Thursday, November 2, 2017

U18 Girls Youth Soccer

This page is focused on Under 18 girls youth soccer, primarily in Region 1 but everyone is invited to share and post.

Teams face increased competition for the top players, (who are increasingly attending college showcases).

More teams consolidate and the best teams--academy soccer, club soccer and high school teams--battle to attract and retain the right player mix.

Stay tuned. This is bound to be good.

2,980 comments:

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Anonymous said...

1:24
i have heard otherwise. i think it depends on where the kid is on the GDA roster. if you may not play every game, why not.

Anonymous said...

1:36 - horrible. some kids get away with more in high school soccer because of the horrible refs then they would in most club soccer matches.

now, youth club soccer may not have the best refs, either. However, horrible calls are one thing, allowing assaults another. obviously the refs let that game get way out of hand. i hope they were heavily fined and suspended.

Anonymous said...

Suspended? Those bozos should not be refereeing any games anymore. After the 2nd or 3rd yellow to the same team, that coach should have been talked to about his or her players. This is why high school games get a bad rap. Some thug coaches too.

Anonymous said...

yawn...
wow, high school soccer sucks and the refs suck.
never heard that before :)
Many GDA teams had/are having camp/preseason....how is going for your daughter?

Anonymous said...

Thanks for asking...
My daughter thought she was in shape then had "camp"!
Seems most are optimistic about the season according to her.

Anonymous said...

No "camp" just been training 4 days/ week for the last three weeks. Added specific speed and agility along with some strength training to improve the physical side as well. I am hearing no regrets about the high school thing. A comment was made among the kids about some of the press regarding high school versus DA. They said basically what's right for me might not be right for my friends.

Anonymous said...

If the parents could be as mature regarding the choices.....

Anonymous said...

agreed. as 8;10 at 11:10 pm noted, it's done. no speculation. the girls are playing where they are playing based on choices made. May they all have success in THEIR choices with our support.
have fun out there parents. it's all about the journey even for us.


Anonymous said...

Funny how the one changes as people start to see reality replacing speculation.

Anonymous said...

based on the back and forth above, some are still not seeing the reality. probably questioning moon landing still as well.

Anonymous said...

and the solar eclipse track confirms the earth is flat...

Anonymous said...

hahaha
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=5649.0
as per the Flat Earth Society who believe in your statement - Let's disregard all of those pictures that show earth as a sphere, though.

thank goodness Chris Columbus didn't listen.

back to the spherical discussion we call soccer.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Funny how the one changes as people start to see reality replacing speculation.
August 14, 2017 at 11:28 AM

obviously meant to say TONE

Anonymous said...

This is U18 now. Another wrinkle quickly appeared. :)

Anonymous said...

Are the academy posters moving to the academy page? It's useful to collect and share intel on all the various groups, right?

Anonymous said...

Nope - they will remain just like the ECNL posters never left.

1. Brag for some.
2. Recruit for others (poo poo the comp)

Anonymous said...

Elite Clubs National League (ECNL)
The goal of the Elite Clubs National League (ECNL) is to change the landscape for elite female soccer players in the United States through innovative, player-centered programming and to enhance the overall experience by creating a better, more enjoyable, and more successful player, coach, and club development model.

Purpose of this YouthSoccer Talk (YST) page: To promote healthy discussion, feedback and opinions about the ECNL by participating families.
Posted by TALKING YOUTH SOCCER

2 comments:

Anonymous said...

Got it. There are now two U18 blogs for girls on this site. And multiples for others too. Adm will probably clean up. thanks all.

Anonymous said...

Confused by that last post.
Multiple U18 blogs?

Anonymous said...

If you are '00 you are in the right spot

Anonymous said...

There appear to be multiple Girls U18 blogs on this site. Wasn't sure which was the relevant spot as the other has only a few comments. But, didn't know if the conversations were moving to it. Thank you!

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Numbers seem to be improving at NWSL games. Maybe it's timing late in the summer so no conflicts. Nonetheless, good to see.

Anonymous said...

A surviving league, no doubt.

Anonymous said...

DA season starting Saturday more rosters are up.

http://www.ussoccerda.com/2017-girls-club-map

Anonymous said...

Nice
how do you play with 9 players?

Anonymous said...

I didn't see the rosters. Is their a hyperlink to them, specifically, or do you have to go through each team's individual website? t/y

Anonymous said...

Follow the link, choose your division, choose your team

Anonymous said...

I think there are like 28 kids on the U16/17 team so they will likely "fill in". The question is do they fill in with the weaker kids and concede the 18/19s to blow outs while keeping the 16/17s as competitive as possible or do they try and "develop" the top 01/02 on the older team?

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't want my younger daughter being the sacrificial lamb for the older team

Anonymous said...

So......will next year's DA team still be '01/'02, '03/04 etc

or will '01s play next year with the '00s?

Anonymous said...

00's (those not graduated; late calendar year kids) and 01's (U19/U18).

Anonymous said...

Any tournaments this weekend?

Anonymous said...

Meaningful game 10-0? And without their NT stud?

Anonymous said...

Seems like they are loaded with NYT caliber players. I guess that is what US Soccer envisioned.

Anonymous said...

I think if you know anything about USSF selection you would pause for thought. Fc Stars were loaded as well right? not so much now. I wonder why.

Anonymous said...

Because ECNL's influence is less than it was.

Anonymous said...

It's Ohio international now that's taken stars place as the hotbed of development for national quality players... except...
00 team bottom 16 in the ecnl
Doesn't qualify for post season even lowest flight
But look at this 3 kids to u18 camp and 2 of those to u19 china trip. Wow even with three national quality kids and the rest terrible should get to Chicago, no?
Tells me something's up and oh and it is...
Their coach is now listing u18wnt assistant on her bio
Imagine that...
I don't think PF has that kind of influence.
That kid is quality for sure, but better than a couple other age eligible on that team? Definitely subject to debate for those who have seen that team play. Just puts the whole selection process in question. Now with the. Ideas it would seem that decisions wouldn't be so reliant on limited information. But that assumes someone is taking the time to examine the tapes.

Anonymous said...

I would also say
My kids team has been snubbed for years despite being very successful. We are hoping that the video availability will elevate some in recognition. And no, mine isn't at the level

Anonymous said...

the process is very flawed. Im not sure that the GDA will do anything to make it any better. It may if the Technical Advisors are actually good, do their own homework and are willing to stick their necks out for what they see. Not sure that will happen in all cases.

It does surprise me how some YNT kids are less than dominant in ECNL play. The kid you mention is a nice player, but far from dominant and a few scissors/step overs does not make a player technical. Its interesting how her teammate that does all the tricks has also been to a few camps but not really stuck for any time. PF does have pull, more than you think.

Good luck to her, im sure it a great experience and its pertty clear that the FC Stars influence has waned a bit. Im really looking forward to seeing their U17s NTs play UP in the 18/19 GDA.

Anonymous said...

10-0 not so meaningful. No way to spin that other than "growing pains"
Looking at the box score
Tricky one and done with a hattrick
Super 99 brace
Doesn't mean anything against cones. Baltimore- Washington region will be uber diluted.
Looks like PAC competed with wash spirit. So maybe they are better than everyone thought. Next week will reveal their relative competitiveness. I think PF will win by 3 but not embarrass them.

Anonymous said...

same team played NYCFC pre season friendly. Both teams missing players. NYCFC more so . 2-1 game. PF had the better of it, but NYCFC capable of scoring at any time. I would not be crowning anyone yet. I dont think there is a huge gap in real performance terms on many of these teams. Limited subs changes the game

Anonymous said...

I think the point was 10-0 is not competitive so how is that game "meaningful" as per the ussf rhetoric.

Anonymous said...

its one game. Im sure there will be a few noncompetitive games. let me ask yout hi. In ECNL what happened when the game was 3-0 early.? Coach took out starters. Cant really do that now. To me very little has changed game wise, but a lot has changed for us training wise. Especially when the comparison is HS training and games vs DA training and games.

Anonymous said...

Nyfc is world class. They are a good team. There will be no competition between some of these start up newly named travel teams like VDA and established ecnl or usysa national teams. Already proven.

Anonymous said...

Just curious how do you know nyfc was missing "more" players. Besides it's often more important which were missing. The best player on the PF team is a 99 not one of the 00s from last year.

Anonymous said...

3:08 - as you noted both teams missing players, but NYSFC wasn't missing their YNT kid and many of their kids did show up after SAT's. And, NYSFC's YNT kid didn't score until reserves went in. You didn't see the product on Saturday. It was a machine and that was w/o another key player.

Anonymous said...

Sorry referencing the PF vs. NYCSC (not NYSSC; my bad) friendly. It was a nice scrimmage between very good teams.

Anonymous said...

4:15 like it or not, the combo of the 99's and 00's are fantastic. This is a group that hasn't played together as a team before from front to back ever.
Saturday was their first time due to other commitments and still they were missing a key 00 player. They put on a clinic.

