Tuesday, January 27, 2015

U13G / U13 Girls Youth Soccer

U13G  / U13 Girls youth soccer seems to offer the most teams and the widest diversity of talent.

Where these players will end up is anyone guess.

Welcome to the ride.

4,200 comments:

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Anonymous said...

"So if GS is for real then so is Super Y."

Both are actually things but both are not top level. You showed Rage's GS games but why didnt you not post what tier they played in? Always played in 2nd or 3rd tier. Only 6 teams in Super Y and the 3rd place team had a 500 record, so that league was really no good. The 2nd place team, LI Rough Riders is a summer select team.

Anonymous said...

Agree with the last post. Rage is not that good. They don't face tough competition in tournaments playing lower divisions and in their Pags league where they were in D1 they didn't do well.

Anonymous said...

Agree with the last post. Rage is not that good. They don't face tough competition in tournaments playing lower divisions and in their Pags league where they were in D1 they didn't do well.

Anonymous said...

Rage not that good?

PAE #2 per GS
PAGS D1 5th out of 11 teams.

Champions of Bethesda 3rd Flight out of 6 with NJCSA, Classics, NJ Crush & ISA.

Finalist of WAGS 2nd Flight out of 5 with YMS, Classics, Maryland ECNL, LVU& CASL.

Did Not Place at Spirit 2nd Flight out of 6 with Classics, YMS, LVU, ISA, FC Bucks ECNL, JPS

So how exactly do they play lower levels? All I'm saying is there is a level for every child and like it or not there will be 6 teams that can call themselves a National Champion.
Rage will be the first with the opportunity - don't be jealous. It is what it is. Every team had an opportunity to play in the league just like every team in NJ could have played in the NCS - you can only play who shows up and where the tournament people put you.

Anonymous said...

"So how exactly do they play lower levels?"

You just stated what tiers they played and not a one was the top tier. So I think you answered your own question. Seriously 5th in PAGS 1 is good? They were 500 in PAGS 1. PAGS 1 was not that good this yr.

GOTSOCCER is not a ranking system. Please stop using it as one.

Anonymous said...

"GOTSOCCER is not a ranking system. Please stop using it as one."

This might be the most intelligent thing I've ever seen on this board.

GOTSOCCER is merely a points collection system. Big difference from a ranking system.

Anonymous said...

You do realize in order to get to those lists you have to click on a button marked "Rankings" right? And then you see

Nations RANK 6
Regional RANK 2
New Jersey RANK 1

Far from perfect but at least it's not biased. Everyone knows the rules. Just because you don't like where your team is ranked...go win a tournament or two and stop trying to belittle those who do.

Anonymous said...

Well if my kids team played in the lower brackets against inferior competition then they would be ranked much higher.
Since they play in the top brackets and against top competition they tend to lose games.
I dont care where the team is ranked, I dont like people who look solely at the ranking. Take off the blinders.

Anonymous said...

No need for that last sentence, 9:28.

Anonymous said...

I hope all the NE teams win everything. It makes every team from the NE look better. So Good luck Rage ,Patriot FC and LI Rough Riders.
It was great Wildcats were #1 for a little. It made everyone else in the nation look at the NE and say wow must be good teams up there.

Anonymous said...

Not biased??? They take certain league points for 2nd and third place for both Fall and Spring. How is that not biased to that league??

Anonymous said...

Yeah but if you take off the 5700 points Wildcats are showing in EDP for the fall of 2014 before the season (while still counting Fall 2013) is over and they drop to over 30th in Nation.

Still not bad but more accurate.

Anonymous said...

9:59 your slip is showing. Your obsession with Wildcats is not healthy.
They have earned their points(8 wins 2 ties 0 losses in EDP Central in spring-7-0-0 in EDP this fall-already clinched 1st with 1 game to go).
Stop and consider how much of your time is spent stalking, looking up and then commenting on(attacking) Wildcats points, rankings, results, style of play, coach, parents,etc.
Now look in the mirror and ask yourself if this is a healthy use of your time in pursuit of a team your daughter is not even playing for.
Good luck in rehab.
Remember mental illness is a disease.
It is not your fault.
We are all rooting for your full recovery!

Anonymous said...

include 8:49 am in last post as well.
It applies to him if he is not the same poster.

Anonymous said...

I am 8:49.

For the record, I am pro-Wildcats. Became a fan after finally seeing them play at Bethesda.

And GOTSOCCER is not a ranking system. It is a points accumulation system. Maybe I could get on board with GS if they posted their rankings based on pts/game or something that does not reward teams for entering so many tournaments.

Wildcats have the most GS points in NJ. But this is not why they are #1 in NJ. They are #1 in NJ because they are state champs.

Anonymous said...

Nobody attacking. Just pointing out the extreme flaw in the system you are using to rank. The only teams beaten for their points are STA and Crew once. How does that add up if you REALLY look at it objectively..... Think that is the point. Great for the girls but this is more about the ranking system you are hanging on to. Really, how does that make any logical sense? Take a breathe and reply rationally. Without "working the GS system", let me know how you see that this all makes sense.....

Anonymous said...

Wait a second - how did we get to Wildcats from Rage/Super Y??

I used GS to show that they are successful as they are ranked #2 behind PL. As far as just playing tournaments to accumulate points that's just an ignorant statement. Rage won the 2014 Taylor Seitzinger Flash Tournament and received ZERO points because as you say they beat no one.

All they can do is apply to tournaments where they are flighted is out of their control

Not exactly easy Tournaments they played in.

Jefferson - Finalist
Spirit
WAGS - Finalist
Bethesda - Champion

They received 2,500 points from Super Y & Epic and in Total 8 events in the last 12 months.

Anonymous said...

I am starting to understand the hate now. Some posters wish their kid's team played in these tournaments

Jefferson,
WAGS.
Spirit,
Bethesda,
Delco

The top teams go to these tournaments to play top teams not to earn GS points. Just like they go to FC Stars and PDA tournaments.

To call a team out because they didn't make the top flight at a tournament is ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

Just showing how both are "ranked" higher because of flaw with GS.....

Anonymous said...

Winning is not a flaw.

Not playing or only playing in a handful you think are worthy is a flaw.

Anonymous said...

No one has said that the tournaments Wildcats entered are a flaw. Quite impressive. However, the timing of EDP points is flawed and skews the rankings of EDP teams. Even you can't dispute that.

Anonymous said...

8:49 here again.

My kid's team played in the top flight of all of those tournaments, 11:11. Did pretty well, winning one and making semis is some others.

I don't hate GS. I just recognize it's flaws. It's a point accumulation system. Play more games, you get more points. Simple as that. Doesn't make you the best to have the most points.

Anonymous said...

I agree about the EDP point awards being flawed, and my kid is on a team that is "ranked" much higher than it should be because of those points.

Anonymous said...

Defensive...... Not really an answer. And not trying to be a smart ass. Two teams have given you your points. You do not find that as a flaw??

Anonymous said...

Flash tourney is Rage's Tourney. They have to play in it.

Anonymous said...

Boca has broken into top 10 on GS, just interesting after all the talk on them on here. Yes, used to play for Boca and know club well.

Anonymous said...

The points are a great business for all involved. Coaches use this to recruit and keep players. Tournaments use points to sell more teams to the event. And parents love to say to others how good their kid is based upon GS points and rankings. But the reality is that the system is flawed and does not promote player development or benefit. Wildcats are the best soccer marketed business in NJ and they are genius at using points. Others like MF-NJX have become a shadow of their former selves based upon points. But is this a reflection of their team and ability or their leadrship choosing one event over another. Are there really 6 teams between Wildcats and NJX-MF? Is Wildcats better than NJX-MF?

This is just more of the dummification of youth soccer lead by and supported by businesses, parents and coaches.

Anonymous said...

Pretty good GS conversation. Good way to end it, 11:24.

Time once again for my "who would beat who" rankings. I've included some VA and MD teams this time:

1. FC Virginia
2. Penn Legacy
3. PDA Pre-ECNL
4. East Meadow Pre-ECNL
5. FC Stars of Mass Pre-ECNL
6. Penn Fusion Pre-ECNL
7. Wildcats
8. Match Fit Pre-ECNL
9. BRYC
10. Boston Breakers Pre-ECNL
11. YMS
12. Maryland FC
13. PDA NPL South
14. Match Fit NPL
15. Connecticut FC Pre-ECNL
16. World Class Pre-ECNL
17. FSA Pre-ECNL
18. PWSI
19. Albertson Pre-ECNL
20. Penn Fusion NPL
21. 1776
22. Pipeline

Never seen:
PDA NPL North
Match Fit Black
NYSC
PA Classics
Athletico

Anonymous said...

The number 9 team on your list and below would be 2nd Flight at tournaments that only put 8 teams in their top flight. Does that make them as bad as Rage?

Didn't know that - So they played their own tournament because they had to right. So this should have been some easy points to accumulate, wait they got zero points for it. SO HOW exactly does a team accumulate 15,000 points to move up the charts if you win tournaments and get zero points? SO if they played in 5 tournaments like their own they would still have zero points. So they apply to the tournaments where the good teams go, they play in the flight they are put in and they continue to WIN. But they are a lesser team because they play in Super Y?

Anonymous said...

I haven't seen Rage play in about 18 months...back when they were losing to the likes of 1776 and LVU. They'd be #23 on this list.

