Monday, April 23, 2018

U18 (2000) Girls Youth Soccer

This page is focused on Under 18 girls youth soccer, primarily in Region 1 and everyone is invited to post.

Teams face increased competition for the top players, (who are increasingly attending college showcases).

More teams consolidate and the best teams--academy soccer, club soccer and high school teams--battle to attract and retain the right player mix.

Stay tuned. This is bound to be good.

3,216 comments:

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Anonymous said...

i think the pda and pf discussions have ended. it was pda and fcva. but now it is pda has been wronged because of lack of call-ups? am i correct?

Anonymous said...

Two of the three recent national kids have unusual characteristics that distinguish them. One is very big strong and fast with above average skills. The other is ltrack speed fast. The third is technically sound but not spectacularly gifted. She is small and lacks break away speed. She looks and plays very similarly to several players on pda who could also have gotten the nod just as easily if not more so. Not anything really distinguishing above many others. So what do the scouts see?

Well I don't see any political advantage to PF over PDA. So no idea there. Obvious weird situation with a McLean employee serving as the Atlantic GDA highest level scout and technical director. Can you say Heinrich is full of it? Obviously with the kids from McLean suddenly surfacing with the director announcement they are still "scouting" from the ecnl. Oh and the internationals who couldn't even make the Chicago bottom level? 4 national quality players. Suuuuure. And where are all the new kids the GDA was supposed to uncover? Not. FC stars uh huh... and onward that's just the top of the iceberg.

Anonymous said...

it is not obvious what the YNT staff are looking for. they will take kids to Camps and not give them a real chance to show what they can do. Lots of buzz words and tactical stuff, but at times that is overemphasized at the expense of who can actually go out on the field in a game, under pressure and actually perform. There are too many good practicers selected. Kids who know the drills, feel comfortable in that environment and are secure in the knowledge that they will be picked. You see ti as soon as they hit College you wonder how some of them ever got so many caps. Look at PSU. Several red shirted for the U20 WC and this year where are they? Underwhelmed so far, but loaded with YNT players. Coached by an ex staff member as well.

I get the tactical part of it, but part 1 is to establish who can actually PLAY. then go from there. We are selecting to many kids based on drills and Beep tests.

Anonymous said...

We are too often not picking the "ballers" into the YNT programs those are the kids who truly love the game, watch it religiously, study the play of their "hero" players and emulate it to the best of their abilities. We instead are picking the rule follower practice players. We seem to think that the ones who follow the directions best are the best choices when we should be looking for those who think outside the box to solve the infinite problems a game presents.

Anonymous said...

doesnt' that happen with club as well? they pick the kids that do well in drills, but come game time can't transfer the skills or iq.
probably explains the epic fails at WC's with YNT.

Anonymous said...

No I don't think so. Most of tryouts is game evaluation. Kids recruited outside of tryouts to clubs are so recruited because of their game performance. There is no way for a club to judge their training performance.

Anonymous said...

Clearly the WC performance should have been a reflection on tthe coaches ability to choose players and coach them. They were not fired they were promoted.

Anonymous said...

and they are essentially still electing the same players and if not them , then the same type. Problem is they view every camp as incremental time put into a player. so if you have been to 10 camps, they are reluctant to drop you. you are past the point of no return. The job of the USSF is not to develop players. Its to find them. I would favor fewer camps and trips abroad and that money devoted to more scouting. better scouting. Higher camp turnover, more time between camps to allow kids to work on the things they are told they need to improve.

It wont happen, becasue those in charge like it this way. Its prestigious for them and they are not held accountable.

This is not about who is selected, its about the process. Probably the wrong place to say this but Ill say it anyway. I bet the FC Stars kids who are not being selected do not know why. I bet the PF kids have no idea why all of a sudden they are back in favor either. If its club form, then why are the Internationals kids selected? And not just selected, but starting the majority of games, even intra squad. Yes there should be competitive games to evaluate, but to evaluate EVERYBODY. Its self fulfilling that kids who have been in the system for 18m probably know HOW the coach wants to play as opposed to a kid who has not been in camp for a year. Its an even bigger advantage if your CLUB coach is there as you are probably familiar with what they want and how they evaluate.

The system should NOT be about validating what a coach already thinks. Its should be about finding the players s that can be used in a variety of ways to contribute to success. Not picking the kids who know the drills and the game plan. Especially when at youth level, that plan has led to some pretty poor soccer and results. Even the 20s who got to the semis, played some truly dire soccer.

Hate to say it, but we just dont get it. GDA is not going to change this as long as it has the same people in charge.

Anonymous said...

232
what do you mean? i have never seen a club coach come watch a kid during games before bringing them aboard. it's try-outs with drills and smalled sided games and maybe word of mouth from kids on the team.

Anonymous said...

Most of the "poaching" comes when a coach sees a kid playing for another team against his own. He then recruits her to his own club

Anonymous said...

Tryouts are usually small sided game based. Kids on the ball alot never seen a tryout include drills other than possession or a rondo to warm up

Anonymous said...

It's the mind game of US Soccer. They play it with the senior teams as well, I've heard. why do you think they are heading overseas? This is not a US sport. The true US sports have better farm systems. It's a foreign sport that US has adopted. The academy systems overseas are much better.

Anonymous said...

431 of course poaching does. we aren't talking poaching. we are talking about kids in various settings being judged and getting picked based on nailing drills instead of games play. kids on my daughter's team are wonderful in practice. they feel comfortable. in game setting when it counts, they can't figure it out. that is what is happening in us soccer, too. and game time is when it really matters.

Anonymous said...

Who does drills for tryouts? If i took one of mine to a tryout and they were doing passing drills to select players we'd be gone in a second

Anonymous said...

@4:32 agreed. and how does that work? they pick kids that are good going around cones and in small sided games can make a correct run. it's a lot easier to make a correct run in a small sided game then a big field. it's also easier to know your opponent/teammates "tell" which you may not know in a game.

Anonymous said...

drills are more than just passing. but you see alot about a passing drill; how they hit the ball; how they control the ball; if they look up or not; if they can pass it on the ground with pace; if they use both feet, etc. you can tell alot in what you deem as just a passing drill.
and believe it or not, i see kids that can't do all of the above on good teams.

Anonymous said...

http://www.espnfc.com/united-states/story/3254399/sunil-gulatis-second-in-command-will-run-for-us-soccer-president

as a business guy, this guy wants to separate the business side from the soccer side. doesn't think top should be involved in picking coaches.
is this failure at just the top, though?

Anonymous said...

7:17 PM
Tryouts are different for different levels and teams. The tryout for a u15 up club team should be a progression from a quick passing warm-up all the way to full sided matches. The evaluators should be current team coach as well as objective observers. While the ultimate evaluation is in the full sided game there are players who may not get involved due to the nature of a tryout and the goal of the players to win a spot, not win the game. For an academy tryout which leads to regional selection, tryouts are practices and games evaluated by competent scouts (yes this is theory). Selection to the next level ends with the invite, and training begins for at least a full 1 year cycle. The problem is the money. If at the end of the DA season you have your 30 players that you are going to train and groom for the specific age group, you lose the revenue generation of "Tryouts" for at least a year. A perfect scenario is to have the selected 30 train as a team for a year, playing against the rest of the DA, put them in residency, educate them, isn't that what the Euros do?? If over the course of the season the Super team coach see's players on other teams out perform the selected kids, invite them and cut the kid at the bottom of the list. Harsh yes but effective.