Anonymous said...

530 not going to get into it. Ill just say that kid is a very dangerous player and leave it there. My kid has played with her for a while and you ignore her at your cost. I would be shocked if your coaches did not feel the same way.

Anonymous said...

Interesting results for both teams. Complete domination
8-0 nycsc over empire united
And 10-0 PF over VDA
Looks like big GD like there were in early years of ecnl will be the order of the day. This age it won't settle out. I looked at some key rosters and the weird area looks like Baltimore Washington where the YNT players stayed at Bethesda and McLean. A couple overrated kids at Washington Baltimore armour. One of whom at least will be tied up with monthly u17 ynt events.
Otherwise the GDA teams in the capital area are looking suspect.

The rest of the country especially the southwest is doing what the ussf wants. Best kids in total moving to gda.

Anonymous said...

827 Overrated? No way. ;) She is exactly what the GDA hopes to produce ;)

Anonymous said...

5;57 who said she wasn't a dangerous player? maybe that is what you thought was implied. it wasn't.

Anonymous said...

yup overrated. Can you say Summer Greene?

Anonymous said...

i mean well, she does a mean backflip.

Anonymous said...

I would expect a little more maturity from the posters at this level of playing.
Y'all need to let this season play out. the first couple years of GDA will be much growing pains and club building.
our daughters who get to play in their last or next to last year of youth career should enjoy the experience.
The younger ages will benefit the most if they stick it out, work for playing time.

Who has seen college coaches on the sidelines? This was part of the draw of the da. I understnad that they may not watch this age group much though...

Anonymous said...

Not the OP, but "NYSFC's YNT kid didn't score until reserves went in" sure sounds like it !

Anonymous said...

So noted. Will fix for future.

Anonymous said...

Yesterday, we were running interviews at the club for possible assistant coaches and technical staff..I saw this blog and realized I don't need any help, I can just come here!!! Big savings!!

Anonymous said...

Seek and ye shall find.

Anonymous said...

5:39 - happened to stay and watch that game. the fight was out of the opponent by end of 1st half.

Anonymous said...

So, the NCAA may allow transfers to not have to sit out a year is that the new potential rule change? It's going to be crazy out there.

Anonymous said...

Just having read through the last couple of days I am surprised people are talking in a negative way about kids. One of them the "tricky" kid has been troublesome for my center defender daughter for years. Before or after a game with her team my daughter always has a comment about that kid and being very difficult to defend. As a parent watching I don't just see tricks. She has the best first touch and tight ball control of any female player I have seen yet. Watching my sons' games I see boys play similarly but there is a great divide between the boys and girls games. This kid seems to bridge the gap to bring something different. I am surprised that the ussf hasn't been more interested in her. I haven't seen her this year but last year we were surprised at how much she'd grown. Maybe it's the late bloomer anti bias. Not sure. Anyway she's an outstanding player who is fun to watch and I don't think deserves the comments.

I was going to stop and think maybe there is a larger point. Now that I think further maybe I shouldn't be surprised that the ussf doesn't like this kid. She is very different than the others I see. While she may not be everyone's cup of tea, I think she would add a "spice" to the the bland national game recipe that's surely missing I wish her well.

Anonymous said...

12:48, If I'm not mistaken, the player in question has already been to camps. Obviously if they liked what they saw, she'd still be there.

I'm not doubting the player has ability as her skills are good, but to stay in ynt camps you have to show your "coachable" too. From what I've heard, she has her moments when she isn't. Might be the problem.

Anonymous said...

1248 - dont know you or your kids team, but many kids who do well in the Club environment on stronger teams have difficulty adjusting to doing the same thing at higher speed under greater pressure from better players. Im not saying she cant. Im just saying its an issue. Interesting that her teammate earned another look after a good amount of time out of camps.

136 - who knows. I know that physical testing is a big part of these camps. Perhaps she did not score well in some areas that they deem important for her position. Yes you read it correctly.

Anonymous said...

My kid has also defended the WC kid. She is a completely different player than the other. That kid is athletic as anything and clearly dangerous. The tricky kid playing to the athletic kid would be nigh unstoppable. They are both terrific.

Anonymous said...

228 we are in danger of having a real soccer conversation! A good team is a combination of differing skills and a common purpose. Very few players have it all and when they do they are iconic. Its why I laugh at knocking kids for what they dont do well when they do some things as well or better than anyone out there. Both those kids are examples.

USSF seems hell bent of selecting kids who do several things to a good level. I prefer to find kids who do certain things to an exceptional level and work to utilize those skills whilst making clear weaknesses better.

Elite athleticism is as rare as elite vision or first touch. Somewhere along the line we have gotten complacent about athletes and decided we have loads of them so lets get a bunch of kids who appear "technical" ( a word I hate) .
Neither of those assets are in plentiful supply which is what makes them elite in the first place.



Anonymous said...

isn't it funny how only those that score get the pomp and circumstance and can be considered athletic and technical. oh, the dynamics of a true team; front to back. they are elite as well.

Anonymous said...

136 that's borderline defamation. Unless you spoke directly to one of her coaches you shouldn't be saying that about a kid. Someone is coaching her because she is very good. She's a different bird that's for sure. Carries herself differently and I have seen her show an unusual edge from the teenage cookie cutter pony tail girls that some may be put off by.

After watching our US WNT play several times this year I think an edgy creative player in the midfield would be a welcome addition. Not that this kid will be that good, but we shouldn't discount a kid because she's "different". In fact that "bite" may be an asset if channeled by a great coach. Certainly in a 16 year old still maturing kid we shouldn't exclude anyone because of this.

I agree 254. We need kids to at least be developed who display unusual abilities. Both, the WC and the PF kid do that. The PF kid that was picked for the camps recently is a great player for sure. In my opinion pretty solid in the technical and tactical area, but she doesn't do anything unusual like the other 2 do although I admit I have only seen her play once last season. I have seen the others more times.

The McLean kid who hasn't been mentioned is excellent and I think will excel in College. I also think the same of the WC kid. The PF kid who is at the camps will have size and athleticism challenges but like a Japanese player may be able to make up for those deficiencies.

The "tricky" kid is a wild card. I think she has a couple years to go. She is my favorite player to watch which is why I have commented here; you never know what's coming.

Anonymous said...

505 your agenda is showing. No one said that. No one mentioned goals. Defenders can be elite athletes with great first touches and vision as well. Reality is that attacking players make the huge money in the pros for a reason.

Anonymous said...

huge money in the pros? we are talking about women's soccer here.

Anonymous said...

6:07 - she is a good player, not a great player. there have been much better players before her and better younger players now. players come and players go.

Anonymous said...

954 Im not 607 but what a strange post. 607 seems to be balancing both present level and future potential. It is a hallmark of US youth soccer that we live in the now. Potential is ignored for the now. The players you mention who are younger may well be better, but I appreciate 607s attempt to outline why he sees the PF kid as special. You have just made a rather bland negative statement that seems designed to knock her down with no real evidence.

Its interesting over a cycle to look at an age group from little to now. My kid is a HS senior at the end of the line. When i look at her age group, I cant really think of very many kids who have fulfilled potential to date and continued to dominate from the start to now. Players change, kids normalize physically. Is the big fast kid, still that? Are they still finding ways to stay ahead of their peers or have others bloomed later and gone by them ? So when you say younger are better, I would say maybe, but lets see how that pans out over the next few years.

Either way I hope the kids mentioned above make it to College and I will be very interested to see if they continue to improve.

Anonymous said...

Oh my gosh. It was one game for all of these kids. let's see how the season progresses, shall we? since both teams scored plenty of goals they should be in the higher level brackets in the showcase in Dec.
want to come back to this in early spring too after kids graduate early; kids playing hs on the rosters come back. let's put a pin in this until then.

Anonymous said...

1127 you miss the point. It is not about one game this is a discussion about soccer player development. Actually higher level than usually occurs. You are trying to shift it back to the lower level which team is better type garbage. Feel free to ignore the more global conversation and wait until there are more results to discuss with the other soccer moms. 854 you are a tool. That kid probably "broke" your kids "ankles" a few times and made her look silly. Or you have a a kid on her team that is overshadowed or a younger one who hasn't been mentioned on her age board. Your character weakness is showing.

Anonymous said...

how is that poster missing the point? i guess i am missing the player development part, too. How is being successful over weak teams, player development? Like the prior poster, I think all of these discussions are premature. And, based on the scoreboards, other players should be in these discussions as well as far as player development.

i guess the proof of player development will be at the december showcase as the prior poster noted. having to compete with higher competition and seeing how these young ladies excel in that environment will give a better barometer of their development, their teammates as individuals and the success of the DA's philosophy in general.

Anonymous said...