Anonymous said...

12:15 Yeah back then 1776 was the best team in PA

Since then 1776 can't win outside of PA while Rage has proven they can.

1776 at Spirit, Discovery & Bethesda
W1, T3, L5, GF5, GA11

Rage Spirit, WAGS & Bethesda
W7, T3, L2, GF20, GA9

Anonymous said...

Same brackets, 12:43? If not, then you are not comparing apples to apples.

The two teams' records in PAGS would be apples to apples.

W-L-T
1776 5-1-2 Goal diff 17
Rage 4-4-0 Goal diff 3

Anonymous said...

Ouch...

In the same 2 tourneys Rage and 1776 played in.

Spirit - 1776 top tier
Rage 2nd tier

Bethesda - 1776 2nd tier
rage 3rd tier

Now if tourneys go by Gotsoccer Will Rage will get put in top brackets for up coming tourneys?1776 will be dropped to lower brackets.

Anonymous said...

No soccer parents that I have ever met are interested in talking about got soccer points and rankings and I have been through this with two soccer crazy kids and multiple teams. Only place I have ever seen this discussed in here and there on a forum.

Anonymous said...

Exactly right, GS is a points calculation system. Not a means to determine better teams.

December 2, 2014 at 9:28 AM- Take Wildcats for instance, they are #1 in Nj and top team in country? They have entered 3 big tournaments and only won 1 game out of 9 or 10 played. Never made the Finals.

Obviously a great team would WIN more games. Wildcats good defensive team that is top 5 in the State. Will finish first in their Fall EDP division for the first time (as per GS).

GS a good tool to look at a teams collection of recent Tournaments and some League games (depending on the league they play in)

Anonymous said...

12:57 of course not. As I said "outside" PA

I'm confused - I thought I read on here that Maryland United Pre-ECNL was a top team - they also happened to be in the same flight as Rage.

Yes 1776 was in a higher bracket and proved they didn't belong 1 win in 9 games. While Rage was one flight lower winning 7 out of 12 with a +11 proving they should have been higher.

All you can do is show up and play the results will tell us if they belong in the flight or not.

Anonymous said...

1:12, not true, we as a group do occasionally discuss GS. Mostly, its other parents asking me the ranking of the team, but I always preface my response with its not a perfect system, and points/rankings don’t win games, the girls do. Still its nice to know that all the money they are spending is keeping them competitive with some of the best teams in the area.

Anonymous said...

1:12 you are wrong my friend.
Gotsoccer points are used to flight and to accept teams in competitive tourneys and therefore are extremely important next year and the year after at U14-U15
for exposure to college coaches.

Anonymous said...

1:18 why bring up Wildcats, you fail to mention one thing about the Wildcats, 9 games played with 1 win and a -2 GD say what you will but that proves they belong in the top flights not like 1776 in my last example who have proven they are flighted to high.

Anonymous said...

11:24am and 1:18pm please see 10:36am.
also please look up the word redundant in the dictionary.
They will soon be using your picture as
a synonym in the 2015 Thesauras.

Anonymous said...

1:19 - Do you think that because of GotSoccer Rage will be put in the top bracket at an upcoming tourney? Lets say Jeff Cup, is this the 1st top tourney of the new year?

If put there do you believe they will be able to hang with those teams? If you look at last yrs Jeff cup some of teams that could be in top flight would be below:
PDA
FCV
Cincy
Wildcats
Crew Jr.s
Penn Legacy
MD United
BRYC
Penn Fusion
Boston

Anonymous said...

If MF/njx is a mere shell of its self, now? Wait til the spring, when their better players are playing with the ecnl team. Which has already started this off season. Hurry openings are available on me npl. Just right a check for $2500 and new uniforms $250 for Nike premier club. Incidentals $1500 for your travel . $400 for coaches travel hotel and bar tab.

Anonymous said...

1:28 No I don't think they can but I also think they have earned a shot at 2nd or 3rd flight. Jefferson puts 8 in top flight. Top 16 or top 24 why not.

Anonymous said...

Ok.. Agreed on Rage. They have been playing in the 2nd and 3rd tiers at some big tourneys. So why not Jeff Cup? I looked and I see last yr they were in the 4th tier at 8v8. Still played 8v8 like all the other PA teams. So maybe they picked up some better girls moving to the 11v11 field. Probably not a lot of choices for girls over there, at least not like NJ.
Could anyone from Rage decide to go to CFC , PF or Bucks to make those teams stronger?

Anonymous said...

1776 is an interesting one to me. As previously posted they are doing well in PA and not so good outside PA. wasn't this team called Nether who is affiliated with CFC?

So what's better for the top kids on on 1776 to dominate PA and play second fiddle to PL and lay an egg when they go outside PA those top flights will start to disappear soon if they continue not winning. They can supplement this with ODP

or would it be better for the players on this teams to merge with CFC Delco pre-ECNL and NPL.

or they stay where they are leave PAGS and play in region1 Champions league or EDP?

Anonymous said...

1:28 the sad thing is you list 10 teams. If Jefferson holds true with top flight of 8 - 2 of your teams play 2nd flight.

Reading some posts - How in the world is that a bad thing if they are not in top flight?

Anonymous said...

I just listed 10 teams that maybe in the top flight. I have no idea who applied or who will apply.
We said being 2nd flight at Jeff Cup for Rage is good.
I was asking if he thought Rage deserved to be top flight and if they could hang with those teams?
That's all.

Anonymous said...

2:26 I understand. I was just saying you listed 10 good teams but only 8 of those would be given top flight does that make the 2nd flight a bad thing? like some posters were trying to say about Rage playing in 2nd and 3rd flights.

All those teams deserve top flight but only 8 make it because of the selection process not because they are a bad team.

All of this because I said the USL Super Y finals will crown our Age group's 1st national Champion this weekend.

Anonymous said...

1:26 I bring up the Wildcats because they tell the world they are #1 in NJ and #1 in the country yet only win 1 game at ALL U13 tournaments they have entered, including a 3-1 loss to a. NJ team.

GS calculates points, great teams win games. They have never won anything where PDA or MF/NJX were grouped in with them.

Wildcats are tops in that second tier of teams, but history shows they are second tier.

Anonymous said...

3:28 and this is where we disagree. I don't think there is a great team at u13. This Country is very big with lots of kids playing this beautiful sport. Some teams are stronger than others and these teams are put together in top flights (some times the selectors get it wrong). I posted many Wildcat posts to defend their accomplishments from the people that try to make them look ordinary. Just like I did with Rage today.

You can think what you want but I see the NJ NCS Champs representing NJ at the Regionals in WV. I see a team that played in almost every big tournament this past year. Did yours? Yes, I see a team that Won only 1 game in 9 played, but they only lost 2 with a GD of -2. Yes this is not the Pre-ECNL flight of NPL but you cannot say they don't belong in the top flights.

Yes they play to win like everyone else, but they are going against some of the tougher teams in Region in those 9 games. I say they did great and the players on those teams were tested in all those games.

3:28 How many times have they played head 2 head? Don't answer I broke it down for you below.

PDA AJAX (W2, L2, T2, GF7, GA7)
8/24/2014 1-3
6/1/2014 2-0
4/12/2014 1-1
9/15/2013 1-1
8/25/2013 1-0
10/13/2012 1-2

PDA DRAGONS (W1, T0, L0, GF1, GA0)
6/15/2014 1-0

PDA STORM (W1, T0, L1, GF3, GA2)
4/6/2014 2-0
10/26/2013 1-2

NJX CELTIC (W0, L1, T3, GF5, GA6)
6/9/2014 0-0
11/17/2013 2-2
9/7/2013 2-2
3/17/2013 1-2

So vs PDA and MF they are
W4, T5, L4, GF16, GA15

yes a lot has changed over the years.
NJ Wildcats State Champs Playing in top flights and holding their own.

Can you leave this team alone now.

Anonymous said...

3:28.... Tell us all what teams are in the top tier of NJ

Anonymous said...


WILDCATS
MF ECNL
PDA ECNL
MF NPL
STA
PDA IMPACT
PDA NPL
CRUSH
NJCSA
TSF

Anonymous said...



PDA AJAX not IMPACT

Anonymous said...

I took your list and looked at games played vs NJ only

Teams that never lost to a NJ team
MF ECNL
MF NPL
PDA NORTH
PDA ECNL

1 LOSS
NJ WILDCATS
NJCSA ELITE

LOST 2
MEDFORD
NJ CRUSH
PDA SOUTH
STA
TSF

LOST 4
NJCSA GALAXY

Anonymous said...

3:56- I appreciate your time and effort to capture all that information. I find it useless to go back that far to compare teams NOW.

Since you seem to have their past well documented can you tell me a time when they won a tournament or their division when PDA and NJX were with them?

I see they played PDA Ajax this year and lost.

Anonymous said...

The fact that in the 2 years or so that I've been reading this blog nobody has been able to craft an indisputable argument why their own team is the best shows us all how close these teams are, and how you're all just wasting time. Congratulations. You all have talented daughters. Why are you so caught up in this? And why are you so offended when someone disagrees with you?

You know what they say about opinions, and there are a lot of them on here.

Move on.