Anonymous said...

10/31 829pm ...The internal bias is pretty shocking. They add new coaches and all of a sudden players re- merge form the shadows. Internationals and McL seem to have replaced Stars. Its pretty hard to take it seriously. The teams are basically the core group, and the local Club favorites of whomever is on staff.

Anonymous said...

McLean is the best 99/00 team on the East Coast in the age group. McLean also has a history of player development. What are you saying?

Eric Harris said...


Just in case some of you are bored and want to check in on some games. I will be livestreaming the games this weekend with Sky Blue -PDA vs Cedar Stars Academy

Saturday November 4, 2017 at 9:45 am
Sky Blue - PDA U14 vs Cedar Stars Academy - Monmonth U14 (NJ)
Livestream Game Link Video Start Time Saturday November 4, 2017 9:45 am
Videostreaming start time will begin 10-15 mins prior to kickoff
http://thecube.com/e/758023

Saturday November 4, 2017 at 11:45 am
Sky Blue - PDA U15 vs Cedar Stars Academy - Monmonth U15 (NJ)
Livestream Game Link Video Start Time Saturday November 4, 2017 11:45 am
Videostreaming start time will begin 10-15 mins prior to kickoff
http://thecube.com/e/758025

Saturday November 4, 2017 at 2:15 pm
Sky Blue - PDA U16/U17 vs Cedar Stars Academy - Monmonth U16/U17 (NJ)
Livestream Game Link Video Start Time Saturday November 4, 2017 2:15 pm
Videostreaming start time will begin 10-15 mins prior to kickoff
http://thecube.com/e/758026

Saturday November 4, 2017 at 4:45 pm
Sky Blue - PDA U18/U19 vs Cedar Stars Academy - Monmonth U18/U19 (NJ)
Livestream Game Link Video Start Time Saturday November 4, 2017 4:45 pm
Videostreaming start time will begin 10-15 mins prior to kickoff
http://thecube.com/e/758027


Eric Harris

Anonymous said...

And where were their players in the YNT programming BEFORE their technical director or whatever employed position she is was named the Atlanic regional technical director for the DA?

If they were YNT quality shouldn't they have been included before their political connection appeared?

Anonymous said...

McLean has had national level players for over 25 plus years. Big difference is the players start at the club when they are U8. Not like clubs where they come from other places and then the new club takes credit. That club has never developed a quality YNT player. McLean is the better club always has been always will be and have the better teams right now too.

Anonymous said...

1241/122 I agree with both of you. Thats the point. Whomever is calling the shots does not really look beyond there own front door. This is how selection seems to work for the U18 YNT

1. lets invite the core kids we have invited for the last X years. The kids who were at the WC etc. Does not really matter if they are in season or out. Playing well or poorly. we HAVE to invite them becasue we have put so much in already

2. Lets see if there are any play ups that we can get in here for "experience" They may not be better than on age kids, but it looks like we are really acing this development thing if we have some younger kids in here

3. lets ask the assistants if the have any local favorites we need to invite

Cool..lets wrap this up.

Its not player identification. Its not an effort to see more kids. Its all politics. Its not development either. Not that it matters, but I could pick a team of kids right now who who destroy both the U18s and the U17s. Kids who have rarely been selected becasue they dont fit some USSF mold. The USSF are so fixated on wht they call "technical" that they are selecting kids who athletically better develop or they will never ever be able to play at a level where the athletes they face are better .

I believe that McL have some great players, but where were they during the Stars era? Where are teh Solar players? Or some of the other Clubs who consistently produce great players. I dont know how the Internationals did, but if you have 2/3 YNT caliber players in your team a forward and a defender to boot, then why are you not excelling in league play?

There is no accountability. No one at the top is watching what these coaches do and no one is calling them to task over how they do it. Every age group is its own little fiefdom and that is totally wrong. The kids at the Clubs who are not represented are royally screwed becasue they are not scouted. they are not even considered.

Maybe the GDA over time broadens the scouting base, but until there is someone who is asking ALL these youth team coaches what they are doing., has the power to ask real questions and make changes. Until there is real accountability. nothing will change.

In my world , very few kids in an off cycle team would be called up multiple times in a year. Very few kids would play up and if they did, they would not play down. Every kid would have a performance plan that was communicated to her Club coach and post camp would be working on it. Every kid would get a fair assessment that included GAME minutes of significance.

The YNT would be about looking at as many players as possible, not the same ones over and over again.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for sharing your insights. I agree. Also i agree that no one said that the McLean kids aren't national quality, but if they are then its a travesty that they weren't included until they were the recipients of political advantage. What is the PF connection?

Anonymous said...

The Internationals with their 3 or 4 YNT "quality" players didn't even finish high enough in the ECNL to play in the bottom tier in Chicago if I remember correctly.

Anonymous said...

2:34 PM, not really a good point. Not sure how that relates to YNT selection.

Anonymous said...

234 I am not a results guy, but someone should be asking that question. They aren't. Like I said above, no one cares. A friend of mine who coached in the USSF system told me that after running several camps, he asked a senior USSF when the person in charge of evaluating his work and sessions was going to write the report or talk to him about what he was doing. He assumed that there had been someone on the sidelines watching and taking notes. He was told - we dont have anyone doing that ! At that point he realized he could be doing anything he wanted and no one was going to ask any questions.

Up until recently, a camp of 28 kids would have a final game vs an outside opponent. In that game, maybe 15 kids would play. That leaves 13 kids sitting on the bench. Why? What a complete waste of time. The purpose shoul NOT be to identify the "best" players. It should be to identify as many player as possible with the potential to meet the highest standards. Give them a plan and see who gets there.

Too much of this is status driven. Its about telling a kid she is "better" than others and it so so dumb. I see so many average kids pedestalled by this process and it does them no favors at all. If you want a good look at what the evaluators who are actually paid to win games think - look at who is recruited where. its a much better guide as to what the big College coaches think re the potential to impact games than the YNT call ups for U19 teams and under.

Anonymous said...

302 it may be a good point and it may not. But it s a very valid question. 4 top level players on a team should be enough to make the CL unless your conference is loaded.And iif it is, then one would assume there are also worthy players on those teams. If not, there must be some great coaching going on and maybe you should be asking the coaches what they are doing right !!

Anonymous said...

302 maybe you missed the point that the internationals club coach is now the u19 YNT coach and participated as an "assistant" at the recent u18 camps because they also included younger 1999s (u19). She gets incolved and a bunch of internationals show up. The point again being if 3-4 players on a team are indeed YNT quality players, then that team should have shown some success. It did not. Bottom of the table. Certainly calls into question the validity of the process as we question above. U17s beat a team of 1 and 2 year older players. sheesh.

305 I take a bit of issue with your position. many of the kids recruited to the "top" soccer programs are early YNT players. These programs tend to recruit early and are pretty focused on the YNT camps. There is a huge amount of overlap between u15-16camp attendees and top 10 programs. These college coaches, despite, you position seem to very much allow the USSF to filter prosects for them. That process is flawed and you see kids pop up like McKaskill and Hatch who were not young YNT regulars, but really are making a difference in the college game.

A late bloomer is at a huge disadvantage in the recruitment process.

Anonymous said...

