournaments?

Last year there were college coaches lining the fields watching the play. This year less so probably because it was inside, but there was a good representation of top level coaches there. It was free exposure, two nice Nike shirts and a pair of shorts more than paid for the gas. The hotel for one night was minimal with points and terrific time was had playing with great kids and receiving terrific coaching from a top D1 coach. What's not to like there?

The top players will be scouted for national ECNL camp also free except travel. Its a resume booster for those who need it. Honestly don't see how it should be condemned as not worthy of a kids time unless they have recently returned from Jordan...

I am aware of, I think, 4 kids who were at that camp who have been capped in the YNT programs. Probably three times that many have been to at least one camp. No I am not going back and checking rosters...There was a drop off though from top to bottom.

I know each coach puts a rank order list in. I don't know how the club allotment is determined. There was indeed a head scratcher on how many Bucks kids were there.

Anonymous said...

Totally off topic but hopefully insightful. This board provides an opportunity to be supportive of soccer parents but serves more to divide us. I hope this post is helpful.

While watching my daughters games this weekend I noticed many coaches (college “Scouts”) coming an going throughout the matches. Some stayed for a half others watched for about 15 minutes and moved on. Most of them congregated on the team side of the field at one of the end lines/corners but while standing there a coach came up next to us, put down his chair and got out his roster sheets and watched the 2nd half of one of the games he coaches a school I was not familiar with and believe my daughter is not interested in attending so I took the opportunity to engage in conversation as I have been listing to what others think the purpose of the coach is at a game. It was very informative. He said that for some games he watches to see if anyone catches his eye, if he is there for a specific player he will watch her but will not only focus on her but take the opportunity to look at the other players as well. Sometimes he knows the coach of one of the teams and is there because of that relationship as well as knowing the style of play. He said he will watch games where there was no player contact as time permits. The purpose of attending is multi-faceted, he was invited by a player (initial contact), a player attended an ID camp and he would like to see them play with their team, or as previously said he wanted to make the best use of his time and truly scouts. Based on why he is there and what he sees he may reach-out to a player with the typical Camp email – not a personal email but the e-mail blast and if the player shows up she gets on his radar. If the player invited him he will wait to see if she follows up and respond (I did not want to press him but in hindsight I should have asked how he would let the player know he was no longer interested). It sounds like the process is two-fold for your player, reach-out to coaches and invite them to games, follow-up after the games and thank the coach for attending (out manager does a good job of capturing who attends). Also, don’t discount the email blasts for ID and camps, if the coaches name was on the list as attending a game, you receive an invite, and you are interested in the program you may want to attend the ID session or camp.

My daughter invited three coaches, one emailed her directly, one asked if she would like to schedule an overnight visit to the school, and the 3rd invited her to their ID clinic.

Anonymous said...

903 correct. if it works for you, great. it depends on your training environment, but they get " terrific coaching from a top D1 coach." 3 days a week. They dont need exposure or Nike T shirts :) As far as the Jordan comment, I dont get it. Training is training and all Im saying is they are very challenged in the environment they are in. PDP provides nothing extra or better. If its worth your time, thats great. I said its not worth it for us. You make your own judgement. I just query the assumption that it is universally great .

I am also in the camp that think travel is excessive, period. There is plenty of training and quality competition in this area. The only reason for an elite player to travel is to help provide a balanced competitive environment for other payers to be evaluated by College coaches. We take the show on the road to Coaches can one stop shop at great cost to parents. Sure there are some ancillary benefits, but those could be achieved in many other ways.

4 kids =/= several to me, but thank you for providing a number. There is no Club allotment and often the closest Clubs provide the ballast for the kids who decline to attend.

I do appreciate your PoV, I just dont share it, but that all good. Have a great season and good luck to you and your kids.

Anonymous said...

PDP has several functions only one of which is training. The others are exposure to national scouts A report is filed with the USSF to be added to the player database after this event. Also the kids are then potentially also identified for the annual national event. We can only discuss what this has meant in the past since with the GDA the significance of these ECNL ID events is clearly in question. there is also exposure to college coaches. This was cheaper than a showcase and provided good opportunity to non committed kids (younger ages) The other function is simply recognition of accomplishment and PDP on a resume is helpful again for the non committed kids.

The Jordan comment was to say that the only kids who usually consider declining to attend are kids who are already well in the YNT system and there fore are also usually committed and dont need the USSF exposure. However, that said, there were several of those in attendance in Pottstown. In case you didn't know the u17 WC took place last fall in Jordan...

Anonymous said...

at the older ages, how many PDP attendees fall into the

well in the YNT system and there fore are also usually committed and dont need the USSF exposure

This is U16/U17 blog right? Im sure some kind of event for younger kids has value. Not usre its a pdp tho. Out of interest, how many USSF scouts were there? How many College coaches were there? What schools? Who files this report to USSF?



Anonymous said...

Like anything else. It has whatever value you want to give it. If you think not worth your/your kid's time, should you receive another invite, decline. Don't take a spot, then. My kid had a great time and experience.