Anonymous said...

wildcats finished ahead of both ajax and matchfit npl in last springs edp league and beat pda storm head to head in league play that season.
wildcats finished 2nd at 8w 0 losses 2T while pda Storm finished 9w 1loss 0ties.
matchfit npl and ajax finished down the table from both.
that was the last season the played together in the same league.
so the answer is the most recent (last spring) record shows they did very well indeed vs the matchfit and pda teams.cats also beat pda dragons 1-0 in june at matchfit tourney the only time they played them.

Anonymous said...

4:54 - Hmmm interesting question.

Both are from NJ right?

Refresh my memory who's the State Champ?

and Since you seem to know a lot about PDA and MF why didn't they play NJYSA NCS?

OH NPL.

Right it's US Club.

Didn't stop STA and NJ Crush, but it did stop PDA and MF.

Why is that?

Let's see if the mighty decide to play NJ Cup for a trip to nationals if they are all about national Titles. I see NJ Wildcats and MF NPL are going for it.

Anonymous said...

teams are changing so fast now.

It is possible that wildcats get better in the Spring and go up another level. they may also fall back.

Other teams will fall back or move as well.

Time to take u111 and u12 off the table.

Teams have already changed. And some teams will be significantly stronger in the Spring.

Lets just stick to u13 from now on and go from there.

it keeps a lll arguments in the here and now.


Basrd on this- You have to say Wildcats have improved.

but I am sure so have Match fit and PDA.


These 3 team are tops in NJ.


I will have to give the nod to the ECNl teams because they have beaten top regional competition within their league.

A team like wildcats have beaten Calvert in league play but have not had a consistent body of wins in top regional competition.


Thats just my opinion.


I don't think either one of the ECNL will play the wildcats unless they play them in a scrimmage or in a tournament.


I Will be curious to see if wildcats-are in top bracket of PDA tournament with all the other top teams in the country.


Perhaps they will get a chantce to play these local teams in this venue.






Anonymous said...

5:46 I agree - I posted the GS history to show they were always close. Just u13 and to even things out PRE-ECNL/NPL records vs top 7 teams only took out the bottom 4 from each


NJ Wildcats

EDP Fall - W7, T0, L0, GF15, GA1
Bethesda - W1, T1, L1, GF2, GA2
WAGS - W0, T3, L0, GF1, GA1

GP13, W8, T4, L1, GF18, GA4

---------------------------------

PDA STORM

Pre-ECNL vs Top7 W4, T2, GF9 GA7
Eclipse - W3, L1, GF12, GA2
EDP Cup - W1, T2, L1, GF6, GA6

GP13, W8, T4, L2, GF27, GA15

---------------------------------

PDA AJAX

NPL vs Top7 - W5, L2, GF13, GA5
FC Stars - W1, L2, GF7, GA4
Spirit - W2, L1, GF6, GA3

GP13, W8, L5, GF26, GA12

---------------------------------

PDA DRAGONS

NPL vs Top7 - W5,T2, GF3, GA2
Parsippany - W4, GF13, GA2
STA -W2, L1, GF5, GA1

GP14, W11, T2, L1, GF36, GA12

-----------------------------------

MF NPL

NPL vs Top7 - W4, T3, GF20, GA3
Bethesda - W1, L1, T1, GF4, GA1
Fc Stars - W1, L1, T1, GF3, GA3

GP13, W6, T5, L2, GF27, GA7

---------------------------------

MF ECNL

NPL vs Top7 - W3, L2, T2 GF10, GA8
Bethesda - W1, T1,L1, GF2, GA3
EDP Open - TBD

GP10, W4, T3, L3, GF12, GA11

Anonymous said...

I love ECNL - but as of today NJ Wildcats are State Champs and have not been blown up in any games. While I like STORM and MF ECNL - NJ Wildcats have to be number 1 just by their body of work.

State Champ
League Champ
Top Flight in Top Tournaments

Anonymous said...

The rationalization is still so comical.....
State champ- beat Sta
League champ- beat calvert
Top tourneys- because of the above and not many points came out of those.
Call it as it is. Good team. Not even close to above the others on body of work. Ecnl alone this year is tougher "body of work".....

Anonymous said...

6: 34

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

But i tried to do away with titles and just looked at top regional competition for u13 only.

head to head in any form of competition be it tournament or leagues.


People can argue about state cup depth

one can argue that all these teams play in top tournaments( its just a matter of how many)

and one can argue that one of the ECNL teams are tops in there league as well

But it is hard to argue about head to head wins against top regional teams.


I can't think of a better way of comparing teams in the u13 age group then competition against their peers.

Unless of course the two teams go head to head.

Again just my opinion




























Anonymous said...

7:15 I'm just old school the only people saying state cup wasn't deep are the people who's kid didn't play. Nothing more.

State Cup will always be the State Cup just like it was last year. It's an Open Tournament where every team in the state can play as long as you have the cards.

6:54 No rationalization -State Cup beat the teams that played. Does it bother you that much that your kid didn't play and couldn't defend her title? League Champ beat Calvert which PDA Storm couldn't fact. Again the only one talking points is you - and that's because your kid's team stays at home. You got to be in it to win it. You can't win if you don't play.

That's all I've been saying - a good team that can call themselves State Champ and is going for the double - something no NJ team ever did at this AGE. EM has done it in NYE.

Dude, I love ECNL - and I've said it was the best league for a very long time. I've even been called a PDA shill for it and more recently an EM parent.No one is questioning ECNL or at least I'm not.

NJ Champ that is undefeated in league play and 2 wins came against a team that beat and another that tied the top dog in the pre-ECNL flight.

And this is comical :)

or is it reality.

I bet you NJ Wildcats go to Jefferson to play other top teams including FCV, Will Storm and MF ECNL looking at GS unless they apply later they are missing out. What's up with that?

Anonymous said...

different poster here.

You do realize the landscape of State cup has changed starting at u13-u17.

A large amount of teams are electing not to enter

further to the point


My understanding is that the u14 NJ state cup winner just got beat 6-0 in a tournament against ecnl teams and beat again 3-0 against a NJ team.


They are ranked number 1 in the State by GS.

hows that for your GS rankings


So far me a title is as good as the teams that have entered. It is top competition that people look at and not just titles but who those games were won against.


This is not to say that wildcats are not a top team but i would not declare any state cup winner best in the state or region without looking at the competition that they played against.

unfortunately changing landscape is doing that for all ages it is not isolated to u13's




Anonymous said...

7:57 The ECNL teams are the strongest teams - I will defend that and not change my stance on that.

STATE Cups are STATE Cups, I'm a Euro and that's the only chance a lower level team gets to shock the world.

The lower level teams will never play top flight and will never travel more than 2 hours.

The only chance they get to see an elite team or play against them is at the state cup and if they shock the world that doesn't mean they are better -they were just better that day. There is nothing better to play a lower level team and to hear the noise their parents make in support and then again there is nothing worse than feeling you have to stop cheering because your kid's team has just scored double digits

NJ Wildcats are a good team and happen to win State Cup this fall. The only people that have a problem with this is people that stayed at home with their kid and frequents blogs because their kid is great and so is their team.

They are State Cup champs. I would be happy if my kid's team won because she would have as mile from ear to ear not because of the title or the GS points.

But that's who I am.

Anonymous said...

8;18

you'll get no argument from me

Anonymous said...

AND I am also this guy

U13G EDP OPEN CUP

2nd Round
------------------------
3 TSF ACADEMY 01/02G
0 NJCSA ELITE
-------------------------
4 BEACHSIDE SC CT BEACHSIDE
0 PISCATAWAY JAGUARS
-------------------------
0 INTERNATIONAL GIRLS FUTBOL ACADEMY 01-0
1 MATCH FIT ACADEMY FC BLACK NORTH
----------------------------
ALLEYCATS U13 GIRLS ELITE
FC COPA ACADEMY LIMA NPL
----------------------------
MATCH FIT ACADEMY FC ECNL
JERSEY SHORE BOCA JR FC FUSION
----------------------------
NEW JERSEY RUSH HAMILTON WILDCATS 01 GIRLS
bye
----------------------------
3 NJCSA GALAXY
2 PDA SHORE FUSION
----------------------------
CES CALVERT CREW WHIT
MEDFORD SC HURRICANES



3rd Round
---------------------------
TSF ACADEMY 01/02G
BEACHSIDE SC CT BEACHSIDE
---------------------------
MATCH FIT ACADEMY FC BLACK NORTH vs
ALLEYCATS of FC CoPA
---------------------------
MF ECNL or BOCA vs
NEW JERSEY RUSH HAMILTON WILDCATS 01 GIRLS
----------------------------
NJCSA GALAXY vs
CALVERT or MEDFORD (going to president's Cup to represent NJ)

Anonymous said...

My older daughter communicated with a college coach this Fall. My Daughter played for a very good NJ team that is not an ECNL team.

Even though this coach thought highly of my daughter, he basically told her that he needs to see her play vs high level players on an every day basis. She stated she plays for "XXXX", her team does well.we believed she played vs upper level teams just not the top teams. His response quickly was, go join an ECNL team now. He needs to see her play vs the best players, see if she can stand out with those type of players. She was devastated

I spoke to the coach myself, he reiterated the same to me, he also communicated that rarely players that are not playing every year at National Finals will not get the same look as an ECNL team would receive.

Luckily for my girl, she called an ECNL team and signed with them. This coach has attended several practice to date to see her practice. Hope it this works for her.