302 PM If you are going to judge players based on team results what does that say about the PF 00 YNT pool players that got soundly beat by PDA, Continental and Match Fit last year? In terms of local NJ-PA standings PF finished last. PDA, Continental, Matchfit and FC Bucks all out performed PF head to head in local match-ups. So that would make players from those teams better and should put them in the YNT pool over those PF girls since the PF girls are not even the best players at a local level. The PF YNT pool players were lost on those games, perhaps that is why many don't think they should been in the pool. Maybe those PF girls got the call up because their DOC was running the ECNL ID selection..

Anonymous said...

Except he wasn't
PDA was.
How do you know that players were"lost" in a series of games. Did you see them all?

Anonymous said...

331 ..i think if you look closely, they are a small subset of the YNT kids. All YNT kids are not bad. Some are exceptional. My point is there should be serious rotation. irrespective of absolute quality until you enter a WC year. Then you need to build a team. There are kids recruited by top schools who are/were not even in the NT pools. I

There should be some overlap, however the schools who can pick and chose are pretty clear who they want. In spite of what folks here may think, that is a handful of schools. So maybe our discrepancy is in that. I am talking about maybe 5/10 schools..that is it. Church, Swanson, Krikorian, Ratcliffe do not let the USSF filter. they just dont. I think Dambach does.

And of course there will be kids who fall outside the YNT pools. why would there not be? You are making my point for me in many ways. There should be a lot more rotation and its not about trying to find out who is the "best" at 13,15 or even 18 . The coaches i mentioned dont care about that. They are looking for who will be good In College...not before it . BC are great at nabbing U15 YNT kids. That has not worked out to well recently

Anonymous said...

340 age changes had eh forward playing on a different team. The other PF 00s are good complementary players but I dont think they can carry a team. That does not mean they are not YNT caiber. Personally i think they are, BUT I think that applies to several more in this area. Again. there is no way the PF 00 would arttend 3 consecutive camps in my world. Nothing against her, but I would be looking at other players as well.

Anonymous said...

3:46 I did watch. I can also say there is a huge difference with the PF 99 YNT player, she is a difference class. She is a game changer. Although on different teams last year it’s easy to see the difference this year. She is what a YNT pool player should be, definitely not lost.

Anonymous said...

12:41 - hahaha. okay. McLean is ONE of the best teams in this age group; not THE best. Do agree that there is a history of good player development; however the number of call-ups this time around were most ever in quite a before GDA where McLean isn't playing. And, they ARE playing teams that lost kids to GDA. Hurts your head to try to figure out any logic with US Soccer.

Anonymous said...

Hey good to see posters back? where were you bedbugs for the past few days? Wait until a busy Friday to post?

Anonymous said...

3:40 - hahaha...soundly. The explanation is simple. The ECNL system supports the deep roster for back to back games and fresh legs. GDA allows for the better kids to be on the field instead of entire rosters that may lack depth coming in. PF is one of the teams that fits that mold for GDA and not necessarily ECNL as much (although they did very well in CL as PDA, Breakers, Stars in Ill; 2nd in bracket beating teams some of these other clubs didn't).
This is where the GDA model is much better than ECNL when you don't have 30 kids on a roster.

Anonymous said...

How did Continental and Matchfit do in Chicago? What leagues wehre they in? I just don't remember.

Anonymous said...

Your excuse doesn’t hold water as to why you got beat soundly. DA, ECNL, we lost to 3 better teams then. The team now isn’t much better, take away the 99 YNT player and once again it’s an average team. It’s not a big deal, still good players, but only one at NT level. Eventually the political stuff will give way to qualified players. Let’s revisit in two or three years and see how the kids fair in college.

Anonymous said...

I watched the PF PDA video that was supplied. I do not see this wonderful PF player (s). Must have been an off game. I did look at the stats page and she is the scoring leader, but there is another one tied, a bunch with multiple goals, and the one kid who has been to the most camps recently is scoring also when she's there. For some reason the DA doesn't include Assists or total points. I think that's a deficiency. Can't get a sense sense of whether she's relying on others to create opportunities for her or is carrying the game on her shoulders in scoring and creating or whether there is another kid they are playing through. PF doesn't look on paper like a one trick pony.

That said, PDA was the far better team on the day. They should have at least three kids going to the camps periodically.

Anonymous said...

no ill will. you recall as you like. "soundly" didn't loose to bucks, loss to PDA was 1 goal (1 sub), continental and mf yes, losses. should they have been. nope. as another poster noted, that is how that coached played his team. everyone got in those games. in need to win games (CASL, Ohio Premier (CL semi-finalist), SOLG-MO, and others) not everyone got in. Can you club/team say the same?
The only way you get kids recruited (which is the reason behind club soccer, right) is by playing them even in tough games. That's how they learn.

Anonymous said...

4:50 I guess you need to go back to ECNL to get the call ups, then, PDA - still on Board of Directors, right?

Anonymous said...

4:32
agreed. college. Isn't that what this is all about anyway?
What happened with all the saucy posts? No liquid lunches today?

4:55 - hilarious!

Anonymous said...

450
nope stats don't include many things it appears like shots, saves, sog, corners, assists. they do have a stat for starts; not time played or quality of time played; starts.
you can play for 10 mins; get subbed off, but you started and get a stat. ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

NYCFC /WC kid has plays on the weakest team by far and still scores goals. Been th only consistent threat on that team and continues to get it done. That’s a gamechanger

Anonymous said...

5:26 what tough teams are in your bracket; though. btw - she is a good player so this isn't meant to be an out of line question.

Anonymous said...

5:26
she can be a game changer. no argument here. but so can JC on Spirit MD (the recent camp top player so I read). And looking at that score, PF handled easily.

Anonymous said...

Jc is overrated but we have a few years to verify that before she gets to college.
The wcfc kid is an athlete and the team is not that bad. Like penn fusion their tactics are "get the ball to the Italians". That gives these strikers much more opportunity to score and rack the limited stats that the DA reports. As someone who enjoys watching entertaining midfield play and appreciates the creator as much as the finisher, I would like to know who the teams are playing through or are they just playing over the top. The video looked like PF plays over the top and pda plays through.

Anonymous said...

5;59 not sure I fully agree. PF has at least 9 kids with goals, many multiple (they have 40 in only 8 games), including a DP this past weekend (according to the game report). I think that's more than just "get it to the Italians" in some game situations. Not all, obviously they couldn't muster a goal against PDA. but interesting to note.

Anonymous said...

what are you people doing??? semi finals are being broadcast in most leagues. go get your fix. :)

Anonymous said...

559 twisting the story to fr his perception of where value is. It irks him that te goal scorers are getting ink so he is going to try and devalue what they do. PF has several goal scorers and a team with several high level commits, but he writes them off as kick and chase. NYCFC have one high level commit and lost 2 of the better players to HS soccer. They have a kid who every coach in the league knows is going to get the ball and she still scores and creates for others. He dismisses her as an athlete. That team has kids starting that would not make either PDA or PF roster

Its comical. The dismissive way he talks about them. Whatever. The PF kids and the NYCFC will, god willing, be playing in the ACC next year. He can watch them on TV and criticize. Im guessing Dorrance and Swanson see a bit more in them than he does

Anonymous said...

If you only knew how bad Dorrance and Swanson are as coaches.

Anonymous said...

yes. everyone here is much much better

Anonymous said...

you have kids who are on the verge of achieving what so few achieve. I believe both have YNT caps. Have scored International goals and are about to attend 2 of the finest soccer schools in the world for Women and still the haters hate. They pick holes in their games . Every player has holes. In my opinion, these kids are winning and I hope they continue to represent with class

Anonymous said...

