Has Ironbound really been in this age group of late? A great club with a long history for sure. But I can't say I've seen a decent team from them in this age group for years. My guess is that the kids from Newark somehow migrated to Den of Lions, right?
"Sounds like more TSF propaganda..."Couldn't be MF or EB "propaganda" just as easily?Take it anyway you want. But the message isn't going to change unless the Jeff Cup changes the flights.
I know how arrogant TSF is so this sounds like them for sure!
Yes some ironbound kids did migrate to Den of Lions but recently alot of players from DOL migrated to CSA
Can't say I've caught a lot of TSF arrogance over the years. I mean, really, what could they possibly be arrogant about? They've been also-rans in this age group for as long as I can remember.
You're absolutely right in that they have nothing to be arrogant about but comparing their players to world cup players is one example of their arrogance. And how about declaring themselves winners of a college showcase because they're in a higher flight.sh
The schedule for Jeff Cup and who each team is playing has been posted
"And how about declaring themselves winners of a college showcase because they're in a higher flight."That wasn't anyone from TSF. It was me.And along with MF and EB, the are the NJ winners at the Jeff Cup because they were placed higher than other NJ teams which is what really matters at this point.Jumping to wrong conclusions about anonymous posts is a bad practice on boards like these.
It's interesting that the Jeff Cup doesn't break the 12 teams in each flight down into groups of 4 for the purpose of standings. I guess the team with the most points and best goal differential amongst all 12 in each flight will be awarded the "championship?" But that seems pretty random as there are really 3 groups of 4 in the Elite and Superior flights who will each face completely different competition. And the Platinum flight is even weirder with no clearly defined groups (Ex: Gottschee and Mt. Olive play two of the same opponents but a different 3rd opponent as they don't play each other?)Anyway, here are the NJ teams' opponents...ELITE:MF BLACK/Calverton(MD)/Storm SA(GA)/Pleasant Valley(NYE)EB/Piedmont Triad(NC)/Carolina Elite(SC)/Coral Gables(FL)TSF/Lyons Township(IL)/Lockport(NYW)/BRYC(VA)SUPERIOR:NJ FORCE/CASL Red(NC)/VA Legacy(VA)/Pachuca(MD)PARSIPPANY/Olney Rangers(MD)/Lake Norman(NC)/FC Fredrick(MD)PLATINUM:GOTTSCHEE/Boston Bolts(MA)/World Class(NYE)/Springfield(VA)MT OLIVE/Springfield(VA/Boston Bolts(MA)/Albertson(NYE)CLASSIC:FC COPA/FC Stars(MA)/Penn Fusion Predators(PAE)/VA Rush(VA)MF BLUE/Madison 56ers(WI?)/VA Rush(VA)/WCWAA Black(NC)Good luck to all the NJ teams!
It's a showcase, so typically the 12-team brackets are divided into three 4-team groups. At that stage, the groups are independent of one another, so you are only competing against the 3 other teams in your subgroup.For GotSoccer purposes (apparently a big thing in the Northeast), the top finisher of each group of four will receive championship points minus an adjustment of roughly 10%. This is to compensate for the fact that no semifinals or finals take place. Keep in mind that only the top finisher receives points, so if two teams finish 2-0-1 with a tie in their game against one another, the one with the bigger goal differential gets the points, and the other team goes home empty.When the brackets/subgroups don't fit into this neat little mold, it is common to have 3-team divisions crossover to play other 3-team divisions. This way, even though the teams may not face one another, they will all have common opponents to measure their success against.
Thanks for the info on the points. And yes, they remain a big deal here in the Northeast (at least) as they play a clear role in determining flighting for these showcase tournaments.
Actually, I was making an assumption about the subgroups based on how I've seen it done most often, but I believe I was wrong. Since the Jefferson standings are calculated using 6 points for a win, 3 points for a tie, and points for goals scored and shutouts, they will probably be in groups of 12 as shown with the champion, finalist and semifinalists determined by total points.I've never been a fan of this format. I remember seeing one huge showcase with 30+ teams all in one group. At least 5 teams went 3-0...so you could go undefeated and still wind up being a semifinalist or even a quarterfinalist. Not fair unless the groupings were very evenly balanced. You could do really well against a couple of very strong teams and not get rewarded for it because an improperly seeded team rolls over 3 cupcakes.
Brackets not out yet but what about Manhattan kick off classic. Could be exciting this year if it doesn't get cancelled.
Cedar Stars Newark has a strong team.One of the teams to look out for this season.
New players at Cedar Stars Newark? Or are you seeing a big improvement from the team that's been in place there?
Cedar Stars Newark pick up DOL players and just now 2 best players from East Brunswick. 2 great midfielders.
With all due respect, moving from EB to Cedar Stars Newark at this point seems like an ill-advised mover to me. But, hey, I'll look forward to seeing them play some time late next fall when they've had enough time to promote themselves to a high level of competition.
But I'm going to take your word that all these great players are heading for Cedar Stars Newark...to compete in the Maps Elite North division.
Looks like Annandale has a good field of teams as well. 80 teams at U16 and a solid top Showcase. Impressive!http://www.gotsport.com/asp/directors/tournament/vieweventteamscleanb.asp?EventID=45307&Group=Boys_16
They must play at Cedar Stars Newark. They are accepted to a very good high school and must to play at Cedar Stars Newark.
They all got accepted to a very good high school? What high school?
I believe he may be talking about St Benedicts in Newark. Not a bad jump as I believe it is a pretty good school. And their soccer ranking cannot be overlooked. Didn't Tab Ramos also attend St B's?
St. Benedict's is a power high school when it comes to soccer everyone knows that, but in terms of academics, I heard from parents whose kids attended there that the academics is not that good. I heard that from multiple parents.
Depends on what school you are coming from. It's all relative.
Okay, the St. Benedict's angle adds a lot of credibility to the Cedar Stars Newark angle. There's a known relationship between the two (that includes Tab Ramos) so I'm starting to buy that this team may turn out to be the juniors (and some seniors and frosh) from the St. Benedict's team. And if so, then yes they should be pretty darned good.
"Looks like Annandale has a good field of teams as well..."Thanks for posting the Annandale link. But it looks to me like they've stretched the top flight to include a number of teams that have no good reason to be included.Ironbound? Seriously? Weren't we just talking about their insignificance in this age group? So what kind of tournament would "top flight" the Navigators? One that has been given poor direction IMO.And Bracket C looks surprisingly weak to me. Easy (and undeserved?} points for one of those teams IMO. Hopefully the team from MI will be decent.Don't be surprised by some 7-0 scores in this one!
I should shut up...but I won't.Olney Rangers and Northern Steel in the 2nd flight at Annandale while Ironbound is in the top flight?I can only hope they know something that I don't.
To be fair though, there are a number of very good teams going to Annandale.After what I would think will be an ugly group stage, there should be some very exciting semis and a great final.
One final (I promise) thought about Annandale. Ironbound may not be the worst team in the top flight as Logan is there as well.I really will shut up now and thanks for bearing with my rants!
I know I said I'd shut up, but...I'm picking Cedar Stars Newark (aka the St. Benedict's HS team) to win the 4th flight at Annandale!Call me crazy!
The Accepted teams for Manhattan have been posted.I'm guessing they'll have an 8 team top flight and Dix Hills, Yonkers, Rooney, TSF, Manhattan Villa, FC Florida and NYSC all look like likely selections for this to me. There are plenty of options for the other couple of slots though including ISA, Revolition Utd., Pleasant Valley and maybe even Gottschee (NJ) or Parsippany?NJ teams are:PDA (Rooney & Jinky)TSFGottscheeStallions (Madrid & Santos)Parsippany (Blue and White)Mt Olive (A, B and C)WestfieldTorpedoesSDFCJS Boca Jrs.Arsenal MaximusGood luck to all the NJ teams!
"To be fair though, there are a number of very good teams going to Annandale.After what I would think will be an ugly group stage, there should be some very exciting semis and a great final."U16 and up rarely play semifinal and final rounds in these 3 day tournaments. While a final is possible, I would expect three games only for these teams.
They've posted the flights now for Annandale and it appears that they plan to have a 12 team top flight with semis and a final as I suspected.http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=38656&GroupID=355294&Gender=Boys&Age=15Please note that they have this posted as the U15 age group but that appears to be an error as all the teams included are U16.