1127 NYCFC are not a deep team and rely heavily on a few players in key spots. I dont think they will be any more than mid level in the GDA. As 719 said, its cool to see a discussion that is not about who is the best team. Personally I would rather watch the individuals on many teams to see if the GDA really does give them a platform to keep developing as players. College is very competitive and I would like to see some of the kids my D has played with and against go on to do big things at the next level

Anonymous said...

749 the discussion was not at all about team results after one game. Again the fact that a couple of players mentioned scored a brace or greater in their first games against weak competition wasn't considered a factor in generating this discussion. It was about how individual player uniqueness should be considered for development. Some of these players are unique in their relative athleticism and creativity and what that could bring to the higher levels. Indeed relatively sophisticated commentary on this board not surprised it's going over some heads.

Anonymous said...

So you are saying that if teams overall suck but one or two kids are good,US Soccer will be happy? I doubt it. My kid hasn't been on a team yet that was loaded with high level players. not even close and her team was quite successful. It's ALL about the individual efforts of some, including her, to help to compensate for others. and that's development of those players; learning how to be successful individuals despite their team and/or coaching or lack thereof. so, according to your logic, this was already working in ECNL.

Anonymous said...

8:01
so maybe those discussions should be moved to the academy page where i guess only some will understand; drool cups notwithstanding.

Anonymous said...

8:01 of course it will be great to see how some of these kids do in their next soccer lives. i think it is always great to tune in to a college game and see a kid you know from playing with or against succeed. isn't that what all of this is about? success of the child in their next level? granted some are only interested in their own kid's success, but it's really about all of them and their successes. they are doing the work. like to see when hard work pays off.

Anonymous said...

802 Games are largely identical between the 2 leagues. The big difference in my opinion is 4 months GDA vs 4m HS from a training perspective and the extra day of work. I can only speak for one club, but so far the training level, environment and subject matter is far better than I saw in the ECNL. The focus of the group is higher as well. It feels like those who are there, largely want to be and giving up HS has made some realize that they had better make the most of it. Again, only one club.

For my child, the ECNL was not working. Travelling to play 2x on a weekend is a bad idea for a 90 m player. I think it increases the injury risk dramatically and often the performances in game 2 reflected tired players. Of course that format favors the bigger destination Clubs like PDA or FC Stars.

Other than that , I really dont understand your post. The USSF are not in the business of mass production. They are looking for Individual development and thier hope is the GDA allows them to monitor the handful of players they ID. Just like allocated players in the NWSL.

Anonymous said...

821 Agreed, but it is worth restating that. Too often it reads like people are rooting against kids. I dont really care much if my kids team wins loses or draws , I just want her to play well, learn something, and have fun. I pray she stays healthy and committed to the sport becasue nothing gives me more pleasure than watch her out there. Its 90 mins where I can forget about most other things and just enjoy it and the journey so far.

Anonymous said...

interesting discussions. i agree with you as far as games in ECNL, too much. the comparison re the allocated players in NWSL is humorous, though. some dial it in in the NWSL. further, NWSL is loaded with international players many of which are outperforming allocated players.

Anonymous said...

808 or maybe you can just ignore them and skip to the my kids team is great and yours sucks posts.

Anonymous said...

isn't that what was going on when posters started discussing da scores and scores of friendlies? or were they posted for everyone's informational purposes?

Anonymous said...

840 Agree. Just put it there as food for thought. More to illustrate the USSF approach. There are US players who outperform allocated ones in the NWSL as well. The Federation rarely seem to care :) In my experience the USSF already have mids made up on most and will continue to pump $$ behind the players they have hand picked - irrespective of any evidence to the contrary.

My point is that the GDA can be of huge benefit to players who take it seriously whether they are called in to YNTs or not. The YNT marketing angle is a bad move in my opinion. Makes people believe that the only reason to play is if you think you are YNT standard. creates all sorts of animosity that need not be there. Just create a great league and see what happens

Anonymous said...

No the scored being posted were a statement regarding the nacient GDA and the growing pains associated with highly disparate teams. It wasn't a statement that one team was all that over another as is the usual level. But again these more sophisticated points are lost on many.

Anonymous said...

9:27 - 100% agree.

Anonymous said...

so now soft posting of disparity in scores is considered sophisticated? okay. surely the clubs on the other end feel that way as well. and, i'm connect to one of the winning squads.

Anonymous said...

1058 why so negative? has the conversation no moved on from whomever did that ?

Anonymous said...

not being negative. but throwing out a snarky remark to end a thought that the essence of the conversation is well above most poster's iq is a little negative or presumptious. that's all.

Anonymous said...

1107 Ok. that did not come from me not that you would know .

Anonymous said...

The negativity did not begin with that post it began with people acting as if this was a worthless discussion and based on scorelines as in the old which team is better conversations. In fact the scoreline was posted to initiate discussion regarding the relative strength of the GDA in its earliest evidence. Then a sophisticated discussion (barring the jealous negative commentary) of the selection characteristics of some of the YNT choices and projections etc. Now there is an interesting discussion regarding the NWSL and its place in NT development and selection and a discussion of the GDA position in this.

I personally think the USSF is doing a huge disservice to women's soccer development by bringing 16 year old kids, who by the way have not been successful in their own age groups, into national camps. What does that say to 22 year old players toiling in the NWSL for chump change whose only reason for staying is a chance to be allocated and earn a reasonable living with their passion. I think it will undermine the success of the NWSL because there may be limited numbers of players will to sacrifice if they won't be given a fair chance. I agree the USSF (at least the current regime) doesn't really seem to care if a player is successful or not in the NWSL. Some players are "annointed" as young teenagers and it appears that some people have their entire career invested in a very few young player's success. There is little chance that an player in whom no such investment has been made will succeed to the same levels. that undermines the chance of success of the GDA at least in the oldest age group.

Anonymous said...

Just a thought but could US soccer be realizing that the aging base of players needs to be replaced and are looking out to the next world cup cycle to be the springboard for the U16 players? The initial season of GDA will be a growing and learning phase with dual benefits for players. It elevated them in most Soccer pundits minds to the elite level of soccer in the US for 14-19 year old girls. Due to the restrictions and policies some teams (playing by the rules) are not as strong, but individual players on these teams can compete and succeed in the league and the format. As the first round of GDA shakes out I am sure USSF will do a post mortem and adjust. Just looking at the DA website/stats and game notes it is by far a better product than ECNL. I also have not been spammed continuously with the ECNL marketing blitz. It makes sense for players identified prior to GDA to be on the rosters and compete to hold their position. It is also an opportunity for players identified by their clubs to get in front of the establishment and prove themselves. It also provides the players with an additional opportunity to showcase their abilities for College coaches as most will still be looking for that opportunity. All this being said, there is still a place for ECNL and other leagues as there may always be someone who was missed who can shine. The one issue is that the NCAA needs to set and enforce rules to prevent any recruiting or committing before at least the fall of Jr. year. This would alleviate the phenom factor that often does not pan out.

Anonymous said...

I love the conversation and all the different opinions...minus the defensive responses of course.
Here's another thought...so a club now has the USSDA GDA emblem...but the coaches are the same...how is the development any better now?
Yes the team is made up of "the now top talent" and the competition may have changed...or not, if daughter played on good ecnl team...

Anonymous said...

11:52

I get your point, a fresh coat of paint on an old barn is still an old barn. But for converted ECNL teams the staff was the best identified at that club. Where there are deficiencies is where I see USSF stepping in. I am sure the ECNL did not manage down to oversight at the club coaching level, hopefully this will be something USSF has a hand in when needed. Also looks like a lot of coaching by committee with specific trainers at position levels.

Anonymous said...

not having to re-train returning HS players is a big issue that no one mentions. A coach I respect told me that every season , he spent at least a moth getting players back to the level they left the last season at due to bad habits picked up in HS.

Back to the USSF, I see what you are saying in theory 1147, but it remains to be seen how much influence the TAs really have with the YNT coaches. the whole play up phenomenon is such a US "invention" another badge designed to tell the uninitiated that my kid is somehow more special than yours. Its actually sad to see the USSF extending this thru youth teams all the way to the full NT.

If a player is good enough to PLAY for the full NT and be successful, then she is old enough. However it feels like so many of these advancements are to justify coaching decisions made years ago that may or may not be still relevant. Take the 16 yr olds currently ion China with the U-19 team. None of those kids are better than many on age players . Some are so much worse that you cannot cover it by "potential" You just cant. So what is the reason? This is why i fear for the GDA- if its NOT merit based then lets not pretend it is.

I am contradicting myself a little becasue I believe the YNT angle is not required to make the GDA a great league. I only mention it as a litmus test of relative competence and intent at the very top. Personally, I dont think AH has a clue about soccer. Nor do I think AK does. I honestly believe if they had to go an coach a very good College team, they would fail. In fact, I think that is partly why they are where they are. hey ahve faile "up" to this level.

Anonymous said...

Agreed. I also question how much the US TAs will have influence in the club arena.
Given a solid chance, will a club be scrutinized and "encouraged" to improve their staff?

