wait..is @1:04 saying that the ODP team would smash a his/her local academy?Excuse me while I ROFL. In my area its Red Bulls and PDA are the big academies. Are you saying the NJ ODP team would smash them? That's the most asinine thing I have ever heard. Tell me I read your post wrong.While I am at it @1:07, of course it would be great to do something like ECNL AND ODP, but your your talking about an easy 10-12K expense.For most families, it's not an endless bucket of money.
I do not believe the relevance of ODP has decreased because of leagues (as many are saying)but rather because of newer competing programs. ID2 - USclubsoccer created ID2 which serves the same purpose as ODP Positives:It is free, It offers the same exposure level to US Soccer federation representatives as ODP. Negatives: It is not open to all potential candidates are recommended by Clubs leaving more politics to get your foot in the door than ODP.US Soccer training Centers - US Soccer Federation created US soccer Training Centers to both offer High level training and direct evaluation for Youth National team programsPositives: Created and staffed directly by US soccer federation representatives. US Soccer training centers are periodic training run throughout the year offering both high level training and direct evaluation for Youth National team inclusion. US Soccer training Centers are free.Negatives - No open tryout, you must be recommended by a club DOC or identified by US Soccer Federation Staff to receive an Invite. This is a very grey area of how to get an invite. US Soccer does note that if a club recommends players not up to the expected quality level it will eventually reduce their ability to recommend additional players.ODP - The original USYouth Soccer Identification Program.Positives: ODP is all inclusive anybody can attend if they can afford it. Leads to eventual evaluation by US Soccer federation.Negatives: ODP costs a fair amount to participate and more money to move to regional level. It is not until regional levels that any US Soccer federation representatives are involved/interested.My Opinions - ODP is not Dead or irrelevant, rather it is less relevant that it was 5-10 years ago. I have heard that the Boys side of ODP is less relevant than the girls side but have no first hand knowledge so I am including that in the "opinion" area. ODP has been a huge money maker for USYouth Soccer, however there are now other players in "ID" market so they really need to revisit their cost vs. benefit.
I think you are pretty close to right @1232However, I will say that the first most gorls got a USSF invitation was through the "national ODP" camp at U13. Most of the first U14s were first national ODP camp invitees. After the first few camps there were more added through regional U14 ECNL events like the big showcase in Greer SC.USSF scouts are very visible at ECNL events sitting between the coaches at midfield with their US Soccer garb on display. They are also very visible at the thanksgiving interregional, national league events and at USYSA nationals.Last year for perspective: ODP Boca Raton interregional $375 for lodging (jammed 4 in a room, but they didn't seem to mind), most food (lunches not included) transportation from airport and from hotel to venue and back and training and coaching. I paid about $350 for airfare. I sent $200 with my child for lunch and t-shirts. I didn't ask for the change back so my bad. I didn't go myself as there was excellent supervision and the kids are required to stay with the team. Seattle was a lot more expensive. $520 airfare, $1400 hotel and the food was pretty expensive. Have to stay in team assigned lodging or we could have done it cheaper. I went although I might have been able to have one of the other parents take my kid.ODP is definitely cheaper than ECNL, but the combination has worked for my kid. Though I don't consider the entire process a business venture, she will have an excellent ROI on her choices. She will have a substantial (>75%) athletic scholarship to a major top University to help us carry forward her education and soccer. We aren't sure whether she will qualify ultimately for Academic to fill in the rest or not yet.
@ 10:54, is everyone on this discussion board supposed to be from New Jersey? I think that makes a huge difference in the discussion because you may be experiencing something in New Jersey for your ODP versus DA program where as someone else in a different part of the country may have an entirely different experience. I think we all need to be careful of taking an experience that might be specific to one city and then universalizing that to the entire country,, or so objective observer's would suggest.
