Friday, September 14, 2012
ODP (Olympic Development Program) - Region I and Beyond
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109 comments:
March 1 "Many of you are too unrealistic....7 kids in ODP Regional and only one received high interest from a Division 1 school."
I am curious how that could be. There are only 4 Regions and 198 Div 1 schools on the Men's side. Regional ODP looks like a pretty unique asset that would be in demand. Are you suggesting Div 1 only looks at US DA kids? Even so there only 80 DA teams. Div 1 would have to take most every kid from all those teams just to fill their rosters and many of those kids just wouldn't be a fit e.g. how many will qualify to go to Harvard. Can the 4 Regional ODP teams be so much worse than all 80 DA teams? I question whether your situation is really true or perhaps unusual because the math seems to suggest otherwise. I'd love to hear from anyone who knows this subject well.
just to add something to the d1 discussion , i have heard that half the kids they fill their rosters with come from outside the US
You heard wrong, very wrong.
SoccerCare at a school/field near you
I don't think I ever said that exclusively academy kids went D1. If you've been on the high-level soccer scene long enough, you'd realize region 1 is in shambles of what it was. When kids came pouring in 4-5 years ago from all of the top teams in the state, and such a high-level pool was developed.. those same kids are now playing high-level academy and have received Division 1 offers. If you are a high-level player, you will be noticed. Now, if you went to the friendlies and had the chance to see the '96 games played, which I doubt happened, you would see that they were average games, and would have never known they were state teams, excluding the superb North Carolina team who qualified for nationals. All I'm saying is Region 1 is diminishing. It may look good on your resume for your hopes of going D1, but for the most part the slim amount of players that go D1 will be recognized at tournaments and ID camps, not through their ODP experiences.
For example,the Penn Fusion '93 team was a great team with plenty of exposure. take a look at all the ODP experience listed there by the D1 commits. Hope you understand that it's becoming less and less difficult to play region 1 at the higher ages.
http://www.pennfusion.org/boys/93/index_E.html
You never did I was just trying to guess how or why ODP Regional players might get overlooked or why ODP is not a useful venture. You stated posters are being unrealistic. I cannot assess to what extent and why Region 1 is in shambles compared to years past. Please elaborate.
ODP has helped players get into D1 schools in the past. Your Penn Fusion example shows that is till true and that many kids do more than just ODP. I am trying to understand why Regional ODP would not help today or in the future. It seems to me there are few Regional slots and way more D1 rosters that need to be filled. It looks good on a resume. If D1 schools don't go after Regional ODP players then who do they go after instead? 198 D1 rosters are a lot of spots to fill compared to 80 DA clubs and only 4 Regional ODP teams even if you include foreigners which do not account for anything close to 50% of the D1 rosters.
Let's do the simple analysis of the situation. Can academy players play ODP? No. Now, for the most part would you say the highest level players in each age are academy players, in all honesty? The answer is yes. All I am saying is ODP has lost its prominence. If the best players in the region can not play, how is it at the same level it was? It's now secondary to USSDA. On the last trip to Panama for the U-17 national team, 15 of the 20 players were registered with a USSDA academy, four waiting in residency with NO club ties, and one located in Nebraska with no nearby academies. The four unattached players do not play academy, nor does the Omaha FC product, though he was eligible. Now, the u-17 MNT draws the top talent, and yet none of these players played regional ODP last year. Would you agree that ODP is no longer as strong as what it was even a few years ago?
In all honesty, you cant simply say the best players are playing academy ball. Your child may play for an academy but that means you are limited to seeing academy players. I know of many academy players that couldnt make an impact on my sons team.
I was just reviewing the NJ soccer website and am I right to see that April 2nd and 9th are the next dates of commitment? The information on this blog has been a big help. Thank you contributors.
Last I checked ODP was open to all boys and girls. I know in girls, players are dropping ecnl to play ODP. ecnl now allows players to play ODP because of this. In boys DA does not allow players to play ODP. Again,, THE ACADEMY DOES NOT ALLOW BOYS TO PLAY ODP (or High School).
Do the research and make the best decision for your daughter and son.
Both will be here 10 years from now, and probably another avenue as well for elite players.
I do not see anything competing with ODP on the girls side. Too much or a great track history there. Most all Women's Olympic players came through ODP.
Your argument weakens yet again and you put words in my mouth, most of the best players play academy, not all. With your statement that academy players could not make a difference on your son's club team, I would most likely simmer down with that. If you are to tell me that arguably the most competitive club to receive a spot on in the country (NYRB) has no players that would make an impact on your team, you are obviously out of your mind. NYRB takes players from NJ, CT, NY, and PA.. and mainly only offers players tryouts. Also, PDA takes mainly from NJ and PA (occasionally NY) and fields some of the best teams in the nation for DA. If you're these kids aren't high enough quality to receive a spot on your son's club team, I do not know what to tell you.
http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/the-role-of-odp-in-american-youth-soccer_aid28535
"It does seem from watching the boys games that the standard on display does not match what you see throughout the Development Academy, but perhaps that’s not the aim of ODP."
ok, then you dont know what to tell me. I will still tell you that there are academy players that would not make or even make a difference on my sons team. Of course there are many great academy players, but not all.
