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Tuesday, May 16, 2017

U17 Girls Youth Soccer

This page is focused on Under 17 girls youth soccer, primarily in Region 1 but everyone is invited to share and post.

Teams face increased competition for the top players, (who are increasingly attending college showcases).

More teams consolidate and the best teams--academy soccer, club soccer and high school teams--battle to attract and retain the right player mix.

Stay tuned. This is bound to be good.

2,341 comments:

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Anonymous said...

ECNL will throw out all "minor" clubs who accepted the GDA spots. look for more ECNL clubs to be awarded in NYE/NJ as they throw out Alby/EM/matchfit/Penn Fusion. The Mega clubs that can legitimately field both top level A GDA and B ECNL teams will remain in an attempt to push back at the GDA hoping many of the GDA potential kids will elect ECNL level to keep playing HS. This probably will happen in the oldest age groups. They have already been offered the opportunity to keep their ECNL designation (PDA/FC Stars/breakers(NEFC). I think this is a great move along with the boys expansion to keep them relevant. They have done good things for girls development and exposure and there is clearly a niche for them below (and in some cases equal) to the GDA.

Anonymous said...

310. Please tell me what the ECNL has done for anything except exposure for themselves? I dont consider simply creating a bloated overpriced tournament profile a step fwd. The offer no consistency, no coaching standards, no facilities standards, no practice standards. What exactly dot eh ECNL offer? A chance to spend thousands on West Coast travel to be game fodder for teams from that part of the US? What pc of kids from the East Coast actually go to WC schools? Its not a great platform.

They have already been offered the opportunity to keep their ECNL designation (PDA/FC Stars/breakers(NEFC) Not sure how you include Breakers/NEFC. A newbie who has done zero. the others are on the board so no shock.

Anonymous said...

Interesting, but not sure how you arrived at your list which includes Matchfit and PF. Both have constantly produced YNT players and have had great success in the ECNL always making it to the nat'ls and have had great success with players and placement.

There are plenty of other teams that don't have the same success that they may bump out once the GDA's start. But I think they are going to take a wait and see approach. Which is why they are adding a boys league.

Anonymous said...

Yes, PF has had great success recruiting talented players once they reach 14 or 15 years of age. Just look at this year's 2002s and where they were last year.

Anonymous said...

MFit consistently recruits them. Not so sure about produce OR keep

Anonymous said...


Why do you think they have such success? Can only be because players believe the club and its coaches will set them up for best for their future in soccer and beyond.

I do think they will lose the ECNL in 2017 because they were not part of the mega club announcement a few weeks ago. The ECNL was careful to lock in PDA/Stars/BB (NEFC) because they knew their brands were necessary to make any argument, however weak, that the league was in the same ballpark for relevance as the GDA. Also that their B teams would continue to compete decently in the league. The PF NPL team is very weak compared to the ECNL team. That large delta in quality will not support the ECNL brand adequately. CFC will send it top couple of players to Penn Fusion for the GDA and PF will send its bubble players worried about PT to CFC for the ECNL. The leveling will take a few years, but will be faster than everyone anticipates.

Strong ECNL teams in underserved markets will remain. That's why they are carefully adding Pittsburgh, TN and NE teams. No GDA in OH north so Cleveland will be powerhouses in the ECNL. There will be areas of the country where the GDA teams will not all be superior to the ECNL teams, but not in the NE.

The USSF won't allow the HBC-USYSA model to survive. No JH going to u15 national camp anymore. Instead they will notify such a player that they have identified her through the NTC, but that she needs to be seen through the competitive lens of the GDA to make it to YNT camps. She will move in a nanosecond to have a chance at the gold ring.

Anonymous said...

@1251 MF do not retain the players. Also how many do they have who are consistently in Camps?

Anonymous said...

it is foolish to watch U14 U15 Camps too closely. This is the discovery phase and USSF should look at as many players as possible. By u16 and u17 you can see more consistency to who is invited, but even there, hard to read too much in to it. The one area I do agree is that unless you are a truly outstanding player , it will be hard to avoid going the GDA route IF NTs are something you desire. As players commit earlier and earlier, exposure stops being the key and playing for YNTS is the next level. Several 2019s and some 2020s are already off the board. Once the headliners go GDA, the rest will follow.

Anonymous said...

Agree if the best and well known kids matriculate to the GDA the great mass of very good players under the very top will go also. They believe they are just as good but for whatever reason aren't offered the same opportunity to shine. With a little time or change they will soon achieve headliner status if offered the same opportunity GDA to shine.

Anonymous said...

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/high_school/new_jersey/20160908_Eastern_s_Ali_gets_invite_to_U_S__women_s_national_soccer_team.html

Love it. USSF isn't only looking at DI and Power 5 it appears.

Anonymous said...

Whoops, my mistake. She's a Rutgers' recruit. Nonetheless, great job.

Anonymous said...

Confused. These are HS kids. Funny how all of a sudden its PDA kids getting call ups and no one comments about bias and favoritism :) If it was FC Stars ......

Anonymous said...

Hahaha. True.

Anonymous said...

PDA coaches are not assistants in the national program u18 so no favoritism there. Stars coach is an assistant to the u16 as is the Mi hawks coach there is favoritism/advantage conveyed there.

Anonymous said...

so PDA kids attending Rutgers are NOT getting any breaks? That is your contention? Hilarious.

Anonymous said...

i guess the only conclusion we can draw is that all PDAs best kids are going to Rutgers :) Strange coincidence I guess.

Anonymous said...

And many other top schools as well

Rutgers is a top program. Its to be expected that top ECNL kids in the local area attend.

Anonymous said...

@ 109

yes and FC Stars / Michigan hawks are top Clubs so no surprise or conspiracy when several kids represent out YNTs

Anonymous said...

no disrespect, but if Rutgers is a top destination for the best players in the youth game on the East Coast then why are we paying all these showcases on the West Coast. lets all play in the tri state. I think we can get our kids in there without soccer.

Anonymous said...

Watching the Thorns vs. Flash. Great game.

Anonymous said...

Yep. Flash looking to choke away a playoff spot to Seattle

Anonymous said...

How often do you see the top 25 soccer schools (even extend to top 50) at local tournaments scouting players? That would be never. There are only a few events from which these coaches believe they can accurately evaluate players. They believe they need to see attacking players score against well organized and skilled defenses and well trained keepers. They need to see midfielders keep possession under serious pressure and create chances against well organized and speedy defenses. They need to see defenders manage fast and skilled attacks. Etc. these guys have a few big events listed on their must see. Go to a big time west coast event and you will see all of the ACC SEC and Big 10. And they aren't just scouting he Californians.
That's said we have had the ACC SEC and big 10 at my kid's practices and home games. But that has been when they are close to a decision on a player. In fact one prominent ACC coach said that he had seen my kid play 40 games over 3 years. The last of which and the clincher was in San Diego. That's why most teams travel to these notable events.

Anonymous said...

your post assumes that these scenarios only exist at big events. ECNL is a joke in terms of the travel. We are paying to create the one stop shop for the coaches. What benefit is there to players who are already committed? AT man y of these events, the competition is "managed" some teams face weaker competition than they face in the reg season. The ECNL is a clearing house for players in the middle of the pack. Top end players are well known and the ECNL is not providing them with better competition per se. its teh same competition every year for most of the time.

As to your 40x comment. maybe in a special set of circumstances a coach would see a player 13x per year, but that is not typical. tbh, not sure why you even mentioned it.

Anonymous said...

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/college-soccer-articles/ncaa-opts-to-relocate-womens-college-cup_aid40095

NCAA relocating various championship events (including soccer championship cup) from NC starting this year. Will this affect those going to CASL (teams and college coaches)?

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Okay adults this is a YOUTH soccer forum and please leave personal and political opinions off the board.

The question was trying to find out if anything thinks this will significantly decrease the amount of coaches and therefore the amount of teams attending.

Anonymous said...

How is the coach going to see a kid with enough frequency and at a high enough competition level to be able to judge whether she is a good fit unless there are consolidated national or at least regional level events? That the country is so big indeed presents challenges, but the consolidated events have merit for both ID and developmental purposes.

Anonymous said...

yes i am speaking from the perspective of a very high level player looking to play at the highest levels in college. The developmental and ID advantage of top competition remains for the national events despite a kids commitment status.

Anonymous said...

2:18
You'll be fine once you decide in which restroom you can sit down to pee

Anonymous said...

Sad to say, politics control youth soccer, whether you like it or not

Anonymous said...

September 14, 2016 at 11:53 AM

If you cant handle LGBT issues, then you may want to reconsider your involvement or your child's involvement in women sports.

Every team will have members of the LGBT community, with many kids coming out in college. Its not a big deal... everyone deals with it in a mature way. But, make no mistake... womens sports absolutely cater to the LGBT lobby... so if you can handle it... get the heck out of womens sports.

Anonymous said...