"They've posted the flights now for Annandale..."Nevermind. My bad.The links to the accepted teams and schedules I found are from last year. Sorry for being a dummy.
Looks like EDP leagues are still changing as I noticed that PDA Rooney was added to 1st Div Central and Parsippany B-team was added to 2nd Div Central.
Is everyone's team being hit by this birth year reorganization? My son's team is. I'm not exactly sure why they're doing this but it will heavily impact this age group, especially the late 99's who will miss their entire u17 season. Does anyone have answers as to why they're doing this and who's being affected?
Regarding the move to birth year, it does rock the boat for just about all age groups. But it really has to be done at some point and sooner is better than later. Simply put, the August to June thing was a mistake that was made long ago and, as we try to become more in line with the rest of the world, needs to be addressed.As far as the depth of the affect, it will be much easier to bear for bigger clubs who have strong talent across a span of age groups. For them, "1st half of the year" players will lose their older teammates but will pick up a younger "2nd half of the year" group that are relatively capable.Smaller clubs who have just one strong age group will be hit hard as their teams will be broken in two. I'd imagine this will result in plenty of migration and that bigger clubs will end up picking up a lot of this talent.As far as this particular age group goes, it's probably easier to deal with than for younger ages in that the players are all physically mature at this point and they are used to playing with and against opponents of older ages. For many younger age groups, players will face a requirement to "play up" which may or may not be a good thing for them. Harsh? Yes. But necessary? Yes again.
As far as college recruitment goes, junior year is probably the most important year for players. I don't think that missing their u17 seasons will make a difference in this regard, although it may be more difficult for college coaches who now have to watch 2 different age groups to scout players.
"... although it may be more difficult for college coaches who now have to watch 2 different age groups to scout players."I think this is a very good point. This has already been a concern for current U16 juniors. But it will be much more of an issue once the age change is completed.
Current U16 juniors probably wish this had happened a few years ago so that College coaching staffs had already become accustomed to watching two different age groups of juniors. The current ones have struggled to get coaches to pay attention to their age group at this point as most players are still sophomores.So, in the long run, everybody should benefit (including college coaches who may be able to justify another body at key tourneys)
"So, in the long run, everybody should benefit (including college coaches who may be able to justify another body at key tourneys)"mesmSometimes I spew out thoughts and then think better of them over time...and this is one of those cases. Adjustments to recruiting budgets are probably not all that readily realized. So the fact that colleges may need more bodies to cover juniors playing in 2 different age groups at showcases may take some time to be fully understood and financed.But I still have no doubt that while the age group change will be harsh on some, in the long run it is for the best for all.Good topic! Thanks for bringing this up!
The flights for the Manhattan tournament have been posted. NJ TEAMSFirst: Rooney and TSFSecond: Gottschee Stallions (Madrid) and Parsippany AThird: SDFC, Mt Olive A, Arsenal MaxFourth: Boca Jrs and TorpedoesFifth: Westfield and JinkySixth: Stallions (Santos) and Mt Olive BSeventh: Mt Olive CEighth: Parsippany B
Also the brackets for NJ Cup have been posted:Super group: http://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?tid=462021&tclass=Boys%20U16%20Super%20GroupPremier Group: http://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?tid=462021&tclass=Boys%20U16%20Premier%20GroupIf the links don't work, you can access the brackets through newjerseycup.net
Big games in the first round: sdfc plays parsippany so we will finally see if they are a team to be reckoned with. Gotschee plays mf blue which could be exciting. Tsf plays the other parsippany team. And then we could have some excellent match ups in the qfinals because east Brunswick vs tsf and sdfc or psc vs matchfit black. In my opinion, the right side of the bracket is much harder and it looks as though on the left side, the only nice team is matchfit. However, if we learned anything from last year (mainland) expect the unexpected.
" However, if we learned anything from last year (mainland) expect the unexpected."I hear you! I'm picking the Elizabeth YSC Hurricanes cause I've never heard of them before!
"Looks like Annandale has a good field of teams as well..."Thanks for posting the Annandale link. But it looks to me like they've stretched the top flight to include a number of teams that have no good reason to be included.Ironbound? Seriously? Weren't we just talking about their insignificance in this age group? So what kind of tournament would "top flight" the Navigators? One that has been given poor direction IMO.And Bracket C looks surprisingly weak to me. Easy (and undeserved?} points for one of those teams IMO. Hopefully the team from MI will be decent.Don't be surprised by some 7-0 scores in this one!I have a feeling C is going to be more competitive than you think. And who knows about a random team from MI. I agree that in D you're going to see some blowouts though. Maybe even A.
"However, if we learned anything from last year (mainland) expect the unexpected."Sure, but I still believe MF is the class of NJ right now (PDA also but they're not in NJ Cup), and the MF Black team is going to win this cup.
The random Michigan team was a solid National League team last year. Middle of the pack anyway, but they finished above BRYC and Baltimore Celtic. I would say they are the favorite in their group.
Any thoughts on the Champions League which has already started? Not much in terms of showing for NJ other than MF Black and PDA Rooney.http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=48605&Gender=Boys&Age=16
"Any thoughts on the Champions League which has already started?"Here's a thought: How the heck is the Hauppauge Blue Crew in the "Elite" Blue group? Okay, that was a question and not a thought.Could anyone who's "Blue" have gotten in? MF Blue or Parsippany Crew Blue? Sorry, more questions.Okay, here's a thought: A Hauppauge Blue Crew vs Parsippany Crew Blue matchup would be confusing.
https://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=50022&Gender=Boys&Age=16Manhattan tourney outside
To me, Rooney's tough match in the top flight at the Manhattan Kick Off looks like the host club's team. I'd be disappointed if they didn't win their first two against PDB and ISA and impressed if they beat Villa.And also in the top flight, TSF gets FC Florida first followed by Dix Hills and then Yonkers. I think they'll have done well if they can get a draw out of those three.In the second flight Gottshcee and Parsippany have Stallions and Northport before they face each other. I'd be disappointed if they both weren't 2-0 when they play. Stallions are in the same boat as TSF.Can't say I have a good feel for any of the other flights.
What teams do you think will make to quarter, semi, and finals of state cup?
DOL vs. Gottschee (I think MF Blue vs Gottschee could go either way however)Mainland vs. Copa EB vs Parsippany (Again TSF vs parsippany could go either way)MF Black vs. SDFCDOL vs MainlandEB vs. MF BlackDOL vs. MFMF WinnerAnyone else got thoughts?
You think Parsippanys b team is going to beat TSF?
I disagree with DOL because look at their performance on the most recent tournament they had this weekend. So I say gottschee v. Matchfit for finals
I think today's BIG news was "C" over "B" by a score of 5-4 in the "Mt. Olive Derby" at DTS.
"You think Parsippanys b team is going to beat TSF?"I have no idea why I thought that was their A team. Of course TSF is gonna win that. I meant the SDFC vs Parsippany game which I think SDFC is going to win.
Speaking of DTS I just looked at those results and they are far from what I would have expected. Parsippany B finishes the group over Den of Lions? And NJ Force? Without giving up a goal the entire tournament? Weird stuff. Either DOL had a steep decline or the Parsippany B team is much better than what I expected.
Parisppany used their A team for the DTS tournament this weekend
Of course, I should have guessed. I really hate when teams do that. Drops easy points into a lesser team's pocket.
"Of course, I should have guessed. I really hate when teams do that. Drops easy points into a lesser team's pocket."I hear your point. But I think that's the point entirely.Simply put, clubs who field new teams in an established age group suddenly need a whole new point fix. Let's not kid ourselves as points are probably the most important determiner in tournament flighting. So if the "B" team is at least decent, they need to collect some points pronto so as to avoid the time it takes to build them up against lesser competition. When I think of it this way I can get over it. And under different circumstances, I had no real problem with MF sending a bunch of players from the new "Blue" team to Disney to play with a couple of the "Black" team's players (assuming this story is true) either. I guess I see "picking your points" as a luxury afforded when your club fields more than one team.
Well the MF case is different, since they sent their "lesser" team players to play for their "A" team. If they're good enough to play at a tournament like Disney then I really have no problem with that. The Parsippany case is sending their better players to accumulate unearned points for their B team. Although I know a ton of clubs do that, its essentially cheating the system in my mind. The B team should have to collect points for themselves just like every other team out there.