Anonymous said...

I would think that a player good enough to be considered for the full NT would dominate on age. They clearly did not int he u17 WC and i dont think they even did that in the ECNL

Anonymous said...

12:36 - have failed up. love it. sounds like congress. And THAT works so well. :)

Anonymous said...

Appreciate the good discussions and lack of dissecting of the kids, which by the way, like us, all have good days and off days.
plenty of challenges ahead re the DA it seems.

Anonymous said...

Potential at some point needs to be fulfilled. On that note, does Pugh have to be dominant in the NWSL or equivalent pro league for it all to have been worth it form the USSF PoV? Can she continue as the 3rd or 4 th option on the NT and its ok? Or is t just another marketing ploy?

Im still waiting to see any sign that she is the player I was promised by so many so called experts.

To me. so much of this ties back to the core of what we want to be in soccer on the Womens side and who is actually running the game here. Is there a single ECNL era player currently dominating a league or a guaranteed starter on the full NT ?

Anonymous said...

ugh to pugh...

Anonymous said...

Agreed re Pugh. What about her teammates who play for pennies and don't have sponsors? I guess USSF really doesn't care. The product is what her? or the league? How do you promote good team play when you are promoting indivdualism? And then are scratching your head why the team doesn't play well together.

Anonymous said...

Sanchez is looking good at UCLA

Anonymous said...

123 lets widen it to say plenty of challenges for WoSo in the US in general. DA/ECNL are just part of a bigger issue I think.

Anonymous said...

I think sanchez and Flemming would have outshined Pugh and Pugh couldn't risjk being an above average NCAA player

Anonymous said...

like morgan brian?

Anonymous said...

Sanchez is another golden child. to date has not led a team to victory in anything. Im fine with all of these kids being good players, they are. I just question the USSF led over selling. let them achieve it ON the field and we will all be happy. I think the public are beyond being spoon fed ( maybe not!!)

UCLA have many good players, but I think Pugh and her handlers realized the money was there NOW. may not have been there in a year. Pugh has played with Sanchez many times and I dont think she feared being overshadowed at all.

Brian is a WC winner. Played a decent role in that. Has not done much since. USSF need to figure out IF they really want to build a passing/movement type team. If they do, then she should play. if not, she should not even be allocated. I feel she is almost held as a token to show people "hey we are trying to be that way . Look. MB is allocated !!!!" And yet they seem to have no real plan to utilize her much

Anonymous said...

Y'all are thinking too deep.
Sanchez is cuter than Pugh who's cuter than Brian.

But really...Brian is not the type of player woso is looking for. Quick and over the top seems to be the play of the day not passing/movement

Anonymous said...

Sanchez outplayed Pugh in the u20 WC

Anonymous said...

224 but is that not the issue? They should be playing together for the good of the team. USSF frames these things like Highlander ...there can only be one.

Anonymous said...

Haha. Yep. I just find it so bizarre. How can a governing body of a team sport not promote team play?

Anonymous said...

306 its all about becoming the IT girl

Wambach vs Lloyd
Morgan vs Press
Pugh vs Sanchez
Smith vs Pinto

its what the USSF mistake for competition. It promotes selfish play.

Anonymous said...

Crazy. I read the Lloyd book. Good read. Described the savagery at camps among players/pool players/staff. Lord of the Flies, like. Charming huh?

Anonymous said...

Well, maybe not quite as bad as that classic novel.

Anonymous said...

Actually it is...

Anonymous said...

I don't see a way out of the cut throat battle when players are fighting for spots...

Anonymous said...

Agree that Pugh was the next It Player, has a lot of the look of what US soccer wants to promote and I believe her (parents) may have seen a year competing at the top NCAA level might have hurt her stock going forward. I see this a lot at the club level, where younger players are identified and coaches are tied to them until either the coach leaves or the player leave. I have also seen coaches become DOC's that still need to support previous player decisions, putting coaches in difficult situations. Somewhat like pro football - 1st round picks need to see playing time! Just like some Club teams recruit and don't train to build teams, I am not sure if the NT coaches are looking to do a lot of skills and soccer brain training when putting together teams to compete on the international level. Cyber-metrics don't work in soccer.

Anonymous said...

agree. i don't see NT doing soccer brain training. i thought one of the check-off list items re elevated kids is soccer iq. they will refine but not teach. makes sense in older ages, but not younger.

Anonymous said...

Prayers to all affected by recent and current storm systems. May affect various showcases in FL depending on what occurs.

Anonymous said...

discussion topic - how are kids balancing their new schedules with school and then high school or school and GDA trainings? Any issues re over scheduling or too soon to tell?

Anonymous said...

With my kid, it's been better but it depends on the school load now that they are back. Always juggling it seems.

Anonymous said...

1:43 - seems like the showcase areas took the storm in the mouth. very sad.

Anonymous said...

Maybe now we can get the NCAA Womens event back in NC where it belongs

Anonymous said...

Good point. But I think the west coast teams feel that they are at a disadvantage coming to east coast all the time. shows in the amount of west coast champs overall so maybe there is something to it.
But there is something exciting about Cup play in NC. Remember when UCLA won a few yrs ago, it was freezing.

Anonymous said...

Thoughts on the article below? I wish our club had allowed this....Seniors only...

http://highschoolsports.nj.com/news/article/-3980606800377556925/seniors-take-advantage-of-academy-waivers-earn-one-last-run-in-high-school-girls-soccer/#incart_hssn-rr-1

Anonymous said...

Waivers should be granted by the USSF on the basis of special situations/evidence. Other than that, Im not at all n favor of them. If a kid wants to play HS, then they can. Most of the girls in this article have an ECNL option within the same club that could easily accommodate them. Why do they need to play DA ?

Anonymous said...

True but DA is publicized as top tier hence the attraction over ecnl

Anonymous said...

I think you are being disrespectful and unreasonable, 8:10

Very difficult decisions were made re: DA and high school. Tears shed. If a few can be spared - can be allowed to do both - good for them.

I did like the Princeton Day School coach "speech" at NJ.com regarding the matter. Slaps the DA pretty hard. Google it if interested.

Anonymous said...

I don't see it as disrespectful.
It's the poster's opinion, however small you feel it is.

Anonymous said...

959 Some kids shed tears and made a decision and stuck to it. Do you think its fairer for a Club coach to use the waiver as a marketing tool ? to be the decider of who gets and who does not? Rules are there for a reason. If you allow Clubs to be the decider then why have rules at all.?

Anonymous said...

USSF allowed the clubs to make that decision for this year.
Anyone remember this article?

http://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/about-face-heinrichs-says-girls-development-academy-will-allow-high-school-play/

Anonymous said...

Are we still having this discussion? Not trying to be saucy, but it's done; in particular for this year. League play, all of them including fall hs, are already underway.

Now, some areas aren't playing hs yet (play hs in mid winter or spring) so maybe something will change for those areas. I doubt it, but maybe.

Next year could be different. Good luck to all of them where ever they are playing.

Anonymous said...

The DA clubs have a number of roster spots to fill (Min-Max) and a number of transfers as determined by US Soccer. They are also allowed a specific number of DP players. How the Club balances those numbers is up to them. A waver is up to the club to accept the risk of padding the roster with weaker players or fewer players than the plan to in the spring. It is allowable by the rules.

Accepting the waver is a completely different issue. If you decide to play DA and then take a temp leave of absence to play HS, you must now accept risk too. You may loose "your" spot to a more dedicated player, not improve at the same rate as the others, pick up bad habits, get injured by less skilled HS players, and not form bonds with the team and coaching staff.

I don't see many clubs offering wavers next year. It is not worth the aggravation. Watch what happens when these players return after HS and are not welcomed with open arms.

Anonymous said...

250 in theory, yes. In practice...no way. these waivers re mostly ability, not need based. In fact some of the replacements have already been told they will be going to the bench or ECNL teams when the cavalry arrives. Lets not pretend that waivers were anything but a tool to keep so called better player in the GDA, no matter the collateral damage to others.

I respect the Clubs that did not offer these waivers of convenience. I don think that was ever the USSF intention and i believe the only reason they are turning a blind eye to it is becasue its year one.

Anonymous said...

https://www.si.com/soccer/2017/09/14/nasl-us-soccer-sanctioning-division-2-future-league-usa-club-landscape

Seven years in, pulled the plug. They need to prove viability. So, guys' soccer has these struggles as well.

Anonymous said...

3:33 - some kids had their scholarships threatened at their high schools if they didn't play. So some was ability, need and demand. Shame, these are kids.

Anonymous said...

I'll bet these are schools that tell everyone, "we don't give athletic scholarships; it's merit. " If so, then as long as kids have good grades and are good students, it should be their choice as hard as it may be. A school that truly cares about the success of the child doesn't do that.

Anonymous said...

441 that qulifies as "need", but I bet you the vast majority are not need based.