No stereotypes were used in the publication of the preceding post!
So you're saying I should be concerned if my daughter wants Megan Rapinoe's hair style?

Anonymous said...

430-432 no it does not. Travel =/= better. You can play 2 of the 4 U16 ECNL finalists, NEFC etc and not travel more than 3 hours. Or i can go all the way to San Diego and play worse teams. Travel =/= development. In reality, a kid already committed to a top program is simply traveling to act as a yardstick for others. I do not believe she is necessarily playing any better competition by doing so. Often she is playing shorter games on worse surfaces with worse refereeing and less rest/recovery.

I dont believe they have any real merit for the vast majority of players. They clearly have merit for coaches. The money spent on redundant travel could be used to add training or add more then one local fixture. Its a simple choice between parents paying to travel to coaches OR coaching staffs actually doing more work to ID players and paying for it themselves.

The money spent on travel could be spent to provide scholarships to lower income kids, could be used to broaden the pools etc, instead its just another barrier to entry. in the 10+ years my family has been involved in youth soccer, I can honestly count on the fingers of one hand the times a long journey has led to playing a better team than we could face in our own backyard and all of those instances were at least 3 years ago. We are in a hotbed of youth soccer for girls in the NE. We dont need to travel far t play the best teams. We dont need to go to California to find competition. its right here.

Anonymous said...

These are not just women's sports that are moving from NC. And, LGBT community is not exclusive male or female. And, hopefully, this generation is learning more about inclusiveness, tolerance and respect. Fingers crossed.

Anonymous said...

Interesting post 10:34. So, are you proposing maybe ECNL showcases that are regional (the teams in those regions attend) and then maybe a nat'l championship coming out of it? Certainly thought provoking.

Anonymous said...

Isn't there some other soccer organization that conducts regional championships that feed a national championship?

Anonymous said...

10:34 How can you make that statement unless you play the west coast teams to see you are better?

Also Showcase events are just that showcase events to get all the kids on the roster a good look even those low income families that scrap up the money for their kids to play.

1:31 Since ECNL is US club - I'll stick to the US Club model.

The National Cup has 6 regionals (pay to play) prior to a national title if US Club was smart they would have added the ECNL final 4 and NPL Champ/Finalist to the National Cup.

USYSA does just that 1:31 - State Championship >> regional championships >> national championship to play vs teams from their top league the USYSA NAtional league

Anonymous said...

Yes, but aren't all of these tiered within US Club. For instance, NPL is US Club, too, right? US Club has it's own championship. USYS does. ECNL, NPL do as well. What about EDP?

I think a national championship that takes the top 4 (or more) finishers in each would be great (granted NPL is stronger in some areas than others). Will never happen though as there will be mass exodus from one league to the next based on outcomes.

Anonymous said...

Oh, 1:42 you answered some of this already. Didn't see your post.

Anonymous said...

142 have attended these tournaments for years. The players dont suddenly change. Some improve, some dont. None improve from simply playing these events. Look at the U16 finals for the ECNL. PDA, FC stars, Crossfire and Real Colo. Does it actually matter if the team you play is better? I say not really. it all comes down to match ups. If you are a defender on a strong team playing a much weaker one, are you really being tested? is that worth flying across the country for? I actually want to see relatively EVEN match ups. Where kids are tested, but not totally overmatched. I see that every week locally in the ECNL. Why do i need to fly to San Diego to see more of the same? Personally, I dont care if there is a national final or not. I think there shoudl be far more regional programming and perhaps one national event for the teams coming out of the region. In reality few players go from the EC to the WC to play and vice versa. the ones that do are usually top level players beig recruited by big time programs. They dont need these showcase games. The YNT ones missed a lot of ECNL programming this year.

Im all for competition, im just dead set against the amount of travel because it is truly not needed if producing players is the goal. we are al essentially funding the coaches recruiting and the ECNL marketiing machiine

Anonymous said...

3:59 So why play any games? Jus have different Soccer Schools set up and let them play internally if it playing games don't matter. Soccer always comes to match ups my friend. One team will always have better talent - it's their job to use it and the other teams job to stop them and find away to steal one. That is the beauty of this game my friend. A team can play every one in the box if they don't match up and try to survive the assault just waiting for that one opportunity then it comes down to execution. At the higher levels all the the players can play they all can dribble, juggle or what ever you consider good soccer - the one difference is there will always be someone better unless your name is Messi, Ronaldo or a few others which most are not.

We all want to see even match ups - I want to see kids from Texas, CA, Cascadia, FL and other parts of the country to see how the game is played in other parts and the type of talent they have - this is why they play a World Cup to give the little one a shot. So your kid's team is great and their league is top shelf - good for you.

You may not care but I bet you the players do. Let me see ask your kid if she can play 3 games in her home town vs the best local teams or she can go to San Diego to play 3 teams she never played before - I know which my kid would pick and my wallet will not like it.

In a country as big as ours with over a million registered players travel is NEEDED to find the right players o we can just use your opinion and make the NT from players from your league.

1. GDA (needed from day 1)
2. ECNL and USYSA NL (must have options)
3. NPL and USYSA Regional Leagues (must have options)
4. EDP, NEP, CCL and others
5. Local travel leagues
6. Rec soccer

You need a pyramid for players to climb up as they improve and the only way to see how good an attacking player is playing vs a team that will make them use everything they know to break them down and that doesn't mean the best team.

Just my 2 cents

Anonymous said...

901 I agree for those in the top 3% of youth soccer. My kid is in that group so, for her, I have no argument. I don't think the masses need the national travel to develop into even lower level D1 RPI<150 players and bee identified by those same schools in their region. I personally think they made the DA too big. They should have kept it smaller and worked with the ECNL to augment regional DA games. Then have 3 national DA showcases in three diverse geographic locations rotated yearly. That would serve all the kids the best. BUt the ECNL and DA(USSF) are in a pissing match right now to be lost by the ECNL.

Anonymous said...

901 you are twisting words. The AMOUNT of travel is not needed. And no one said local. There is huge gap between NY metro area and California. You are simply ignoring the point and making up extremes to suit your argument. I was very clear. Regional competition augmented by far fewer National commitments. I dont believe that x country travel has improved play very much. Nor should it. if you want to have an adventure with your kids, thats great. But there is no real soccer benefit for anyone. Travel has ZERO to do with a pyramid. Quality determines that.
Find the right players for what? College? the NT? for what? you dont need to travel across the country to be "discovered"

I think you are way off in the belief that travel makes players better OR that you need to travel to play different teams of better quality. You can play boys teams of different ages , older teams, scrimmage with older better players. You can vary practice as much as you need. I beleive that every player can improve massively withing the right club WITHOUT excessive travel. I will be very interested to see how much x country travel is in the DA.

Anonymous said...

3:04 not twisting anything. We have a country of millions - i would never make a blanket statement that this region has the best of anything without seeing everything first and that would still be my opinion. Quality determines pyramid - Indeed and how do you know the quality isn't better in CA or TX? Because you watched a few teams play during one weekend in a year? I don't think travel makes players better - I think travel allows you to compare EC vs WC and in between.

So lets say everybody does what you say- then what?How do you know who the better players are if they aren't on the same field? Oh year one weekend in a year determines that.

9:23 Not sure why the ECNL is even trying to get into a pee contest with the DA - The USSF runs the show and they can do what ever they want and think benefits our NTs. Just like a coach or club can do what ever it wants to run itself to make sure they have the best product.

Oh 3:04 Why does the US Basketball team go to the Olympics and World Championships when we know who has the best league? Why do players go overseas to play and Euros come to the states to play? Besides money - to follow their dreams.

Options and you can only have options if you travel. We are not like the many countries in Europe that are about the same size as NJ we have 50 of those.

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry but what does who is best have to do with anything? Its irrelevant. you are mixing things up her massively. IF you are talking about picking the best, nothing stopping regional coaches recommending players and them getting together on the same filed to play. I don't care one bit about comparing the EC vs WC. That is the job of those who benefit from that to do. And they should PAY for it if they stand to gain from it. I fault to see the relevance of me to you determining who the best team are. Very few actually care who the best teams are. coaches recruit players. If they need a player, then fly and go see them. Its very simple really. Why you think its on the parents to pay to travel all over to determine the best players makes NO SENSE at all. If a kid wants to go to Duke, call the school . They can invest whatever they feel they need to to decide . They can also spend whatever they want to go recruit kids from wherever, they are the experts. If it is really about best vs best, then why even go to national events. How many best on best match ups are there? They would be better off then going to National TEAM events and watching those because that is more likely to be the best vs best.

Im sorry, but traveling to SD x2 and Fla to crown a champion has ZERO to do with player development.

Anonymous said...

could it possibly be that traveling across country to play games is fun and developmentally appropriate for some while staying local and playing is better for others? Could it possibly be that ECNL is good for some while Non-ECNL is good for others? Could it possibly be that high school soccer is good for some but not others? Could it possibly be that Android is good for some yet I Phone for others?

Anonymous said...