Maybe they can enter every tournament around to collect points. Isn't that cheating the system as well?
Maybe not cheating. But probably pretty expensive.
"Maybe they can enter every tournament around to collect points. Isn't that cheating the system as well?" Why would this be cheating? If you don't care about the cost and have a good team, then it is definitely better to play a lot of tournaments and get more exposure to college coaches. If you aren't good, then you're not gonna get points, simple as that. On the other hand, sending out your A team to collect points for your B team is I believe out of line. What if Real Madrid were to send out their first-team players to play for their youth academy teams? Would that be considered out of bounds?Obviously we are not in La Liga here. But my point is that (not to pick on Parsippany in any way), the Parsippany B team will get a lot of undeserved points. I don't know if they are a decent team or not, but tournament directors will look at their results and say, "Hey, this team tied with the best team in NJ, and beat a top 15 team. Maybe they deserve a higher flighting."
I don't see that as a problem. Clubs with multiple teams at the same age group move players around. The important thing is exposure to college coaches. In my opinion, every player at the club deserves the same chance. They're paying the same money. We shouldn't be overly concerned with points. Is the goal preparing players for college play or getting the most points?
" Is the goal preparing players for college play or getting the most points?"Isn't this a "Catch 22" though? College play requires the eyes of college coaches and higher flights at showcases better one's chances of this. So with points determining flights...
Points, points and more points. Me need points.
Here's a thought. Make a highlight tape of your child and send it to college coaches. No points needed.
"Here's a thought. Make a highlight tape of your child and send it to college coaches. No points needed."Highlight tapes help get eyes on a player. But do you really think a coach doesn't want to see players in person? I think highlight reels are the bait to get a coach come see an actual game.So both highlight reels and points are helpful.
USSDA teams don't collect points but their players are the first to be recruited by college coaches.
"USSDA teams don't collect points but their players are the first to be recruited by college coaches."Thanks Captain Obvious!But here are some numbers to consider:There are 79 USSDA teams fielded in the U15/16 age group. Assuming 25 players rosters for this team, there are approximately of 1,975 players involved on a national level. And with this age group covering 2 birth years, that means about 1,000 players per HS class.There are 820 NCAA College teams when D1 (205), D2 (205) and D3 are combined. Assuming the same 25 player roster, that means a total of 20,500 NCAA players. Some of these are foreigners and the estimate I found on this was 12.1% which would mean about 2,500.So if you take out the foreign players, you're left with a total of about 18,000 Americans across 4 classes which breaks down to about 4,500 per class.So of these 4,500 American players, less than 1,000 could have come from USSDAs. The remaining 3,500 come from club teams.So, aside from those who mistakenly think their poop doesn't smell, points matter.
"Hmmm, points"Hmmm, math! I'm not surprised that this may be a new concept for you.And for any other snooty USSDA folks, here's another thing to consider. My son grew up in a community along with 3 other "serious" players with the other three all going the Academy route. One of them has a chance to play for the US National team as I have no doubt that Klinsmann at least has heard his name. Another has committed to a D3 school with an incredible academic record so good for him! The 3rd looks like he'll end up playing D3 as well. My son is in the process of honing down interest from a number of D1 schools. He will play D1 without doubt.I paid more for it for sure. But at the club level, my son has managed to make himself more interesting to D1 schools than half of the Academy players he grew up with. And points have helped out a lot in this process.
Points, points, points, points. More points, more math. Points got my kid into a D1. Yeah points!
3.03Your argument is absurd! Your son's a good player. good for him. Points prove nothing about him personally. They're awarded to a team. He's the same player with or without points. Why are you so obsessed with points? I've never read a college profile about a player mention the amount of points his team earned.
Cedar Stars Newark is putting on a show in Anandale. Watch out for them!
A good day for Newark all around as Ironbound got a top flight win at Annandale to go along with a draw with Pachuca.But the lopsided results that looked likely to me at Annandale came to pass with both Pipeline and Saverna Park showing they have no business in the top flight of a strong event. They combined for 4 losses, scoring a combined 2 goals while conceding a whopping 20. Not a good day for Logan either as they're also in over their heads in the top flight here (despite being in a much easier group than Pipeline or Saverna).STA and Gottschee's B team each got a win and took a loss in the 2nd flight at Annandale. And in Manhattan's top flight, TSF took one on the chin from FC Florida while Rooney murdered a PDB team that also shouldn't be in a top flight at any good tournament.In the second flight, Parsippany beat up Northport while Gottschee edged Stallions.It was like Opening Day today! Nice to see the boys outside again!
Surprise of the day was Yonkers 4-1 over Dix Hills.
Why does DoL play in so many crappy tournaments?They played DTS last weekend and had to think was going to be an easy win (even though it didn't turn out that way for them). But with good competition available at both Manhattan and Annandale this weekend, they've apparently decided to sit these two out.Next weekend they'll miss the Jefferson Cup in and will play the likes of North Plainfield and Buckingham Utd. at the MAPS Spring Challenge.It doesn't appear to be about budget or travel as Manhattan and MAPS Challenge cost about the same and neither require hotels. As a matter of fact, Manhattan's closer to home. So why pass on the more competitive tournament and then play easy marks the following weekend instead?It would be nice to see NJ's #1 ranked team actually challenge themselves instead of looking to pick the low hanging fruit all the time.
"February 10, 2016 at 1:19 AM ...it looks to me like they've stretched the top flight (at Annandale)to include a number of teams that have no good reason to be included.Ironbound? ...what kind of tournament would "top flight" the Navigators? One that has been given poor direction IMO.And Bracket C looks surprisingly weak to me. Easy (and undeserved?} points for one of those teams IMO. Hopefully the team from MI will be decent.Don't be surprised by some 7-0 scores in this one!"While I'll admit that Ironbound surprised me at Annandale yesterday, I don't think I'm the only one. But, in general, I'd say my read about this one back on February 10th was pretty accurate.Brackets A and B here each have three very good teams in Fewster, North Utd. and LDC (in A) and Montco, Baltimore Celtic and BRYC (in B). The fourth teams in these two groups (Pipeline and Saverna Park) are nothing more than punching bags here. And while I was exaggerating about "7-0" scores, yesterday we saw an 8-2 and a pair of 4-0 results in these groups.And Group C is pretty weak. Calverton is a good team and will likely win this group. But I wouldn't like their chances at all in either Groups A or B. So their chances of some cheap points here still look good.A number of very good teams here. About 8 of them. So splitting the 16 team top flight into a first and second flight shouldn't have made scheduling any more difficult and would have made this a much better competition.
Cheap points? Get over yourself. Calverton ended up finishing 3rd in that "weak" group. So are you going to read them their last rites along with Pipeline and Serverna Park? Give the organizers some credit for putting together a pretty balanced and competitive top flight. Yes, Pipeline and Serverna Park were severely overmatched, but there was a lot of parity among the rest.
Forgive my mistake on Calverton who laid an egg today. It happens. So instead it was Maryland Utd. who ended up with the cheap points powered by their impressive win over Logan.How would you have liked Maryland Utd's chances had they been put into Groups A or B in place of one of the punching bags?Are you serious dude? Their were about 8 top flight teams at Annandale and enough very good teams for a strong 2nd flight. Sorry, but the organizers made a mess of it.
Anyone seen the results for Manhattan?
I think this weekend shows a lot of things. Tsf can't compete with the big teams but would be a good fit for 2nd bracket. Parsippany had a chance to win their bracket but lost 3-0 to gotschee. Dol is a team who plays for points but it will catch up to them when they don't get looked at by colleges because almost college coaches were at a tournament other than maps kick off. Stallions showed they deserve to be in the second state cup bracket, gotschee showed they can play but they need more consistency, and sdfc won both their games after drawing the first so they could be a team to beat.
Did you say gottschee beat parsippany 3-0? Wow, I did not expect that from gottschee. I agree that they need to be more consistent but it only shows how much of a threat they are if they beat one of the best teams if not the best team in NJ. . Can't wait to see how they play this year.
DOL is not concerned with points. They're a good team that loves to play and does not feel the need to travel to or play in a lot of tournaments.