Thanks for the link - nice read.
I believe a poster said the girls ODP is working just fine. That's because there is no Academy system on the girls side and until id2 grows a little more - ODP will continue putting out the same product in my opinion.
Can't argue with the results in the past - we've won Olympic Gold and one World Cup - but as the rest of the world is putting more money into their Womens program can ODP continue developing our USWNT?
It feels like we lost a generation of players - we've had the same players for years. Did ODP fail to identify players to replace them, since it seems like our players are a lot more technical these days. Are they still looking for the same type of player that worked in the past but struggled against a much younger German team recently.
Women's college soccer ruins the players for World play. As soon as ODP identifies players most try to play college as well WNT.
College coaches to WNT is like HS coaches to Region 1.
US girls have a different outlook on the world outside of soccer. Let it be. College Degrees are much more important, because there is no(zero) money in Women's soccer after college. Smart women use ODP to get into college and/or play some internationally then play college.Very few will make enough playing soccer to pay for a house and car.
NJ first time parent. How much weight does the Virginia friendlies carry? What would be the best time to show your "A" game, the first tryout, the Virginia trip, or the final tryouts? Just wondering if the trip is a money scheme or an actual evaluation of players.
Friendlies done. Rider Cup is a great event. At u-15 and older there will be lots of real college coaches
observing, not the kid assistant of an assistant like other tourneys, but Real head coaches. This is a big opportunity for them to see some talent in Region 1.
Okay what is this board about talking ODP in the development of or future USWNT players vs. id2 vs the different ODPs like Super Y or
on the boys side Academy vs odp to develop our future USMNT players.
or
is it just about which option is better to use for college as a feather in the cap conversation OVER lets move on??
Don't they all have value when it comes to that?
I thought this was a soccer board to talk about the paths for kids who have dreams to be the few that can make the USWNT/USMNT
or for the lucky few that have dual citizenship and have other options to play soccer at that level not us parents talking about MONEY
Maybe I'm on the wrong board?
You are wrong.
this board is about ODP. The true path for girls right now is through ODP.
There is no academy for girls anywhere.
No academy for girls soccer. Boys have academies Girls do not. ODP extremely important for girls.
Thanks for the link.
So March 5 9:42PM...you ARE saying that D1 schools look to DA clubs and not really to ODP at all. Clearly by age 17 the USMNT is. Thanks for the breakdown. I wonder if that is true at U14 as well?
We are below HS age and my answers are very different than yours and maybe that will change by U17. At lower ages it is not true the highest level players are in academies. Our club team has beaten all the academy teams PDA, Matchfit, NJSA etc. I cannot even imagine paying 3-5K/yr for PDA or Matchfit and a lot of the parents on our team and other top 10 ranked teams are in the same boat. As a result the pool outside academies is bigger and as talented as in the academies I think. The single best player I know at the age is not on an academy team. I realize that may change beyond U13 as Academies become a draw for many of these players, but how do most people pay for it? I was hopeful ODP would be a good alternative, but it is looking expensive too (like paying for another team and getting much less training and no better competition for it). Also, there were players present from Matchfit and PDA in Virginia. How can that be if the DA clubs don't allow ODP? Again it is a younger age group if that matters. Does everyone else agree? ODP will not help a boy get into D1 schools?
One last question as I appreciate your insightful replies and had a related conversation this weekend about DAs (sorry to deviate from ODP). I know an exceptionally talented HS age kid who has been sought after by NYRB not the other way around. He turned them down because he wants to play with his HS friends. Granted it is not the typical HS. Also, he gets to play for WorldClass which is an exceptional quasi-academy themselves. His dad is an ex-pro who moved from Europe and he asked me how many pros in the world came from RB Academy. In 15 yrs I think the number was 2. That is not good. The implication was that the creme de la creme of DAs here in the USA is a joke on the world scale. Well maybe joke is too harsh, but the message is clear and I wonder how many non DA kids like that get lost at D1 or USMNT. I forgot to ask if he played ODP. :)
Upon speaking to two division one coaches who were close friends of mine growing up-- Odp is not the answer to getting to college, but doesn't necessarily hurt your resume. In actuality, coaches understand who players are, have list of who they seek, and attempt to contact those people to see if they are interested. Also, many people can make advances and gain the interest of coaches by speaking to them. Though the coaches know who they generally would like, many people go unnoticed, and this is where camps, emailing, and inviting to events comes into play. The theory isn't very complex: if coaches aren't coming to you, you can go to them. And just because they aren't coming to you, doesn't mean you aren't that caliber player.
Simple: Build that soccer resume.
coaches sit around and try to decide whom to go see based on the limited info of soccer resumes laying in front of him or emails. Get the coach to notice and see you, then it is up to the player weather on ODP or DA or other top level.