Point of story, I believed my daughter would have received the same looks as a player from an ECNL club. She was recognized for sure, only problem it was not enough. I will not make same mistake with my 2nd daughter.

NJ Wildcats, Crush, STA, FC Copa, etc can not compare to top programs.

Anonymous said...

Don't question Wildcats or coach will call you a stalker, a sicko, or whatever. C'mon can we stop with that already. Everything can't be an attack from some unknown villain with an agenda. Some people are just offering their opinions.

Anonymous said...

and others are offering a counter nothing more

Anonymous said...

The best place to get seen is ODP regional and national pools.
If you are that good you will make those teams and be well known and widely exposed to the top college coaches.
Otherwise there are many ways to get there.
Probably best way is to identify your top few choices and attend their high school players ID camp on their campus.
You will train and play in games for the schools head coach and assistant coaches and they will get to know you as a player and you will get a feel for the coaches, current players at that program and the school and campus.

Anonymous said...

9:10 - Hope your daughter gets want she wants. Glad to see she spoke to a coach and he was honest with her.

Sounds like the coach said you can be a great player on a Non ECNL team but that doesnt mean anything. He needs to see her compete day in and day out against what he considers the best. I notice you say he has attended several practices, PRACTICES.

8:18 - "STATE Cups are STATE Cups, I'm a Euro and that's the only chance a lower level team gets to shock the world. "

The point everyone is trying to make is that there was no high level teams in the State cup. The lower level teams had no shot to shock the world.

Anonymous said...

Ok- but the 4 teams that everyone expected to be in the semifinals/finals were. So the lower level teams didn't shock even given who was there.

Anonymous said...

A college coach will not want to pass on a player that can help the team win and help coach keep job. If the ECNL costs are out of reach for her family, coach would be unwise to insist on ECNL if she can really help her/his team win.

Anonymous said...

7:11 No the point people are trying to make is that PDA and MF teams didn't play. Are you telling all the other clubs in NJ should build their schedule around these 2 clubs? Wow I thought NJ was strong? Because I read on this board that PDA Storm isn't the same when the top of the rotation doesn't play Calvert loss and STA tie and if you remove 2 Girls from PDA Ajax they are a shell. Dragons get no respect and NJX is a shell of itself going by this board which leave MF ECNL. So if these 5 teams don't play a State Cup is not a state Cup. Is this what you are saying?

Because if not mistaken every other club sent their teams.

Just to repeat - my question is if PDA and MF doesn't send their teams the NJ State Cup is light because in the entire state of NJ all the high level teams belong to these 2 clubs. is this right? I hope not for NJ - But then again it does explain why no NJ team wins a top flight outside of NJ-since these 2 clubs don't send their teams to all the majors.

So NJ not as strong as you guys like to make it out to be and this is nothing but a PDA/MF board. Okay since I now understand this - I can see why NJ Wildcats are painted the way they are on this board.

Anonymous said...

that whole story was BS.
Nothing but an infomercial for ecnl from PDA or MF.
That college coach is pretty lazy it seems.
Look at all the players at major colleges who didn't play ecnl.
If you only look in one place for your players you will miss out on a lot of players who can help your program.
I doubt this college coach will still have his job if your kid is thinking about going there.

Anonymous said...

8:07 and that usually will happen.

We had Haddonfield (who) and BOCA (they are mentioned on this board) come within a goal of forcing OT to play into the Elite 8.

Then You had SJEB an up and coming team going by this board miss by 1 goal from forcing OT to make the Final 4.

And let's not for get last year's close games.

1 PLAYERS DEVELOPMENT ACADEMY STORM
0 HADDONFIELD SC LIGHTNING

1 PLAYERS DEVELOPMENT ACADEMY AJAX
2 JERSEY PREMIER SOCCER FLASH

0 MARLTON SC STORM
1 TSF ACADEMY 01/02 TSF ACADEMY

Anonymous said...

My point wasn't they will shock the world. But they would never get the opportunity to play vs high level teams if not in state cup.

I get what you guys are saying and I will drop this.

Not exactly sure how this benefits soccer to grow the sport. But I guess that's why we pay the big money - they are the pros and know what's best for the sport.

Anonymous said...

9:10

All those club programs mentioned have girls playing D 1, including on the most elite of college teams. Look over the college page of ecnl clubs you will find many girls DO NOT go to D 1 schools as well. Some ecnl's are only about 50%. If thats your goal for your daughter, thats great, but know it is nowhere near a sure thing just because you played ecnl. Look at college profiles, girls who participated in ODP alone far outnumber those who played for an ecnl club alone. And as mentioned by 10:43, ID camps where the girls get to match up against current players are becoming the preferable way for these coaches to really evaluate players as they(the coaches) are in control of what drills they run, positions in scrimmages etc. I also have an older daughter and her team going through the process right now. Not saying that story isn't true, it just strikes me as odd because thats not what I'm seeing and hearing from college coaches.

Of coarse ecnl, ODP, and ID camps combined would be your best bet, but to many that's not an option. If the kid has talent, she'll find her way into a good college program. But don't expect you won't have to do some legwork yourself.

Anonymous said...

8:47 here

8:49 you are not being fair we have 2 ECNL teams in NJ, 3 in PA and 2 in NYE if they all roster 20 players that's 140 players vs how many not on ECNL teams in the 3 states.

ECNL gives the kids a great opportunity -they still have to make the best of it but it does open doors and that's all that you ask.

Anonymous said...

8:49 - "If thats your goal for your daughter"

This is the biggest problem. Should not be a parents goal to get your kid to play D1, it has to be what the kid wants. Parents should only be there to direct them.

Of course, every team has players that have gone onto play D1 soccer.

Anonymous said...

When 5 of the top 7 teams in NJ don't play in the SC of course you will have some who say it wasn't a deep tournament.

Anonymous said...

BRAVO 9:14!!!! Well said!!!

9:21 yeah I can see that,but I'm willing to bet the only people posting it wasn't deep are from those 5 teams that didn't participate why else would you take away from 12/13 year old player's accomplishment. Do you actually think they care who didn't play (or know if their parents didn't tell them)-all they know is they played in State Cup - no adult politics.

Anonymous said...

8:49

As I try to figure out whether to bring my daughter to an ECNL team next year, or keep her on her high level team and play ODP.

I see articles like this and I must admit its a pretty powerful commentary on why you have a better chance in the ECNL than any other avenue.

Can you please present your data as I have not seen anything that gives me a reason to keep her where she is if she can compete and start on an ECNL team.

Not a defector yet but getting close.

http://eliteclubsnationalleague.com/home/850008.html

Anonymous said...

Been through this with my older daughter as well. Just being on a ecnl or npl is not going to do anything for you. If you are a bench player you will not be seen when you need to be seen. Do you really think you coach is going to play you because a scout my be there. He is there to get his starters as many looks as possible. Go ask any bench players parents yourselves, just being on the team is not good enough. Everyone has their role on the team. The starters will be seen , bench players are funding the majority of the team and their parents are happy that their kid is on the team. Bottom line is what makes you kid happy. If you are a bench player and want to be seen find yourself a decent showcase team and email all the coaches that are supposed to be at the tournament. Why waste the time or money sitting on the bench and might be seen in the 6 or 7 minutes you get.

Anonymous said...

9:48 It's hard to argue your point. If a kid is playing 6 to 7 minutes and has nothing but garbage played to her in those minutes because kid's can't be perfect all the time - your kid will need more minutes for sure to showcase their talents.

However, the training and the competitive environment will help them at the ID camps for sure. So while your point is valid they still have a chance plus they get to put down that team name on the questionnaire that more and more schools are looking for these days.

Anonymous said...

The other thing to keep in mind, 9:47, is that the ECNL has only been around since 2009. The current college freshman and sophomores were U13s and U14s back in 2009, when the ECNL was brand new and had not really hit its stride yet. Just imagine how the numbers will get skewed further toward the ECNL over the next five years.

Anonymous said...

9:47 unless you live in PA or on the Island your kid will need to be pretty good if not recruited. Not saying your kid isn't but she will need to be technical for sure and show potential vs high level players that will not make it easy for your kid to standout.

If you are from PA CFC and FC Bucks have much room for improvement The island is starting to get more difficult

Anonymous said...

I agree 10:07 a young league that has made it's 70 clubs that much stronger.
When you compare those numbers - you are looking at 70 clubs vs over 1 thousand non-ecnl clubs

Anonymous said...

10:02
Have been at both levels. Training is the same, level of players slightly different. Not much of a competitive edge. With regards as putting down on your page that your on the ecnl or npl or PDP team yes that is an advantage. They will contact the coach and once they find out your not starting or they show up at one of your events and your child is not starting, your done. Like lieing on your resume and getting caught

Anonymous said...

Let's put it this way. Most ecnl teams roster 18-22 players, some more. Only 11 can play at a time. If your 16 or 17 off the bench is that better than playing at a top team in top tournaments. My answer is your better off where you can play and be seen. To each his own. MF pda's will always take another $3000. Just saying. If that's small potatoes to you then go for it

Anonymous said...