"Forgive my mistake on Calverton who laid an egg today. It happens. So instead it was Maryland Utd. who ended up with the cheap points powered by their impressive win over Logan.How would you have liked Maryland Utd's chances had they been put into Groups A or B in place of one of the punching bags?Are you serious dude? Their were about 8 top flight teams at Annandale and enough very good teams for a strong 2nd flight. Sorry, but the organizers made a mess of it."Maryland United parent here. Why are we getting shelled for playing in the C bracket and assume we wouldn't be able to compete with A or B? I know things change but apparently no one remembers us beating Fewster in EDP in June 3-0. As for this weekend, we were a little inconsistent at times for sure but Calverton is a tough athletic team. And that Michigan team gave us all we could handle. Well coached and well skilled. We were fortunate to beat them. By the way, they had played National League last year with teams like Baltimore and BRYC. As for Logan you're right. They are just not up to the top level. We should probably have scored a couple more on them. Overall, I thought the tournament did a pretty good job with the brackets. Was good competition mixed with decent weather.
"DOL is not concerned with points. They're a good team that loves to play and does not feel the need to travel to or play in a lot of tournaments."I'd say this statement is partially correct. I can fill in the blanks...DOL is not concerned with points EXPIRING UNTIL UNTIL MAY WHEN HALF OF THEIR'S WILL. They're a good team that loves to play AGAINST TEAMS THE EXPECT TO EASILY BEAT. They don't feel the need to travel to or play in a lot of tournaments OR CHALLENGE THEMSELVES.See you at the MAPS Challenge!
"Maryland United parent here..."Thanks for stopping by. And congrats on this past weekend's success!I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. But my opinion remains unchanged. A 3-0 win over Fewster last June was definitely a great win. But a 3-0 loss to Mon U Aresnal last November along with 2 draws and a loss at Disney last December are hardly the kind of bullet points one would expect to see on a top flight team's resume.In fairness, I would have seen Maryland Utd as one of a couple of teams in contention for the last spot in an 8 team flight at Annandale. But there's no way they'd have earned some cheap points this past weekend had this been the case.
"... along with 2 draws and a loss at Disney last December"I meant mention that these results came in the 9TH flight at Disney.
"Did you say gottschee beat parsippany 3-0?..."Gottschee is a very hard team to figure. They lost 2-0 to Northport team who were beaten up 4-0 by Parsippany. And then Gottschee went out and beat Parsippany?Similar performance at Bethesda from them. LDC beat Coral Gables 4-1. Gottsche lost to Coral Gables 4-0. Then Gottschee beat LDC?When they're good, they're very good. But they're just as likely to be lousy. Their the Jekyll and Hyde of U16!
The reason for Dol playing low competitive tournamnets a because they lost many key players to csa this season and they are rebuilding their team up and the teams getting to know each other. They're slowly gonna be back on the competitive tournamnets
Gottschee actually lost 2-1 to northport but I see what you mean. They need to be more consistent with way they play. They show that they are a very good team when playing against other very high quality teams.
I also agree with the strange way gottschee plays.. But I see this as the rise of a better team. Parsippany can beat almost anytime in NJ so this makes me think gottschee will go to finals of state cup and maybe beat any team they face off in the finals. But that's if they make it that far. This is just my opinion and I totally understand if you disagree because of the inconsistency they have in playing.
"...I totally understand if you disagree because of the inconsistency they have in playing"That's funny cause you're right. I have no doubt that they could beat anybody in the final. But I can't imagine that they could ever play well enough over the course of 4 games leading up to it to get there. As a matter of fact, I won't be surprised if they don't see the second round.
Well I would be surprised if they didn't make it to the quarterfinals actually.
It will definitely be an interesting tournament. And I think the first round matches between two "established" teams in Gottschee and Parsippany against two "newcomers" in MF Blue and SDFC are the really intriguing ones. If these two new teams are as good as advertised we may well see Gottschee and/or Parsippany out early.
The brackets are disappointing in the State Cup in that they don't seem to have understood that MF Blue and SDFC should both be pretty good. The Mt. Olive/Jersey Spartans matchup and the Monroe/Elizabeth one too make it look like there will be mediocre teams still playing after good ones have been knocked out.
I don't think the brackets are created with those thoughts in mind and are randomly drawn. But don't tell me dol has ever tried to win big tournaments. They get all their points from state cup wins and get minor points from easy tournaments.
"I don't think the brackets are created with those thoughts in mind and are randomly drawn."Well, they've give first round byes to DOL, Mainland, EB and MF Black so that doesn't look random to me. Maybe they had some geographical considerations as well (Vorhees/Boca Jrs)?I'd say they had at least some sort of seeding ideas with this. But despite this, there will be at least one 3rd round match that will feature what I would consider to be a less than elite team as I can't say I feel that way about any of SJEB, Cherry Hill, FC Copa or Princeton Orange.
I watched the TSF vs Parsippany White game last night because my sons team is playing TSF in the next round. However, even though TSF won, they absolutely shouldve lost. They came into the game not expecting a fight and had a real lack of intensity. They were defending for the first 10 minutes and couldnt get out of their half. The game relaxed but 20 minutes in , somebody on parsippany shot a free kick for 35 yards out and it went top corner. It was one of the best goals I have ever seen in a youth soccer match. However, parsippany was so excited about the goal, they gave up a set piece which was taken like a corner and poor marking left a man open at the back post who scored a tap in. The game continued to heat up as it went on with TSF constantly defending. Players were also getting into little fights as the intensity continued. Then in extra time, the goalie from tsf punted it 60 yards to his teammate who passed it to the edge of the 18 and the kid shot, the ball went off the post and with 2 minutes of stoppage time left, tsf lead. Completely against the run of play. Overall, this TSF was not what I expected but maybe parsippany played with their first team or maybe the second team is just as good. All I know is that the second team will definitely be giving teams a run for their money this season, and if tsf was to have a little more intensity, I could see them fighting for best team in the state.
I'm looking at the results from Jeff cup and this is the main reason why I dislike showcases. Both matchfit blue and parsippany went 3-0-0 this weekend and did not win their tourney. In one case, a team went 3-0-0 and got third in their group. This is what happens when 12 teams are thrown together into a bracket. Now I know the idea is to get scouted and not to win but matchfit and parsippany will now be deprived of points, which this blog have determined are important, and neither team did anything wrong. Almost all nj teams came to play this weekend and they certainly showed what nj is made of. Tsf won 2 drew another so they obviously got over their previous game. Matchfit black won the second bracket and east Brunswick also had a good showing. Nj force arsenal not great but they didn't get last and gotschee showed up in the bracket below as did mount olive. Finally, in the bottom bracket which still had very competitive teams, south jersey barons got third, Princeton finished mid table and the only disappointment was copa who finished last in the bottom bracket making them the worst team in the tourney. Overall, congrats to nj teams and shows us that we could have an exciting season on our hands.
I've been robbed of points this weekend. My boy may now not get into a D1 college. What to do? Back to PDA I guess.
College coaches far and few in attendance this year at the top brackets of the Jeff Cup. Did anyone else find this as well? At least at the NJ team games.
Has anyone else noticed the big dropoff in college coaches at the showcases over the past couple of years? It seems that they're putting a much bigger emphasis on kids coming to their camps rather than getting out an scouting games. Totally the opposite of basketball and football where the athletes are dictating the process. Because of the few scholarships available, it almost seems like the schools are dictating the process.
For players not in the absolute top tier it is more beneficial to first attend an ID Camp to get on a school's radar. Then invite them to see you play. If they are interested, they will. Colleges coaches are not going to accept invites by thousands of players from around the country simply because they are on a top 5 team on Gotsoccer in their particular state. It does appear to be the players chasing the colleges now for soccer for those players who do not already have a favorable reputation in their perspective league.
The blog has determined points are important? The highest level of authority. It's an opinion that points are so important.
"Overall, congrats to nj teams and shows us that we could have an exciting season on our hands."10 NJ teams (excluding FC Copa) combined for 17 wins, 7 draws and just 6 losses across the 2nd - 5th flights at the Jeff Cup. They scored a combined 64 while conceding 33. So yes, aside from NJ Force, it was a good weekend for just about all of them.FC Copa doesn't count. They need to go win the 3rd flight at a Pocono Cup or the like. Can't imagine they'll get accepted to any more decent events where there are more applications than spots and teams are being turned down.And I've decided to ignore the post above as I can only hope this WUM loses interest soon.