What looks good(or stands out on a resume)?
Resumes aren't as important as being a piece that the coach could use for the future. Usually a resume could help get a coach to come see a player play, but really the coach looks for what would work best in the system now, and more importantly the future.
No Money in Women's soccer? - maybe that's changing. Keep in mind Horan is only 18 years old and she skipped out on college and it's scholarship.
"The value of a college scholarship outweighs nearly all of the professional contracts available to women at home and abroad. Horan’s deal was reported by one outlet to be worth a yearly salary in six figures."
Europe is starting to invest in the game and UEFA has made it a priority.
You still think ODP on the girls side is going to be good enough in a few years?
PS. Did you see all those new faces on Sunday in Portugal - the girls played nice.
Looking forward to the March 13 USA vs. Germany game in Portugal. Not a friendly this time.
Did anyone see the lineup for the 1-1 draw with Sweden? Was it the younger lineup again or did we go with the old timers?
10:21 Do the math.
Do not need to argue with you because I have two girls playing college soccer now. I know first hand the factor ODP played in their soccer careers thus far. Talking and chatting with dozens of coaches before they choose where to go, and now very good friends with one D1 coach that my youngest plays for.
Only at the older ages do the coaches value ODP, but they put a lot of importance in it at u-15 and up.
For some reason your daughter is not playing ODP, and that is ok. It is disappointing to have them play ODP at u-12 when most states have at least 3 teams or 66 plus players(some over a 100). At u-13, usually gets down to 45-50 players. at u-14 most states now down to 2 teams or less, and at u-15 one team of 18-20.
But when it gets to u-15 you can see it is extremely difficult and designed that way.
So, if she made it at u-12 and not u-13 or u-14 is because ......
With girls ODP, all players no matter what league can try out, unlike boys that have rules where DA does not allow ODP or H.S. participation.
My girls credit ODP and their ODP coaches/training and over-all experience to their love and success today playing D1.
With the two girls going through ODP, it has been a total of 7 years, and never heard an ODP player/or parent complain or regret the experience, but always the ones not in ODP like to throw stones.
Rider Cup and ODP ID Camp are incredible.
ok...so there is another tryout for the 2000 boys coming up. i am not sure what this try out is exactly for? does anyone know if it is to be selected to participate in the summer camp or is it the try out where the id the best players for the state team? very confused on this process...please someone help!
There is no academy system for girls, but ODP coaches are scouting girls that are not within ODP.
i was at a claasroom session with the US soccer womens youth development coach.
She talked about ODP, ECNL, and ID 2.
She said that they have girls from each group and actively scout from different tournaments. She had her scouts at an event , on the recomendation of coaches. This event allowed scouts to see many in one weekend. While there, a player caught some scouts eye. (Not a caoch recomendation) the player was "raw" but had speed determination, agression, however, needed more develoment. She actually contacted the girls state association and wanted this kid in the ODP program.
When pressed for which event that her scouts had attended that weekend, it happened to be an ECNL event. She stressed that they also go to premier tournaments to scout. Obviously they know that all of the top players do not always play ODP.
The east coast is behind! There are girls training centers in some states, including Texas, Colorado, etc. US Youth soccer's goal is to open training centers in NJ and Eastern PA, but it will take a while. So you have u13 girls that are already working at a training center with natuonal team coaches. Kind of sucks for us, right ?
Until then, they are going out to tournamnets to scout players. She stated that eventually all of their players will come from the training centers, and that in order to get into one, you must get recommended by your coach. They then will weed out players .
The point being, US soccer does not recomend 1 league over another, that not all the girls currently on youth national teams are from ODP, and, that the future on the girls side may be regionall training centers.
Until such time, It could not hurt to get your kid as much exposure as possible. If not on ODP, she will need to be a standout so that a coach will recommend her. If your kid is not recommended, she may still be impressing a scout that was there to see someone else.
ODP for girls is probably the way to go, especially if you have a lazy coach, or you are not playing in top tournaments or ECNL.
Decide which suits you, but the girls side is changing and who knows where it will wind up.
I'm sure somebody has posted an answer already, but...what is the cost of ODP for the year including travel? I see the schedule of events. $1,000 for state and several weekly practices. Then Region camp and mini camp $600 and $200. Plus I have to travel etc. This is more expensive than my son's team that practices and plays year round. Is it really worth it?
You need to read this entire thread and you'll have the answers. Varies by state, but cost is roughly $1,500, excluding travel costs -- assuming no financial assistance which is available.
I agree with some others that think that below U15, probably money is better spent on other things. But for girls, it's good to have on resume, etc. -- especially U15 and above. And good exposure to college coaches at that level. It might be worth the money earlier for certain good players on below avg. teams that otherwise are not getting the high level competition in training, games.
$1500.00
Training-15 sessions- top trainers and college coaches. Evaluations are being done in training and of course games.
Training w/some of the best players in state.