9:21am try and understand- ANY HIGHLY RANKED TEAM that enters state cup competition does so knowing they are putting themselves into an open state championship competition with no idea who will or will not enter.
There is a blind draw so they have no idea who they will play when they sign up.
As a highly ranked team they sign up knowing as shown by 8:42AM that they will get the best effort from EVERY TEAM they play and they are putting their reputation and credibility as slip and are upset they will be criticized mercilessly for that upset to an unranked team.
Now clearly a highly ranked team whio just skips the competition avoids putting themselves on the line and doesn't give those lower ranked teams in their state a shot at upsetting them. That of course is their choice but don't you see that taking the easy way out by not entering and then belittling the accomplishments of the teams who DID ENTER and DID put themselves, their teams, their clubs and their reputations on the line is very "Weak", very "Small" of you indeed.
And speaks volumes about what your team and your club is about as well.

Anonymous said...

Everyone gets that, 10:41.

Do you understand that winning the state cup without 5 of the top 7 teams playing is less of an accomplishment than if those 5 had also participated?

Anonymous said...

We all know the State Cup in the fall does not give teams flexibility on the schedule. That is why the NPL teams and the ECNL teams did not enter the tournament. Their schedules are set and there is little leeway in moving the league games. In fact their schedules for the spring have already been set. These teams did not avoid the tournament, it did not fit into the schedule.

Anonymous said...

If PDA or MF would enter the State Cup it would be a lose/lose situation for them.
IF they win, well they were suppose to win.
If they lose, then all the bashing starts.

What would these teams get out of playing against teams that the Wildcats beat 6-0? It is better for them to go play friendlies against better competition.

Anonymous said...

Now that's a complete cop out.

Anonymous said...

9:14

At 15-16 you're right. But at 12 very few girls are going to willingly leave a winning team full of their best friends to play on an ecnl team so that 5 yrs from now they have a slightly better chance at playing d-1. That's all the parents doing, and yes, that's a shame.

8:55
Only looking at the a teams college commitments. Most top college programs full of odp players both ecnl and non. Many ecnl girls were recruited to ecnl teams for final couple years. Ecnl taking a lot of credit for girls they didn't produce.

10:07

Can't have it both ways. You point to all these ecnl girls playing in college but when I point to many who are not you rightly say the ecnl wasn't around when many were coming up and hence deserves no credit .

Maybe the ecnl will get better as you say. Ecnl fans are always pointing to what is going to be. Frankly I don't care, by that time our daughters will all be in college. And please tell me one club that is better today than they were pre-ecnl, FC Bucks?, Continental?, even PDA( great as always, but improved due to ecnl?)

Anonymous said...

Roster spots 14 and down are going to change every season. Going to happen this season watch. Will happen this spring season coming. Happens every year.

Anonymous said...

9:14,

10:07 here. No one has ever seriously said that ECNL is the only way to make it to D1. Everyone knows that there are non-ECNL players playing D1.

But what has not been refuted is the idea that playing ECNL gives you a better chance of making it to D1. Support for this idea is found in these two links:

http://eliteclubsnationalleague.com/home/850008.html

http://www.d1soccerrecruiting.com/ecnl-and-the-college-recruiting-process-what-does-the-data-reveal/

No one ever attacks the data in these links. Instead, they attack:

1) The cost of ECNL. But after some discussion it eventually comes out that the high level non-ECNL teams are paying about the same.

2) But there are non-ECNL players on current D1 rosters. And there probably always will. No one is debating this! There are only 70 ECNL clubs. The league has only been around for five years. And they are producing the most D1 players than all other leagues combined. How does naming the non-ECNL D1 players refute this? It doesn't. It's just marketing.

3) The roster size of the ECNL clubs. But as we know, some high level non-ECNL teams also roster more than 18.

4) The playing time for bench players at ECNL clubs. This is actually a decent point. I'm of the opinion that I would pull my kid from an ECNL team they were not getting enough minutes. But, to each his own.

The debate over which is better in order to get noticed by college coaches "starter on non-ECNL" vs "ECNL bench player" is a worthy one to have. I don't think we have enough data yet to convince me one way or the other.

5) The last argument that comes up is the "tearing my crying daughter away from her best friends on her non-ECNL team in order to make her play with a bunch of strangers on an ECNL team" argument. Which is not even worthy of a reply. But hey, when arguing the facts fails, always best to go with the emotional argument.

Anonymous said...

10:48AM, 10:48AM and 10:51Am OK it wasn't a good fit for you to enter this year.
so then show some class and stop knocking the tournament and the accomplishments of those who did enter.
You made your decision not to compete for the state championship this year.
No one else thinks it is less of an accomplishment to win it without your team. This attitude along with your redundancy and ignorance is probably why your tam has faded so quickly into a 2nd tier and 2nd flight team under your leadership.

Anonymous said...

10:51 teams Wildcats beat 6-0 or league games vs CFC Delco and FC Bucks right. You get those blowouts when a team has a great day.

The Schedule flexibility now that is an issue to skip the tournament. But just because you didn't play don't throw mud.

10:48 how come I don't see a disclaimer **** PDA and MF teams did not play??

10:41 BRAVO!!

10:59 Parent's doing yes - but not a shame doing WHAT THEY THINK IS RIGHT.

I don't think the kid cares who gets the credit

Of the girls playing in college from non-ecnl teams - How many Clubs - is it a 50/50 split?

Anonymous said...

10:59


This is 9:47.

I fully understand what was before the ECNL, but i am looking forward with my daughter.

My daughter is on one of those teams that is very good but just short of being elite.


She has been invited to play on an ECNL team.

She would probably be a core player and add to the team.

She is ready to make change , I have spoke to coach and he has given all the top tournament arguments but cannot refute the current statistics that have been published. All he says is that make sure she is a starter and top 6-7 player- which indirectly tells me that playing for these types of teams are more competitive because they collect top players. In the sane breath, he tells me that the clubs goal is to get into the ECNL in the future. They are trying to procure fields.

The message is confusing and sounds like a sales pitch.

I am well ware that Non ecnl players play d1- But it seems that the data regarding incoming freshman suggest, that this league will be a significant contributor to the Elite college scene in the next 5 years.

No has been able to lead me to a website or article or data (not opinion) that disputes the strength and future of the ECNL league.

i would like data that states why its better to stay out of the ECNL.

Thank you


Anonymous said...

11:27 another alrtio sincepda/mf infomercial.

Anonymous said...

10:16am and 10:34am are both correct.
For all but the top 6-7 on those ECNL rosters how do you showcase yourself when your role is part time play or even worse part time dress?
what happens as the above posters said when the college coach comes and your are not even dressed because you weren't chosen for that event?
What if he comes to watch you and you play 5 or 10 minutes per half.
Makes no sense for those girls to not be somewhere where they play regularly , gain confidence and game experience and have a major role on their team to showcase themselves to college coaches in elite tournaments.
believe me the only reason pda and mf want the extra bubble kids to stay is to keep the dues coming.

Anonymous said...

Obviously it sounds like everyone can afford the $10000 per year now to play on ecnl npl wildcats and sta. If that is not a problem now, then don't worry about the scholarships in four years.

Anonymous said...

*sigh*

No one is talking about scholarships.

National team-caliber players get scholarships.

The conversation is about getting onto a college team. Very different.

Anonymous said...

FWIW, my long-winded take – Before ECNL, there were top clubs, where most college players came from, and lesser clubs, which may have the occasional/rare player who received a scholarship. Only some of those top clubs joined ECNL, while others didn’t for whatever reason – lack of field space, geographic proximity to ECNL club, not part of the coaches’ clique that set up ECNL, etc. ECNL likes to compares themselves to all non-ECNL clubs, not just their peer group. As a result, you’ll never find any studies showing that you should do non-ECNL over ECNL because on aggregate, ECNL will always come out better when you include clubs that never had any intention of competing on that same level.

Having said that, because ECNL has done such a good sales job, their clubs are probably producing a higher percentage of scholarship recipients now then they were before, as some players who would have gone to those peer clubs instead joined an ECNL club. That doesn’t change the fact that those players would still likely have received a scholarship if they joined the peer club instead. In fact, I would say a number of ECNL players (say players 10-22) would be more likely to get a scholarship if they were on one of the peer clubs’ teams because they would play more and be seen more.

Instead of basing the decision of moving from a non-ECNL to an ECNL team on a sales pitch based on flawed data, a parent would be smarter to consider the specifics of their particular situation. How will your daughter’s playing time change; will she be sitting the bench? Which club will best develop her, as not all coaching staffs are created equal? Which club will offer better competition in practices and league games ( a factor that typically favors ECNL teams)? Does the current club provide adequate opportunities to be seen by college coaches; do the coaches have good college connections? Is there an increased commitment (time or money) that your family can’t handle? Weigh everything together instead of just blindly swallowing the ECNL kool-aid, and only move if the specific ECNL team you’re considering offers more, not because you just want those four letters on our kid’s soccer kit.

Anonymous said...

12:30

Thank you.That gives me a lot to think about.

It is the particular situation that your daughter is in and the club and trainer and how she is valued.

That make sense. I just couldn't articulate it.

our club is a good one not great .Our trainer is good not great.

I will expand for next year looking at both Non ecnl and ECNL clubs to figure out best fir for my daughter.

This could not hurt in figuring out what is best for my daughter.


Anonymous said...

Clarification please? When you say peer club you mean equal?