8:30 it's called TRAVEL sports - don't play if you don't want to travel your choice.

Anonymous said...

1035 - Its about the AMOUNT of travel and 1032, the benefit SOCCER wise. I have yet to see one credible SOCCER argument for the logic in traveling to SanDiego 2x and Florida. If the basic argument is, well travel is fun, then OK.

1035 - No one aid NO travel, they said better thought out travel WITH SOCCER benefits.

Anonymous said...

But you have a choice there are options that don't go to SD 2X and FL - you are complaining about an option that has done this for years this is not new this was part of their model from day 1.

You have a valid beef but you are also trying to change something that many people have bought into and that is my problem - you can say I am mixing things up as much as you want - I know what the options are and I made my choice based on my kid's input.

Anonymous said...

I check this blog every couple of days or so and read what is written and every day I laugh at the absurdity of all of it. It seems like it's the same few posters lately. Every wonder why? Probably bc the majority of soccer parents just want to have their players happy, developing, hopefully going to a good college, with as little debt as possible. Some may have aspirations of playing for the NT or maybe even go pro. While you few sit here and debate the merits of ecnl vs da vs non-ecnl and you pretty much put down any college program that may not be ranked in the top 25,50 or whatever number you decide to use this week. You may not say oh that program sucks but you insinuate that only "average" players go to those programs or that your Mia is going much higher. Guess what? The reason this board has gotten so slow is that very few people really care. My kid is a 2018 and by the time she is in her senior year would I seriously care to try and have her move to a da club or keep her on ecnl? For what? Let's be real here. While some may end up breaking into the nt pool most will not. So while I applaud your special Mia's how about you take your arguments over ecnl vs da and what not and post them on your fb wall while you are bragging about your player and probably annoying the crap out of anyone who sees your posts. You know who you are. The rest of us will be cheering on our players during their high school games then going to Disney or SD or wherever it is our club teams are going. Then in a couple of years we will travel to where our kids are going to college and cheer them on some more. And in 4 more years we will watch our players get that colllege diploma and move on with their life. And I'd be willing to bet that most of you and your Mia's will be doing the same and all of this will be a footnote in your lives. Hope you don't look back and find yourself foolish for arguing with strangers on the internet over it all!

Anonymous said...

Interesting stuff as always. If I could chime in, I don't believe that ECNL had quite as many traveling events previously. And, my understanding is that ECNL (original founder/commissioner ECNL) was hopeful that at some point some of the costs would be offset by sponsors/US Soccer. And then came along the DA. Ahhhh, business model shift.

Anonymous said...

10:35 .
Travelling to SD x2 and other parts of the country is good preperation for the travel and time management required to play college ball. It inspires the girls, my daughter loved the ECNL event in SD, loved how proffessional it was. The travel and bonding was fun also.
Playing in NJ, NT, and PA gets old at times.

Anonymous said...

11:20 amen! This board has gotten boring and predictable.

Anonymous said...

Of course it has, no Club soccer. No people bragging about winning this or winning that. Just boring conversations about how best to develop better players. Out of interest, what is a soccer blog for?

Anonymous said...

Seriously odd people complaining about posters choices to post their opinions. Others complaining about recycled topics. Then start a more interesting topic or do you have nothing to add except turning up your nose at others trying to participate in the discussion. Oh your topic is: I am smarter than all you other soccer people as I look down on your posts and opinions. Guess what you sound like the dumb*** you clearly are because you are spending your time and energy not only reading what you deem as worthless but posting on it. Or is the irony list on you of little brain.

Anonymous said...

921 Suggesting it could be made a lot better. ECNL seem to add more glitz every year but rarely if ever is that to actually benefit/help produce better players. For all the rhetoric I feel that is why the USSF moved to do its own thing. We give more money to hotels and airlines than we do to actually training our kids. Think about that.

Your post suggest we should just shut up because it has always been that way. I think there is nothing wrong with suggesting improvements. I don't believe producing better players was ever the ECNL goal. I think the aim is to provide a vehicle for Coaches to see as many players a possible in a series of single locations. The thinking behind it is that parents will pay to have their kids seen. When you read these blogs, you realize that many parent measure Clubs and Leagues by how many Coaches show up. Not sound thinking to me. It should be based on how well they develop and improve players.

Anonymous said...

Nice win USWNT. Tough U20 NTC Invitational 0-2-1. Some tweaking to do but hopeful they will work it out. Exciting soccer these days.

Anonymous said...

Any inside scoop on teams accepted to Disney?

Anonymous said...

1010 are you kidding?

U20s fail to score a single goal at home in 3 games and thats exciting? I woould hate to see boring. If you watched the games, then i think you would realize that a few tweaks is not the answer. It is amazing that you are forcing kids to redshirt for this. The quality of play i saw was a massive disappointment. Some of these so called high rated players are frankly overmatched and one dimensional. Once you set them a slightly diff problem in a game, they fail. They are one speed ahead and have almost zero creativity.

Anonymous said...

Disney :

https://events.gotsport.com/events/teamlist.aspx?eventid=52947

It says "teams accepted" but it might only be applied. Acceptance emails have been sent out to the teams (or at least some of them).

Anonymous said...

Have to like the look of Rutgers' Casey Murphy in net.

Also have to wonder how she is not a top 100 NCAA player (Top Drawer list of sophs to seniors). Certainly a poor omission there, in my opinion.

Anonymous said...

@9:10 - think positively. Hopefully they will work it out beforehand.

Anonymous said...

@9:36 -- that is only accepted teams, there are teams that applied that received rejections

Anonymous said...

Sorry forgot the last minute goal by Brazil
GD -3
910 I completely agree with your assessment. I don't believe the problem is with the available players in the US, I believe the problem is with the US soccer federation's selection of coaches who then select the players. They keep the same kids in the programming and choose early puberty robotic players. I see little artists out there at at u12-14. Where are they in US soccer? They don't fit into the "system". Well news flash, your system isn't working time to try some new ideas...French and Snow should have been fired after 2014 dismal results, and yet... there they are still choosing boring players playing boring soccer. Heinrichs feeding the u20s with her u18s is the same.

Looking forward to the U17s in a few weeks. Not any real creativity. The one kid showing it, Emina Ekic, was cut earlier in the cycle after a remarkable performance in the 2015 NTC. But they do have the straight ahead dribbling individual efforts of Sanchez, Tagliaferri, Kuhlmann and Pinto to point goals on the board. Let's see if they are able to break down the organized defenses that they will face. I thought they looked a lot poorer against Japan this year 2-2 draw (one an own goal) compared to their 20 2015 result in the same tournament. My estimation looking weaker not better. Is that because of a lack in development of because they choose kids who are too close to their ceiling rather in a more rapid development phase? They are talent selectors and not talent identifiers.

Anonymous said...

How about England? Pretty impressive their continued international growth in YNT as well as their Sr. NT. Women's soccer around the world is getting better. Good to see.

Anonymous said...

10:24 - Who is in their pool? Paraguay, Ghana and Japan. Should make semi's easily.

Anonymous said...

10:24 and when they don't w'll just make fun of style like we did of the swedes. The swedes knew we had better athletes so they packed it in and said beat us. A team that could move the ball and was creative would have scored.

The problem is you have coaches teaching the game that learned the game the same way the old school long ball game. So they teach players drills they just learned and want them to execute the drills exactly (robotic play) because any great athlete will fit in and if they get their thousands of touches a week they can play the robotic game that we see today. There is no creativity because they are not looking for those types of players I too saw them at the younger ages not sure where they went or what happened to them because as previous poster said it's all about the kids now but yet they are not around anymore it's the same type of player that passes the ball right back into pressure or passes the ball late becasue they wanted to dribble into space a little further.

Anonymous said...

10:29- oh yes, you got me, my little brain cannot comprehend the irony. It couldn't possibly be that I periodically check this board, hoping that there will actually be more discussion on anything other than the same babble about the DA vs ECNL, et al. While the first few conversations on the topic where interesting and informative, the continual arguing over it, becomes mundane.

You possibly missed the point I was trying to make, obviously I wasn't clear enough. It would seem as though for most, at this age and time in their development and recruitment, the switch to DA/ECNL is pretty much a moot point.

But I forgot that this board is really for only a select few, the rest of us will just have to go muddle through and play for lower ranked teams in college.

The topic regarding the high costs of travel at this stage in the game are interesting and could be something that would be thought-provoking.

I think it may just be that most people are done discussing anything relevant to others and this board is left to the same four people arguing their opinions.

Typically, I enjoy reading others' opinions....and then there's yours.





Anonymous said...

True looks good for getting out. However the African countries can be surprising. Not sure they will match well with a very athletic side. Time will tell. The Japanese dismantled them 5-0 a few months ago. That one likely won't end well. 17s have more chance to win. The US has never won a u17 WC. This team could make a name for itself.

Anonymous said...

in regards to Disney, does it really matter who applies since ECNL and NPL have their own tournament now and majority of the those teams attend their respective tournament. Disney is now watered down. Too many tournaments in same time frame.