Training done on premier fields so as to have all 15 sessions(no cancellations) guaranteed training.
specialized training- a few sessions special position training by special trainers/coaches.
Games- 2 tournaments- VA Friendlies and the Prestigious Rider Cup with many college recruiters and exposure at the highest. 2 Sets of uniforms included for player to keep.
Now the best part-
ODP ID Camp- 5 day camp with Nationally known trainers and coaches on college campus- Rhode Island University. Being evaluated
for ODP National pools etc.. also visited by recruiting college coaches to identify prospects at u-15 and above. Outstanding camp for individual development.
all included.
Does not include travel costs, but includes tournament fees..
So do the Math.....
ID Camp alone is $600 plus
Uniforms-? $150
Tournament fees- $50
training sessions- $45 each
Wow! No price on the life long friendships and contacts made,
or the exposure and use of ODP on that college soccer resume.
Every state a little different.
Thanks for the very informative post 2:58PM. $1,500 plus travel is about what I pay for our team. That gives me well over 50 training sessions and half a dozen tournaments....well above 15 and 2 respectively...and also spring and fall league play. Good trainer and good team so fairly high level of both. We are still a couple years away from the age ODP ID camp would have any impact for colleges, but that sounds like a BIG plus that might be worth it on its own. Is there a benefit to the camp for younger ages? I am kind of grappling with a reason to double my soccer expenses at this younger age. I don't need aid, but I also don't want to aimlessly throw money at something that may not have a tangible benefit for a couple years. I have to imagine others are making similar decisions. Any input appreciated.
i sent my son to rutger's camp last summer for the week
500.00
food
lodging
they did three 2 hour training sessions each day , with the rutger's staff and team plus other coaches from local colleges help with the training
and he got a t-shirt and a ball . do the research first boys odp is not what it use to be
Would agree that ODP for girls is excellent and a huge plus for the soccer resume. Especially in the current environment of sooooo many leagues, ODP has stayed consistent and highly recognized by colleges on the girls side.
On the boys, well much different. Will not do ODP NEXT year with my son.
ODP should keep making the girls side great and even better in concentrating it's efforts all on the girls.
12:03
what age is your child?
What do you have to give up to do ODP? All club play?
thanks
Thank you for your interest and any potential insight. 12. I don't have to give up club play for it. I wouldn't consider that. It does look like Tues. night practices through May will conflict with club practices on that day AND it is well over an hour away from us in northern NJ.
There was talk about splitting out a North and South team. I am curious if that will occur because almost 2-3hrs regular weeknight round-trips has to be too much for most any north NJ kid to consider. I also don't understand the selection process for the Regional team after training with the state team.
12:03 asks "Is there a benefit to ODP at younger ages?" In your case, I would say likely NO, given that you qualified the question by saying you already have good training/coaching and on a good team which is presumably getting good competition on a regular basis. In my opinion, the main benefit is the id part, which is more relevant later. Also, it's not just about the money, you should consider burnout & injury risk -- and at the early ages, there can be a big disparity in size depending on physical development.
ODP is extremely beneficial for u-13 and up. Great professional setting and training.A wonderful learning experience and prepares for when it really matters at u-15.
But like any money making organization in youth soccer, does not matter until u-13.
Doesn't matter until U13? It basically doesn't begin until U-13 (current '00s). So you are just saying ODP is extremely beneficial at any age group.
ODP. Not one of these players will make the National team. I would bet on it. That says nothing about the players or the program, but says plenty about the competition and number of available spots available. They dont take a new team every year.
How do the next round of cuts work? Website says that the players will be chosen on the 12th but how many get to move on?
18 players-to make a team
So only 18 '00 move forward?
Depends on the state. All is there on your state website.
If you say only 18 make the team, that means 15 because NJ takes 3 goalkeepers almost every time. I'm sure it's more than 18
Usually 20-22 and correct on the 3 keeps
I saw for 96 25 field players (around) and 3 keepers...Does that mean all keepers are on and basically 6-8 kids are cut from the field team? It's amazing the depletion in numbers. A few years ago that same group had well over a hundred before academy play.
NJ ODP is the old gang that can't shoot straight. Almost every part of the process has major flaws. Check in Never goes smoothly. (Two different color shirts for no reason). Paperwork is delivered via regular mail (No technology used). Announcing of the players who make the teams is always late, unless there is money on the line. Field conditions are 2nd rate, if not 3rd rate. No parking for the practices at TCNJ. Very little communication. No newsletter to the state players naming/marketing the people who made the team. Coaching is done by quality professionals who would proabably rather be coaching the best jids in the state but will not due to attrition of the better players.
NJYS soccer needs to reach out to the best teams in the state at each age group and request that each of the top 15 teams send their top 5-6 players to ODP tryouts for no cost. Have those 50 girls be evaluated by outside eyes, on good fields, where they could actally see if a player has the requisite skills. That would make for a tremendous team that NJ could be proud of.
ODP is excellent with other states. Has a great reputation with colleges and development. Not sure why NJ can not get it right.