FC Copa parent here. Obviously our results this weekend were terrible. After beating Princeton FC and Vistula 3-0 and 5-0 respectively in scrimmages prior to Jeff Cup, I was expecting a lot better. It seems like our heads were just not in it this weekend. That being said, I'm confident we can learn from these defeats and build towards a great spring season. In other news, EDP Easter Showcase schedules are available, and we are in the 6th group down out of 8 in a showcase where there are very few good teams showing up. Personally, I'm very disappointed with the tournament directors as it seems like they put all their consideration on recent games, most notably tournament over the last 2 weeks. Thought we should have been 2 groups higher. In the group above us there is Jersey United who we beat 4-0, and LDC who we beat 8-1. With all that being said we obviously need to improve our results, we can't just keeping saying we're good. Good luck to everyone as teams really start getting into their spring seasons.
So, any other thoughts or predictions about the upcoming EDP showcase? Are there any other tournaments going on that weekend because a lot of good teams aren't participating in that?
I'm going to be honest. Fc copa doesn't seem to be a good team. I watched them play and they seem like the don't have any hunger. Maybe I saw them play a bad game but they're Jeff cup showing was abysmal.
EDP showcase thoughts and predictions:Flight 1: Montco vs Match Fit Black final, Montco winsI think it's always interesting when you have a team from a different country in a tournament. Fun for the players as well I would think.Flight 2: Ironbound in 1st, MF Blue in 2ndIt will be interesting to see how MF Blue does against better competition. So far, they've been killing off weaker competition, so we can finally see if they're as good as promised.Flight 3: YMS vs SJEB final, SJEB winsDifficult to predict this group, but SJEB had a good showing at Jeff Cup Flight 4: Toms River vs Philadelphia Coppa, Toms River winsFlight 5: FCUSA vs Jersey United, FCUSA winsFlight 6: Arsenal Black vs Copa, Copa winsNo idea about any lower than this
"Flight 1: Montco vs Match Fit Black final, Montco winsI think it's always interesting when you have a team from a different country in a tournament. Fun for the players as well I would think."I knew Pennsylvania was a Commonwealth but had no idea they had seceded from the Union!Oh, wait! You must be talking about the Canadian team as being from a different country. Sorry, my bad.
Interesting that the Canadian team doesn't need points to be in the top flight.
Well, I'm sure its because they don't have a got soccer points system for Canada. I'm sure the Canadian team will be at least decent.
"I'm looking at the results from Jeff cup and this is the main reason why I dislike showcases. Both matchfit blue and parsippany went 3-0-0 this weekend and did not win their tourney. In one case, a team went 3-0-0 and got third in their group. This is what happens when 12 teams are thrown together into a bracket."As I said before, I've never been a fan of the format either because you are competing against teams with uncommon opponents. Especially when points are distributed based on the quality of your individual group—not the bracket as a whole. MF Blue was actually in the "easiest" group from a points standpoint (which means very little of course), so it's probably fitting that their 3-0 was "second best" in their bracket. I'm partially joking, but it shows how arbitrary this all is.In the 2nd flight, TSF actually benefitted because in the traditional 4 team showcase format, they would have gone home empty after losing a head-to-head tiebreaker with the Illinois team that beat them.
God bless GotSoccer for all they have accomplished (which is a lot). But their rankings are so dependent on their own process that they are extremely skewed.I posted a link to this site previously but no one seemed to have been interested. But I'll post it again just in case:http://youthsoccerrankings.us/From this site: "This site ranks 133,000 youth soccer teams in the USA based upon the results of 1.1 million games in the last 18 months. The results come directly from more than 350 different tournament or league websites and are the most accurate and complete set used by any ranking system. The rankings are based solely on team results. Every goal in every game is considered when calculating the ranking of each team."For whatever it may be worth, these rankings don't reflect my opinion in all cases either. But they look a lot closer to what I see than GotSoccer's take.
Just looked at these rankings again and they have somehow elevated two teams I've never heard of to the top of the National Rankings. Once is from Georgia which is believable. But the other is from Hawaii which is not.Ah well! There is no truly reliable ranking system, But it you focus on U16 Boys in NJ, I think this once is a lot closer to reality than GotDoccer,
I've referred to that other ranking site on occasion, and I agree that it is fascinating. It has more data from more games, and I think it does a lot right without falling into the deficiencies of Got Soccer's very well designed but very skewed system. In most cases, I believe it IS more accurate in comparing teams from different states or regions.But I've also noticed that it's susceptible to wild inaccuracies due to all kinds of factors—some of which I can't put my finger on. These might be just temporary fluctuations, but strange teams with little playing history can sometimes find themselves at the top of their state or near the top nationally. The HI and Georgia teams you mentioned are probably good examples of that. Not that Georgia isn't strong, but you'll notice that there are several GA teams near the top due to league results where many played one another. Even though these teams have limited playing histories, somehow that is causing a spike to those teams as a whole.Sometimes what might happen is a new team with no resume will play in a high-scoring indoor tournament against little known competition (which isn't advisable, but the system may not know the difference) and win 8-1, 10-2, 6-0 and 9-3. Suddenly, they show up ranked higher than established teams in the same state with a long history of results. This will probably get weeded out, but these anomalies seem pretty common in a homegrown system like this one.Like, I say...it gets a lot right, but I think it's more accurate when comparing teams with deep histories and relatively current results.
Hmmmm. Scanning NJ, MD, VA, etc., the rankings are pretty reasonable. As logical as anything any of us could come up with. Making comparisons with opponents based on the numbers isn't perfect, but it does seem to work pretty well.BUT...WOW...you're right about the wild anomalies! The whole thing crumbles when you see that 4 of the top 10 teams are GA teams (United excluded) that played in one league with no other results other than against the other teams in that league. That's nuts.
I think the idea of that is to not reward just teams who play tournaments the way for soccer does. That's why a team can lose points even if they beat s team if their opponent is worse and they don't win convincingly. The problem is that some teams that don't play tournaments don't play anyone good but still win and get increase in rankings. What this site does do is ween out teams like den of lions who have points from playing in easy tournaments. It also rewards teams like parsippany and sdfc who don't play for points but play teams that are good. Overall I definitely think this is a good comparison to got soccer because this rates teams via quality.
Looks like the 2 top GA teams have already changed their name!
Results for some NJ teams this weekend:Mainland lost 2-1 to YMS and tied Northern Steel Bayern 0-0Logan also tied Northern Steel Bayern 1-1PDA Rooney demolished Hauppauge crew 4-0Copa lost to MF Blue 6-3 but beat Staten Island Gunners 2-1MF Blue beat Copa but lost to SJEB 3-0Gottschee beat EB in what seems to be a thrilling game 4-3MF Black beat NJ Force 1-0Monroe beat NJ Stallions Madrid 3-1Parsippany White beat Mt. Olive 4-2In EDP Open Cup, Logan beat Monroe 2-1
What happened to Den of Lions this past weekend. How did they loose to Pasco in the Ironbound tournament final.
Maybe because they're not a good team? Only beat North Plainfield and Buckingham by 1 goal each at last weeks Maps Spring Challenge. Lost to Staten Island Gunners at DTS. Soon, the rankings should reflect the actual quality of that team, which I believe is not worthy to be in the top 10 in NJ. On another note, does anyone have any information on this Parsippany White team? Is it literally the same team as Parsippany Blue or a different team? Or are they sometimes playing with their A team and sometimes B team? Because the results for this team are very weird. Beat Mt. Olive and close game with TSF, yet finish third in the third bracket down at NEFC Showcase playing against poor competition. Also their results at Manhattan Showcase would not point to them being able to compete with TSF.
After looking into the recent comments parsippany white played in Massachusetts at midday at nefc and played mount olive at 8 pm. Fishy?
Parsippany's 'Blue' Team has 24 players. None for the White. But the same Coach. Can you say Player Exchange?If parents accept it when their kids have to sit against the better teams then good for them! Interesting to see if they are in contention for the Central Division Second Bracket or a lower tiered Tournament. Will they bring the better players down for the games?