Anonymous said...

Two recent draws with Brazil too in August (re U17) - 1-1 and 2-2 (? - i think). Should be fun.

Anonymous said...

1239 and there is the problem. You think winning a u17 WC makes a name for a player. US needs to use these events to continually find out more about more players with an eye to the future, not continue to invite the SAME players over and over again. Why is Summer Yates not on the team? Another question, if we are developing players and looking for growth, how can you participate in more than one cycle and NOT be a gteed headliner by now? I think the USSF should be looking at many more kids over the cycle and be de emphasizing some of the team development to try and get every deserving girl they can a look.

Anonymous said...

12:49 Disney has USYSA NL games and all the top NOn-ECNl Club NPL teams. The only teams going to the NPL Florida showcase are ECNL B teams. So the only teams not going are ECNL teams - explain watered down? Disney will always be great and you can even watch games on ESPN watered down? very funny.


1:03 I agree 100%.

Anonymous said...

Okay saw the post re Disney teams applied. Explains alot as there are a lot of teams in the link/list noted above in all of the age groups, including the older ones (which usually drops off) which is good to see. I guess this is a result of the new age groups/groupings. What a crazy soccer year this will be.

Anonymous said...

Something just came across my social media that USWNT could go on strike come January. Huh?

Anonymous said...

I know winning a u17 World Cup will make names for players. Who was on the last YNT World Cup champion team. FYI it was the 2012 u20s. Many of those players have had real wnt experience and some are regular starters. I agree with you on your opinion regarding the way the us soccer fed uses these events. curious as to why you bring up Summer Yates. Unusual that an easy coaster even knows who she is. But I agree she is a solid and creative player. I suspect the Feds don't think her ceiling is high enough. Maybe she will be like Luca Deza and not get a great look because she isn't the biggest fastest or strongest kid out there.

Anonymous said...

2:57pm -They could go on strike as they are seeking more equality in pay. The strike won't help anyone. The USWNT is the only team that generates any interest for female soccer. Women's pro-leagues fail and do not get the support. Without the national team playing womens soccer will continue to decline.

Anonymous said...

504

so some kids are considered high enough ceiling right till the last camp? ok. Have you seen the size of the kids on the team? Fast and strong is clearly not a prerequisite. You know who she is, why shouldn't I ?

Anonymous said...

So let me understand the USSF pays their NWSL salary and their USWNT salary and that's still not enough. How about they try to get the girls on their NWSL team more than 6k instead of them making more money.

They can all go on strike this is great opportunity for the USSF to get new blood on the team.

Anonymous said...

Traditionally, the USWNT seems to be fully aware of their role as an ambassador of the sport for all of the other womens' teams.

So, hopefully that mindset will prevail in their upcoming negotiations as well.

Anonymous said...

1:16 I think the USSF should get rid o fthem for that reason alone.

As i said they collect 2 checks from the USSF and give nothing to their NWSL teamates making 6k but yet they deserve more? They should fight for that extra money going to fund the rest of the NWSL and get those girls up to at least 30 to 50k they train with them and help them be the best in the world because without them we would have no NWSL and they would be in the work force like all of us or playing in Europe

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

I guess you didn't understand what I meant. That they will also have the best interests of the NWSL (and other semi-pro leagues) teammates as well when then renegotiate.

Anonymous said...

If anyone knows, what are the salaries like for women's pro leagues internationally (if anyone knows)? And, I don't mean the exceptions like Horan (unless it's not).

Anonymous said...

Most of the clubs overseas provide an apartment and a car in addition to salary. It really depends on the league and the country. Some are paid better than others but almost all provide an apartment and car.

But if any of you are familiar with clubs from overseas, you don't always get paid on time and sometimes if at all. UEFA is cracking down on these clubs with sanctions but Europe is another animal.

3:04 I understood what you wrote - but the USNT wants to be paid the same as the guys nothing more. They can't have US leagues at heart becasue the women's game doesn't make money Just look at Sky blue are they above 2k yet (very sad). The USSF pays their NWSL salary and their USWNT salary. The USSF pays the USMNT salary and the MLS pays their league salary. The women are forgetting that the USSF is paying them twice and it just shows how greedy they are and who they are looking out for. They could care less about our kids making 6k to train with them and play, unless our kids make the WNT then they get a bump in salary or if the club gets more than 2k a game ande can afford to bump their salary.

Anonymous said...

Team Average Total Matches
1 Portland Thorns FC 16,945
2 Orlando Pride 8,933
3 Houston Dash 5,701
4 Seattle Reign FC 4,588
5 Western NY Flash 3,868
6 Washington Spirit 3,782
7 Boston Breakers 3,472
8 FC Kansas City 3,162
9 Chicago Red Stars 2,926
10 Sky Blue FC 1,982

Anonymous said...

Those are some really sad attendance numbers.

Bravo to Portland, Orlando & Houston for being over 5k

This is what needs to be fixed - not paying the 20 players on the WNT the same as their boy counterparts. Fight for that money gap to go to the league and not tho them then I'll take their back - but from what i read they just want to make the same money as the guys nothing more.

Anonymous said...

For years all I read on this board was NJ this and NJ that and they can't even support a team - how the hell is this team in last place when it comes to a draw?

Anonymous said...

I agree with you. The WNT needs to make sure ALL are included in any negotiations.

And, agree again. Sky Blue is a great team. We have been attending since NWSL started and have watched some epic games. Unfortunately, Rutgers is not a easy location to get to. I travel from PA to games (nearly 2 hrs each way). Rough in particular on a school night which we have done, on occasion.

We watch games on U-tube when we can't make (including other teams as well). The League needs to get television support, too; maybe it's own network (with sponsors). It's time.

Anonymous said...

Oh and thank you for the information re international play/pay.

Another idea would be NWSL champs vs. other international league champs. It's not a world cup as they are not national teams, but because it's not (and would have a hodge podge of various players that aren't playing for their country but their club).
Or an international all-star game.

How cool would games like those be?

Anonymous said...

* but because it's not it may get some big numbers in attendance.

Anonymous said...

U17 WC starts this week. US plays Paraguay (easiest game in the group for them most likely) on Saturday. Will be interesting to see how Ghana is against Japan. Two very different styles. Nigeria usually the best of the African countries. Good luck to our R1 kids!

Anonymous said...

Just the 2 Jersey kids, I believe - correct?

Top Drawer said the goalkeeper "made a late charge" to claim the third slot. Kudos to her and her family.

Anonymous said...

Is the WC girl from NJ or NY? Or are you just talking about location of clubs?

Anonymous said...

She is from NJ, plays for WC, but is on U16 Roster.

Anonymous said...

WC = World Cup or World Class

Anonymous said...

World Class Club team

Anonymous said...

Sept 21st 2:18

Its a shame that this is looked upon with such cynicism, but its hard not to. I dont see how an exhaustive 2 year system can fail to identify more kids ON age who are up to par. What does that say? Or how it can carry kids (Torres, Jones) for the entire cycle and drop them at the end. Or play kids on the U20s (Torres, Spaanstra) and drop them or have them fighting for minutes at unfamiliar positions. The US is a big country, but it does seem at times that California is the only state with top players and that they seem to be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this great word "development". The power clubs seem to be well represented as always and Mr Snow clearly gets to make decisions that no one questions. Like GK #3 who is good enough to make the WC team but not asked to attend any camps until the last one. How so? How many other players are out there who were just overlooked or not given the benefit of the doubt.

Anonymous said...

cant wait for the season to start,my kid has hit her prime lighting up the HS this year,watch out

Anonymous said...

Ugh. ignore the troll.

@2:40 - appreciate your insight. T/y

Anonymous said...

240
All true and great points. BJ Snow should have been dismissed after his team failed to qualify in 2014. This u17wnt team has some top talent, but I agree clearly not all the top talent. I do suspect he wishes to blame any possible failure to meet expectations with this team on "developing" the 01s and 00s. There is no doubt that most who know the age group across the country could put together a team of age pure 99s to compete with this U17 WNT. One would wonder why in fact that didn't happen? Wouldn't a great and cost effective prep for this team be competition against top Americans? BJ could then take a look at what he's potentially leaving behind before he takes his team to Jordan.

Clearly his judgement should be called into question for initially supporting some players and then tossing them away at the last minute. Moving kids in and out of the camps at least for the first year of the cycle would have offered the best look at the most players. Then over the last year begin to actually assemble a "team". In fact the "team" that looked most competitive was the 2015 NTC team that beat up on Japan. Hence I am not sure that all of the year long "team building is really necessary. A year later, an own goal saved them from defeat and Japan clearly had the better of the game. It won't be long until we discover, which team has better developed over the last 7 or so months since they last met.