Why is always one program vs the other? They all are good in differnet ways.Yes, DA is the top for recruitment and is pretty much a golden ticket recruiting wise, coaches line up for the acadewmy showcase and lots recruited there pretty easily. Yes and the DA players range from really good to superb (not all DA clubs/coaches the same in what they look for ie true talent vs just built like a tank)That said, the DA has like 2% of HS age players, and to say all the other 98% cant play or not worthy for college years later is ridiculous- if you look at the DA teams for example they are the stronget athletes, that's fine , but others mature later, or don't join da for a variety of reasons.ODP is a viable option if your not on DA at the time, if your talented and get ID's it is absolutely great to say in email to college coach and will often put you in the most looked at group in college camps- my own kid is of that age and tons of times his group "happened" to be filled with DA/Odp players and "happened" to be with the head coach.I don't have a girl, but know others on it and yes arelike DA is good competition and exposure- but of course there are plenty of non ecnl girls that have good talent or will by college age.Bottom line DA and ECNL make it easier to get notice (ie prescreened and college know you play at certain level) followed by ODP then high school honors (of course if all American or something is as good or better then DA).Of course bottom line is if you can play best coaches don't care if you come from the moon- if you are truly that good and fell through the cracks/mature late whatever and are the top few at a college camp that coaches will take you - but will have to really stand out as coaches prob haven't haerd of you before ( and they look at others they heard of more closely).
11:02 maybe I'm on the wrong board - but "Olympic" Development Program to me is about NT players not college. I know these programs help kids get noticed by schools that's a given.So when I talk DA vs ODP vs HS I am talking best talents for NT not college. maybe I thought this board was for talking about our NTs and how we develop our future stars.
Almost a week still no comment? So when we talk "Olympic" development which is the better option?Boys DA vs ODPECNL vs ODPWe know the more opportunities to play in front of colleges the better the chances of getting to a school your grades would normally not get you into. because the fact is any premier soccer player with great grades can get accepted to any school they want on an academic scholarship and then 'walk on"to the soccer field and make the team. So when we talk college, like I said I agree ODP is another option to get some cash.
Confused - need some advice please. My son who is starting his senior year in H.S. has been playing soccer since the age of 6 and he is a die-hard serious, committed player. He has played middle school soccer and is entering his 4th year of high school soccer this August. He has got to be one of the most respectful high school students you can come across because I can assure you that if you were to meet him he would respond always with a polite "yes sir", "thank you sir", etc. He is also an active elite club soccer player, has been training monthly 3 hours way with ODP college coaches and made the state's ODP team for 2015 and also made it to ODP Region III camp this summer at the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa. Additionally, he also spent a week at a top University soccer camp with college coaches from the southeast and played at the super fast college soccer pace.Despite all of his accomplishments, great soccer talent which has been recognized by other coaches, the H.S. coach continues to treat him as a second class player. Today at the 4th day of practice for the new season, he called who would be "starters" and he was NOT included. The starters consist of mostly non-dedicated players who play soccer just for H.S. once a year, a "soccer star" considered as such by the coach who gives him privileges such as not having to run miles or do certain drills and even being able to show up late to practice, and a few sophomores he is moving up to Varsity. It is ironic my son was showing today at the field the players how to do certain drills done in club soccer but in the end, he will not be starting! We consider this a loud and clear slap in the face. Our thought is our son should just quit the H.S. team - not only is this one of the worst H.S. soccer teams in the State, but because it is much slower paced than both club soccer and ODP, it really does nothing for him as a player other than demoralize him. He already put up with this last year and despite his further soccer accomplishments, this coach will never recognize him for the soccer player he is. This coach does not care that he is sitting down on the bench a member of his state's ODP team. Our son says he will give the coach one more week to see if anything changes and otherwise he will quit. We support him wholeheartedly and would love to hear what your thoughts are with regards to such a situation. Other than blatant shutting out - we can't understand what it can be other than playing favorites. What would you do? Are you thinking like us, just quit and move on? Thanks in advance.
Quit and move on. I've seen this happen before. The coach refuses to recognize true talent and plays down. Not worth your son's time.
There are pros and cons to every high school program but the way I see it soccer is soccer. Some kids will jump at every opportunity to play and if your son isn't one of those kids then fine, maybe he'd like to focus on school or other training programs. But, high school is an inexpensive way to have fun with the kids he socializes with and play soccer. It can be frustrating when a coach doesn't recognize your child's talent. I'm in the same boat as you, a child with ODP and high level soccer experience, but isn't getting the minutes on varsity. It only motivates my child more. High school soccer can be annoying, but it also can be learning experience for your son. Hope that helps.