When a parent spends a lot of money on a club team with the coach promising and assuring the parent if you kid plays with me he/she does not need ODP. Just crazy that parents want to believe anything not to spend another dime.
Waaaay too much politics involved in NJ ODP. Has been for years. When parents know the coaches, directors, etc. and chit chat at the tryouts, it's flawed from the start.
Also 10:58 makes a good point about reaching out to top teams and players, however, the coaches specifically tell the players ODP IS NOT A PRIORITY. If there is a conflict with a team practice/game, etc. ODP comes second. So this will not work.
So how is it the tryouts this week TCNJ were on such positively horrible fields for the 98’s and others? Of all the great locations in NJ they could not play on turf and find something better? I also see that this is where all the training sessions will be if selected for the next round? Could not even find a place with parking! Really bizzare how the guy manning the parking lot stopped letting people in, but there were probably 15 spaces left. It is all so weird. Did I really read it right that if my son is selected it is a minimum of $1600 more?? Can anyone share what the reference to the round robin tournament is in FL? Is this really a one day tournament in Florida? I want to help my son do something positive here, but I am pretty sick over the whole experience thus far. Oh and yes, still love the multi-colored clown t-shirts. Looks like a three ring circus out there. God I wish someone from ODP had the balls to comment or respond to some of the items so many on here have been talking about.
Florida for one day? Cant be possible. Who would do it? Who would think it was remotely close to a good idea? Can anyone shed light onto this?
They would have to care about something besides money to respond.
slow down cowboy, they may not ask your son to go!
i am a new parent to ODP in NJ. i agree that the location of the parking and the fields were less than ideal. fields were okay. she has cetainly played on better and worse. nice that they keep it in central NJ as not to add an unreasonable amount of travel for those very north and very south.
my daughter is a keeper. i counted 29 keepers so on average 7 for each age. my daughter was told they would take 2 for her group so contradicts the 3 that was said here.
i have heard how training gets cancelled for weather and never made up. i would hope that the kids get what the parents are paying for. i see that other states and NJ boys recently went to a tournament. not sure why the NJ girls were not involved. i have a friend whose daughter was involved in ODP in a midwest state and he raves about the experiences and coaching she had. i am not hearing that from anyone in NJ?
is what i have heard correct? once they make the state team, they then have to be invited to the Region 1 camp in July? or does the whole team go? thanks
Boys and girls are a completely different game. Can someone shed light on the 2 or 3 goalkeepers per age because I see boys almost always taking 3 to the team
boys and girls are all accepted to NJ ODP. nothing different there. there is no reason that one should compete in a march tournament over the other. do the boys pay more because they did the tournament? did they have training sessions before the tournament? pay more for that?
are boys favored just because they are boys? does it have something to do with the coaches? really just curious
Va Friendlies that Nj girls did not go to is nothing more then state teams getting together and playing soccer. Scores are not recorded and do not matter. (Friendlies). Most of the attending states are local to VA. MD,VA,NC,DE,PA and Conn did go.
Fun weekend of soccer that's all.
Rider Cup is where it is at. On the girls side there will be over 100 college coaches watching the older age groups. Winning teams continue to compete for Regional and Nationals.
To conduct a proper evaluation, shouldnt there be at least 5 evaluators on each field. They shouldnt be on the sideline where they really cant see what is happening unless it is directly in front of them. Wouldnt this just make sense?
Sure, on the field and in the way.
5 evaluators running around trying not to get hit. Could be a new game? Soccer Dodgeball.
A good coach is watching the players WITHOUT the ball.
Use your head, they dont need to sit together and all have the same view.
have you been to ODP evals ? if you get two evaluators for four games you are lucky. they don't need a lot of them becuae 90% of the team is already chosen before the tryouts.
not sure how they would chose them before tryouts, please enlighten me.
Aren't tryout results supposed to be posted today?? Anyone know anything about that it have updates. Need to know for some planning. Thanks
Yes
Thanks. Hope my son makes it, but $100 a session on nasty fields, then another $600 for Rider, then more in top of that. Pretty hard to stomach. Anyone have thoughts on this.
No agenda, no bashing...here are my thoughts...
my boy made the '98 NJ state team last year and it was a great experience...would I do it again no.
Pros
great on the resume
play with some great players
good (not great) training sessions
sleep away camps are great
connections with some top coaches
Cons
Cost, cost, cost
practice fields are way too far for north jersey
good training (not great)
NJ is poorly run compared to other states
(here it comes conspiracy theorists)
Good chance players for regional pool are already predetermined before one regional pool game is played. The day you sign in for regional pool camp there is a roster for the showcase game that night.
So did your son go through the process this year?
like I said...great experience, but would not do it again.
Why has the process changed?
From the posts on here, it doesnt seem it.
Congrats to all the players who made the final NJ teams!
My daughter loves ODP. She loves that she can go there work her hardest and be recognized for her effort and determination. No team cliques no Club directors or Coaches favorites, pure soccer. Soccer played with and against other dedicated players making the same sacrifices and commitment she has.