If a player is 10-22 what makes you think they would be any different on an equal club? The only way their playing time would increase is if the peer club was below and not equal? What am i missing or misunderstanding?

Anonymous said...

12:46 the answer to your question is very simple.
Because players 10-22 would be going from a team with a roster of 22 or more to a team with a roster of 18 or less.
Even if teams were equal overall the player would dress and play each game.
That's not the case for 10-22 on a team of 22 or more players.

Anonymous said...

By peer club, I mean a club that is also seeking to develop college-ready playing and competing in top flights of tournaments with ECNL teams.

To your second point, that’s a fair question. In my view, it’s comes to a comparison of team vs club. If the two teams (ECNL and non-ECNL) were identical, then you’re right, player 15 would still be in the same place for either one, and there could be good reasons to go with the more prestigious club (depends where you are, but that’s probably the ECNL club). But teams are rarely identical. So is it better to be the
back-up goalie on the ECNL team or the starter on another team. If both clubs can offer you the same opportunities to be seen and quality training, then you pick the non-ECNL team. Or if you’re an offensive player stuck on the bench behind an All-World forward, then maybe playing for an offensively-challenged but otherwise very good non-ECNL team might be the right choice. My point was that while most ECNL clubs are very good at what they do, there are clubs that can offer similar exposure and opportunities as an ECNL club, and a parent should consider their particular situation before changing just to change.

Anonymous said...

Interesting at 11:27

"She has been invited to play on an ECNL team"

More poaching - nice.

Anonymous said...

The whole ECNL debate is up to you to decide what is best for your daughter.
If you are a bench played on an ECNL team then you may get more playing time on a NON ECNL team. Even if you are #14 because of the sub rule in ECNL. Once you are subbed out you cant return to the game until the 2nd half. In other leagues it is unlimited subs.
So I understand the whole talk about if you daughter is a bench player then better to be on NON ECNL team.

Anonymous said...

1:15

Got it might be equal or lower or higher but the end result is the same development for college and beyond.

In NJ the arguement could be made that MF and PDA are equal.
Next up as of today are the Wildcats - so can 10-22 help the Wildcats?

PA is another animal - some will argue that 10-22 on PF would be 10-22 on PL, but 10-22 on PF might be starts on other ECNL teams CFC and FC Bucks andmost others if not all PAGS teams.

NY is crazy, so would 10-22 start for NYSC or would they also be 10-22. EM and ALbertson are crazy both Nassau teams with no equal although somemight say they ae equal to Albertson I think. In a city so big that's a melting pot it's sad to see met oval not in the picture.

I agree with what you are saying and 2;18 - playing time is a premium and some difficult choices will be made some will benefit their kids and some won't that much is a given.

Anonymous said...

Good discussion, folks.

12:30, you lost me with "flawed data". To what data are you referring?

Anonymous said...

Some kids will leave for more playing time and others will enter to be bench players. Oh if we only had a crystal ball.

Anonymous said...



If going ECNL look to PDA

Until MF figures out fields and how to run a organization the right way then next option

Other options

WILDCATS
STA
CRUSH
FC COPA
SJEB









Anonymous said...

2:26 - I think 12:30 was trying to say that if a player comes over to ECNL at u17 and goes on to D1 the club the player has listed is her last club. He's is trying to say the ECNL club didn't develop the player. He might be right but the ECNL club opened the door that may or may not have been opened if they didn't make the move - that is something we will never know.

Anonymous said...

It has happened more often than not that the elite players may join ECNL in the later years which really stinks for all the players that have been there throughout the years. The ECNL teams will play their best players. They don't care how long you have been on the team. Sad but true. Kind of throws a wrench into the whole ECNL at U13 U14 because what is a ECNL (PDA) tean now will have a completely different roster in 2 years when all the non ecnl elite players move in.

Anonymous said...

By flawed data, I’m referring to ECNL’s misrepresentation of scholarship numbers. As one example I noted, they like to compare their numbers to all other clubs, even though most clubs aren’t in the business of producing college-level players. Two, they take credit for players whose skills were developed by other clubs and trainers. Sure they helped get those players seen by college coaches but skilled players could have gotten attention from other high-level teams as well. My biggest issue is that ECNL acts as if the league made the reason behind their clubs’ successes, when most of these clubs and their teams were already very good. As someone said earlier, PDA was PDA well before ECNL came along. ECNL picked clubs already at the top of the heap, and it’s not liked they made any of them dramatically better other than providing them with a script for pitching recruits.
(One exception to this last point is FC Virginia, which came into existence as an ECNL club because Terry Foley helped start the league. Essentially all their older players were developed outside the club, as they recruited good teams to join using the ECNL brand name.)

Anonymous said...

2:53 I don't see it that way. As a parent if my child was a D1 prospect I want her to have as many feathers in her hat as possible. No one should be mad or have their feelings hurt. Our kids are used by the system and they should be allowed to use the system to reach their goal. Even if it's playing on an ECNL team for 1 year for her to say she plays in ECNL.

Anonymous said...

"they like to compare their numbers to all other clubs"

To what league should they compare themselves? To how many teams?


I don't disagree that the ECNL came along and cherry-picked a bunch of already established clubs to form strong league(s). I personally have no problem with this, but I if you do then I also don't have a problem with that.

The league, as it exists today, seems to put a lot of players into D1 schools. A disproportionate amount, actually (feel free to dispute).

My oldest is only 13 so I really do not care how those particularly teams came to form the league. I also do not care about the training. What I care about, for the sake of this argument, is how well the ECNL teams place kids into D1 schools? It seems like they are the best at it. If they are not, then please tell me who is.

If you are arguing that some players get trained at non-ECNL clubs, and then bail at older ages for the ECNL teams, who place them into D1 schools, I'm also cool with that. And I'd love to see some data on that.

Anonymous said...

Funny that you should mention NYSC, since I brought my daughter to a several training sessions these past few weeks, just to see the team and the training, heard good things about them.

My daughter plays for another club in the county, they are not as advanced, and know I see why.

Its the training, its intense.

The NYSC girls train like they are playing in the world cup, they challenge every ball, run as fast as they can, and can think ion their own, which is an overlooked quality at this age.

I don't have much hope for my daughter being added to the roster, its full, but these past sessions have really opened my eyes.

Anonymous said...

3:17

How many ECNL players do not get into college soccer programs?

Maybe this should be your next question.

If it is not a guarantee, no golden ticket, maybe its the talent, not the TITLE of the league - and maybe you should unbiasedly evaluate your daughter and think twice.

Anonymous said...

Well said - 2:53

and doesnt ECNL have to answer the question of why so many oif their teams are bad, for lack of a better word?

Anonymous said...

This is so frustrating. Who has said it is a guarantee?

Let's lump "ECNL is not a guarantee" onto the pile of useless arguments.

No one ever said it was a guarantee.

Anonymous said...

Based on the numbers, college coaches do not seem to care about the so-called bad ECNL teams. Are the numbers telling you something different.

I'll let this go, but it's pretty clear the anti-ECNL crowd is scared to death to discuss those two links. No worries, folks. I'll drop the issue.

Anonymous said...

4:13 I agree - if the league becomes what I think it can and what it was built to be - I would be scared as well If i was on the outside looking in. Of course no guarantee, but Imagine ODP what is was. Now imagine those players all skipping ODP and going to ECNL clubs which is almost happening today. You would have an ODP League, only difference instead of calling it ODP you call it ECNL - who cares what the team name is - it's the product that it can be.

It's not but that's what I view it as. The good thing for soccer and all girls is that if this happens it opens up ODP to girls that would never have been accepted and they can now have a chance as well (late bloomers).

I think clubs need to stop trying to compare themselves with the ENL clubs. Offer what you can enter State Cups and High Profile Tournaments to give your kids the best chance to build up their resumes. What I don't understand is the throwing mud at State Cup if ECNL is ODP - those teams should never be compared with non-ecnl teams - so why hate on a team like Nj Crush and This NJ Wildcats for playing in almost every major and adding to their trophy case for their kids. You want ECNL you got - so stop breaking on everything non-ecnl. Has to work both ways.

Anonymous said...

NPL is also growing.

Who's to say they wont be on par in 5 years?

Anonymous said...

I agree this year is their First Girls Showcase. Maybe Next year they add u14 for our Age Group - For the lucky few can you think of a better way to spend new year's than in Sunny Florida. How many of us would go if it wasn't for soccer? ENJOY THIS SOCCER JOURNEY WHERE EVER IT GOES.

Below is a breakdown of D1 schools as of today attending. Not a Bad Audience for NPL Clubs and ECNL B teams at this NPL ONLY EVENT

NPL Girls Showcase
Dec. 31-Jan. 2
Palm Coast, FL

Division 1
Alabama State University
Boston University
Bryant University
Duquesne University
Loyola University Maryland
Marist College
Providence College
Rutgers University - New Brunswick
Seton Hall University
South Carolina State University
St. Josephs University (PA)
Temple University
Towson University
United States Military Academy
University of NC - Wilmington
University of Pennsylvania
University of Rhode Island
Yale University

Anonymous said...

Left on list when narrowed to where I would want my kid to get an education:


United States Military Academy
University of Pennsylvania
Temple University
Yale University

Anonymous said...

Even if your kid is a great player, why would a parent be more focused on the athletic league of a college than if the school is the correct academic fit for the child?

Anonymous said...