Anonymous said...


If a private school gives a kid a scholarship to play ball then they have to play school ball. If they don’t play school ball, then pay the tuition or go back to public school.

There are a number of good players currently playing private high school soccer and this spring they will be taking the spot of a girl that gave up playing public school high school soccer. One kid shows commitment to playing fall and spring DA, giving up high school soccer, while another is less committed and plays both, and that player will take the spot of girls that played DA in the fall. Seems fair….

Come spring, you are absolutely going to have some aggravated parents and players.

Only weak DA clubs will allow waivers. MLS DA clubs don't give you a choice. If top GDA programs want respect then they should do the same.

It should be either DA or high school sports.

Anonymous said...

My understanding is the DA hs waivers were this first year only.
Next season, any child wanting to play in DA will either play in DA all season or will be playing in another league. No exceptions.

And the above post regarding kids coming back I think isn't global. Some teams are running successfully without the hs kids. They will need to fit in. It won't be the opposite. The game has continued without them as far as training, physicality, game speed which isn't there in most high schools. This is the set back hs kids will face. Being good in hs is very different than being good in DA. And my kid opted into high school for the first year of the DA. I think she regrets it.

Anonymous said...

"Fair" went out at u14. Its all about putting the best players on the field at this point.

Anonymous said...

737 you dont address the issue. Its not a fair or unfair thing. Why do kids NEED to come back to GDA teams after HS? Why not just play ECNL?

Anonymous said...

Thank you! "fair" should have gone out in U6 along with the participation medals

Anonymous said...

Optimistic signs for US women soccer...at least in Cincinnati last night.
30K+ crowd! Awesome to see

Anonymous said...

Dont be fooled by the tip of the USSF WNT marketing spear. The game is never going to be in good shape until the NWSL is vibrant and thriving. KC, Boston and Seattle all emitting worrying signals. Owners failing to meet minimum league standards. Until the USSF realize that you cannot keep pouring $$ into the NT program whilst the rest of the league are on the breadline, we will not build anything sustainable.

The mirage that is 30k people at a NT game is just that.

Anonymous said...

9:36 why aren't the DA's supporting their NWSL shield? Those teams aligned with only certain clubs while ignoring others. How's that working out?

Anonymous said...

Because when the league folds they don't want to have to put a patch over top of it.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
737 you don't address the issue. Its not a fair or unfair thing. Why do kids NEED to come back to GDA teams after HS? Why not just play ECNL?

Well if the DA team is the top team in the club (PDA or Penn Fusion or Breakers or Fury or NYCFC (WC) ect) and a kid on the team opted for High School often because of a scholarship private school situation, then why should a player coming back have to play on a second team if she is good enough to "make" the top team?

To be clear, I don't think the club is obligated to show preference to a kid who played in the fall. Now the real question will be the relative development of the players in the disparate environments. A kid at McDonough or Pennington may very well advance as fast as a DA kid. A kid in a school team with a low level program coached by a teacher who never played beyond u10 rec and with teammates at rec level may lose out. She maybe isn't as competitive as the others with more of a developmental opportunity.

Again the best players should play at the highest level. Are you suggesting a kid who has been playing for PDA for 6 years and chooses to play high school for whatever reason should be REQUIRED to play on the ECNL "B" team? I think not. If she's good enough to make the roster of the DA team upon her return she should be on the DA team. Yes that may bump a kid to the bench or even one to the B team, but that's the nature of this beast.

Anonymous said...

900

Waivers should be NEED based. No issue with that at all. Players who simply want to play with friends are making a choice. Are you asying that there should be no consequences of that? What about the kids who have devoted time to playing GDA? Should they just be told ..sorry, Jane is back now ?

She should be obligated becasue she already made the choice. There should not be an option to "make" the team mid season. If that exists, then why have waivers at all? just dont sign up and then show up after HS to "try out" NYCFC are not allowing any waivers. HS players play ECNL at WC.

The best player currently do not pakly at the highest level. The best of those that can afford to and want to, do. Your statement is not clear. An ECNL/GDA player who decides to play for a Public HS with friends vs poor competition is telling you that she values playing at the highest level below other things. Thats fine and well within her rights, so why are they so concerned post HS ? Whose to say that the ECNL team is worse than the GDA team anyways? The two pools should just represent kids with different interests during HS season.

And yes, thats exactly what im saying. If a kid chooses to not play in teh GDA for a non NEED based reason, then the GDA should not even be an option. And done get me wrong, I an perfectly happy for anyone to choose any option they want , but all options should not be open to all at all times. The kids that ALSO made a difficult choice AT THE TIME should not then be displaced or have their experience changed by the mid season addition of kids who were not willing to make that sacrifice at the time it was mandated. if that si not the case, then why have deadlines at all?

Ti si supposed to be about individual development right, so if it is , the individuals who have bought in to that ONE YEAR program from the start should be protected for ONE YEAR. If you choose HS FOR NON NEED BASED REASONS then thats your choice - LIVE WITH IT for the year. Its called being accountable





Anonymous said...

"Waivers should be NEED based. No issue with that at all. Players who simply want to play with friends are making a choice. Are you asying that there should be no consequences of that?"

The consequences are in a possible reduced developmental opportunity offered by high school over DA. While the waivers are acceptable, the clubs are in no way obligated to penalize the player for her choice to play high school

"What about the kids who have devoted time to playing GDA? Should they just be told ..sorry, Jane is back now ?"

Yes, if Jane is better than the player in question.

"She should be obligated becasue she already made the choice. There should not be an option to "make" the team mid season."

There should always be an option to add a player good enough to earn a roster spot, play and or start.

"If that exists, then why have waivers at all?"

This is a good question. The USSF put the waivers in place for players graduating from high school on or before 2021. Those players may have to change high schools if they lose a soccer scholarship which was seen as harsh. However another reason is that the USSF wanted to make sure it didn’t lose players out of the DA who wanted to continue her high school soccer experience. In other words to improve the chances of gathering better players into the DA

“ just dont sign up and then show up after HS to "try out"
That’s not the current USSF rule. That is your opinion and I have to say one based on your own child’s position on the team.
NYCFC are not allowing any waivers. HS players play ECNL at WC.”
It’s the club’s choice to allow or disallow waivers. The USSF allowed the clubs the choice. For those that choose to participate in the waiver program, no player should be penalized for the CLUB’s choice. The player’s with waivers are playing within the club’s and USSF designated rules. Upon their return or before their absence, their status on the team should only be determined by their ability. This assumes they are following all club rules on attendance and behavior etc.

"The best player currently do not pakly at the highest level. The best of those that can afford to and want to, do. Your statement is not clear. "

I would argue that your statement is not clear


Anonymous said...

"An ECNL/GDA player who decides to play for a Public HS with friends vs poor competition is telling you that she values playing at the highest level below other things. Thats fine and well within her rights, so why are they so concerned post HS ?"

A player’s choice within the rules is simply her choice at this point in time. I for example know of a player who is chosing high school in hopes of all American and Gatorade player of the year accolades. She has a full soccer scholarship to a prestigious university. That’s her choice and she is playing by the rules when she comes back as a starter for her DA team in a few weeks.

"Whose to say that the ECNL team is worse than the GDA team anyways?"

There are absolutely some ECNL teams that are better than some DA teams. Looking at the DA rosters, it is clear though that the majority of the BEST players in a specific club, and ALL of the top 3 players in the age groups within clubs with DA, are playing on the DA team and the B team is either the ECNL team if there is one within the club or the NPL team. The best teams in the DA are clearly the former ECNL teams. The best ECNL teams will be the new teams or possibly the ECNL teams without DA

"The two pools should just represent kids with different interests during HS season."

Absolutely agree that within the high school season there may be two pools of players, those that want to play HS and those who do not. Outside the HS season the DA becomes a meritocracy and the best players are rostered, play and start regularly.

"And yes, thats exactly what im saying. If a kid chooses to not play in teh GDA for a non NEED based reason, then the GDA should not even be an option."

Disagree. It is currently within the USSF rules to allow a club to issue a waiver. If the club decides to do so, said player is participating within the rules and her status should not be diminished.

"And done get me wrong, I an perfectly happy for anyone to choose any option they want , but all options should not be open to all at all times."

The USSF, again, issued a policy that in certain circumstances, kids graduating from HS on or before 2021 waivers may be issued. The clubs may then choose whether or not to offer waivers and to whom a waiver may be offered.

Anonymous said...

"The kids that ALSO made a difficult choice AT THE TIME should not then be displaced or have their experience changed by the mid season addition of kids who were not willing to make that sacrifice at the time it was mandated."

Disagree: the DA is built on the premise of developing the best players. For now, it is permitted and within the rules to play HS on waivers, those kids should not be penalized beyond the developmental opportunity they may be sacrificing.

" if that si not the case, then why have deadlines at all?"