9:18 PM kids who are on the verge of achieving what so few achieve? What are you talking about. Kids have doing this since girls soccer started and it's done each year. We know you love your daughter and it's nice she is doing well, but it's done all the time.

Anonymous said...

not its really not. Hence all the hate. you are talking about kids in the .1 pct. Getting to play soccer for UNC and making Youth National teams is not done all the time . If it was, these threads would have no traffic. its the 99 + pct who want that who are on here asking why not my kid. its why when one makes it, the vultures come on here to tear her down and point out her flaws

Anonymous said...

sorry - late shift. Some great posts. Good read for sure. And yes, very exciting college games last night.

hey, 3/11 @ 3:40 are you aware that this is 2017? PF was involved in the ECNL pdp in 2016. PDA ran the 2017 pdp.

Anonymous said...

12:23 - agreed. there are people on here who can see past their own kid. i marvel at the talent and sacrifices kids make at all levels to play a sport they love. congrats to you and your daughter. she's fantastic.
1:26 - agreed too. my kid was at both. funny, pda according to the posts (as a group based on the posts, not anyone specific) is calling foul now. in ecnl, they had the political advantage it seemed.

Anonymous said...

some great college games this weekend. nice to see familiar kids doing well and having fun. this is what it's all about folks.

Anonymous said...

Did NYFSC loose to Oakwood?

Anonymous said...

Yes

Anonymous said...

NYCFC top player out in the 31st minute. Hope she's OK

Anonymous said...

801 Ty for you concern. She will be ok, but a question. Given this happens multiple times in every game. Why would a potentially elite player continue to risk serious injury to play in these games ? Constantly fouled. Clearly targeted and zero protection from the referees. Parents on the sidelines yelling - be physical. body up., get her every time she touches the ball. Coaches who dont seem to care if players cross the line becasue they are so consumed by winning. Is this it?

I am clearly biased and probably in the minority, but all this USSF lipservice about quality will never be there if you dont have quality refs and coaches who actually stand for more than just winning the game. Dangerous play should never be tolerated and if you rarely card kids for it, then you are condoning it.

If players do not get protection from the refs then I dont see how dribblers and skill players can get better. they just get hacked into submission or hurt.

Anonymous said...

Amen

Anonymous said...

shame. refs in game i have watched in conferences other than yours seem to be a big improvement. Is she thinking of going back to ECNL? I have heard of a few kids or at least their parents talking about it. High level as well not happy with their club apparently.

Anonymous said...

Why not if ECNL is still getting looks as far as inclusion in NT and if club situation isn't working out.

Anonymous said...

1129 Its no different there.Its not a Club issue. Its a fundamental problem in the way we referee games and what our priorities are. When coaches allow kids to cross the line in the spirit of winning games. When parents cover up dirty play by saying its "being tough" . These are all contributing to what we see now. I read here all the time people lamenting the style of play. They talk about a lack of creativity etc. Well this is one of the reasons why. In most of the games i have watched this year, I can honestly say that there should have been at least 5 yellow cards and probably a similar number of reds. If coaches who dont teach the right way to do things were playing with 8 kids they would do a better job. The only red card I have seen was on a player for grabbing a shirt when beat and arguably the last player. I have yet to see a card for violent conduct. I usual; see a ref do all of these in a game tho - call a kid back to retake a quick fk, re position the player for a throw in or call a foul throw.They seem to lose their nerve when it comes to big moments and kids pay the price.

May sound bad, but unless you have that type of player on your team, I dont think you will really appreciate it. Elite speed is not something these guys are used to seeing or refereeing. Its also not something that most off these teams come up against every week.

I also think that very few kids really know how to tackle or what is legal. The referees do not seem to enforce the rules so bad tackles continue thru ignorance more than intent. I dont think any of these kids are taught real slide tackle technique so when they slide in from behind and dont receive cards , what do we expect?

Its fair to say we have the type of game that we deserve and encourage. We should all be demanding better even if its not our kid getting hurt because its only a matter of time if we carry on not enforcing and teaching the rules.

Anonymous said...

I agree. It's not only elite speed that is targeted, elite technical skilled players are also endangered. Generally its player's who are in some way uniquely dangerous who get beat up on. I have heard coaches and parents yelling encouragement to their players to essentially hurt a player on the field. The kids don't need it, they do it all the time without encouragement. Any player who potentially makes them look bad by blowing by them or tripping them up with a move to beat them is in danger. No matter what league or level, the player seen as dangerous to the other team is at risk.

I agree the refs need to take a position of protecting the kids. It would be helpful if the leagues would put out some educational materials for the refs maybe reinforce these messages prior to the game.

Anonymous said...

1208 I agree. And we lament why we dont see more players like that. It takes a certain toughness to keep getting up and coming back for more. I wonder how many just give up. Instead of celebrating kids like that, we kick them out of the game and then go on message boards to tell the world we won. In my opinion you lost.

Anonymous said...

safety of athlete should always be #1 priority no matter what level.

Anonymous said...

1241 in this case, if parents were not continually yelling to the ref to stop play, he would have carried on. player down concussed in the penalty area and he is allowing play to continue. I bet he got paid tho and the USSF have no idea how awful his performance was.

Anonymous said...

I thought all head injuries were auto stop of play. you should write to ussf and tell them. if it's gda, there is tape. maybe they disallow that crew to ref their league games.

Anonymous said...

yes there is tape, but its bigger than one crew. here is a story for you with names redacted. One of the bigger Clubs in the NE. The DoC came specifically to watch this game. he was not present for any other. he was yelling and screaming at the refs all game for calling fouls on his players - some of whom are on the NT and should know better. All of the fouls were physical in nature and left the player on the ground. After about the 15th one, player unable to continue. Post game, when asked why he chose to defend a kid that way, his comment

well you have to do what you have to do .

Its not just the refs.

Anonymous said...

mad scramble now to look at the various game reports, huh?

Anonymous said...

okay, i'm stumped.

Anonymous said...

wow. sounds like a rugby game instead of soccer.
yes, it's not just the refs. I have heard parents yell horrible comments to kids not on their own team. Or direct their own team to take a player.
how did you learn that the doc made that comment as sometimes things get distorted?
was at a game this weekend that it was physical, but both sides. not excusing it, but just saying, both sides. that's definitely when the refs have to get control.

Anonymous said...

good to see this isn't a PDA, PF and NYSFC board this week.

Anonymous said...

Checking out the brackets and RPI for NCAA play. Does anyone know why conference records are not listed?
It's overall record and then away and home records. Not conference record. would be good to see how some may have had good outside of conference records but blew it during conference play.

Anonymous said...

It's not just the youth level. Did anyone see the NWSL final? Total thuggery. Affected the outcome of the game after taylor Smith was taken out with a serious shoulder injury. Ref let the game get totally out of control

Anonymous said...

what's a normal GDA week look like for other teams? my niece will have 6 days of playing or training this week. 6 days. not one film day in it; training. how is that allowed?

Anonymous said...

remember the new paint on an old barn concept someone tossed out several months ago re some of these clubs. well...

Anonymous said...

http://equalizersoccer.com/2017/11/07/fourfourtwo-vlatko-to-seattle-laura-harvey-to-us-soccer/

Good pick up for USSF. But, sad to see the ONLY female NWSL coach leave her post. Always enjoyed the Reign games.

Anonymous said...