Actually had a coach tell me that she's never seen anything like this particular R1 camp. Very young coaches, preferring to take size over talent - incredible. In fact, the two goalkeepers taken on the 02 team could hardly catch a ball, yet both were very tall. I'm not sure what the thought process is now, but ODP is looking much less impressive.
That might be an aberration as your coach told you. The 2000 ODP team is a mix of small technical players and bigger players. Both GK are excellent. Sorry your kid wasn't chosen, but would try again next year since the coaches change from year to year as do their personal preferences in players. Plus kids definitely develop over the following year to a greater or lesser degree depending on many factors including coaching, drive, and puberty. The top 10 or so at all these camps are easy to identify, the next 8 are all on personal subjective preferences and luck. At 02, the pool is pretty big about 70 kids. I don't believe they only took 2 keepers.
2:55, that is your side of the story. Clearly there is something missing, right? Coaches first priority is to win and as such will put the players on the field that will help him WIN. He does not feel your son can help him.
No sir this is exactly why I am shocked. If my son made all the cuts over 6 months and made the states ODP team and was selected to the ODP region 3 camp as well as playing elite club soccer obviously this high school coach probably has maybe a personality issue against him that's the only thing that could explain this because as I previously mentioned, he has put on the starting line up many players who only play high school soccer during soccer season in high school and do not play club soccer or practice throughout the year. If your comment is true then the ODP coaches and club soccer coaches were blind in recognizing my son's talent.
Or rather I should say maybe were "wrong" in thinking my son was talented to make the state's ODP team as well as the club soccer Coaches who accepted him into the club team after he tried out.
The PA girls program is decent. Most of the best players are trying to get to the regional team. There can be inconsistency in the state roster. The cost for the Boca interregional is very reasonable $375+ airfare(about $400). There are quite a few ECNL players who participate. For the older age groups it might be a late time to get great exposure. Most college recruiting questionaires still include regional ODP as an accomplishmnet.
NJ ODP list is out.....hopefully they got it right this time with their choice of players. http://www.njyouthsoccer.com/clubsite/?p=4751
IS PDA ALL IT IS CRACKED UP TO BE? I get asked this question a lot and I have rarely ever given my opinion in this matter, Till PDA Shore came online. Being a product of an Academy myself, I'm familiar with the pros and cons of the business.I have done a lot of extensive research on this topic. I've trained with professional club teams in Europe and have coached for the past 15 years. PDA is a business and the goal is simple. Recruit better players each year, provide training and have the business bottom line grow. I personally do not believe a player should play one sport all year at an early age. U8, U9 is way to young. I do feel academies at ages of U12+ are a fantastic avenue to develop skills for the future. Parents get caught up in all the hype when a child is young and don't what to let a child fall behind (this just isn't true. Look at the soccer age development bell curve done by US Soccer). All the professional research says playing one sport at an early age hurts a child's development and can lead to injuries, social and mental issues later in life. Interesting statistic is 85% of all college scholarships players, played multi sports growing up. Majority of the major soccer academies in the world promote other sports. AFC Ajax, FC Barcelona, Arsenal to name a few (Basketball and Tennis seem to be the favorites). This is done for 2 reasons. Develop other body movements, balance and eye hand coordination. I was told these sports were key not just for developing great soccer players but keeping soccer fun, so the kids don't get burned out. If I had to choose an Academy The 2 Academies that I do feel give world class training are- Cedar Stars NJ- Atletico FCI'm very interested to see how the MLS academies will develop. This might be a better option moving forward. I have had a high level of respect for PDA North development in the past. As for PDA Shore PDA Shore has a few world class coaches (one former professional, one who played in Germany at a very high level), the others are a round up of average at best trainers from a club that has been on the decline for the past 5 years. The training is very old English, play how you face that went out long ago. The club was most likely selected for 2 quality teams it had. The Cons,1. Most children possibly be burnt out and be replaced 2. Big rosters and the bottom 4 will normally be dropped each year 3. Only about 2 players that start with Academy teams at a young age U8&U9 will make it to THE U13& Older teams. But if your business can make an extra $250,000 why not.4. All that matters is winning and will play lesser competition just to look better then everyone else. This is to attract better players and move up.5. Parents will pay thousands of dollars a year6. Players are put in a certain field position to win, and not to grow as a player7. Some clubs consistently beat academy teams - just look at gotsoccer.com rankings The Pros1. Better training at most club levels 2. Wearing cool uniforms 3. Great competition platform later in a teens developmentInteresting read below about the top academies in the worldhttp://www.ecaeurope.com/Research/ECA%20Report%20on%20Youth%20Academies/ECA%20Report%20on%20Youth%20Academies.pdf