Please don’t allow the ODP process to be corrupted. Tryouts with each girl on her own away from team or Coach favoritism is the only true assessment of these players. Girls on their own assessed by ODP coaches. Please don’t allow big clubs to take over ODP. If the process is taken away you will be left with girls with parents that scream the loudest and girls that are directors or coach favorites. ODP teams will no longer be girls assessed on their own ability. Watching or “scouting” is a reflection on how a coach has labeled a player and how he plays her with who and team dynamics. A players’ ability cannot be recognized within these constraints. I have seen over and over players labeled on their own teams go to ODP and shine. This process is real it can be seen. A player can see where she is in her ability and how she measures against other players. There has been talk that the selection process of tryouts will be discontinued.
Please don’t allow the ODP process to be made a process of club and coaches favorites. Please don’t allow the heartache of those that didn’t make the cut a lesson in Politics.
For years, I have been told that ODP is flawed by politiics.
I argued with the critics and said "It is still a good program... and great experience for the player".
At this point if the tryout process is abandoned... I have no argument ... I would have to agree with the critics. It is no longer a pure and ethical process.
Not sure where you got that information but big clubs or name coaches/trainers at this point do control the ODP process. If you are a standout you will make it, but if you are not one of the top 10% all tie breakers will go to that kid that plays for PDA or MF etc. That tie breaker will go to the player that is trained by (fill in the name). It happens. If you dont see it, you are not paying attention.
what I have experienced her in Region 3 is College coaches and x college coaches conducting tryouts. We have never known any name club coaches/trainers like you refer too. My daughter has made the cut more than once here. I am referring to the selection process in Florida. There is talk the tryout process will be eliminated. Thus my previous comment
Please don’t allow the ODP process to be made a process of club and coaches favorites.
For years, I have been told that ODP is flawed by politiics.
I argued with the critics and said "It is still a good program... and great experience for the player".
At this point if the tryout process is abandoned... I have no argument ... I would have to agree with the critics. It is no longer a pure and ethical process.
Like you, making the team isnt the issue. Seeing who does, is. It is laughable to say the least.
Each state is different, which leads to the confusion on blogs and such. As a whole, speaking only on the girls side, ODP is an incredible experience. Not only has she gotten great exposure in ODP, but now some college coaches are coming to her Region 1 Premier league games to watch her, which benefits and opens up opportunities for other girls on her NPL team.
The ODP team is being trained by current college coaches/trainers that also have written letters and references for the players.
I look at all the wasted money spent on youth soccer to club fees/ admin fees,team fees, travel expenses for coaches, and I hear the ecnl coach now makes $20,000 a team.Sharing fields and coaches/trainers but paying for it.
Coaches being rotated etc..
ODP is consistent for one Spring season and June Rider Cup/Regional play. 15 training sessions at an all weather facility with guaranteed training sessions taking place at same location at same time. Same coaches/trainers every week in and week out. Uniforms included with warm-up with State logo Olympic Development Program logo.Warm-up
friendly in Williamsburg and Rider Cup attended by 100's of college coaches at u-15 above group.
ID Camp at a college campus with elite training and continued exposure to other college coaches that attend.Camp alone is well worth the ODP Fees.
Opportunities to get further exposure and selection in Regional and National pools with International play.
Is it perfect? No. But it is tax deductible. Can even get a sponsor for your player.But, seriously my daughters think the world of ODP and how it advanced their exposure and play. My middle girl did not make it, and I am not bitter.
How is it tax deductible?
To the State-non profit. Even tax deductible for a sponsor on grand parent. Can take out of retirement-401k etc..with out penalties.
Forms on state website. state will issue a letter of payment.
8:47: Don't delude yourself. ODP is very political as is all youth soccer. PDA coaches are notorious for running/evaluating ODP and those that aren't PDA know certain parents and then select them. Evaluators know certain club/team coaches and pick their favorites.
It is unfortunate but it, like all youth sports, is tainted to some degree.
Check out the 98 team and u will see proof
Sorry your kid got cut.
Only ones complaining about ODP are the ones not playing ODP.
Going through ODP with two girls that will play college, it is awesome. ODP EXPERIENCE is a lifetime experience for them. great life lessons and wonderful friends and families as well as a great relationship with coaches.
Hey 2:36, maybe some of the complaining comes from those that got cut but not all. My negative opinions and thoughts come from a "my kid" made it perspective. I would like to see a true evaluation process and not have academy kids make it because it looks good for ODP. I would like to see the right kids make it over the who you know folks. You see, my goal would be to put the best team on the field, unlike others.
Tough to evaluate over 1, 2 or even 3 days of 11/2 hour tryouts. Someone always makes it that should not and of course a few fall short that should've been included.
I have heard of blind tryouts. That might work since no one would know anyone , and just go by the numbers.
My son's team had a game last Tuesday and a few boys that played ODP missed the practice for the club's game. Can anyone fill me in on what went on? Was it just a training session or more?