There will always be provisions for adding players to DA teams up to a “full roster” level. (30). Again the purpose is to identify and develop the country’s top players one will not be denied because she was not identified or added at the beginning of the season. As long as the rules for adding a player are followed there is no ethical issue to adding a DA player mid year who may displace others from their current status as “Star”, “Starter”, or “bench” etc.

"Ti si supposed to be about individual development right, so if it is , the individuals who have bought in to that ONE YEAR program from the start should be protected for ONE YEAR."
I agree their roster spots should be protected, if they were initially included, but their play time and status is always fluid at the highest levels. I have no issue with a kid, let’s say 28 on the depth chart, never playing in a game except for her 25% starts and then for 20 minutes in those games. That is well within the rules and you accept those rules when you accept the roster spot.

"If you choose HS FOR NON NEED BASED REASONS then thats your choice - LIVE WITH IT for the year. Its called being accountable"

It is their choice and again the rules allow for waivers, The only consequence at this time is the potential for “lost” developmental opportunity.

Anonymous said...

Oh and my kid is playing DA and gave up high school FYI.

Anonymous said...

I totally disagree. To support the system you want, the GDA should have a split season. It does not. Kids with waivers are already rostered so where is the tryout you speak of? All kids should have been told, if you do not want to join the GDA NOW, no problem, you can try out for the spring season. Its one season. There would be no need for any HS waiver at all. EVER.

The entry to the GDA is set by date. Its not hey, show up whenever you want becasue the purpose is to id the best players. Ther are alwayts going to be special circumstances, but that goes back to the original point that you are ignoring - a WAIVER should be granted to join MID season becasue of a NEED or SPECIAL circumstance and , I want to play with my friends, or I may be a PoY is not that. Those are both CHOICES, PREFERENCES that a player has chosen and they should live with them.

I bet the USSF get way tougher on this next year or just forget the entire pretense of waivers. Its clear that there is a rigorous interpretation from some clubs and the total opposite from others.

The players who have committed to the GDA and potentially made a sacrifice to do so,deserve the respect of an annual commitment that should not change for NON NEED based returnees.





Anonymous said...

Do you know what a mission statement is?
The USSF mission statement with the DA is form the USSF website:

Mission

The U.S. Soccer Development Academy impacts everyday club environments to develop world-class players.

http://www.ussoccerda.com/overview-what-is-da

The development of world class players is its mission. The actions of the USSF in allowing waivers for a limited time in order to encourage potential "world class players" to join or stay is consistent with its mission. Putting players who have no world class potential on the bench in favor of kids with potential for world class performance is entirely consistent with its mission. I don;t expect you to understand this, but others reading might.

It's amazing to me that this mission promotes a viable non profit business. There are very few players with true "world class" potential. But i guess the model is entirely based on delusional parents and their delusion that theirs is one of the very few for whom the developmental academy was created to serve.

Anonymous said...

Do you think world class performance is consistent with setting relatively low targets like.playing with friends or winning HS games and awards ?

I think a kid with world class talent wants to be the best. Period. Not the best in HS.

World class talent usually require drive , ambition and sacrifice to achieve world class things.

Very hard to reconcile world class with players who think the GDA is the best (according to you) but don't want to challenge themselves in it yr round. I would respect the stance more if they thought the GDA was a bad idea and not going to work. The fact they want to join it suggests otherwise.



Eric Harris said...

Saturday September 23, 2017 at 9:50am
Sky Blue - PDA U14 vs Virginia Development Academy U14 (VA)
Livestream Game Link Video Start Time Saturday September 23, 2017 9:50 am
Videostreaming start time will begin 10-15 mins prior to kickoff
http://thecube.com/r/748658


Saturday September 23, 2017 at 11:50am
Sky Blue - PDA U15 vs Virginia Development Academy U15 (VA)
Livestream Game Link Video Start Time Saturday September 23, 2017 11:50 am
Videostreaming start time will begin 10-15 mins prior to kickoff
http://thecube.com/r/748666



Saturday September 23, 2017 at 2:20pm
Sky Blue - PDA U16/U17 vs Virginia Development Academy U16/U17 (VA)
Livestream Game Link Video Start Time Saturday September 23, 2017 2:20 pm
Videostreaming start time will begin 10-15 mins prior to kickoff
http://thecube.com/r/748669



Saturday September 16, 2017 at 4:50pm
Sky Blue - PDA U18/U19 vs Virginia Development Academy U18/U19 (VA)
Livestream Game Link Video Start Time Saturday September 23, 2017 4:50 pm
Videostreaming start time will begin 10-15 mins prior to kickoff
http://thecube.com/r/748671

Anonymous said...

Do you think world class performance is consistent with setting relatively low targets like.playing with friends or winning HS games and awards ?

I think in this age group there are some world class potential players who see it as a few months of lower level to keep loyal to the team they have carried for 3 years. I think it is correct to TRANSITION the DA to absolutely no High School by 2021. In other words, you seem to fail to understand that the waiver program is a transition strategy to get the DA best stood up in a crowded market. It only works if nearly all of the BEST players in a market served by the DA are playing for DA clubs on the DA teams.

World class talent usually require drive , ambition and sacrifice to achieve world class things.

Don't disagree. However, I don't think a kid wanting to play a few months of high school soccer her senior year when her teammates and coach arev counting on her is evidence otherwise. I definitely don't see evidence otherwise if she has a soccer scholarship to Pennington or McDonough and wouls have to change schools because of the loss of scholarship if she doesnt play. Those schools offer a comparable developmental advantage.

Very hard to reconcile world class with players who think the GDA is the best (according to you) but don't want to challenge themselves in it yr round.

At this point, as with many start ups, the quality is highly variable. I think some of these teams are pretty bad actually. I definitely don't blame kids on the weak teams for playing high school. I think some of the private schools are as "challenging" and again I don't think a kid should have to change schools for a few months of soccer. By the time to DA is in full swing there will be no waivers and no issue.

I would respect the stance more if they thought the GDA was a bad idea and not going to work. The fact they want to join it suggests otherwise.

Again your statement is correct if the GDA was in full swing with "meaningful games" every week. Unfortunately as with most start ups there are growing pains this year and for the next few. Some of the GD are pretty staggering as they were with the early ECNL. I am not sure what kind of developmental opportunity is being offered there.

Again I think you are confusing the compromises the USSF has allowed during its first years of transition with evidence that the model is flawed.
I think you have a kid who is playing on a DA team who will be negatively impacted by kids returning from HS soccer. If she is then she is not world class and honestly the USSF doesn't really care. She is there to provide a venue for the kids they are really interested in. The USSF agrees with you that HS soccer is not generally an optimal developmental opportunity. hence they will close the loophole in 2021.

Anonymous said...

Please explain how waivering players for non need reasons helps the GDA stand up ? usually, people pay the closest attention to a project at the very beginning. 10-0 scorelines dont help. The players who you are arguing over sound like at worst Jnr, probably seniors, so your point is that making concessions to them now helps the GDA ? How?

I am looking forward to these world class talents coming back form HS and driving theses teams to new heights, but somehow I think the truth is that some Clubs want to win (or make $$) so its waivers all around if the player getting the waiver is marginally better than what they have. The world class argument is just not consistent with the number of waivers.

Please stop raising the need based waivers. I am no disputing them at all. The topic is no need based. waivers. The quality is always going to be variable. It is even more variable when you allow non need based waivers. It seems that the majority of your points relate to non need based waivers which are not in dispute. Whilst I fully support a need based waiver system WITH NO TIME LIMITATIONS, if a private school is similar in development to the GDA, then we have bigger issues.

Anonymous said...

For comparison, look at 2 clubs. FC Stars and PDA. Both offer ECNL and GDA. Both are in areas with decent HS soccer. One club has a roster full of waivers, the other does not. Why?

Anonymous said...

1001 here.. Obv i mean your point relate to need based waivers. Please focus on non need based ONLY. I have no issue with kids getting waivers for a real need.

Anonymous said...

I thought I had answered your question:

"If that exists, then why have waivers at all?"

This is a good question. The USSF put the waivers in place for players graduating from high school on or before 2021. Those players may have to change high schools if they lose a soccer scholarship which was seen as harsh. However another reason is that the USSF wanted to make sure it didn’t lose players out of the DA who wanted to continue her high school soccer experience. In other words to improve the chances of gathering better players into the DA

And I will add to make it more clear to you:

The environment today is completely different than the 2007 boys world. The USSF had to stand up the GDA in the very face of a successful "elite" league. There existed strong "competition". One of the big hurdles they saw in creating a second competitive league was its a perceived problem convincing girls who had already tasted HS to give it up. They need a critical mass of decent players to provide the venue in which they can corral the very few truly WNT potential kids for ID and development. In order to compete with the ECNL and USYSA for the best players, they had to allow a provision for only the older players to continue playing HS ball until they aged out. To say it another way, the waiver program helped to remove the inherent competitive disadvantage the model provides during its "start up" period.