Saw that post too. Good move for US Soccer. Wonder where she will land in the system. Hmmmm....ring, ring, ring...hello Hope. Grab your gloves.

Anonymous said...

Soccer America says u23s

Anonymous said...

i dont care who you add under this leadership. It makes little difference. Good people need to be empowered to impaact the whole set up. Unless she is REPLACING Heinrichs or Ellis, its purely cosmetic

Anonymous said...

Agreed. There should be a term limit for lack of a better analogy for USSF positions as well.

Anonymous said...

Not a fan of the Bethesda Premier Cup website. Just trying to get info re games and locations.

Anonymous said...

What is happening at CSA kids leaving? Heard shake up with long term DOC?

Anonymous said...

Do tell?

Anonymous said...

I guess back to edp?

Anonymous said...

Who coach or kids?

Anonymous said...

Thought there might be more chatter about the PDA/PF matchup??

Anonymous said...

CSA at Bethesda was ugly...not sure what's goin on

Anonymous said...

909 ..sounds like you want some.

Anonymous said...

9:09 - Penn Fusion won over PDA 3-1 is what scores show. Seems to put all that banter from the last game to rest.

10:22 - is that CSA DA? Are DA's doing non-DA events? Are they limited to where they go? I thought that was the beauty of DA limiting games/events?

Anonymous said...

Penn fusion won the rematch with their full team. Pda will be stronger when their high school kids return and it will continue to be an excellent competition for both teams.

Anonymous said...

agreed. both are very good teams.

Anonymous said...

DA teams are not allowed to do events that are not vetted through the USSF.

Anonymous said...

909
The missing kids made a difference obviously.
GK made a couple of special saves. The two centerbacks were a difficult pairing to penetrate. The holding midfielder dictated tempo and affected both sides of the game. The national players scored.

PDA was very good, but will be a different team when the high school kids come back. The Princeton, Rutgers, Syracuse and Duke commits will take the team to another level. They get stronger while potentially PF is stable it would appear. This spring the nod goes back to PDA I predict.

Anonymous said...

I continue to find the analysis amusing. Players/Teams have good and bad games. Sometimes the ball bounces kindly , sometimes it doesn't .Its not more complicated than that. The whole make a difference thing is overblown.

Anonymous said...

I find the commit listing funny as well. Almost as it if means anything in the context of a game.

Anonymous said...

possibly. a lot of roster space on PF vs. PDA (30+). no telling who is being added or moving up. PF's 16/17 have a lot of depth.

Anonymous said...

12:40 yes, it is humorous. pretty sure they had high level commits out there on Saturday, too. seems some just can't admit, the GDA with limited subs doesn't favor the big clubs with big rosters as much.

Btw it seems that PF used all of its subs too except other keeper. And, it appears that same kids that played in previous game also played in this one. so there is some merit to different kids on the field changing the dynamics of the game.

Anonymous said...

The air will be out of PF tires soon
Their stud going to college early. Is there an equivalent difference maker on the 01s?
Not likely.

Anonymous said...

Both PDA and PF played a good game and were well represented. On any given day the outcome can change, it's youth soccer.

Maybe someone can confirm. After the game Saturday, overheard girls congratulating PF striker on her last game. Sounds like she might be graduating early. If so, big blow to their line-up.

Anonymous said...

Well where is PAC in this discussion? 9 players on the roster 1 win and a -19 GD. What's up with that? Is there hope? Will kids come to the team after high school? But there is hope 16's have 2 wins and a tie and only a -7 GD!

Anonymous said...

i disagree. some very good 01's and 02's. as the game proved over the other one, it's the other complimentary players, too.
plug in another very good player or two, ready to go.

Anonymous said...

so for the poster who was listing names of colleges for PDA, none of the current roster are playing college spring ball in preparation for making an impact in the fall? wow.

Anonymous said...

1;14 great player for sure, but they have won without her rostered, too.

Anonymous said...

1:14 don't worry their other national player will take up the slack.

Anonymous said...

very true. and, 1:14, they have won without one or the other or both on the field.

Anonymous said...

agree with 1:14, it was a really good game between two very good teams. well represented is a perfect description.

Anonymous said...

the PF comments are just too much. The vert same National Players have been there for a long time. All of a sudden they are difference makers. I have never read so many NT comments before PF players started to get looks. Says a lot. Most of that UNC class are going early. Pinto,Jones as well I believe.

Anonymous said...

yes, it's funny. i would not think it's PF parents dissing their own team re comments after UNC player leaves. so haters obviously.

Anonymous said...

Actually the unc kid has always played up. This is the first year I believe they have played together. The other national kid played up too I think. Are any other players on any of the teams graduating early?

Anonymous said...

what about the UVA commits? The goalie currently playing for UVA is a 2018 graduated a full year early. any early grads? Penn State?

Anonymous said...

now that's what's funny. you have a team like they have split up for years instead of having them play together and be the best in ECNL? who does that?

Anonymous said...

2:46 A club more concerned about player development rather than wins.

Anonymous said...

don't think players develop under those circumstances, too? i disagree.

Anonymous said...

so your typical winning clubs, real co, stars, pda, casl, tophat aren't into player development, just wins? come on.

Anonymous said...

how do you judge player development? this is an interesting discussion. when do you merge players into other teams within the club?
and its not about the wins, but if the wins are part of the team chemistry then even better.

Anonymous said...

I'm not saying player development doesn't happen at these clubs. What I'm saying is what would be the reason for taking kids that are able to play at a higher level and make them play age appropriate? If it's just to win a league then player development might not be top priority.

Anonymous said...

got it. just probing here, so you think playing up makes a better player? or what if you move kid up and it's not working? what do you do then?

Anonymous said...

so teams that recruit freshman that are playing age appropriate should worry i guess. like what the other poster noted for discussion, how do you judge when player development is or isn't taking place? no rubric i guess. all player specific.

Anonymous said...

sell that one to the paying parents. we could have won the top level league and increased your recruiting options, but decided to bring up a bunch of younger kids instead. sure.

Anonymous said...

1:44 i guess early grads will really devastate the Courage team.

Anonymous said...

@ 4:11. I would have to think younger kids playing on older teams are doing so as one of the better players. Clubs aren't going to bring kids up to be your 17th-18th best players on roster. They're gonna be impact players.

The two PF players in question are going to the acc so chances are they enhanced the recruiting options for their teammates.

Anonymous said...

in prior years, i would agree regarding moving up kids. i think with the new soccer landscape that may not be the case. some teams are just moving up kids to fill in spots. see it with a few teams that may not have depth in different positions. huge drop off occurs.

all of this needs a year or two to flush out it seems.

Anonymous said...

enhanced the recruiting options for which teammates? my recollection is that they played up with other nt players on their prior teams so not necessarily. and just wondering, how successful where those teams? without any ECNL archives you can't make logical comparisons.

Anonymous said...

good discussions here. how many other clubs do this, move up their YNT's? other kids in other clubs that have been to camps seem to stay playing age level. may explain lost interest in the PF players previously. got lost when moved up. maybe didn't necessarily help.

Anonymous said...

5:07 agreed. if kids are being moved up for certain games or tourneys, they are probably considered impact players.

Anonymous said...

playing up is a marketing tool most of the time. There are so many individual and club circumstances that lead me to believe its not playing up that defines impact players. Often its parents agitating. None of these teams are playing tougher schedules because the leagues do not have many quality teams. Playing up rarely changes dynamics for a player, just perception.