5:12 so are you saying that Parsippany Blue and White are indeed one and the same? I believe you're saying that Parsippany has a large squad, so they use the better players (the Blue) for more important games, and the worse players (the White) for less important games. In that case, why don't they just make 2 separate teams? I'm sure they could find the additional 6-7 players. It would save Parsippany Blue players from playing bad tournaments with bad teams. I feel like I'm not getting what you're saying, though. Please re-explain in a different way, if you can.
Parsippany Blue is the NPL 99 team and plays in the NPL. A separate team is Parsippany White and they play in the EDP league. Yesterday while the White was in MA players from NPL 00 and a few Blue players played against Mt. Olive. They are three separate teams (Blue or NPL 99, NPL 00 and White) but with close to 40 players that are U16 sometimes they are mixed to fill gaps. Each player is assigned to their major team. Parsippany Blue has not,to my knowledge, played in the place of the White team. I hope this clears things up a little. If you look at the Got Soccer roster for Blue it is outdated. But the picture in the left corner is not.
Okay, that makes sense. But looking at the pictures for Parsippany Blue and White on GotSoccer, they are the exact same picture, with about 30 kids. I am sure that is not the squad for Blue, its probably Blue and White. So it seems very reasonable to think that the players interchange between the two teams regularly. Also, someone earlier said on this blog that Parsippany Blue DID play for White at DTS, so I don't know where you're getting your information from saying "Parsippany Blue has not,to my knowledge, played in the place of the White team". Finally, to further muddle things up, Parsippany Blue is not, looking at the NPL leagues, even in NPL. Nor are they in Region 1 Champs League or any EDP leagues. So, it seems to me that PSC Blue is clearly playing for white in EDP. Either that, or a group of talented players at PSC Blue are just not playing in any league, which is 99% not true. Also, you said something about an NPL 00 team? I don't see that team in got soccer, so what team are you talking about?Sorry, but you seem to have made things even more confusing.
Parsippany Blue is the NPL 99 team and do play in the NPL league. https://www.nyclubsoccerleague.com/html/npl/current/standing-list.asp?GF=Boys&AF=U16&SEASON=NPL+2015-Parsippany also has a 2000 team that plays in the NPL league. Some of these boys are born between January 2000 and July 2000 and are invited to play on the Blue or White team.https://www.nyclubsoccerleague.com/html/npl/current/standing-list.asp?GF=Boys&AF=U15&SEASON=NPL+2015-2016Boys could be asked to play on either of the three teams if they meet the age eligibility but they have their main team and play for that team the vast majority of the time.I am not 100% sure but I don't think Blue played in a tournament for White. Maybe some of the players on Blue played but not the entire squad.
Right, I got you. I just assumed Parsippany would be in the EDP Division of NPL because thats where most NJ teams are. Didn't think to check other NPL divisions. Looks like the NY division even gives points, unlike the EDP Division, which is a plus. This all makes sense now, although I guess we are still yet to determine if Blue players often play with White.
All this talk about Parsippany got me wondering so I got in touch with a the dad of a former teammate of my son's who's boy is there now to get the scoop. He says there are about 35 players in the age group at this point and there are also some U15's who play up from time to time. He confirmed that they are basically split into two U16 teams with the Blue being the stronger of the two. But he said that nothing is cast in stone and that kids can play themselves off one roster and onto the other based on their performance at training each week. The entire group trains together.He also said the group at DTS was primarily the Blue team (he wasn't sure why they played as the White team) but the one that lost to TSF in the State Cup was the White team.Sounds like a pretty competitive environment to me and has me wondering if they may be looking for another player!
"Gottschee beat EB in what seems to be a thrilling game 4-3"That's a couple of good wins for Gottschee of late as they beat Parsippany Blue 3-0 at Manhattan.Jekyll and Hyde!
That information about all the Parsippany u16s training with each other and being able to switch sqauds constantly based on their performance actually sounds kinda cool and innovative. I've never really heard of another club doing that, but the more I think about it the more benefits I can see to training in that kind of environment. It puts more pressure on the kids to perform, making them practice in game-like scenarios. On the contrary, some kids probably don't like that type of constant pressure, and it doesn't really allow for development of team chemistry all that much, since you're playing with players that aren't on your team. In fact, it seems kind of like the environment in high school soccer to be perfectly honest, but interesting stuff nonetheless.
I've just noticed that Ironbound have made their u16 navigators a u17 team. They are all the same players, just moved up an age group. I assume this is because of the new age grouping next year, but anyone with more information?
"...and it doesn't really allow for development of team chemistry all that much, since you're playing with players that aren't on your team."I think the idea is that all the players are on your team, or at least on your club. I don't see how this is much different than a team with 18 where the first team play more than the other 7, yet those other 7 are competing at practice to get more game time.I would agree that bigger squads like this are not common here. But I think this is the way the rest of the world goes about it pretty regularly.
"...I assume this is because of the new age grouping next year..."We're going to see a lot of changes because of this come the fall. But unless Ironbound have already moved some of their younger '00 players to their younger team and some of the younger '99s to this one, I'm not sure why they'd make this move just yet.
"younger '00 players?"Sorry, meant older.
I guess gottschee has been getting better as predicted.. Let's see if they stay that way because as of now I defiantly see them making semi finals or finals at state cup.
Gottschee jumped from 8th to 4th in the state.. How was this possible?
Sorry I made a mistake on the gottschee post I did. I put "defiantly" instead of Definitely... Oops my bad
"Gottschee jumped from 8th to 4th in the state.. How was this possible?"I just saw this and I was just confused. Because just yesterday they were in 8th and now clearly they are in 4th. Doing a quick addition of their points shows that the got soccer math isn't screwed up. Then I found the problem.If you look at the event details for 2015 EDP Open Cup, it constantly says "Winner of Play-in-Game B" in the quarterfinals, semis, and finals. That team was Gottschee. Looks like it took a year for GS to figure that out, or for Gottschee to notify someone, before they got it right, and gave Gottschee the points they earned.
Talk about a massive mistake.. Or at least I think it is because that could have had gottschee play in higher levels in tournaments. For example they could have played in the same level in tournaments as TSF. I'm not saying they would do better and win but at least they would have a chance to gain more points if winning or coming out finalist or in semifinal.
You're quite right ... that's one huge mistake. And I can't imagine that it took Gottschee a year to notify GS, what with points being such a big thing on getting into major tournaments and the like. I got to say that this was a major goof by GS. Why did it take them so long to fix it?
I understand the Gottschee enthusiasm whether it's definite or defiant. Northpoort Cow Harbor plays in NYE, right?
It thought Gottschee was confusing before. But now I can't tell if they're Jekyll, Hyde or Winner of Play-in-Game B.BTW, Winner of Play-in-Game B has a bit of Jekyll and Hyde to them, reaching the final of the EDP Open Cup and then getting scorched 4-0.
As redemption for their goof, I believe it would be quite fair for GS to keep those 4,000 points Gottschee got for EDP open cup to last for 1 year starting today. I don't think they will, but I hope they realize their mistake and make sure it doesn't happen to this scale again. I've had this type of thing happen to my own sons team a few times, when EDP for some reason doesn't enter some of his Edp games. Like he plays the game, wins or loses, and it is just never recorded in the standings. Anyway, tough luck Gottschee.
Yeah I know Gottschee's been trying to get those points since July. Sucks that it came after the tournaments, their placement at Manhattan and Jefferson
"But now I can't tell if they're Jekyll, Hyde or Winner of Play-in-Game B."I think this statement is now false because that was months ago. Gottschee after beating parsippany 3-0 have been stepping up. I predicted they wouldn't have won this many games without losing.. Guess the guy was right when he said that gottschee will surprise people this year because that's what they've been doing to me. I'll put this way.. Gottschee has been surprising me more than any other team in NJ but I guess that's my opinion.
Gottschee lost to Cow Harbor earlier on the same day they beat Parsippany. Sorry, but that's Hyde and Jekyll.
"Yeah I know Gottschee's been trying to get those points since July. Sucks that it came after the tournaments, their placement at Manhattan and Jefferson"hmmmm .... so if Gottschee's been trying since July last year to get those points, then it's not Gotsoccer that dind't do their job. That would be EDP who didn't report it correctly. and yeah, tough luck, they lose out on placements in tournaments. It would also affect their application to other tournaments, right? So is that EDP manipulating placements and standings?