ODP believes the club team is the player's home team , and player should always play games for home team.
Someone asked about VA friendlies vs. first (summer) tryouts vs. final (spring) tryouts, when to play "A" game.
My kid did outstanding, to the point of various coaches congratulating him including the final team coach, at the first tryouts and the VA friendlies (he got a goal and several assists, and his team scored only a few more than that). He did okay in the final tryout, but was hit in the eye near the beginning of it so missed a few key plays. He was cut from the final team.
Therefore, I would say in our experience, your A game is for the final tryouts, and the other tryout is to just manage to get in (which is easy for most players on top 20 teams) and the VA friendlies mean nothing.
(and also, last year's performance on the final ODP means nothing, my son got full games and great stats, but apparently it didn't matter.)
YMMV.
YMMS,
Sorry your kid got cut. You can now join the ODP bashing with all the cut parents.
Sounds like you and you boy had a great experience with ODP and returned to try out again.
ODP bashing by cut parents - funny.
What is ODP's primary purpose to make money?
To identify players for national teams?
To get players into College?
You seem to know it all - Lets talk soccer globally and how ODP helps our NT teams.
On the boys side - it doesn't unless your kid is in a region with no DA. On the girls side, worked well when the rest of the world didn't care about Womens soccer - now we are not on the top by ourselves anymore are we, since Europe has started investing in the girls game.
or Do you still want to deflect and talk about it's great for college exposure and all the bashing is by parents of kids who got cut not people who understand the game beyond our borders.
I will admit that my child did get cut. Not the end of the world, however I will easily admit that some of the players chosen over him got picked because of where they play. They are not good players and who you know did come into play for them.
Did you ever hear of Neven Subotic??
He played for both the USMNT u17 and u20 teams and we lost him because a coach thought he wasn't ready for the big time. OMG!!!!
Keep talking about world soccer, while ODP gives players here an avenue to exposure to college.
Going to college and playing soccer at D1,2,3 is awesome.Parents make it about scholarship, but the girls just want to keep playing at the highest level possible.
Like it or not, ODP gives them that chance and many opportunities.
Didn't USA win the gold in the last Olympics, and the one before.
College recruit questionires specifically ask and want ODP EXPERIENCE. Build the best soccer resume possible and they will come.
ODP bashing and ODP honesty are two different things. When you look at the "resume" of an ODP coach, and all he has is that he ran the Lawrenceville club and coached travel teams, you have to wonder who he slept with to get to be an ODP coach.
Like many "academy" clubs, they hide the USSF license level, they rotate coaches, and they run the bare bones of a program that "used to" produce top players.
We will be back, because for us it was a crapshoot; two years it was great, one year it was not.
If ODP works for you, great. ODP seems to be much better on the girls side (are coaches more consistent?).
But when I see posts about "no cliques" I have to laugh. Certainly on the boys side you will see 4 or more final team players from the same team, and they got there by excluding other kids in the final tryouts.
ODP is definitely worth trying, especially on the girls side. No kid will lose out on national team play if they don't do ODP. They will be found. My "not good enough for ODP" player is being recruited by multiple top D1 college teams, so apparently their standards are lower than ODP?
Good thing about college recruiting is that they aren't depending on a small number of tryouts, they look at REAL games.
Agree with most. ODP great for Girls. Tryouts are a crap shoot for any top level when just 2 or 3 11/2 hour sessions are available. At the older ages the coaches know a good amount of the players from their team history. Not always fair, but what happens.
ie. College Coach goes to see a GIRL play and she looks great and he decides he wants her.......
Player not what expected and plays little if at all as a Freshmen, and not offered any money to return, but could if she wants to still play without any scholarship money.
When coach saw her, her team dominated and outplayed the other team.So it does not work sometimes with Colleges either.
That is interesting. I thought I was seeing things but bringing groups of players in does happen. I am sure they are all good enough players and the difference is negligible between those that make it and those that dont.
Too many people look for a "soccer scholarship" when the truth is schools barely give out these coveted scholarships. Getting good grades and being at a college soccer level will get you the money everyone wants, very few will receive a full ride just for their skill alone.
Build the soccer resume. Have great grades and good SAT's. Stay healthy and injury free. Enjoy and have passion.
Came home yesterday and my great soccer talent daughter on computer all afternoon and evening with friends(what normal girls do), my other daughter(not quiet as talented yet) outside kicking and juggling etc. for three hours.
Both will play college soccer, but only one will play her Junior/Senior year
I don't think anyone thinks that ODP "develops" our USWNT -- or development is not the main objective. It's mainly a program to identify. Development mainly happens, or not, at the club level where they spend most of their time. I think you hit nail on the head re: OPD past failures, but I also think they might be on right path to correcting those issues and hopefully not missing or overlooking the types of players needed for future success. Perhaps rethinking the balance of athleticism, smarts & technical skills needed for future success and for the style of play aimed for.