The best evidence of our poor YNT selection is shown in cross referencing rosters from U20 and u23 WC teams. The U23s have been showcased and evaluated in the college game. The U20s are mostly left overs from the u17s. There is little commonality in these oldest rosters showing those that excel in college and playing on the u23s were often left out of all previous YNTs. Exceptions being those promoted to full WNT which tend to be those that excel at u20 WC events (Dunn, Brian, Sonnett).


I could go on regarding the failures of the USSF, but back to work.

Anonymous said...

Interesting commentary. Maybe that is why they moved forward so quickly trying to get the DA's up and running?

Anonymous said...

@154

im so glad you took my post the way it was intended. I congratulate all that made the team, but i do feel that the overriding ego of the coach is what seems to prevail with this group. He seems out to prove pints as opposed to picking the best team. You are 100pct correct on strategy. Evaluate multiple players and then whittle it down. It should be almost impossible to make a team from a single camp. it appears he took 5 Gks in and then had an open tryout for the last spot. meaning he had no idea up until team selection. As far as the kids that were let go, who knows what the reason was. If they were seasoned pros, it would be tough, but 16 yr old kids..must have been brutal on them. Ekic was another player who just disappeared. I thought both Japan and England out played the USA. I still think that they have players who can win the event, but I just dont really like his methods. The last camp really should be for tweaking , not selection.

Im sure he will get the u15 group next and start building, no matter the results. The Cali cartel appears to be pretty strong for both coaches and players. Amazing that you have a defense predominantly from one state and a heavy Cali flavor and the HC has UCLA ties .Shock.

Anonymous said...

Interesting. I heard differently. He didn't bring in 5 keepers for the U17 team. Two are on U16 and trained with U17. The only new GK add is most recent to U17; he previously only had 2 (like U16 still has 2). Except for the new addition, the others have been the same call ins for the past year.

Who knows all the workings behind the curtain. Just hope it all works out successfully for the team. Go USA!!!

Anonymous said...

All of these discussions are very interesting. Appreciate the insight. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

he brought 5. The kid with the 16s has had several camps with 17s.

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/us-u17-wnt-player-pool_aid39144

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/u17-wnt-roster-for-friendlies-vs-brazil_aid39525

5 GK. 3 with several camps and 2 with none.

Anonymous said...

Guys I love all this talk - just saying it means nothing. With over 1 million registered players do you really think anyone one ever get it right?

The coach picks the team he thinks is the best in his/her opinion and plays with them. Failure does not fall on the kids it's always the coach and I agree if the coach can't win then they should be axed, sacked, fired what ever we want to call it. They play with the emotions of the kids and if they don't understand talent then GET OUT. USWNT team's that don't qualify for a major regardless of the age should never happen when you have so much talent to pick from. It just shows that person picking is clueless.

My creds, I am a naturalized euro who has played the game and has been around the game his entire life. It's a very simple game you just need players that understand it - not LaCross, Basketball, Field Hockey or Track stars. Kids that understand the game and can be creative not robotic. But in order to be creative they need to watch other players that are creative and that we don't have in the NWSL we are getting some in the MLS but need better coaching.

The youth coaches are to blame. I'm okay with playing to win that's how it should be done but I'm not okay with playing with a short bench that only creates fear to be creative because mistakes=bench time if you are not what the coach thinks is a impact player and that kills the sport's creative players because we think that Speed, Strength, Aggression & Size trump soccer IQ.

My 2 cents

Anonymous said...

not sure I agree with the comment on speed strength and aggression trumping IQ. I dont think the coaches think that. I just feel that in the absence of IQ, SSA and S win the day. that is true the world over, BUT elsewhere the culture actually produces players with IQ as well. Creativity is not created by coaches in my opinion. It is a kids feel for the game and that comes from within often. its built by free pay, watching others etc. I agree that a fear of failure can stifle it, but im not sure its there to begin with. Kids are shuttled into soccer early whether they want o or not. Elsewhere in the world, girls play because they want to. They usually have a keen interest in the sport already. Its not readily available for all thru town rec teams.

US needs to grow the culture of the game and then you will see more higher IQ players and i believe they will be selected. Now, coaches select what gives them the best chance to win Club and HHS games and that is usually athleticism. by the way, a high IQ player needs to be able to compete athletically and that is not easy in the US when teams have athletes. They close space fast and make it so that decision making has to be not just good, but very quick. It makes the bar for a high IQ player pretty high.

Anonymous said...

2 more cents sorry.

It’s a lot of individual function work and coaching, it’s all about focusing on the individual which we never did in the past.

"That focus on individual training is ramping up all across the country, an initiative coaches hope will begin to switch the focus from the traditional American concept of the athlete and perhaps to something a bit more global in scope. Because when it comes to fostering young domestic skill players at the highest levels, the US still has ground to cover."

It’s just not in our culture right now.

Anonymous said...

Sorry 8:16 didn't see your post - I agree with you about culture.
There are creative players out there that understand for example not playing the ball back into pressure but maybe they lack some of that Athletic presence so they are not viewed as an impact player by the coach so they play it simple (which is okay) so they don't make mistakes.

Anonymous said...

Creativity in the women's (and girls') game is freaking super rare. I think for 2 reasons. Most girls don't have the quickness, balance and coordination needed to pull of the uber fine and precise movements required to produce magic on the field. As an aside the surface must be similarly regular for the ball to move predictably and make the movements possible. There are some creative players and they tend to move like 14 year old boys whose voices have just begun to break. You usually can spot these rarities immediately because they stand out among the leggy gazelles (characterized by fast straight ahead movements) as if a spot light is shining on them.

These are not necessarily players that run directly at defenses -ala Pugh and Sanchez. These are players who do the unexpected- play the unexpected ball, make an unexpected move- much to the delight and success of their teams and supporters. The see the game differently than most and they have the tools in the box to create wow moments of success.

The second reason has already been mentioned; they don't watch enough high level men's soccer. With youtube videos of Neymar's and other's like him moves and goals, there is plenty of opportunity for them beyond watching games, but how many take advantage of the readily available media?

Beyond that they are rare, even if located, I don't think our existing regime, would embrace a truly creative player within the youth program. These artists would likely be seen as a disruptive force because the leadership wouldn't know what to do with them. Remember an important metric for national midfielders is time on the ball per possession- the quicker they play it the better they are perceived. That's fine for certain circumstances, but when your team needs to break down a bunker (uh yeah Sweden) you need a magician to pull the defense out of shape and open up holes for exploitation. We didn't have that player who was good enough and we lost. The leadership should now be scouring the country for players able to break down a bunker- but are they?

Anonymous said...

853 you tube gives a very individual perspective on the ball, as does TV. Tog et the full picture you need to go to a game and watch a player. Off the ball is as important as off it. Creativity includes type of run, positioning, activity etc etc..Its no just ON the ball stuff like dribbling.

826 Individual training is not the answer to me. In fact it makes it worse. I find many girls are doing this already and they learn a move, but they cannot place its relevance in the context of a game. i think you need more small sided collective , low pressure stuff. Less win/lose scenario based training. Unfortunately, the US environment is full of W/L this game matters situations that leave little room for working on your game.Instead of doing it in the Club break, kids are playing HS. A lot of the training i see makes the feet quicker in isolation, but does not make the brain quicker in pattern recognition or other key areas.

Anonymous said...

953 I disagree to some extent. I do not think creativity is defined by off the ball movement. To me that is more soccer IQ and sometimes familiarity. I have seen very creative players fooling everyone including his own team with his ideas. Plays an amazing ball that stops dead on the ps only to have the striker's run truncated by some idea he had to hold instead of continue. The kind of creativity I believe is lacking is demonstrated on the ball. It does however require players surrounding that creative player to have sufficient soccer IQ to expect a back heel on an overlapped run they make for example.

Anonymous said...

9:53 I think that's what we have today a structured practice teaching tactics which in turn creates a very "robotic" player. The creative player more times than not will look bad because they will see the play and make the pass but the team/coach doesn't and it turns into a give away - which is a"bad" thing. Today's coaching would much rather have a kid that will run through a wall because they think they can teach them the small sided structured tactical offense - which they can but then we have a very robotic easy to predict team and you will have more countries doing what sweden did - make us break them down which we currently can't.

10:04 - I agree soccer IQ comes in all shapes and sizes and these players while stick out when given the opportunity more times than not they give the ball away because the team is not on the same page.

Also I think we have creative players in the womens game they just get lost because we prefer other tools over the mind. Imagine if we developed these creative minds instead of trying to take that away.

Anonymous said...

1246 its not an either or tho. the USA should be able to have both

Anonymous said...

7:25 - thank you for the list. Just noting that all GK's still in the system (U18, U17 and U16). And I guess that is the discussion as well, using kids for other teams as well. Why not try out more?


Anonymous said...

Relative stasis of YNT rosters is commonplace. When they do "try" an new kid, she is being judged against an existing "team" (I think its absolutely stupid to even suggest a "team" in no WC years). She will be put into an unfamiliar situation with kids who are looking to protect the status quo. They should move (nearly) entirely new rosters into and out of the system on a regular basis for non WC year age groups.