I think the idea of parsippany having to play for their spot on the "blue" team is interesting but my question would be if any funny business was involved in who was on which team or if a player who worked hard couldn't win a spot on the team because they were thought of as a "white" team player. Then there is the problem of what if the white team becomes short players because of injuries so instead of 35 players on their roster, only 30 players are there and then the team is short players (which might not be important if they younger team also plays up) and my final problem could be if kids are constantly moving teams, who would be captain and if there wasn't a captain, how can one player decide to show leadership without looking arrogant? The idea is interesting but even professional teams have 30 players on their roster and you choose 18 for each tournament/game and the remaining players have to work their way into the team.
"So is that EDP manipulating placements and standings?"Or worse yet, could it be the Russians doing this from the grassy knoll?
Does anyone think they knew the true "best team" in NJ right now? I've just been think since the top 5 ranks in the state are so close right now.
1. PDA Rooney2. MF Black3. EB4. Parsippany Blue5. GottscheeAnd with that said, I think any one of these teams could beat any other of them on any given day.
"I think the idea of parsippany having to play for their spot on the "blue" team is interesting but my question..."I can't say I'm close to the Parsippany club but posts like this make me wonder. What kind of "funny business" might be involved that one wouldn't find in a more traditional two team environment where a player on the "B" team has no (or very limited) opportunity to move to the "A" squad?And with a pool of 35-36 players, wouldn't it be easier for Parsippany to adapt to injuries? So why would this present any more of a problem than it would on a single team with 17 or 18 players?As far as kids "constantly" moving teams, I have no idea if this is the case or not. The post from March 22, 2016 at 1:26 PM says they are " basically split into two U16 teams...but that kids can play themselves off one roster and onto the other based on their performance at training each week." So while I understand that this gives the impression of a weekly assessment, I'm not sure it means there's a revolving door with players "constantly" streaming from one roster to the other. Seems one would need to earn this (or deserve it) and I have no idea how hard or easy that may be.As far as the captain stuff goes, I think that's just plain silly.To me, it sounds like Parsippany is working towards providing a competitive environment that promotes player development akin to the way clubs around the world go about this. Not easy to do here as there aren't too many clubs who can sign enough players to provide the critical mass of bodies needed for this. But posts about not knowing who the captain is and "funny business" just seem contrarian for the sake of it to me.My son is very happy where he is and I have no real plans of a change at this point. But if he were looking to make a move, this is a club I'd definitely want to check out.
""So is that EDP manipulating placements and standings?"Or worse yet, could it be the Russians doing this from the grassy knoll?"haahahah yep, it could very well be. It is still humans after all, and not robots who work on updating websites. It sounds suspicious that it would take so long to fix a mistake that was brought to their attention since July, unless the system crashed and was out of wack for several months - which we know it wasnt.
Not sure if there's a revolving door between the Parsippany A and B squads. It would seem to me that Parsippany would have a core A and B squad, each with their own captains. Players from B probably get a spot on A and play up depending on their performance either at practice or games. I would think it a headache for the coach to constantly select who plays for which squad each game each week, and then have to rearrange his squads. Then again, maybe he likes to go through that weekly selection.
But it would also be in Parsippany's best interest to make sure the Blue and White teams are competitive meaning that if that means pushing some players down to make sure the White team is successful than so be it. I think that's what people are questioning. I think this kind of structure as original as it is is only successful if there's not a super huge gap between the teams. If you can talk parents into paying for this but there's a chance the second team is near the bottom then you probably don't have quite the support. Just a thought.
"...It sounds suspicious that it would take so long to fix a mistake that was brought to their attention since July..."I find this hard to believe too. I've had some dealings with GotSoccer over the years and have always been impressed with their quick follow up. I can't say they've always accommodated my requests. But in the cases where they didn't they at least got back to me quickly to explain why. And I can't fathom why EDP would want to deny a team that pays to play in their events either. So I don't know who the real culprit is here but I can't help but wonder if it wasn't Gottschee themselves.
I don't know why GS would want to screw up Gottschee, they're a big club and give tons of money to EDP every year. It just makes absolutely no sense. The problem probably lies with Gottschee themselves, who failed to notice that they didn't get points, although I agree even that seems strange. And of course let me put my own input into the top teams in NJ:1. PDA Rooney2. MF Black3. Gottschee4. EB5. Parsippany6. TSFI'm going a lot on who's beaten who. Gottschee at 3 is definitely higher than others think, but on a good day they can beat anyone, and I think that type of potential deserves some credit. Besides PDA and MF, I think these teams really are all dead even.
So if you think gottschee can beat anyone on a good day, do you think they can beat MF and PDA?
Yes, anyone is anyone.
" The problem probably lies with Gottschee themselves, who failed to notice that they didn't get points, although I agree even that seems strange. "I agree. There's a post a couple of days ago that said that Gottschee had been trying to get those points posted since July (last year), so they surely noticed. I don't think it's GS either - they're getting results from the leagues and tournaments, so it seems to me that it was stuck with EDP. In any case, they're back where they belong now, so it should make for an exciting and interesting season!
Interestingly, that youth soccer rankings page also has Gottschee at 3 (without the GS points), so yeah give them the credit. At least they're playing in major tournaments, and not just playing secondary tournaments for points as DOL likes to do. I would say the top 5 or 6 teams in NJ right now is a toss-up. We'll see how the season goes for them.
I just found this out, but did anyone know that you can see why a team earns as many points as they did for placing in a tournament?Hard to describe, but do this:1. Go to a team's GS page2. Hover your cursor over the number of points awarded for a specific eventFor example, go to PDA Rooney's GS page, hover your cursor over the 1786 points they got for Manhattan Kickoff, and you can see why they got that many points. I don't know if anyone else knew this, I certainly didn't.
Gotschee is always in some sort of scandal because if we go far back, they were playing with kids a year up and now they have this thing so maybe got soccer didn't want to give gotschee the points until they believed that they weren't cheating anymore
Gottschee in a scandal? what scandal are they in now? I haven't heard anything recently. And they wouldn't be the first team to play with kids a year up - most teams, if not all, do that same thing. Somebody probably sold them out. And Gotsoccer doesn't decide whether to give points or not - that would be EDP. And 12:01pm - thanks for that tip on the points. I sort of vaguely knew there was some sort of formulas, but this shows it much better.
TSF beat the best team in the country at Dallas Cup but they are not top 5 in the state I agree
A win over La Premier FC on Tuesday was certainly a great result for TSF. What a shame they fell short the following day against the FC Dallas team as they were in position to win their group. But placing 2nd in the group at Dallas still does NJ proud!Unexpected results though for a team that struggled to beat the Parsippany B team in the State Cup 2 weeks ago. Still, nice job TSF!
Wow it's impressive that TSF beat the number one team in the country. But what I find even more crazy is that the teams above TSF (not counting DOL) can beat TSF any day. I also think parsippany can beat TSF easily. But anyways my point is that our top NJ teams must be really high quality teams that can beat almost any team in the country including the number 1 team in the nation. But maybe that's me thinking really radically..
I know I'm very late on this but I know an EB parent who told me that the gottschee v. EB game that resulted 4-3 counted for two games.. One for EDP and the other for NJYS or what ever that other state cup is called. While the parent told me this I was kinda questioning if that were possible. Could it actually be true?
Yes it can, the MF vs Copa match counted for NPL and EDP Open Cup
Yeah but I thought NJYS doesn't start till April.
Yes, the TSF win over LA Premier is big news for both them in particular and for NJ in general.It's been a while since I felt that NJ clubs were on par with the best in the country. But between Parsippany's semifinal showing at the Surf Cup last summer, MF Black making their final at Disney and now TSF's strong showing at Dallas this month, NJ teams have shown up big time at big national events recently. Seems NJ deserves a fair amount of respect IMO.And the fact that most of us know that any one of these (or a few other NJ teams) could all beat each other on any given day means that our state is a very competitive one (in the northern part at least).Good for all of our boys!
I thought njys doesn't start until April too. In fact, I don't think teams have even been notified if they've been accepted, let alone a bracket being released.