Now having siad that I think they have the wrong model.

Here's my model

I would have left the ECNL alone. Instead I would have funded, with the millions the USSF is putting into this initiative, more of an ODP type model. I would have picked about 25 markets: lets say 3 So cal, 1 Norcal, 1 PNW, 1 colorado, 3 Texas, 2 Florida, 1 Georgia, 1 NC, 2 VA, 1 Baltimore, 1 PA, 1 NJ, 2 NY, 1 MA, 1 OH, 1 MI, 1 IL, 1 WI just to throw it out there.

Then I would have yes had more travel to fund, but fewer teams to help stand up. I would have created 3 regional events and 1 national event. I would have put the teams in boys DA league maybe a u17 girls teams in the u14 boys DA league The u19 girls teams in u 15 league or whereever the sweet spot is. The balance could be found.

As it currently exists it is further diluting the scouting and competition because it is too big. But no one asked me.

Anonymous said...

Ty for your model. You still do not explain why catering to players who simply want to play HS for no structural reason makes the GDA better. If you told me that there were several players with YNT potential who were turning their backs on the GDA becasue of it , then the USSF have a bigger problem.

The USSF take camps and attendance very seriously. My opinion is that the waiver process is not for the kids, its for the Clubs. Its a way of them getting more kids on rosters so the Clubs can charge to cover costs. The players themselves who bypass the GDA for non need based reasons are not going to register on the YNT id scale and stay waivered. The USSF are going to ignore them (not good enough) OR say I need a very good reason why you keep playing HS (if exceptional).

I don think the USSF give two hoots about playing with friends of PoY awards when they schedule camps etc to coincide with HS championships, ECNL Championships or anything else. At the level they say they are looking for, they seek single minded dedication .

You may be right as to why they offer them, but I dont think it achieves what you say it does. A waiver is not going to draw more kids into full time GDA. Its just a marketing tool for the Clubs and if you really think the players with waivers have exceptional potential then you are not doing them any favors if you dont present the pros and cons.

Waivers are largely a tool to keep old ECNL teams together in Clubs that offer both. There are some real need based exceptions, but the majority are just not that.

Anonymous said...

Do you mean the overall system is too big or GDA too big?

Something happened between ECNL and US Soccer. Had the kids played nicely in the sandbox, still, we would not be having this conversation. Maybe it was ECNL's decision to include boys when the ECNL league was formed to be a similar model to the boy's DA. US Soccer men and women's don't seem to be aligned, so maybe US Soccer saw that as the future of the combined ECNL model and acted accordingly.

So maybe that is why ECNL could not be left alone. I am just speculating, of course. But, once US Soccer formed it's own Girls' League, the kids and clubs flocked to it. And some clubs left ECNL all together.

For years ODP was the model, then ECNL, now GDA. All of them were the US Soccer brainchild. US Soccer decided it needed to have total control. Now, it does.

Anonymous said...

12:43 - spot on.

Anonymous said...

The boys DA worked because it felt like the most competitive league and was an honor to be selected to a team. Some of these DA teams are so poor its hard to see participation as an honor.

The USSF put the waivers in to increase the relative competitiveness of the DA in a crowded market until it grows its legs.

Anonymous said...

So poor? vs. other strong GDA teams? or in general? I haven't found any to be poor. I have found, like in ECNL and USYS, some teams stronger than others, but not poor play.

Anonymous said...

Agreed, and some teams had kids away at nat'l camps.

Anonymous said...

In usysa there were some super lopsided games in R1 Strikers were pretty dominant.
ECNL was much closer last year. There were very few blow outs across the country and the NE was very tight. The 2 CT teams were the weakest and they weren't horrible largely.
There are yes some really weak DA teams. VDA, LI, Sky blue NYSC and empire united are clearly "poor" teams. No ECNL team last year was as weak in the NE. PAC is probably just above "Poor" and again probably would not have won a game in the ECNL. The baltimore team was mjising their 2001 superstar but how much will she be there and I personally will believe it if I see she really can carry that team to better results.

Yup poor teams in the DA> Some really good teams too. Penn Fusion is better, PDA is the same and that's a complement, FC Stars and Breakers strong. Fury same as last year's albertson team. Oakwood may be the only decent add. All in all a lot less consistent competition.

Anonymous said...

4:05 do you have a kid that even plays in GDA? Some of the "poor" GDA teams would beat USYS and ECNL teams maybe even some you mentioned.

I would not say Strikers dominated in nat'l league loosing all 3 games at nationals, either.

I agree that Region 1 teams are always top of the boards in all of the leagues. But the boards are all over the place, now, like the kids. Will be interesting to see how all of this plays out at the end of the seasons.

Anonymous said...

405 Same way she carried the ECNL team with other YNT kids? Stop. Good player, not a difference maker

Anonymous said...

https://www.sounderatheart.com/2017/9/22/16353082/laura-harvey-england-national-team

NWSL could loose only female head coach to head back across the pond.

And, Marta and Sam Kerr being left off short list re FIFA?? How? Are the politics of soccer become too much?

Anonymous said...

810
So potentially of interest, I took my daughter to see the Washington Spirit Breakers game on Saturday evening. She has played in the ECNL for many years and decided to stay with her team which is not a DA club. She's all good in the ECNL, but we had an interest in seeing the 99/00 DA game just before. She wanted to see the level of the DA, and she wanted to see the Spirit superstar u17 WC player play against a decent team. She thought she might also consider the DA in the future, but after watching what we did, maybe not.

Have to say that game was shocking. I am not even sure what the score was, but let's say it was somewhere around 7 or 8 to 1. And it could have been worse. Penn Fusion was obviously told to play keep away the last 15 minutes of the game to keep the score down.

The superstar did have an assist on the spirit only goal, but was pretty invisible except for the many times she turned the ball over or got torched by the PF midfielders. She appeared out of her element playing up. Was not the best player on her team and not even close to being the best player on the field.

Fascinating to me that this kid was picked over probably 5 or 6 clearly superior kids on both teams. We checked the roster and the best PF kid who just came back from China wasn't even there. So minus their own superstar, PF really faced no competition at all.

How was that a "meaningful game" for either team?

Anonymous said...

Not sure what game you are watching 903,but the national player was clearly the best player on her team. She made several runs carving up the midfield in the back line including the one where she assisted on the beautiful goal. Not going to say she played great the whole game as you can see she was disinterested at times because the lack of talent around her. I'm sure it's frustrating for her. As for the PF national player, I've seen her play. I'm not sure shes top 2-3 on that team.
The DA thing is gonna take some time, not for some 99/00 teams, this is going to be a debacle all season long.

Anonymous said...

Both players are good. Neither changes games. To think one will probably be a 2x WC player.......all you need to know about the level of the pool and the selection process

Anonymous said...

@938 I was watching the game where she regularly lost the ball and played 0 defense. The fact that you admit she was "disinterested" is telling to me. A real champion quality player would not show character weakness such as you attribute to her. A champion would be trying her best to bring the other players up instead of disappearing in her "disinterest". So you are saying you think its ok that she withdrew in the face of her weaker teammates? If that's true someone should be calling into the NT to have her removed from the next camp list immediately. I think you just called her a prima dona did you not? Anyway she was ineffective from the start before her team had begun being the subject of a steam roll so I think your explanation is probably false. I think it more likely she just isn't good enough to succeed on her own. I suspect that some of the PF kids would have singularly scored several goals if they had been placed on the opposite team. The Spirit kid just wasn't that good. As @943 said is not a game changer.

I don't know the PF team much before this game. They had several kids who were levels above the Spirit kid. I don't know the absent U19 NT player, but to me it looked like PF did have at least a couple NT camp quality kids on that field.

@943 PF didn't need any other kid to change that game. They had it in hand from the start. In a kid destined for 2 u17 WCs I would have liked to have seen a fire of indignation. A single decent run does not make a champion. And no that was nothing special. Dribble endline and cross back is pretty basic. The PF players carved that kid up right through the center in many truly "special" runs and combinations. One of the best ball handlers on the field was a PF holding mid. Head to Head with the spirit kid. No contest who was the better player. PF has one of the most dangerous forwards I have ever seen. She did seem a little checked out after scoring several goals. Maybe PF limits their kids' scoring since they seem to have had several lopsided games and clearly they were told no more goals in the last 15 or so.

I would have challenged any unknowing but savvy onlooker to pick the "special" player destined for two world cups from that game. No way was he picking the right kid

Anonymous said...

Baltimore/ DC area held their best players in the ECNL. Obviously nobody told Bethesda or MD United that the national players had to play in the DA. The result is way too much dilution for the DA teams to be competitive in the older ages. USSF probably doesn't care about the older age groups. lets the YNT players stay on their ECNL teams.

So what exactly does a YNT "scout" report in these lopsided games?