I have yet to see a kid in our area who has to play up because on age is not a challenge and IF that is the case its a reflection on the other teams and the paucity of talent. At some of the weaker clubs they dont want to consolidate talent to weaken other teams. On strong teams, what is the point?

Im all for it if a kid is that dominant, but I have not see one yet. Not saying they dont exist.

Lot of chatter about PF players though. I mean why? At this age to date they have been ok, but not much more. There have been better teams to date and there are players every bit as good.

Anonymous said...

hahaha sure dude, sure.

Anonymous said...

"the leagues" do not have quality teams? so no quality teams anywhere? okay. when does EDP start?

Anonymous said...

i heard that some kids played up for Bethesda. that's what i was addressing. what are you saying about those games?

Anonymous said...

ut oh. dems fighting words me thinks.

Anonymous said...

1:16 PAC official roster is 9 but many 01s play up with them obviously, look at 01/02 roster.
They will not use HS girls now that season is over. Choice was made to not waiver anyone.
Many believe the gda as a senior has absolutely no benefit and most of club's good players are not da

Anonymous said...

Player development discussions are interesting. If you want to see if a club/team values development over winning watch a game. If all 18 rostered players get on the field for a good amount of time it is a player development approach. If a few players only get 10 minutes while others play almost the full game it is a play to win approach.

Anonymous said...

PAC isn't in the convos anymore. nice soccer; needs some time to grow. and with success of PF, may not be as easy as expected. people will still make the drive if having to choose.
understanding for a senior with PAC not to join DA, but do you really think even if they (seniors) decided to join, they compete with pda, pf, fc va, etc. in their conference? maybe 1 or 2 more wins or ties but nothing noticeable. maybe in time.

Anonymous said...

So you are saying PAC elite team is better than the GDA team?

Anonymous said...

just an observation, but does competing in your conference or playing on a better team have material impact on a top players development? I dont think it has to. Parents talk results, like its a pre req for development or offers from top soccer schools. There are p[plenty of high ceiling kids with great commits not on the best teams.

I think its the most overrated and over discussed part of development.

Anonymous said...

All of the pundits agree that a player must be challenged to achieve the steepest development curve. If the level does not change, development will not be maximal.

Anonymous said...

@8am, I was commenting on yesterday's 1:16 but I'll remember to check with you on acceptable convos from now on
Who cares if one more player with da would show different results
That's my whole point..who cares about results especially as a committed senior...no benefit whatsoever
I haven't seen their elite team but I hear they're solid

Anonymous said...

852 you need to define challenged. Is it more challenging to play games for a mid level team or less ? Is it more challenging to be counted on to deliver in games or less? No team is full of players of equal ability so can practice be challenging if you are the best player on the team?

My point stands, I dont think you have to be on a winning team to further your development and in some cases I think it does the opposite.

Anonymous said...

1029 Your comment is interesting and very much a weather vane on soccer and its position. If soccer is important to her then a committed senior should be doing whatever she can to get better. In most cases that is going to be more touches and more practice. In many cases it actually less touches and more social stuff. No judgement here becasue there is no pressure to get better for the majority.

I know for a fact there are College coaches who receive a totally different player from the one they thought they were getting because the pressure to keep working has stopped.

Anonymous said...

Agreed 10:52, if the player stops "doing what she can to get better".
I know this does happen.
In my daughter's case, her college coach was pleased to see her "senior year team" and was involved in her making decision to not play gda.
I'm not the OP btw

8:52, well said

Anonymous said...

1110 ..852 did not really say anything. The devil is in the details. What is challenged? Ill give you my challenges

- giving 100 pct in every practice
- setting personal goals and trying to exceed them
- personal fitness

None of the above are team dependent

You dont choose your team unless you have unlimited resources and while you may love your teammates, its getting to the stage where you need to prepare for a whole new environment where you may be lees established and comfortable. As long as the level is above a certain point ( and that point is not super high) there is no impediment to being challenged other than the players OWN drive.

Anonymous said...

1135 I think the word challenge was used in reference to evoking the maximal slope of the development curve. All those things listed above are character building "challenges" and are important for sure, but not ones leading to the maximal soccer develop rate achievable.

The challenges about which I speak are somewhat related to position. But:

An attacker or midfielder needs to face defenders who are fast physical, skilled, organized and smart. She should not be able to regularly beat these defenders. In fact she should have to invoke something "special" to be able to turn them or beat them one v one. She must learn how to manage good smart man marking even double teams if an impact player. She must have to face strong GKs capable of making special saves themselves. The GK should be testing the attackers ability to finish as the are rushing off their lines and the attackers ability to place shots out of their reach.

GK needs to experience an attacker 1v1 who has some tricks in the bag requiring caution and foresight to manage successfully. Similarly the GK needs to be facing kids who can deliver the unexpected. Who can shoot from a distance and keep her honest. The GK must have smart defenders who understand direction as she manages the back line. For GK experience is even more important for her to see that her direction was effective or was not. She has to see if her decision to come off her line was a good one or not by having attackers capable of punishing her for her mistakes.

Defenders and midfielders need attackers and midfielders to play and train against who are fast, physical and technical enough to test them 1v1, who are requiring them to work together to defend in an organized fashion with each defender understanding her role with each situation. She needs to experience an attacker who is good at losing her mark and yes see what happens if she loses her mark and contributes to a goal against. They need to hear a competent gk offering direction and be able to respond quickly and accurately. They need attackers and midfielders to offer options to them as they attempt to play out of the back.

All players need teammates making intelligent and timely runs to test their vision and their technical ability to play well weighted and directed passes under adequate pressure. They need intelligent competition to cut off obvious passing lanes and force creativity to break them down.

In general at any age players require an environment in training and competition that places continuous demands on them to solve as many problems as possible on the field. The players then learn where their weaknesses are to specifically improve the tools available to them and which strengths can be leveraged under which circumstances. Just a start, but that's what I meant regarding soccer specific development. Not the character building challenges offered by others.

So now attack my kid's character, whom you know nothing about. We are all good and she's trying to be as strong a player as possible going into a competitive college environment in a couple of years. That means training at the highest levels possible. In the past that may have meant training/playing up and/or with boys.

Anonymous said...

I don't think we are rehashing the whole gda, hs or not gda thing again. it's been decided. not everyone wants to play top level and not everyone can.

I agree with the above poster as far as challenges re each position. if you aren't in an environment that provides all of those, then you aren't practicing to play top level.

so for the person who said playing gda in senior year has
no value, i disagree. the value is in whatever the player wants to do with her soccer experience and skills.

if practicing in an environment as described in the post above (which is exactly what my daughter is experiencing in gda) works for her, the player, then great. It then has value.

If it's not what the player wants, then it doesn't have value.

ALL of that is subjective and none of us can answer on behalf of everyone.

Just remember to still enjoy it.

Anonymous said...

let's not loose sight of the fact that there is a percentage of kids that once they get to college, will just stop playing soccer or may elect to play club soccer. some used the sport to get into the school. or they just burned out.


Anonymous said...

1210 you got the wrong guy or you have the thinnest skin ever, NO ONE attacked anyone's character. All of the challenges you mention are available on almost every team bar the absolute worst ( of which there are few). I still believe that one of the biggest development myths is about what team you play for on Saturdays/Sundays . Good training usually involves drafting in better players or how does the best player improve?