In the past I have seen GotSoccer list the same game twice in team's game history under two different event names. Sometimes EDP offers teams from the same league who happen to meet at another of their events (EDP Cups for example) to have the tournament game count as the league match as well. I'm pretty sure both teams need to agree to this before the match starts.And there also seems to be some confusion about the two "State Cups." The event that's already played 1st round matches is not the "State Cup," but the "New Jersey Cup" and is organized by US Club Soccer.http://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?tid=462021&tclass=Boys%20U16%20Super%20GroupThe "State Cup" as it has traditionally been called is the first step of US Youth Soccer's National Championship Series at the state level NJYS) with the winner advancing to the regional and potentially national championships. As per NJYS's site, registration for this one is still open (until 4/4) and the brackets are to be out on 4/11.So it seems unlikely that the Gottschee/EB game could be counting for both the EDP league and either of these State tournaments as these teams wouldn't meet until the final in the NJ Cup and still don't know when they may meet in the other.NJYS is also organizing an event called the NJYS Presidents Cup with preliminary rounds played on 4/9 - 4/10 but I can't find any schedule for this one.
No but the parent was clear that it was NJYS national series. So that's why I was so confused.
Then either the EB parent knows something the rest of us don't or, more likely I'd say, was confused themselves.
The EB game versus Gotschee counted as part of EDP and the QUALIFIER game (1of 3) which NJYS requires you to play to participate in the state cup. This was not a State Cup game.
So gottschee and EB have to play two more games to qualify?
No, not each other specifically. I believe NJYS requires teams to be carded by them and to play at least 3 games against other NJYS carded competition in order to qualify for their "State Cup." That's why we see some teams passing on this one these days as they may card through US Club only.I'd say the NJ Cup is probably a better representation of the real State Championship but GotSoccer still recognizes the USYS/NJYS winners as such. This explains how a team like Mainland could have "earned" this honor last year.
GotSoccer is showing that MF Black drew with Ironbound today. Does anybody out there have a real handle on who Ironbound really is?
I definitely have too much time on my hands as, having grown tired of skewed math and biased opinions, I tried to devise my own ranking system for NJ U16 boys tonight. Of course, my system is flawed from the start because I relied on Got Soccer rankings to a degree. But I gave it a go anyway and can’t say I’m unhappy with the results.My idea was to see how the current top 10 NJ teams have fared against top 5 competition from all states since the age group changed to U16 last summer. So I painstakingly sorted out the results for each team against competition that was ranked # 5 or better in their state. I decided GotSoccer’s State rankings were a better gauge than their National ones as some Midwest states don’t rack up points like we do here in the Northeast and I knew that needed to be addressed. For example, MF Black has played Minnesota Utd, who are ranked #605 nationally by GotSoccer. But they’re the #1 ranked team in their state so they’ve got to be much more competitive than say, Berkley Revolution who are ranked #607 nationally but #40 here in NJ. Make sense?After compiling all this data I found that some NJ teams play a lot of highly ranked teams from all around the country while other just don’t. For example, Parsippany has played the most games against teams that meet this criteria with 11 and MF Black is second with 10. On the other side of the list are Gottschee and SJEB with 3 each and DOL who have played just 2.Using some “magic” I devised a formula that rewarded teams for a combination of the number of games played and their results. I won’t give you the full details on how I went about this cause that would be like the Colonel giving away his secret recipe. But here are the results…call them the Kentucky Fried NJ U16 Boys Top 10!1 TSF / 120.32 Parsippany / 113.13 MF Black / 81.04 Rooney / 42.15 Gottschee / 28.36 Logan / 19.67 Mainland / 17.58 EB / 9.79 SJEB / 5.310 DoL / 0.0
I think GS's rankings are almost as good as anything any of us will come up, to be honest. Yeah, we could Parsippany higher and move DOL lower but I think that will change with time, and if doesn't, oh well. There are flaws with every system. Just look at the FIFA national team rankings.
For all those who think that tsf beat lafa, think again. I have heard the game was rained out after 30 mins so they were winning 2-1 but who knows if they would've won. Also, I heard they took about 7 guest players and left some of their own team home to bring guests. I'm not sure if this is true because my sources are unreliable but if it is true, that's wrong to rather win than help your own team.
It's typical of TSF to let guest players play the whole game and leave their own players home. Rankings and points are more important to them.
I don't know much about TSF so I can't say if these claims are true or not. But I've said it before...that substituting guests for full time members at big tournaments is really hard to stomach IMO. We all pay plenty for our kids to be members of their clubs. So the idea that "paying customers" are left on the bench (or at home) while some other players who are not even part of the club gets exposure at a big event like Dallas or Disney is despicable. Not sure how parents and players would allow this without demanding a refund.
812 and 1013 you both are completely wrong as a player of this team we all worked very hard and through hard work we beat the best team in the country and we used our own squad not a single guest player came and it did not even rain in Dallas until the last day so if you need us to clarify anything else we would be more than happy. As we take great offense to these complete lies and would like to be recognized as a team that does not cheat but just works hard. Thank you guys if you want the film of the game we would be more than happy to send.
I am a Parent that went to the Dallas Cup with my son this past week that is on TSF. From a literal first hand experience from being there I will tell all of you that TSF did not bring one guest player on their roster. Also, they did beat LAFA the best in the country fair and square. They sat back and defended for their lives and put all of there heart out on the field. They deserve some real respect as I didn't see any other team from NJ in this age group go to Dallas Cup and finish second in the group. All of the Parsippany players and the parents that are on here were loathing on their couches at home wishing they were competing with the best teams in the country.
Well I was not one of the ones saying that TSF used guest players, but in any case, well done! Great victory over LAFA and unlucky not to make to the quarterfinals despite winning 2 games. I think this is the start of a revival of NJ clubs in this age group, after a disappointing 14/15 season. MF Black took another loss to Montco (I swear they have played each other at least 5 times), but NJ's on the rise!
Tsf may have brought down their real team but I find it a bit confusing how they can say they have a lot of character. First they should've lost to parsippany b team or at least struggled with them, then they beat lafa and embarrassed another team at Dallas and all they had to do was beat a team and they were winning 1-0 at halftime and they just had to defend and win 1-0 to get out of the group but instead they gave up 3 second half goals so while I am extremely impressed that they beat the number 1 team in the country, their inconsistency outweighed their talent IMO.
Can't wait for this weekend! So many important and good games.
This is going to sound a little crazy but this is why tsf doesn't make sense to me. Parsippany lost to Marin 2-0 who lost to lafa in surf cup finals 3-0. Then tsf beat lafa 2-1 but they almost lost to parsippany b and struggled previous weeks in Manhattan and other local tournies. Based on the comments, whoever said they didnt beat lafa is wrong but whoever said they were inconsistent is dead on. As is gotschee and parsippany and if you think about it, all of these teams are a little inconsistent which is okay. Nobody at this age is good enough to play well EVERY game and if you are, your in the academy program. That's why I think to rate the top teams is so challenging because of the inconsistencies. Who's better on any given day between tsf, matchfit black and blue, parsippany, gotschee, pda, and possibly east Brunswick is so close that it's impossible to rank these teams. I bet if you put any of these teams on a field and had them play 10 times, the final result would be 5-5 or possibly 6-4 with neither team being significantly better. Every team has a bad day. Last year east Brunswick lost to dol 5-0! The week before they beat mf black. That's why soccer is so exciting. Any team can win on any day.
I'm glad to hear the claims of guests and rain are untrue. Congrats TSF on a great win!
What many fail to consider is that these inconsistencies are due to various factors at this age.Yes, many teams bring guest players, but there are other factors such as missing players and injuries.Game play is tougher at this age, so injuries play a major factor on team performance.....especially those teams who do not have a deep bench.Last year, EB lost 5-0 against DOL due to a red card to a starting player 10 minutes into the game. I'm not saying refs have a major impact on the overall consistency of a team, but one wrong call can change results drastically......and paint an inaccurate picture.And for the poster above (7:18PM), you make a great point.....any of these teams can beat each other on any given day.
DOL destroys EB last year without red card. No making excuses. Winning 2-0 when the red card given. EB come out tired looking and DOL take advantage with determination. Foul was frustration.EB brings guest players to all tournaments no injuries. Jefferson Cup EB have 2 guest players my friend said.No excuse!
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