Not that the "dangerous" forward threw in a hattrick against a weak defense I don't think. Not that there were two great ball handlers. In my estimation he reports that the YNT player didn't step up for her team if this reporting is accurate and seems to be by two accounts. But it won;t matter because that's not how it all actually works

Anonymous said...

10:23. You almost sound like one of these PF chest thumpers bragging about a win or how well their kid played.
Very thorough observations for somebody who just walk in off the street. Did you watch her play 90 minutes or did you see this spirt girl play for 900 minutes? Reason I ask is because I can sit down and watch any professional game at any level and pick out a player after seeing her just one time and say she don't belong. It's unfair to make an assessment of a player just from one game. These kids, and they are kids, have up-and-down games.
She had her moments on the field where I could see why they picked her. Not saying she's was a superstar or that she played a great game from start to finish, but neither did any of the PF players. I saw a lot of disinterested PF players by halftime too. Does that make them any less of players?
The game in question was over halfway through the first half. With lesser talent around her, it's not hard to see her or anyone "check-out". Doesn't mean she's not a special player.

Anonymous said...

Not the OP, but I have seen all these kids play multiple times. They have all had spells in YNT camps. The PF striker is a decent athlete, with size and a good enough soccer player to do well in ECNL/GDA especially against less athletic, poorly organized teams. I dont think she has big upside at the next level unless she gets a lot better on the ball.

The PF mids, including the one back form China are all decent, but you would get a very different picture of them if they were in a competitive game. The more creative one seems to have to much falir for the USSF and the one back form China, unlike the striker, seems to fit this new USSF trend of selecting kids who are all around good at most things but not exceptional at anything.The striker suffers from the backlash vs kids who the USSF think are too "athletic" whatever that means.

If you look at College coaches ( and i dont know if these kids have pre-existing ties to the schools the chose ) the commitments they have are telling. The ST is a prototypical UNC player and the rest are comitted to decent soccer schools, but not blue chip ones. The guys who get paid to get it right are usually pretty good at getting the best players.

The WC player , as stated above, fits this new positive discrimination towards mediocre athletes who the USSF think are clever players. In ECNL/GDA games , they often look pretty mediocre becasue they are not physical enough to make plays in isolation. She is a decent player, but not a game changer. I will be interested to see how she performs in College against the very best teams. She , for some reason, seems to have golden status with the USSF, no idea why.

Anonymous said...

1123 I think he sounds like an ECNL thumper. DA sucks because some of the teams suck. Only good teams used to be ECNL teams. My kid was smart and stayed in the ECNL.

I don't follow you. First you say you can spot a player who doesn't belong right away and then you say did you watch more than 90 minutes? what point are you making?

Do you think he can tell about this kid or not after watching a game or fraction of a game.

Anonymous said...

1150
The Blue Chip soccer schools are some of the earliest at the early recruiting table. They seem to largely select the u14/15 YNT players who seem themselves to carry a blue chip label without having had to prove very much. When you say the college coaches are paid to get it right? I think perhaps while your statement is correct I would argue they don't always get it right. I think that they are less often getting it right now, may be a reason as to why there is a move toward parity in the college game. The Blue chips are "forced" into selecting kids way too early for there to be any credit given to them on their insights. Many of these youth wunderkinds do not grow or develop as anticipated and further it appears you may also question the selectors choices as to whom to elevate. Remember Summer Greene? Anika Rodriguez? How are they doing now?

The PF striker is one of the most athletic players that I have ever seen. I think that will translate very well to college and she will quite possibly advance from there.

The PF China kid I agree good all around, but not particularly notable in any category. We will see if she can elevate her team in college. If they play to her feet she may help them move forward. The other midfielder, you say shows too much flair (sic) for the USSF. Maybe sad if true. I think we could use some flair at the national level.

There are several other R1 kids who have national level talent. Not all in the DA. In fact the most successful kids may be in the ECNL in this area.

McLean and Bethesda pop to mind. I will play the guessing game, my guess is the OP has a kid at one of these programs.

Anonymous said...

9:03 & 9:38 - what are you talking about? It was a good game. WS kept trying to get back into the game. PF is just a really good team front to back. Looks like PDA played VDA to a 1-0 game. PF won 10-0. Their gal that went to China has yet to even play a DA game.

Anonymous said...

12:44 - i disagree with your statement about some of the PF kids being able to score. PF was just that good. You know they practice against each other, right. So that keeper and certain defenders gets to practice against that high flying line up and vice versa. Their trainings are really good as a result. It makes all of them better.
THIS is where the GDA is showing how it works; in the development process. And PF has been doing as required as far as US soccer and meeting the % time requirements.

Anonymous said...

My2c, the ONLY real difference in the PF line up is adding an athletic kid who can score to this age group. Neither group was high flying in the ECNL. Good teams, but nowhere near elite WITH the majority of these kids you are now elevating in status,

The striker is athletic, but there are other equivalent athletes around. Maybe you have not seen them yet. The USSF tend to discount them pretty quickly. Just look at the strikers on the U17 team on up.

Anonymous said...

1227 UNC recruit athletes. They run them a lot and Very few emerge as better all around players. The player you mention has a very similar profile to BA from MatchFit/McDonough

Anonymous said...

11:50 i get what you are saying about the lack of blue chip schools picked by some kids, but that doesn't mean blue chip schools didn't come courting. It means they didn't pick them.

My daughter has been committed since summer going into jr. year and didn't pick a blue chip school although she could have. She still gets interest from schools which some would perceive as better re soccer hoping she will change her mind.

She doesn't go for the top dog; she picks the cinderella squad. The one she knows she will be valued and can contribute to their success. That's how she picked her high school, that's how she picked her club team, that's how she picked her college. Me, I was saddened she didn't go P-5, but she knows what she is doing.

Anonymous said...

1:03 - you don't understand how club teams work I guess. Their job is to get kids recruited. So, they aren't getting recruited sitting on the bench - player 1 or player 22 on the roster. You gotta play them. And, unlike some other ECNL teams, when in ECNL, they did.

Anonymous said...

1:03 - yes, she is a key new component. Sometimes that is all it takes. Some teams are missing just one player to make it work. Happens in all sports. I think it's called timing.

Anonymous said...

Oh and adding to above, not just athleticism, but having high soccer iq is key; knowing where to be.

When you add another kid on the field that has it, well, it makes it that much easier for the others that have it and appreciate another player with it.

Anonymous said...

Don't get me wrong, there are still some kids that don't have it in GDA some on my kid's team.
Very frustrating because at this level they are supposed to have it. But the kids that do and working with others as well, it's very nice soccer.

Anonymous said...

I agree. Big assumption that they didn't get blue chip offers. It could be money. The Blue Chips don't usually offer as big scholarships as the next tier. Some parents might not want to make up the difference. Some kids want to go in and play and make a difference right from the start. I mean at some of the blue chips, kids who have extensive YNT camps and would be considered blue chips themselves, sometimes barely play in their first year. It's a big leap to assume you know much of the recruiting details of any player other than your own child. Yes I am a little defensive since my kid picked her school based on academic fit and not soccer although she did help us defray the cost. I know some of the blue chips are super strong academically not saying otherwise-

I just looked up both of the kids you mentioned on top drawer since I am bored this Monday during lunch. One of them in her commitment article says she's a legacy at the school she picked. The other one committed in ninth grade as a blue chip YNT player herself and I think it a stretch to not believe she got other Blue Chip offers. Not saying they got offers at Duke or UVA, but they might have.

Anonymous said...

132 All it takes to do what? I dont really care about team performance becasue its somewhat random. Clubs are largely a function of the players who live close by. My point is the addition of one player is causing people on this forum to, in my opinion, overrate individuals. All thats happened is the team had gotten stronger by one significant add, and the competition has gotten markedly worse by several subtractions.

125 . No idea what you are talking about.

138 Not sure how you asses soccer IQ when watching mismatched teams? Its not hard to play when the other team does not offer much in return

Anonymous said...

And the other thing I noticed was that all or nearly all of the IMG top 25 teams are DA teams. Seems good old TDS is now all about the DA and has left the ECNL in the dust. I think TDS is full of it actually, but thought that shift of the spot light was interesting. Oh and they have PF listed as number 2 above PDA. That Striker apparently is making a huge impact

Anonymous said...

1:48 yep. and some just don't send in recruiting articles to Top Drawer when asked to do so. They don't want to upset or anger the others very good/high level school's that were courting or interested. You never know what the future holds.

Anonymous said...

1:55 - i assume, then, that TDS is getting it's info from US Soccer. It's not just that striker, it's the other complimentary players, too; front to back. Don't let the lack of TDS or TDS stars fool you. Some of the kids are late bloomers not on the TDS radar at 12-14 when TDS cares.

Anonymous said...

you can still assess soccer iq even if teams mismatched. in fact that is when some teams could play less then they are capable of playing. very common.

Anonymous said...

i agree with 2:08. you can still see kids not doing what they should be doing as far as soccer iq in all games.

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