If you read my comments. I think the flight to the "best" as defined by who wins most is a scourge on development. I also think development can occur in HS, ECNL , GDA wherever , its a function of the players end game and desire.

Its easy , form reading here over the last few weeks ., to think that if you are not PDA, PF you are somehow on a worse track.

Anonymous said...

its very easy to solve problems when surrounded by talent. Does that make it more challenging? I think not.

Anonymous said...

in fact 1210 i disagree with a lot of what you say. Solving problems WITHOUT the benefit of all the things you say may well be more beneficial. Moreso, I dont think it exists in the games on a regular basis. Especially on the better teams. Game day probably means Very few real in game challenges.

example , if you are playing a team with a great attacking player who is isolating your defender and beating her, is it best to leave it how it is, or double team? Is the result worth more that the teaching moment? All this is theoretical, but in my experience from both ends of it, being on the dominant team was not beneficial. from a developmental PoV.

Many of the things you see as necessary are great in an ideal world as long as ALL your opponents have the same. In the soccer landscape around her now, there are going to be more in game teaching moments provided by playing on a middle of the pack team ( in my opinion) than on the strongest ones.

Pre game prep is another one. Do you think its a good idea to game plan for opponents or just try and solve the issues your kids see on the fly? I prefer no prep at all, but I know people who like that.

Anonymous said...

1:00
it only makes it less challenging to solve problems if you are surrounded by talent if you don't want to rise to the level of the challenge. the talented kids expect it. the pressure is on to perform. and not all can do it.
that's more of a challenge then being the best of the average.

Anonymous said...

sometimes my kids' practice sessions are better than the games because of the talent on her team. and based on the posts, it seems to be more unique than not.

Anonymous said...

114 . Read what you wrote. there are kids emerging from average teams who are the best of the best. Point is the team they play for has not hindered that. If you were correct, that would not be the case.

Anonymous said...

Team A . Mid level team. We have mixed practice sessions with boys so the level is always high. On saturday and or Sunday we play a game. Im the GK on a mid level team,, My defenders make mistakes, I face a lot of shots, I constantly trying to organize and unless I play out of my skin, we lose games.

Team B, we have a good girls team. Practice is good. On the weekend I face a few shots, unless we are playing one of the better teams in a 10 team league.

Who is more challenged?

Any coach who limits practice to the kids on his team is probably not challenging the bets players by definition.

Anonymous said...

1247 sooooo, how is that "revelation" relevant to this discussion

soccer pundits everywhere including apparently Christian Pulisic (not that he's earned the title yet but has opinions about development for sure) agree that the environment that pushes a player to improve is important for MAXIMAL developmental slope.

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/christian-pulisic-usmnt-world-cup/


I believe you are wrong to take a position that all environments, save the worst, offer the same opportunity for improvement. The position that any environment (team) can provide the same opportunity for maximal development, if the player somehow takes advantage of it I believe is a warm fuzzy fallacy. I believe perhaps that you confuse my position, and that of most others involved in participating in youth development, that not all environments are created equally with this truth: any environment can provide SOME opportunity for development. And a false corollary: A player can achieve maximal slope on the development opportunity curve within any environment through her own efforts. My position is while you can maximize the development opportunity all environments present, you will top off at some lower than others.

1259. my apologies. I didn't mean to make that personal. It's just that often when someone takes a position like I did, that we weren't talking about opportunity for character development but instead soccer development, the response is: well obviously your kid's character will need some development since you are minimizing such important opportunities. It was kind of a tongue in cheek preemptive strike.

Anonymous said...

1:42
was only addressing my pov that it's not easy to be surrounded by top talent either as some opined. didn't mean top talent can't emerge from average teams.

Anonymous said...

142
Wrong again
No way to know whether that kid who "emerged' from the weak environment (who exactly?) would be a Better player if developed somewhere else. Even as most likely occured said ghost player emerged from a weak team, more than likely she/he was advantaged by some other factor, such as a parent, mentor who trained him/her outside of more formal training, training/playing with older kids or boys is another example. And in certain environments such as Dempsey, playing with adults whose ethnic background included a soccer culture.

Anonymous said...

236 did not say the worst. I said above a certain level. My point remains that above a certain level, the developmental benefits are not boosted or hurt by the results of the weekends games. PF or PDA are no better development venues than Albertson ,NYCFC or MatchFit. If I put a player with elite potential in any of those environments , the odds of them emerging better are not correlated to who won more games. or played with "better" kids. Its ,highly likely that these "better" kids are not of the same level anyway.

Anonymous said...

236 . I see very little evidence to support your claims. I think your position is one the bigger Clubs take, but I think there are many Clubs in the area that can provide everything a top level player needs and they will not run out of Challenges becasue the coaches at said Clubs can provide them in training and HAVE to I think parents buy in to the - we have to find a better team or Jane wont get better. above a level, you hit the law of diminishing returns.

Anonymous said...

1:47
you are assuming that the GK on the better team isn't challenged. big assumption. Maybe less shots are occurring BECAUSE of what she is doing as far as reading the game and organizing up the field. GK on my daughter's team does just that. And THAT is harder to do than stop shots (which she can do too). Can be mentally exhausting in very tight games.
Not everyone understands how the sausage is made.

Anonymous said...

240 which reinforces that winning games on the weekend, is not necessarily relevant. That "challenged" can take many different forms

Anonymous said...

240 I just re-read you post and I think you should.

Point is the team they play for has not hindered that. If you were correct, that would not be the case.

You then provide an example of EXACTLY that. The team he played for did not hinder him.

You talk about advantaged? You make is sound like he cheated. What does that mean? Driven players seek out challenges. He was not defined solely by the team he played for and if he was really good while young ( which Im sure he was) who is to say that a more formal "better" team would have helped him more?

Anonymous said...

247 Nope. Im illustrating that the challenge is different and may be just as beneficial.

Anonymous said...

242 who said anything about results of the weekends games? I said only about challenge. Challenge in training and challenge in games. Yes, I believe both have to be present for the developmental slope to be maximal. However, I believe a player can get much closer to the max in an environment which provides consistent training challenge that she/he can with one which only challenges during formal competition. Hence if one player was forced to pick between an environment with consistent challenges during training, but not so much during games, versus one where the training was meh but the games were all competitive I choose the former.

Anonymous said...

247 its not easier or harder, its a different aspect of the goalkeeping game. The fact you say its harder is you trying to bolster one challenge vs another. Different teams offer different challenges. They are all valuable and form a basis for development. You augment what you dont get.

Anonymous said...

255 so says the warm fuzzy non soccer guy (or mom)

Anonymous said...

2:55
you asked who is more challenged in your original question.
so both are challenged in different ways and agreed, both beneficial.

Anonymous said...

30 I guess you missed the basis of the whole discussion.

Anonymous said...
just an observation, but does competing in your conference or playing on a better team have material impact on a top players development? I dont think it has to. Parents talk results, like its a pre req for development or offers from top soccer schools. There are p[plenty of high ceiling kids with great commits not on the best teams.

I think its the most overrated and over discussed part of development.
November 14, 2017 at 8:32 AM

Anonymous said...

3:01
the response was to a post that assumed that GK may not be as challenged on a stronger team and i disagreed based on what actually goes on. and of course, it's all game specific and based on who is on the field which is true in every scenario.

Anonymous said...

response to 3:01a

Anonymous said...