9:27 - So True

" most of us go pro in something other than sports"

From NCAA

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know when GS will update the fall NPL league’s? Might affect spring flight placement, such as Jeff Cup, PDA and Delco.

Thanks!

Anonymous said...

How would anyone know?

Anonymous said...

I bet the Got Soccer guy knows.

Anonymous said...

Still games to be played in NPL. PDA vs East Meadow on December 13th. Winner clinches 1st place.

Anonymous said...

My guess would be once all NPL games are played across all flights and ages.

NYCSL & New Englnd Used GS and still hasn't had points awarded.

Your guess is as good as mine.

Anonymous said...

I think GS guy posted earlier that pre ECNL would be worth 10,000 and NE NPL would be 7,500.

Probably beneficial for NE NPL to wait until GS deletes old stuff from teams to help boost NE NPL teams rank %. All EDP teams will drop when GS corrects points.

Anybody else recall?

Anonymous said...

PDA vs East Meadow NPL.....

So we wait for two teams which are somehow NPL for one season

Recall - NPL wants you to put an entire CLUB in their leagues, not individual teams - seems they are starting to get away from this (the new EDL for spring is another example).

Bears watching.

Anonymous said...

thought points were meaningless

Anonymous said...

Points are not meaningless, they just are not a ranking.

Anonymous said...

If points were meaningless ECNL teams would not have lobbied gotsoccer to start giving points for league play

Anonymous said...

I thought we were on a hiatus from ECNL and non-ECNL teams taking potshots at each other.

Anonymous said...

NPL season still going on for the older ages. They won't award points before the season ends. Who does that?

I think 10,000 and 7,500 were assumptions made on GS being able to identify the teams. I don't think the points will come close to that.

EDL from spring is club based if NPL I think US Club soccer would have an issue if it wasn't unless of course it was just a PL or they did what Washington or Oregon are doing.

Anonymous said...

A good example would be this other site. They don't know EM Pre-ECNL is EM Hotshotz. How would GS? Or how do they know which PDA team is PRE_ECNL which is North NPL and Which is SOuth NPL - we know that - but how would they?

Rank Team Score
1 EAST MEADOW SC PRE ECNL [14] 34.29
2 EAST MEADOW SC HOTSHOTZ [47] 33.46

Anonymous said...

The NPL and Pre-ECNL season bridges both the fall and spring. The EM/PDA result doesn't CLINCH anything for anyone.

Anonymous said...

How about this? If your kid is good, that good, they'll get notice regardless of whether the play ECNL or not. The most important thing is that their team play in high level tournaments in top divisions where scouts will be. So if they're on a great team, they attend all the top tournaments, and they truly deserve to be noticed, they'll be just fine. Look at all the ECNL teams that are not great and can't even make top divisions in tournaments. That's a better option that a non ECNL team that is fantastic and IS in those top divisions?

Anonymous said...

I don't know, 2:59. What does the college recruiting data show us?

Anonymous said...

Isn't the conversation about kids that are good but not a prodigy?

We keep talking about great teams? How about good teams that usually get 2nd flight or 3rd flight. They have players that can play D1 for sure. What's better for them staying put or moving to one of the ECNL teams that aren't as great but if they add more players like that they can also become good teams. ECNL has a Champions League, North American League and Showcase level now at their end of season party.

Not sure which is better, but I can tell you I have drank the ECNL cool aide and I believe.

Anonymous said...

2:58 Are you sure? GS broke apart NYCSL NPL into Fall/Spring last season and it's a straight through league.

Anonymous said...

Clinches the extra POINTS for fall

The points are given separate. The standings carry over

Anonymous said...

NYCSL NPL U11-U14: FALL 2014
9/6/2014 - 11/23/2014

Flight Ranking Value: 7,000

PROJECTED BASED on Today's RANKINGS = 6,650.

12 STA NPL-01 (NJ)
69 INTENSE SOCCER ACADEMY NPL-01 (NYE)
76 NEW YORK SC NPL-01 (NYE)
121 MASSAPEQUA SOCCER CLUB NPL-01 (NYE)
143 NJ CRUSH FC NPL-01 (NJ)
203 MANHATTAN SC NPL-01 (NYE)
324 QUICKSTRIKE FC ELITE NPL-01 (NYE)
3543 NEW YORK RUSH NPL-01 (NYE)

------------------------------
VERY HARD TO GET THE EXACT PT VALUE, MAYBE THEY USE THE RANKINGS BASED ON THE 1st DAY OF THE SEASON
-------------------------------

I GUESS IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN IF THEY BREAK FALL/SPRING INTO 2 SEASONS LIKE ALL OTHER LEAGUES.

ANOTHER POTENTIAL ISSUE, WE WILL FIND OUT ONCE THEY ENTER THE LEAGUE IS DO THEY KNOW THE TEAMS OR ARE THEY JUST GOING BY THE GS TEAM NAMES.

PRE-ECNL SHOULD BE 10,000

9 WORLD CLASS FC '01 CHARLTON
13 EAST MEADOW HOTSHOTZ
30 PLAYERS DEVELOPMENT ACADEMY STORM
36 BOSTON BREAKERS ACADEMY GU13 ECNL
38 CFC WEST ORANGE

BUT BASED ON THE BELOW PRE-ECNL TEAMS THAT CAN BE IDENTIFIED AS OF TODAY = 7,500

36 BOSTON BREAKERS ACADEMY GU13 ECNL
65 PENN FUSION SA '01G PRE-ECNL
71 ALBERTSON FURY '01 PRE-ECNL
89 FSA FC U13 GIRLS PRE-ECNL 01
133 MATCH FIT ACADEMY FC ECNL


NPL SHOULD BE 6,737

17 PLAYERS DEVELOPMENT ACADEMY AJAX
55 MATCH FIT ACADEMY FC NORTH EAST NPL
82 CFC ARSENAL SKY
118 PDA DRAGONS
305 FSA FC U13 GIRLS NPL 01

BUT BASED ON THE BELOW NPL TEAMS THAT CAN BE IDENTIFIED AS OF TODAY = 2,836

55 MATCH FIT ACADEMY FC NORTH EAST NPL
305 FSA FC U13 GIRLS NPL 01
330 FC STARS OF MASS NPL
342 WORLD CLASS FC '01HAMM NPL
741 FC BUCKS FURY NPL 01

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure if it's just the u13's or the entire club, but I'm hearing that Atlantic United is folding. I think we can all agree that their current NJ #9 ranking on GS is misleading, but they're still a legit top 20 team and those girls who continue to play will need somewhere to go. What are their options and how much can this impact the new teams?

Most logical jumps are to Boca, PDA Shore, SJEB or NJ Rush?

Anonymous said...

How about Jersey United or NJ Stallions? They both need a u13 NPL team

Anonymous said...

Region 1 #of teams per GS

975 u11
1388 u12
1405 u13
1190 u14
952 u15
648 u16
585 u17
490 u18
296 u19

Anonymous said...

Based off of GS

u15 3,569 teams Nationally (2% ECNL)
u16 2,677 teams Nationally (3% ECNL)
u17 2,236 teams Nationally (3% ECNL)
u18 1,957 teams Nationally (4% ECNL)

The ECNL makes up 3% of all the u15-u18 Teams Nationally that GS has in their database.

Are we still going to question if ECNL is the place to be or what? Let's leave ECNL alone - it by far is the place to be if you are a top athlete in the sport. That doesn't mean all the top Athletes play their, because youth soccer offers many opportunities for top athletes.

Your friendly neighborhood GS guy.

Anonymous said...

Uhhh..I think we are going to say that ECNL is the place to be if you are a top athlete in the sport with a top level bank account to go along.

Anonymous said...

Have to agree. The ECNL would not be a good fit for a top player of limited means.

Anonymous said...

6:21 & 6:46

All top teams cost, because top tournaments (Jeff, WAGS, Discovery, Disney, FC Stars, Surf) are overnight stays.

If a kid is a top athlete in any sport the parents pay.

Anonymous said...

Are you suggesting that a talented player without the means to join an elite team and attend big tournaments just quits the sport?

Anonymous said...

If you don't get your kid to Disney they may as well hang up their cleats.

Anonymous said...

What about Universal Studios, or Sea World? I heard those are important too!

Anonymous said...

For all those top teams that can't make it out of their brackets, they provide a place to kill some time before heading back to the airport.

Anonymous said...

So says the jealous parent whose team hasn't won a tournament in the last 12 months

Anonymous said...

Ok.. You convinced me. In spite of soccer being the sport of masses across the globe, here it is the sport of kings. What idiot player who is not jetting off to top tournaments thinks they are worthy of even stepping on the pitch.

Anonymous said...

Wait a second - do you guys actually think Soccer doesn't cost a lot of money to play overseas at the youth level?

What do you think? Every kid that plays for free.

If a kid is identified it's one thing but if you want your kid to train with top clubs like we do here. You have people driving many miles where gas costs ~$2 a liter (~$8 a gallon) in addition to training costs. How many people in these small towns and villages do you think can actually afford soccer?

Anonymous said...

Who is talking about free? There is significant middle ground between free and hotels and plane tickets. Even $8 a gallon is not overnight stays and plane rides.

Anonymous said...

Unless any of you guys are from another country you have no idea what I'm talking about.

What will be the excuse be if ECNL was for Free?