Someone above said playing in a pick up game has more value. Well, this is just that. It's a very high level pick up game without refs. These are some high level, very competitive and very skilled soccer junkie kids. Some are teammates. Some are club mates. And some don't normally play together at all as they are on different teams. But they meet and play, all out, for each other and themselves.

And, the coaches were great and provided good tips and instruction too. To me, it's always good to network and get to know others in the soccer world.

The energy was intense and quite competitive. These kids know each other or of each other. They also get to meet other soccer junkies and become friends. The respect for each other's talent was apparent. It's nice to see that with our young ladies.

Anonymous said...

3:35 - I agree. My daughter attended and always appreciates the opportunity of adding more knowledge and skill to her game. She had a great experience as well. And, I had the opportunity of meeting some very nice parents from other teams.

Anonymous said...

I agree my kid attended. It was hard to tell how many coaches because the indoor venue was set up in a way that you couldn't see up and down the sideline. I saw at least 5 d1 coaches there. This might be a gross underestimation. Of course there was also the Rutgers coach. Last year there were dozens. There is a USSF rep there and he files the report. I have no idea who he was- the guy wearing the crest.

Anonymous said...

335 Can you accept that to some kids it is of limited value? Sounds like you cant. I can totally see why kids would decline.

Anonymous said...

4:03 - of course I can. It's not for everyone and things come up.
It was nice to see kids that were leaving for NT camp there as well as those just coming back. They could have declined, but didn't.
ALL of this is whatever you want to get out of it and that isn't universal; it's player/family specific.

Anonymous said...

I'm not someone in the know so take it for what it's worth.

With regards to PDP, the rumor going around is PF was stripped of running and hosting by ENCL out of spite once the decision was made by the club to go DA. They were also to have more players present but ECNL allocated those spots to clubs within the conferences they deemed "Loyal".

Could be the reason why the selection process looks questionable.

Anonymous said...

Maybe but why wouldn't CFC have had more than 3 or MF more than 5?
You realize these are picks from all the conference ECNL teams U19-U15.

Anonymous said...

Adding to above - and WC only 4?

Anonymous said...

And bucks 7???

Anonymous said...

I heard the same that penn fusion got stripped of the privilege of running it. But they seemed to have a reasonable representation. Bucks way too many and CFC none from 00 is kind of harsh. WC and MF seemed light. Many kids from PDA not invited were better than other teams' best players...

Anonymous said...

Continental FC had 1 1999, 1 2000 and 2 2001 players at the PDP.

Anonymous said...

Okay, I see that on roster. One left due to injury. Forgot to include in my initial count. t/y

Anonymous said...

403. the only kids I have ever known to refuse was a kid who went to Jordan or player who are injured. Does your kid even play in the ECNL? No Top player who has aspirations for a ynt camp or return to camp would refuse the invitation. Many invited are on the ynt radar and get an extra entry into the database by attending. The national ecnl camp was attended by April Heinrichs and from that camp she took several players with the u18s to England shortly thereafter.

I still don't think you even understand what it was. Did anyone refuse to attend NTC training? Refuse to attend the NTC combine? No you are right. I don't understand why someone would not see the value in PDP. My belief is that the only ones who attempt to dimish it's value are those on the outside looking in. Human nature: devalue what you can't have so it isn't as painful to be excluded.

Anonymous said...

1255 Because its so valuable to you, you cannot possibly comprehend that it may not be to someone else. Its the same as the pro vs anti HS argument. you resort to even questioning my comprehension of the soccer landscape and the natural order of things. I did not diminish its vale . I said its not valuable to some kids. If its valuable to you, thats fine. Im glad it works for you.



Anonymous said...

In regards to numbers at PDP and distribution by club. FC Bucks and CFC are about the same level of play so seeing more bucks kids then continental is strnage, not sure if ECNL has an axe to grind with continental. Continental's 00 team will not be spectacular this year either so that may be the reason for no invites. The coach brought up all of the younger players, maybe in the long run it will work but this will be a "Trust The Process" year at least.

Anonymous said...

there really is no conspiracy. The ONLY way to assess that would be to know the original list of invitees. I know , in spite of some, that many players did not choose to attend. So from that point on the whole 60 "best" players thing and the composition becomes moot.

Anonymous said...

Yeah its not valuable to kids in the top .000001% who don't need it because they are getting multiple international caps without it and its not valuable to kids who have no hope of making the national pools.

Any other groups i am missing? Don't know ANY kids with a legitimate shot of inclusion who would ignore an invitation to PDP. Do you? Which group am I missing? Articulate your position more specifically.

Anonymous said...

PDP is the "All League" Equivalent to High School with the added benefit of a training session. ...Mic Drop

Anonymous said...

1033 I think you overstate its importance. A kid with a solid commitment from a good school who has other things to do on the weekend is a clear candidate to decline. It does not have to be more complicated than that. Heck, the kid may not even have a commitment. A kid already practicing with a good club who does not want to devote another weekend to soccer may decline. Not every talented girl is a soccer junkie. The value in their "development: is minimal. National team selection is probably not going to be tilted one way or the other and i can tell you as fact that a dominant player in the league is going to be invited to the national event whether they go to Pdp or not.

Anonymous said...