310

Team A . Mid level team. We have mixed practice sessions with boys so the level is always high. On saturday and or Sunday we play a game. Im the GK on a mid level team,, My defenders make mistakes, I face a lot of shots, I constantly trying to organize and unless I play out of my skin, we lose games.

Team B, we have a good girls team. Practice is good. On the weekend I face a few shots, unless we are playing one of the better teams in a 10 team league.

Who is more challenged?

No assumptions there. Two scenarios, both challenging in different ways. I painted a picture of BOTH having good practices. no assumptions. I think you read what you thought was written ;)

Anonymous said...

You are asking a question which seems to be leaning one way or another. I answered. what's the assumption?
Both are challenged.

Anonymous said...

2:48 agreed. the challenge can take many forms. it's about how the player handles it/them.

Anonymous said...

12:10 PM

I like your GK assessment. My daughter is a GK and had her commitment going into fall of this year. She had the choice to go DA and miss her Sr. year of HS as well as move from her club team of 3 years. Her College coach indicated he had a preference with her staying with her current club coach (he is a GK). I believe that development is based on the player and what their ceiling is, unfortunately some reached it a few years ago but due to being tied to a specific coach or DOC they continue to get the club looks. I saw a few players go to DA tryouts, invited based on the team they were on last year and did not get an offer, these players have been tied to the current coach at their club (not my daughters team/club) for a few years, and are still uncommitted. So I am thinking not a lot of development there. The player who has not reached her ceiling can develop on most teams, there does need to be a push from team mates, but there also needs to be competition that challenges. It is also interesting that you see coaches at U18/U19 who are more managers than trainers. I have been told by a few coaches/trainers that my daughter has not reached her ceiling yet and they indicated that at the stage she is now that is a good thing.

Anonymous said...

@3:15 throwing in a curve, why is there an assumption that practicing with the boys team is better? just because they are boys? what if they are fast but just not creative or very good.

Anonymous said...

3:15 PM

GK Dad here, your scenarios are flawed and a decision about which situation is more challenging is invalid. My daughter was on a team where she faced between 15-30 shots a game (yes HS), on her club team she has a great backline that listens to her and each other, they play like a unit. The HS team was mostly non-club players looking for a fall sport. In the beginning of the year the scores and shots against were high, but the second half of the season (seeing the same teams again) both the scoring and shot total decreased. Development was achieved for my daughter in that she was not only able to improve communications with her backline but she improved her skills to compensate for the defensive breakdowns. Now on her club team, against better forwards, her positioning, hands, and reaction time is improved. Her decision to play HS, face a boatload of shots has translated to being a better club keeper. In her last nine games she has allowed 4 goals with 1 loss.

Anonymous said...

3:29
you sound bitter. let it go man, let it go.

Anonymous said...

3:52 PM

Not bitter at all, maybe my original post reads wrong?? The point I was trying to make is that there is a definite end to development that is usually due to the player either reaching their ceiling or reaching their potential, two different things. A player who is competing with their peers at a high level and has not reached their ceiling is different than a player at the same level reaching their potential. If U19 club is your players ceiling there is no future development, but if they have College potential and have not reached their ceiling they continue to develop on that trajectory. It somewhat supports that younger players play up to their potential to gauge where their ceiling is.

Anonymous said...

don't you think that is exactly what college coaches look at? why invest in someone who has maxed out.

Anonymous said...

3:01 gotta jump in here. it is harder to do. i'm a former gk. try multi-tasking like that in game speed. shot stopping should be a given at this age. this isn't.

Anonymous said...

not a "given" as far as shot stopping, but should have good fundamentals by now. you aren't walking into this position at this age without them. or any position for that matter. they are all specialized anymore.

Anonymous said...

have we gone full circle and are back on player development? it's true. at this age, it's about tweaking and adding to the book of knowledge. the soccer iq.

Portugal and US (MNT) 1-1 - Bruce Arena commentating for Fox. Haha always a job in soccer.

Anonymous said...

338 there wasn't. It was placed there to compensate for the argument that a practice is only as good as the team. I could have said train with anyone, but boys is good becasue its true and you can get a great session with younger boys. I even added practice is good, because adding boys alone does not make it so

Anonymous said...

419 you assume that the organizing etc his happening fast. Ie its relevant. Game speed is a function of who you are playing and on top teams facing bad ones, game speed is not really fast and organizing your back four not necessarily as critical.

Point remains, almost all I have read from 8 am on leaves me with the same comment. Who you play GAMES for does not have to define your development. Development is not better because a team wins. There are lessons to be taken from most games and challenges to overcome. Even at the very top Club level, it is not a given that the winning team is any better at developing players than the losing one..

Ty all who respectfully commented. Was educational for me and glad I started it


gn

Anonymous said...

as stated by someone from a losing team.

Anonymous said...

3:15 very easy to be distracted in a game that is mostly one sided so challenge for all players can be to stay in the game. in games that are not as exciting, quite easy for a player/team to loss focus and get caught off guard/sloppy.


Anonymous said...

4:53 - of course clubs are not responsible for 100% of player's development. the extra work done outside of club usually separates good from very good.

but you would be a fool to think that there are not levels of development and separation of them between the various clubs. and could be huge depending on the teams as far as winning and loosing teams.

much of this depends on the other cast members on the team. you can be average on a great team. or you can be great on an average team. but, where would you like to play? which teammates would you like challenging you?

most players that have the above average ability are choosing the tougher team. that's why the development is better. the athletes that opt in are usually overall better. 1/2 the battle right there.

Anonymous said...

all of this depends on the sacrifices willing to be made by the player and the player's family.

using C Pulsic as a continued example doesn't necessary work anymore. the game, the environment and the politics of this sport is much different than when he was in youth soccer. Same with Dempsey. The sport is the way it is today because of their stories and people willing to find and pay for the best or at least the perceived best.

Anonymous said...

4:53 sure game speed not as fast; but keeping players focused and in the games still critical and believe it or not, that can be a challenge and teaching tool.

Anonymous said...

Nobody talking about games vs. Canada or recent USMNT? US Soccer getting a pass now?

Anonymous said...

Reading all these posts pretty much sums up why the US soccer landscape looks the way it does!!! No consensus whatsoever, 58 different opinions....
I bought my Senegal and Iceland jerseys for WC2018!

Anonymous said...

734 The central point gets buried in a bunch of specific subplots. parents in general have a limited perspective. Hard to see how anyone can argue with the basic premise that there are valuable lessons and challenges on most teams , even the ones who are not considered the "best"

But they will find a way :)

Anonymous said...

tired of the club stuff; can't wait for college. it can't come soon enough.

Anonymous said...

748 Amen. When the reset button is hit and so many of these kids are playing on programs that are not the "best". Where starting is not a given, winning is rarer and the ability to deal with disappointment and bounce back is needed.

I hope our kids are prepared for that. I wonder what parents will post about then ?

Anonymous said...

Again this is where reality comes back in.
Some of the college rosters are pretty big...how many parents are fooling themselves with regards to their kid's talent and future?
Are club coaches preparing our seniors for the reality of college play?
Pick the best school for your education...period...

Anonymous said...

905 I think you pick the school that gives you the best mix of things you value today. Clearly those values may change. i dont believe in the "Pick the best school for your education...period..." because to some of these kids, soccer is very important and will help form relationships that can only make College a better experience for them.

I also dont believe that many parents actually see soccer in their kids future, but that does not stop them from wanting them to start, play and be successful at it in College. Just be prepared IF values change.

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