I don't think anyone would have a problem with roster size then, more opportunities right? or should they drop it to 15?

3% of all the teams producing what % of the D1 players in only 5 years?

Anonymous said...

8:42 and these countries are the same size as the ours right?

Anonymous said...

Can you clarify what side of this argument are you on? Do top players need to come from $$$ or not?

Anonymous said...

8:47 if ecnl were free than you wouldn't see the expanded roster size because there would be no financial incentive to deal with all the unnecessary crap the inflated rosters bring.there would also be no inflated rosters on the B or C teams either, which never made any sense other than increased financial profit per team for the club anyway. What does ecnl league have to do with expanded rosters on the non-ecnl teams (B and C Teams) in the ecnl clubs anyway.
Like those bubble players on the outside of dragons, ajax and the other npl teams rosters are really ever going to see any ecnl league action.
Please.

Anonymous said...

UEFA u17

Qualifying round:
Elite round:
Final tournament:

Plus other tournaments and friendlies

That's 3 overnight stays with either a plane or train ticket needed unless you plan on driving, cheap right? not the sport of kings?

Anonymous said...

How did we jump in U17 international team competition?

Anonymous said...

Anyway. I stand by the idea that you don't need to fly to tournaments in Disney to become a great player but I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Lots of folks are certainly making a tidy profit off the other side of this argument.

Anonymous said...

8:55 I'm just saying if you have an elite athlete (womens soccer) parents are going to pay regardless of where they live.

8:57 Did you say NO inflated rosters? How are the clubs going to finance this if they only roster 18? You seem to know it all break down the following costs for me:

Field Rentals
Field Maint
Lights
Insurance
Leagues
Tournaments
Ref Fees
Coach Salary
How much per person?

How do you know they won't see any ECNL league action and why do you care? They won't be on your kid's team if they are so elite.

Anonymous said...

Some said sport of kings in the states compared to globally.

I'm just saying we need to compare apples to apples if we are going down that path.

u17 ECNL (Played in a country as big as europe minus Russia)

U17 UEFA only other tournament that comes close at the youth level. No Country is as big and no country besides Germany comes close to the player pool we have so we have to combine countries.

That's my thinking and why I brought up UEFA

Anonymous said...

"3% of all the teams producing what % of the D1 players in only 5 years?"

This is what I mean by flawed data. Looking at the number of teams in GS to get a percentage is idiotic as many of those teams no longer exist, are double counted or are rec teams that played in an all-star tournament. Many of the remaining travel teams are from clubs that never produced college recruits. Most are lower level teams including many from ECNL clubs so ECNL is relying in part on the lack of success of their B and C teams to promote their A team.

The truth is that the clubs in ECNL were already producing a large percentage of the college recruits before ECNL. With all of its promotions, why doesn't ECNL publish numbers show how significantly MORE players are getting scholarships from their clubs then before? Because they can't. Anyone who says that the league made a huge difference is delusional and has just bought into their marketing materials.

Anonymous said...

"Sport of Kings"

If you have an elite athlete in any sport or you think your kid is, it will cost you.

You think AAU Basketball or Hockey or Volleyball or Field Hockey or Lacrosse or Cheer is cheap then you are kidding yourselfs.Disney has national events for all those sports and more.

Soccer is not the only sport that costs money.

Anonymous said...

I did not realize we are talking about the one kid form the tri-state area that is headed to US U17 National team. Go ahead...fly her to Disney.

Anonymous said...

9:19

Okay if it's idiotic - you can prove that they don't produce ODP players right? or are you just guessing?
You are also making the assumption that all teams use GS, aren't you? GS was easy to put together the numbers it's not exact but it gives us an idea? Maybe you have a better way to compile the data, would love to hear it.

Also do you think soccer clubs are fortune 500 companies that keep stats that you are looking for.

The DA and ECNL are killing Region1 and ODP - you want to bet most people that have a problem with ECNL have some ties to USYSA/Region1/ODP. They are just upset the money is going some where else.

Anonymous said...

9:26

Non-ECNL NJ team has traveled to
VA, PA, VA and MD in the last year they have WV and maybe IN to go.

How is this any different than an ECNL team?


SO ECNL has ~3% of all the teams playing soccer nationally and Non-ECNl teams travel just as much if not more in addition to some having rosters in excess of 18. My bet the cost is not very different for the teams in the business of sending players to college ECNl vs NON-ECNL

Let's not for get the North American Super Y finals start today to crown our age groups 1st National Champion

Anonymous said...

9:25 I agree - it always comes back to Money and roster size when you look at the stats ECNL vs NON-ECNL.

A league that has been around for only 5 years is putting up some sick stats. Some people want you to believe that thee are only 154 Clubs in the country that are in the business of sending kids to college and it's a 50/50 split.

ECNL has 77 Clubs
The USA has 50 states and to think we only have 154 clubs that produce top athletes is insane. if you don't like 3% - what do you think it is to make it not flawed? Can't wait to read this.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone seen the below yet?

http://resources.ussoccer.com/2015womensworldcup/wwc-girls-camp-brochure.pdf

I guess it is the sport of kings!

check out the cost

Anonymous said...

10:50, Yes, well, my daughter wants an Umpa-Lumpa also, doesn’t mean she is getting one.

Anonymous said...

Did you see all that's included but that price is just CRAZY.

But make no mistakes that wasn't put together with my kid in mind and I'm okay with that. An experience like that should cost - keep in mind that's for the kids that will never get to that level and have parents that can make a serious donation. Keep in mind the USSF pays the salary of the WNT players playing in NWSL.

Anonymous said...

Can a king really afford that?

Anonymous said...

That brochure was probably emailed to every ECNL family in the country. They know where to look for the donations!

Anonymous said...

It is on a first come first serve basis, UNLESS you are ECNL, then you go to the front of the line. Remember you will have to correctly perform/demonstrate the classified ECNL handshake first (or provide the secret Illuminati code).

Anonymous said...

There was a separate offering for ECNL families. A couple of grand more but it includes a really cool patch and a private breakfast with some top college caoches.

Anonymous said...

9:13am what a joke?
How do you think the clubs have been paying those costs of running a team all these years WITHOUT inflating rosters above the 18 player limit?
There IS plenty of money from the exorbitant dues already being paid at any of these clubs(45-50K per team per year coming in to club for a normal 18 player roster with each family paying around $2500. per month, of that at most $10K-$12K. paid to coach and trainer per year leaving way more than enough to cover
tournament and league fees, ref fees and field rental with a tidy profit left over for the club.
This new inflated roster scam if it flies means every dime paid in dues to club above the 18th player goes directly to the clubs net profit line as there is NO ADDITIONAL COST to roster above 18 to a team.(1 coach per team, 1 trainer per team per session, 1 league fee per team, 1 set of refs per game per team,1 application fee for each tournament the team enters,etc.).
And you sir are not only buying this scam, you are running interference for these clubs who are putting this over on you and other naive parents.

Anonymous said...

Can't speak for other ages, but my daughter's pre-ECNL club charges about $2500 for the year. With travel this fall and spring to CT, LI, MD, MA, and VA twice, that's probably another $2000 you can add on.

Most expensive club at this age I've heard of Eagles, in southern CA. They charge about $10,000/year, but their schedule seems to be mostly tournaments.

$2500/month is $30,000 for the year. What club charges this much? What age?

Anonymous said...

You can roster 18 or less

But when you get 4-5 injuries at the same time, lots of luck.

Anonymous said...

ECNL U14 SHOWCASE & JR ECNL EVENT
GREER | MAY 9-10, 2015

PRE-ECNL U13 DIVISION
East Meadow Soccer Club Pre-ECNL U13
FC Virginia Pre-ECNL U13
MatchFit Pre-ECNL U13
PDA Pre-ECNL U13
Penn Fusion SA Pre-ECNL U13

Atlanta Fire Pre-ECNL U13
Bethesda SC Pre-ECNL U13
Birmingham United Pre-ECNL U13
Carolina Elite Soccer Academy Pre-ECNL U13
Concord Fire Pre-ECNL U13
GSA Pre-ECNL U13
Maryland United FC Pre-ECNL U13
Mclean Youth Soccer Pre-ECNL U13
Ohio Premier Pre-ECNL U13
Richmond United Pre-ECNL U13
West Florida Flames Pre-ECNL U13
Vardar Pre-ECNL U13
Ohio Elite SA Pre-ECNL U13

Anonymous said...

Oh boy, 1:42, that looks like a pro-ECNL post disguised as a simple listing of applied teams at a tournament. I hope you have you're ready for:

ECNL is expensive!

There are non-ECNL players on current D1 rosters!

ECNL does not guarantee a spot on a college roster someday!

ECNL clubs roster more than 18!

Playing time is limited for non-starters on ECNL teams!

Changing teams will make my daughter sad!

Anonymous said...

ar·ro·gant
ˈerəɡənt/
adjective
adjective: arrogant

having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

Anonymous said...

Lord knows we won't tolerate any arrogance on this board. All of you, and all of your children, are above-average.

Anonymous said...

1:33 point is rosters above 18 are not necessary to cover a clubs expenses.
and 18 rostered players was enough to handle injuries from time immemorial.
Stop trying to sell this blatant cash grab.
We are not all that stupid.

Anonymous said...

Well some are that stupid..

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