Anonymous said...

@ 1:21 - agreed.

Anonymous said...

Re: the creative player

Dont we often se this type player unwilling to work on her strength/speed/etc?

In love with the creative aspect alone, so to speak.

Anonymous said...

1131 Exactly. I feel that people talk like its either or. A creative player without the rest is just as flawed.

Anonymous said...

@September-30,8:53am

I can't believe you weren't stoned to death by these people for that brilliantly said paragraph (:👍

Anonymous said...

We're still blaming the students. When are we gonna hold the teachers accountable? If you teach them to be "Robotic" you get "Robot's".

Let's be honest here, teacher makes extra $ on skilled training. Why give the students this all at once. (Big business people)

Anonymous said...

@7:04am

My guess is your kid isn't that "creative player?" Which is fine. Just don't assist in bashing or labeling the kid & their family for trying to move on to teams that have & understand "Creative players".

And I'll correct you. A creative player without the rest isn't "just as flawed". Just ask any college coach. Any player can run fast & kick a ball at the net, not every player can bleak down a defensive line to assist in other's scoring, or taking a shot under pressure. At some point what you do for the club & coach isn't gonna matter.

Little Mia is gonna have to play without dad & Mom's influence on coach to compete at the next level.

So continue to drink the sweet punch, I must remind you of time running out. Or simply have Mia train harder & learn the game.


Anonymous said...

Games underway; no surprise about US beating Paraguay. Expect same w/ Ghana. Great job girls! It's the game vs. Japan that is the one to watch (depending on who plays for Japan & US as they may just play and not really show anything just to finish pool play and into post pool play). The post pool play in the World Cup should have some great games.

Also, good game last night w/ Spirit vs. Red Stars (won in 2nd ot by Spirit). Looking forward to Sunday's game Portland vs. Flash. Congrats to all teams for getting post season play.

Thank you Fox Sports for coverage re U17 World Cup and NWSL.

Anonymous said...

130..Any kid can run fast...I stopped reading after that. What complete rubbish

Anonymous said...

@5:29 ....Im sure you did, truth stings a little.

Anonymous said...

926 What are you talking about? Assuming a creative player isn't working on her strength and speed is ridiculous. In fact most creative players are very quick because that quickness is necessary to "sell" the defenders that she is doing something else right before she breaks their ankles. In fact mist creative players work exceptionally hard outside of formal trainings because that confidence and familiarity on the ball has taken many many hours with a ball to squire. They also spend hours watching soccer to build their soccer iq. Yes another result of their unusual passion is working to improve every aspect of their game including strength and balance to improve ball winning ability and ability to shrug off thug defenders.

You really sound like an increasingly desperate parent of an "athlete" who is not a soccer player. You probably think the creative player is a "ball hog" too because she isn't hoofing it up to your super stud athlete. No worries: There are plenty of midmajors and lower power 5s who will take her readily on their teams. College soccer is commonly pretty unsophisticated.

Anonymous said...

the sad joke about blogs, is that every comment is assumed to be biased. No one is allowed to be an objective lover of the game with an opinion. lets just say I have no dog in the fight. I am around the game a lot and see a lot of players from rec to pro. The only country that I see with this constant athlete vs creative debate is the USA. Everywhere else, they just look for good soccer players. Good can come in many different forms, but every player has a dominant skill set. Some are a bit more creative, some are a bit more athletic , but its degrees, not extremes. Any player, creative, athletic or otherwise that does not work on improving their weaknesses, will never be elite.

Anonymous said...

If you (@622) are also @926 you are a hypocrite. That 926 comment was pretty troll like. The point above yours says the same thing. Why assume a creative player is not athletic? Why also assume an athletic player has no technique? The point about other countries is interesting though probably best applied to the boys there. An athletic player with no technique will not get far. But there are slow creative players with outstanding technique who see the game in unusual ways and solve problems with unexpected solutions and who are successful. Cesc Fabregas comes to mind there. Similarly there are relatively weak players who do the same who are also successful Andres Iniesta and Oscar come to mind in that mold.

If Christian Pulisic hadn't had soccer parents to find situations that would nurture the unusual player he was/is and to shield and protect him from hose who would have tossed him away for being smaller and weaker than many others, he might have been lost as a youngster. I remember criticism of him when he played up on the classics DA some years ago. People constantly complaining about how often he was pushed off the ball. Short sighted and unsophisticated- obviously.

Anonymous said...

im not 926, but you are also missing the point, Fabregas is not slow u the absolute sense. He may be slower than say Martial, but he is not slow. Iniesta and Oscar are not weak. They may be weaker than Matic, but they are not weak. The player you mention highlight the point. They are stronger in some areas, but they are good all around players. Fabregas is not playing as much because Conte wants more strength and dynamism in midfield. Most elite soccer players are well rounded. Good at most things that pertain to their role and excellent at the things that make them stand out. A fast bad player is just that, a bad player. A skilled player can have no impact on a game. Creative, to me, means create opportunities- individual and for the team. Elite players use their gifts to do that. Pace is a gift. learning to use it is key. Being creative is also a gift, but the player has to learn how to use it. Its not that hard. and rarely does a player with one gift excel. Even if that is individual ball skill.

Anonymous said...

Fabregas is always commented upon regarding his relative slowness. Invests and Oscar for their relative strength. but whatever. I bow to your clearly greater insight and knowledge.

Anonymous said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZrcs-APRvg

a while ago, but he is not slow

Anonymous said...

Portland vs. Flash on FS2. Great game!

Anonymous said...

Dude there is a ton of commentary describing Fabregas' lack of speed as his minor weakness. Your arguing that he isn't Relatively slow is crazy. Give it up. The point originally made by some troll was that creative players don't work on their speed and strength which is of course troll fodder as any such sweeping statement is. Your point is all players have weaknesses but they are still good enough at their weak points to compete because they have some remarkable other points that make up for their relative weaknesses. So where is the disagreement. Again Fanregas' weakness is his speed. Is he fast enough to compete yes but he is again relatively slow for an EPL midfielder.

Anonymous said...

Iniesta....one of top 3 players on FCB, after Messi
Not counting the departing Xavi...
Fabregas left for a reason...

Anonymous said...

The crux of this argument is the perception ( usually of parents of less athletic kids) that somehow the athletic kid has been touched by some magic stick and does not work to be one. And therefore the child who spends time trainers learning ball rolls and rainbow flicks is somehow more "worthy" of attention. I hear it all the time ...oh that kid is "just" athletic. It is a comment that I only really here in America. Every where else a player is either good enough to compete effectively, or not. I dont beleive foot speed , in isolation, is of any real relevance in the mens game at the top level, which is why I dont really consider Cesc slow, but lets say he is and leave it at that.

The ONLY reason speed is an issue in the womens game is because the overall quality is just not there yet. Tactically and technically it is evolving but not to the point where you HAVE to have more of the total package to be effective. Girls can go a long way on athleticism alone. That is what annoys the parents of less athletic kids. In time, as the game develops, that too will change. We are seeing it already. The sprinter will have to become a much more rounded player to go further. But as of know, they can probably go further in the game than they really should

Anonymous said...

Agreed 8:08
Girls soccer is very relient on the long ball (ECNL classic) but as we develop the technical side and work on the possession side of the game, the "fast" players must adapt

Anonymous said...

808 Ah we are now on the same page. I completely agree that the technical failures of the overall pool of players at the YNT/WNT level allows for athleticism to rule the (current) day. My question is then, are those technical and athletic enough players who would raise the level of women's soccer out there in the giant country of America and just not being seen or (gasp) chosen? Or do they not yet exist?

Anonymous said...

1059 ill add to the controversy. They do exist, but when they do - take Pugh- they are often only put in roles that exploit the athletic side. I think she has great potential, but on the NT is seems to me that all she is being asked to do is run at people. They are out there and I dont think that the YNT fails to select them. In fact I think they at times go too far the other way. Bear in mind that to date, the YNT has not been about development. Its been about IDing players and winning games, especially in the WC cycles. I also think that there is a real lack of willingness to learn the game. far too much emphasis is placed on winning asap. And kids that win are told how great they ALREADY are. Where is the incentive to get better? You also get teams that are deep, well organized that play in a way that exploits the lack of others depth and ability to win games. man marking, pressing etc. Kids win games and again think THEY are great. Play HS , read the papers, ALL this ALL that there is very little negative feedback to players that are far from complete. Unless the player themselves is driven to work on the weakness, this environment is not ideal.

Usually the player has a parent with a soccer background or comes from a family where the game was part of growing up. Or lucks in to a great coach who cares about the individual development .

They do exist, but there are far fewer that there should be and I think as summarized above , until the system actual requires it, we will stay that way.

Anonymous said...

http://premiercup.bsctournament.com/tournament-info/accepted-teams-girls-2016/u17-girls/

Anonymous said...