10:52 - laughable. All league yes, but in ECNL, currently the 1st tier of youth soccer. Now, my mic dropped.
To even remotely compare it to high school where kids play that are not even soccer players let alone top tier, shows your lack of understanding.

Anonymous said...

11:37 - yes, at least a kid or two may have declined as they were already heading to or were packing for NT camp. But at least one packed her bags after the PDP session.

Anonymous said...

And, you are right. A dominant player in the league may be invited if attending PDP or not. But, some players don't play on full squads of dominant players. So, to get them surrounded by mostly high level players and see how they fit in seamlessly is part of the evaluating process too. You realize they just don't look at just skills?

Anonymous said...

101 . You keep referring to Rachel Dorwart. She has been off the NT radar for a while, Im glad she is getting another look. maybe she went to stay sharp for camp. Point is I have no idea, but I do know of several NON NT players who declined. This has nothing to do with NT camp. You seem to think that the only way is NOT valuable is if the kid is an International.

there are kids getting enough training closer to home that dont have any desire to attend because they dont see the value. I personally spoke to a kid who said, I went last year and it was a waste of time. the coach who ram it favored his Clubs players and I got nothing out of it. I believe her and know that some others feel the same way,

its a lot more than a kid or 2. I reckon that of the original say 60 invited and least 20 pct decline.

Anonymous said...

12:54 PM

10:52 here. You so want to prove your worthiness. The point to make was not about the equivalency of High School to ECNL, my point was that it is just another bragging right. Both are lists generated based on bias more than ability and both add a feather to the caps of those that are on the list. There is probably some merit to each but to debate how it impacts an individual player across a mass Blog is laughable. I think most will agree that any player in the ECNL who is 1-11 should be on the list. If the submissions are DOC and coach recommendations that are then reviewed by some panel maybe they are vetted. If there is no review then it is mostly favors to players/families from the coach/DOC. Unless someone definitively knows the process it is all speculation for why they get on the list. Does anyone think these are scouted at the ECNL level and invites with no Club involvement?

Anonymous said...

9:15 - hmmm. Are you hinting that the brain trusts of ECNL wanted the PF/Continental merger to have occurred?

Anonymous said...

In 2016-2017, there will be eleven such programs taking place across the country, with every ECNL Club assigned to one either based upon their conference or their geographic location. The ECNL PDPs will bring together the top 60 players within the conference or geographic region for a weekend of training, competition, and education. Each ECNL PDP will include approximately 60 players: 30 from the 1998/1999 age groups, and 30 from the 2000/2001 age groups.

The above is from the ECNL website. So it does look like nepotism plays a role.

Anonymous said...

1:11 - and maybe that kid thought that about last year, but this year it was run by different coaches (including some from other conferences) and had different structure. It was much more intense.

Anonymous said...

Btw - 60 not invited. They intentionally kept down the numbers. I think it was 45.

Anonymous said...

Lol not going to PDP because a kid has something better to do on the weekend? Sure ... right. Those kids aren't selected. They are the soccer junkies. The only kid I know who said no was packing her bags for Florida. That's understandable. All the other kids were happy to be included. Those just below the line disappointed. Good enough to be invited? You go. You represent yourself and your club and maybe something else comes of it. You think the club doc and coaches are ok with a kid declining because they have something better to do? Lol you don't understand high level club soccer at all. No way your kid is of the level.

Of course there are scouts to watch ID'd kids further and a dominant player who did not attend pdp might be included in the national camp. So what? Does that mean that she shouldn't attend pdp if available -no it doesn't. In fact there are very few players that are so clearly destined for inclusion.

Anonymous said...

1:15 - aren't these not 1-11 per roster, but per Club?

Anonymous said...

129 something better to do could be a different training session, it could be rest, it could be a whole variety of athletic things. You really dont get ti do you? Pdp just is not that important to everyone. If a kid shows up for the ECNL season in top shape an pays well do you really think a Pdp makes any difference at all? Its hilarious that you keep telling me I dont understand soccer. and yet you have no idea who I am. Maybe I just see the path differently to you. Maybe I just dont buy in to what is being sold and encourage my kids to follow their own path and to trust the coaches they believe in?

At no point have I claimed to know more or less than you, just that Pdp is not important to some kids. I stand by that and once again- if its important to you, thats great.

You last statement is just ridiculous. Kids train and play for different reasons. You seemed to be drawing some significance from the Pdp in the context of a National event. All im saying is they are not really linked. Pdp is jsut another training session to some kids and some will go and some wont. Not sure why you are trying to make it into something more.

My kid may not be of the level, but she was invited. So I guess the level is just not that high.

Anonymous said...

123 irrelevant really. the point is the kid was not willing to find out. She declined.. OP keeps suggesting that no one would decline it. ODP. My kids have never wanted to do it. Never done it. Does that mean is bad? Of course not. Pdp is no different really. Its just another representative opportunity to be "seen" If oyu value that , great. If you dont feel the need, more power to you. No idea why the one guy seems to have such a hard time accepting it. Is it because he feels that it somehow cheapens the achievement? Of course it does not .

I bet if you asked a pool of girls if the best players were there, they would say no, not all of them . Several missing. Its really no big deal

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