With US Club Soccer and it's NPL growth mixed in with the ECNL clubs - the Girls side might not have a DA - but - I believe id2 will have all the top talent - ODP will be dealing with left over talent to identify a handfull of girls in a year or two. Which is okay - more opportunities for kids to be seen.
But since ODP is only used to "identify" talent for USWNT and the top clubs "develop" this top talent and most of the top clubs are joining ECNL and NPL leagues- then is it only a matter of time for the Colleges to change direction and to start looking at id2 "MORE" than ODP?
"I believe id2 will have all the top talent - ODP will be dealing with left over talent to identify a handful of girls in a year or two"
I think that is ECNL's hope and strategy. But it is unlikely or if it does happen it will be over a much longer time period. Secondly, the top clubs don't have a monopoly on developing talent -- even less so today than perhaps in the past. Coaches develop talent and it depends on which clubs the best coaches affiliate with -- which may not be a "top club" as determined by ECNL.
I think the success of the ECNL model depends on the top talent eventually choosing an ECNL club over non-ECNL. What has been said before is that at the moment, like other leagues, ECNL has very uneven quality with some good teams, some average, and some bad teams. Despite the growth of ECNL, there remains significant top talent not playing ECNL, which is why ODP and USYS leagues like top regional leagues and National League are still relevant and college coaches pay attention. I even saw that last year's U14 ECNL national champion team moved to USYS club. Also, I think many top ECNL players dual roster to play in USYS events -- like National League. And I think even ECNL does something similar allowing top players from non ECNL clubs to guest play.
Many ecnl players dual roster so they can play state cup and such. Ecnl tries to tie the hands of players by not allowing ecnl to play state cup or HS.
ODP is open to all that are talented enough to be selected.No rules or hand tying, just identifying the best possible players to move onto Regional and National teams to compete internationally.
ODP ID Camp probably the best possible place a player can get college exposure for 4 days. Now even ODP ID2 through Super Y is getting great reviews by colleges.
Comes down to soccer resume and a college coach choosing a player and selling that player to the Board of Regents of the school for more then the standard 1/4 scholarship. So , if a player wants more money then the standard 1/4 scholarship, playing on the best team(TOP 5 in country) and having the soccer resume over others. ODP ID Camp, ODP ID2 Camp,
and of course having the honor of being selected on a Regional and/or National team seals the deal.
Certainly other ways , but this is a well proven path with over 3/4 of all WNT and Olympic teams coming through ODP.
Again, colleges specifically ask for ODP EXPERIENCE on their recruit questionnaires. If you do not having any, a player better be on a top 5 or 10 team.
How are the 96/97 parents feeling about their ODP experience? Interested as to what they do in the upper age groups.
My son is 97, and he's made ODP final pool off and on since he was 12 (not really a final pool that age though). The problem is the same as others list. They bring in four or five players from a top team, players who are cliquey and leave out teammates. The experience is a good resume builder, and as usual we'll try again, but the expectations are low even if he gets to the final pool again.
However, he is in final tryouts with two DA teams, and both the ODP and HS soccer experiences have sent him to that path. I suggest DA programs over club soccer, ODP, and HS soccer, unless the player is devoted to his HS team.
The DA program has taken most of the talent out of tge boys NJ ODP (many former regional ODP players on DA teams now), so once your son is 14, you have to look at DA programs in my opinion. Both paths are good, but DA is looking to be a lot better in terms of exposure to college recruiters and national team scouts.
12:56
ODP is a resume builder and some players need it to get better looks. Others are great and play ODP for the experience not the resume. If starting on a top DA program, do not need anything else for boys.
For girls ODP is very important to further their career. ODP is better then ecnl and cheaper without the restrictions and control of ecnl.
Top GIRL player with ODP EXPERIENCE
writes her own ticket and generally gets more money for school because coach can sell her resume to Board of Regents.
Totally agree. ODP is an extra supplement to players resume and sometimes International experience.
ecnl is limited, granted they do have some very good teams, but most are just average, while ODP is the icing on the cake for players sealing the deal for college scholarships that are more then just the 1/4 token scholarship.
NJ used to have a LOT of international opportunities for their final pool teams: no more. Other states do send their ODP teams abroad occasionally. It seems that NJ does not care about its ODP program, other than continually increasing the cost to try out and play ODP.
I certainly think it is nuts for people from Upper Saddle River or Atlantic City to drive to Trenton for the "opportunity". However, the Atlantic City player would have it difficult, and might have to travel far to get a decent team.
ODP is really a waste, even those still doing it know this deep in their hearts. Look around, we all know many players better than the ones our child is playing next to on ODP.
I'll disagree with the statement that it's a waste. My son is a 98 and is benefitting by playing with some different kids every week. He can step outside the way he's IDd by his regular team and try some different roles. I didn't have many expectations going in, but am pleasantly surprised. My son even looks forward to going and he doesn't like anything these days...
for the few that get identified and play for the regional and national pool, it is not a waste of time. it is another path of discovery.
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