@ 12:21 - interesting post. You can't possibly think that the transition from high school to elite level club soccer is the same. HS is about achieving something with your classmates. It's about coming back after graduation for homecoming or reunion day and reminiscing. I think any kid who plays both (high level club soccer and h.s.) knows the difference.

HS gives kids a chance to get in shape, get touches on the ball, and possibly work on some techincal skills. That's it. Not everyone on the HS team plays soccer outside of school. It's for fun.

Club should be fun too, but the level of intensity and soccer iq are much different.

Good discussion though.

Anonymous said...

Watched the rebroadcast of GE vs. CA with my daughter.

Deanne Rose (CA) who played on the Sr. CA Nat'l Team in the Olympics is awesome. GE has some nice players too.

The knock out stage play for the teams should be fun to watch.

Anonymous said...

Spaanstra is scheduled to start again at wide forward. She played the whole game against Paraguay if I remember correctly. So the experiments seem to have largely ceased. That said, she was underwhelming and the weakest of the attacking players including Kiara Pickett the right back who was outstanding. Also oddly Sophie Smith subbed in at ACM for Tagliaferri. Haven't seen that one.

Anonymous said...

Kind of surprised he isn't using more substitutes now to experiment before the tougher games begin (Japan and after).

Anonymous said...

1126 i understand your point, but being elite requires sacrifices. HS is not going to develop an Elite player. My point is if you want to play with friends, then i think most of the time you are reducing your chances of improving, especially if you are an athletic type. You can dominate HS with just that. My point was more that. HS does not really challenge a really athletic player. The player would be better of doing real technical work and forgoing it. But the system does not demand it.

Anonymous said...

I agree with your last statement 931.Do you think conversely that a smaller technical player can benefit from the physical HS experience? or is HS too much of a dangerous situation for this player and the benefit not worth the risk?

Anonymous said...

I agree with you about development, but as you pointed out and I agree, HS isn't about development. It's about competing for your school to bring them a title, if possible. Schools like that stuff. It's what bonds a class forever. Next year, it will all be different.
The kid who wants to develop is doing work outside of high school (and club), too. Anyone who wants to excel isn't relying on high school ball to get them there; unless you are in a soccer school/academy.

Anonymous said...

9:55 - I'm not 9:31, but if I could chime in; I have seen smaller, technical players do wonderfully in hs. But, yes, they do get knocked around (but do so in club as well). However, they need to have a few good players to understand what they are trying to accomplish. Otherwise, it's a wasted effort and may just frustrate them in the end. Bright side is, only a month and a half left of it.

Anonymous said...

955 I dont like labeling players. They all have to do what they think will help them get better IF that is their goal. I dont think that is the goal of many players. Most want to play with friends and have fun. They dont really understand the real effort needed to be elite. There are more than enough places in College such that its not a requirement . In time , it may be. Bringing you school a title is nice, but a little worthless now. recruiting is done outside of HS. I know HS stars who struggle to make any impact in Club soccer. The top end of the game is going to get to point where quality rules, and to be elite you are going to have to work really hard. HS will not really offer that. I mean work hard on your weaknesses ..not beat up on inferior players :)

Anonymous said...

Peeked in on the US vs. Ghana game. Only a 1 goal game (US). And Ghana is getting a bunch of shots; quality ones. Wow!

Anonymous said...

Spoke too soon....level 1-1 US vs. Ghana. Wow again.

Anonymous said...

Ghana is playing very well, very organized and really good second balls. Quite impressive.

Anonymous said...

US getting man handled in the counter attacks. Not organized in the back.

Anonymous said...

not a huge shock. I dont feel the USSF challenge the players enough. There is real competition WITHIN the USA . Instead they seek easy wins vs inferior nations that are willing to travel to the USA. As I keep saying. REAL athletes will trouble them as will teams with REAL soccer IQ ...

Anonymous said...

920 |USA Dont have that luxury. They are not a top athletic team and not a top technical team. They dont have the very best athletes on that team and technically they are ok, but not great. They should beat Ghana, but it wont be easy

Anonymous said...

Well, Ghana is now winning 2-1.

Anonymous said...

Yikes, almost 3-1. US may not get out of group play if they loose this.

Smith is actually playing well.

Anonymous said...

Oh heck with work. It's only 2 mins left. I gotta watch. :) Very exciting.

Anonymous said...

+4 stoppage time added.

Anonymous said...

Wow....i am in shock. Ghana wins.

Anonymous said...

Hopefully, they get it together and beat Japan. Go USA! When does the U-20 WC start?

Anonymous said...

im not. If the US is in a track meet, they dont have the horses OR the real technical know how to handle it. If they match up with say Japan, they can sit back and counter. The can win that game with the breaks. I reckon I could pick a team from the rest that would give BJ Snows group a really hard time. Athletes are really hard to play against unless you are really really good technically and tactically. When you play weaker teams at home more often that not, you tend to get a false sense of security . When the media hype is massive , you think you are better than you are. When you are doing 20 second media spots and your every move is being tweeted, its hard to stay grounded. These kids are good, but they need help, not hype.

Anonymous said...

I agree they are good but not great. Japan beat Ghana 5-0 because they are at a different level. I do see them bunkering against japan and hoping for a counter. Does that make them Cowards?

Anonymous said...

I was surprised at the lack of tactical knowledge. Looked like a lack of communication in the back, including from the keeper. Haven't they ever played teams that high press? Didn't looked prepared for it.

Also, kind of surprised that they were celebrating instead of kicking in a ball laying in front of the goal. Soccer basics play until you hear a whistle. And this is the national team. Shame.

Hope they can recover for a big game against Japan. Let's go girls! You can do this!

Anonymous said...

11:15 - i would not call Brazil weak, but US didn't win either game against them.

Anonymous said...

113 I would. Lets see how they do in this event. But lets say you are right of the 20 or so games played as prep for this, how many are against challenging opposition? Almost EVERY GAME should be. Play boys, play older girls, mix and match the teams in Camp. I cannot help but think that this group came in on a long unbeaten streak, but vs who? I also believe that some of these kids are not battle tested.

Japan are a different proposition. i dont think US will bunker but they will be playing a team that has qualified and wants possession of the ball. The us can score off a mistake in possession and will be more athletic. They wont be more skilled, but its a better match up. They will have to win, or this will be a really sad indictment on BJ Snow and his methods/ ability in selecting and producing a team. He has had a few chances now and i really dont think he has gotten the best out of this group yet.

Anonymous said...

He went with athletic individuality. And they weren't athletic enough or individually good enough to win. He should be fired for a losing approach to this team in player selection and tactics.

Anonymous said...

2:01 - I agree with you. They should play better competition when gearing up. I get using weaker competition to work on moving players, getting some confidence, etc. But, I'm not a fan of touting it when you beat a lesser skilled team. You did exactly what you should have done. I prefer the challenge of tough competition and so do real competitors. THAT is what makes you better.

Frankly, I am surprised they don't play some college teams?

Maybe they will bring more kids in for future trys. Why not?

I'm not loosing hope on these ladies. Go USA!!!

Anonymous said...

You play the game to win however you can at the levels we are talking about. The problem with the WNT game is that now the rest of the world is playing and investing so winning will be more difficult. It is easier for them (the rest of the world) to field a team that can defend and counter, the better nations can create and attack. Ghana did what they had to do defend and pray for a play that they can finish vs a better opponent. As long as we continue to pick players that don't understand the game but can run through a wall and juggle one million times we will drop many more games like this since we will never be able to breakdown a defense playing 1v1. The club coaches think they can make a player out of anyone until that stops and they actually start working with the kids that get it nothing will change. I hope that the GDA gives the right kids an opportunity to develop.

Anonymous said...

I hope so too.

Don't you think some of the progress throughout the world is the US bringing in a lot of international kids for the US college soccer /academic education? Years ago, the amount of international students/players at top programs were not as great as it is currently.

Anonymous said...

http://equalizersoccer.com/2016/10/04/uswnt-u-17-womens-world-cup-loss-ghana-danger-not-advancing/

Anonymous said...

"US record at the FIFA U-17 Women's World Cup:
2008: Runners-up
2010: Did not qualify
2012: Group-stage exit."

Equalizer Soccer

With this record, is it Snow or overall US philosophy at U17? Just throwing it out there for discussion...

Anonymous said...

10:17 I agree - I think the UEFA u19 event has a lot of scouting and will only get more. The younger kids will have even less of a chance to get some money to decrease the tuition a bit in the coming years.

But sticking to our u17 WNT - 2014 - Did not qualify.
4 World Cups
2 DNQ
1 group Stage exit
1 runner up 8 years ago.

This is just showing our lack of dominance at the youth level. I don't think it's Snow or the Philosophy - I think it's our Elite Youth Clubs getting a bye. They should be thrown under the bus as they are the ones developing or should I say not developing our youth but they still get their pay day for doing nothing.

Anonymous said...

922..Ghana dominated the game. At one stage they had outshot ythe US 17-3. This was no counter smash and grab

1114..Snow is a huge part of this. He is the philosophy at U17. No one else.

318.. This is the end product of competition based platforms (ECNL, NPL etc) that focus on team development to win games as opposed to player development to create better, more versatile players. They do what creates $$ and that is winning games by any means. No one is really incentivized to develop players.

Anonymous said...

Girls in Ghana mature faster, do they not?

Good game.

Anonymous said...

For the poster above, 11/14 US U20 WNT meets France for it's first pool play game in their upcoming World Cup competition.

Anonymous said...

Haha 10:21
Love it

Anonymous said...

@10:21 & 5:57

Same person we are sure of this. You are a complete IDIOT!

We communicate soccer, and you Troll. Very sad.

Anonymous said...

I think they could possibly pull out a win against Japan. However, Japan will punish loose first touches and errant passes. The difference between the Japanese team that beat Ghana and the one who lost to the USA (in NTC 2/16) is that Japan now finishes a higher percentage of its chances. I think I read that Japan switched up its lineups in the first 2 games getting players rest. I would think it would be high on eliminating the USA from the knockouts so it won't see them again. Guessing they will put the A team out.

USA should switch out Spaanstra and put in Smith. Leave Tagliaferri in all game at ACM. Pinto at 8 and tell her to win and take care of the ball. Howell at 6 to play simple (as she does) and keep possession. The forwards need more movement off the ball and heads up combinations in the attacking third to penetrate an organized defense. Individual heroics might work against a lesser physical team, but be assured japan has an answer in store.

Unfortunately, I am sure we will regress into dribble down the flank and cross into the box (to their credit they are trying to generally pick out a runner) simple game. Need outside backs that can and will also defend. We got killed by Mustafah because we didn't put out an answer to stop her. Should have been man marking her with a second defender to close immediately if she managed to come up with the ball. Switching sides for our young left footed "back" Weisner when Pickett failed to manage her was not intelligent. Weisner is an attacking or midfield player only recently turned into an attack minded outside back at the NT level. Someone needs to teach her how to defend before she is our answer to great wide forwards.

Cannot let Japan have too much of the ball or go home.

Anonymous said...

It is quite evident Mr Snow has some quality on the bench not getting proper time

Expect a lineup switch in at least 2 spots, though I would consider as many as 4.

Anonymous said...

941 ..US strategy is flawed. pick a few outside backs who can actually defend. not wingers. Pick some kids who may be of use when facing athletes - shocking concept I know. The sheer arrogance of assuming you will ALWAYS face either A bunkering team OR B japan is alarming. This roster is full of similar player with very little variety/Plan B.

No matter what the result vs Japan, Snow should be fired for saying - we had difficulty vs their direct style. Japan give you fits and they are a patient build up team, so what style are you prepared for?Please tell us? 2 yrs, numerous camps and million of dollars spent to hear a coach say he was unprepared for direct soccer?

The problem with your analysis is you ASSUME that the team you saw earlier @ NTC cared about winning those games. Maybe they actually were preparing for this event. Something the US clearly has done badly. The US has several Mustafahs on teams around the country. And we were not prepared to face that? Why? btw you are basically calling a fast physical wide player great.

1139 .. please tell us who these better options are? As I see it he has his best XI out there and they got badly outplayed by a team that has spent a fraction of what he has.

Anonymous said...

I am confused. I am 941 are you arguing with me? I don't see the disagreement? I think I said they need outside backs that can defend and that Weisner is a converted player (as are pretty much all of their outside backs)
I think I said Snow should be fired
Mustafah was more than just an average fast physical wide player perhaps we do disagree there.
I do assume that kids on the field are trying to impress the coaches and win games. I do also assume that both teams were preparing for the WC and that there might be some evaluation and experimentation going on.

You are really oddly acting like I have said some outrageous things when in fact we are largely in agreement.

Anonymous said...

Anyone think there will be any line up changes for tomorrow's game? I predict smith starts instead of spaanstra at wide forward and Spaanstra moved to outside back. Weisner off

Anonymous said...

Wow. A bunch of upsets yesterday in college.

Anonymous said...

Some teams and college coaches aren't making WAGS due to the hurricane, evacuations, etc. Best wishes to all our soccer peers affected by this weather event. Safety first.

Anonymous said...

WAGS Girls U16

SHOWCASE I
2 PREMIER SC STRIKERS
1 BRYC ELITE ACADEMY 01/02

Anonymous said...

So BJ remains committed to youth. Unless injured, I thought Taglaiferri was a 2 cycle player to gain experience for big games like this? Replaced today by Caniff .

Hope it works, but an amazing decision in my opinion

Anonymous said...

11:58 I am a little down on this game we are up 1-0 but i'm not happy about it. We scored on a goalie assist play talk about direct! Would Hope Solo call our girl's cowards? I am worried for the future of our game. We have the number 1 WNT in the world and I am watching Japan control the ball and the game and our girl's more worried about defending. Remember some of these girls will eventually grow into the 1st team. With a player pool like we have and the ECNL hype machine great coaching that we have we are playing a counter game what the F?

Anonymous said...

1:02 back again - what the hell was that we were dominated in the 2nd half. From HS to Club to College to our NT it's the same style of play we just have better athletes as you go up the pyramid at the end of the day no creativity. This has nothing to do with Snow.

Our club coaches are not teaching the kids the game they are teaching them how to play with cones.

Anonymous said...

Epic fail on many levels. US 17's out again. No communication in the back. At times parked the bus in the first half, but when having to get back in, girls were not organized. While offense scores, defense wins games. You have to start in the back to open up the top.

Anonymous said...

3:31 Agreed - I'm 1:02 and 2:03 - you need the back 4 then a quality #6 to play out of the back and under control. Once you have that the attack will flow much smoother.

The #6 to me is the most important field player even more than the #10.

Anonymous said...

I am also looking at GK re this. While she made some good saves, had the communication and organization been much better most of those would have never even been shots or would have been directed as an easier potential save. The better tactical keepers today are able to move the pieces as the play develops. None of that took place.

Anonymous said...

Agreed 4:12 this is what makes Hope Solo so effective. That is her bread and butter as well as good reflexes.

Will be interesting how this all plays out. I had them at least getting out of pool play. U20's start soon. GO USA!

Anonymous said...

3:41 & 4:12 agree. Until the US starts to look for players like that, it will be the same result over and over. While watching Groundhog Day is funny the first couple of times, it gets old. And, then, you stop watching completely.

Anonymous said...

DIdn't Japan not play all of its starters too resting them getting ready for post pool play?

Anonymous said...

Shame about US. The knock out stage looks very interesting. Japan vs. England. That should be very good. Several good matchups.

Anonymous said...

I am STUNNED you want to give BJ a pass. He is responsible for a large part of this. 2 YEARS to build a team and they go in to a big game with no plan. The get beaten by a direct team, beaten by a tactical team. What else is left? Do you folks really think that we had the best players there? You take kids ...why? Most of them never looked like taking the sweats off. Criticize the keeper ? She was the best player the US had. Some of the US players are hyped well beyond ability and it really showed. JPN wanted the ball, the US did not. JON created chances thru movement, passing and skill, the US did not. JPN did not panic, the US did. JPN had kids who understood time , space and movement , the US did not.
As i have said many time on this board. The ECNl et al are simply tournament platforms. The Clubs can buy in to that OR they can try and create real player. almost NONE of them choose to develop. Thye want to win games and boy does it show. The 20 or so kids that went to this re good kids and have potential to be good players, but we don't need the massive hype, the build up, the pages of bios about how great they are. Lets judge that after the vent is over.They have been let down in so many ways by adults who have no idea what they are doing.

The sad part is I cannot see where the change is going to come from

USWNT - Fail at the Olympics
USU17 - Fail at te WC
US U20 - Not looking good

The trend is not good.

Anonymous said...

Who was giving Snow a pass? He picked the talent (or didn't) and played (or didn't play) them correctly. And, he did (or didn't) develop them correctly. I don't think anyone will give the coach a pass. But, the picked/trained girls have to execute. And they didn't either. Not a good US showing for sure.

Anonymous said...

They have to start bringing in kids that are technically and tactically savvy. You need both. One isn't good enough any more. And, maybe forego the thinking that "this one should be good because her parents are this." At this age, pick a kid because a kid has something; not because she could have something; that's U12 way of thinking.

Anonymous said...

If you don't believe that Jaelin Howell is there because her dad has a super bowl ring you are delusional. She looked big and slow against the Japanese and hardly touched the ball. Half the kids are there because of their club coach is an age group "assistant" or their regional NTC program is run by a full time ussoccer "technical director or coach (Colorado connection). Even though they don't have nearly the top 20 age appropriate kids in Jordan, they still have such a huge pool in the USA from which to choose that a mix of top 100 players in the USA should be able to make it out of the group. Especially after all the opportunity in training and events that this "team" enjoyed. That's a systemic epic fail. Heads should roll, but will they?

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