Hi! As I've read through this blog, I realize most of your kids already play at a higher lever than my 11 year old daughter, but I'm here because we are working toward better competition for her. She is the sole goalkeeper for her premier club team and has been for 3 years. I know many don't agree with kids this young being only keepers, but it was just how it worked out when we moved here, didn't know anyone and needed a team to join. She absolutely loves the position and has trained frequently with local college goalkeeper coaches. Just last week we took her to her first ODP tryout, having no idea what to expect from other keepers on a bigger scale from what we've seen. We were pleasantly surprised to find she absolutely dominated out of the other 7 U12 and U13 keepers there. 2nd tryout before first round of cuts is this weekend. I guess what I'm asking is for any kind of input on what to expect from here on out, since we don't know anyone else who has gone this route. Still learning about all the other elite-type clubs and want to give her the best opportunities we can to help her live up to her potential! Thanks in advance!
Get her to an ECNL club with a great keeper coach.
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The Eastern PA ODP tryouts finish up this Sunday. I'm wondering how many girls in the 2002 and 2003 age group will continue to do ODP? Many in this group are on high level club teams where the competition at club practice is better than ODP competition. What is everyone thinking with this?How is NJ ODP?
With respect to EPYSA ODP, representation in each age group differs somewhat by club, but all the top teams have some level of participation. You will find ECNL players along with players that might be on teams that compete on a level not much higher than rec, which is good. Not all of the talented kids have the time and other resources to devote to ECNL level play, but may be just as good or better than ECNL players, so ODP provides a platform for them to be seen. Players do tend to fall away from ODP at the upper age groups as they lock in commitments or focus on other pursuits to the point that ODP is not a benefit. Unlike NJ or MD, I like that EPA posts the names of the players. I think this helps in the recognition process and I don't think that it is much of a security concern. It is no different than a GotSoccer roster, and in fact, the final teams will appear on GotSoccer anyway.
11:28 no disrespect with this post, i agree with most of it. Just have one question. When you say ECNL players,are you saying the players that also do id2 camps or the ones that were not identified for id2 camps? There is a little bit of a difference.
7:26 - I do not have that level of knowledge or information. I just have some information about the club teams for which the various ODP participants play.
PAE ODP Results/Team Rosters are now posted on the EPYSA website
I have older kids who have been doing ODP for a long time. The region 1 team is totally worthwhile. What we have seen was pretty much all of the top players playing at 12-13. Then a drop off of the national players after the first u14 camp. I know at least one in my child's age that was identified for national camp through ODP. Then the regional team started up. Took a huge pool at u13 (now there is a u13 interregional team so its a little different. Probably backed up because of the more prevalent early recruiting) kept many interested for U14. However after many in the pool at u13 didn't get selected for the much smaller u14 pool or the u14 interregional team, a lot of good but not great kids stopped participating. Some new kids popped in at u15 who were good but not great. they made the team more competitive but then they either committed or didn't make the region1 team and dropped off similarly. New kids this year. In general the region 1 team/pool kids tend to stay interested until they commit. The kids coming from weak club teams see it as an opportunity to play with and against stiffer competition. Increasing presence from the Pocono and central PA areas where its harder to play for an ECNL team.
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I have a U12 G player who was recently chosen for an ODP Ttraining team. She was only in for last few sessions and is expecting to earn a spot.. I am totally lost and think I am in way over my head. She is great in my eyes and gets lots of compliments on her skill level at such a young age. (She is some keeper for her club team) she hs guest played at ECNL U13 games and most recently At a U12 Boys game. What is the likely hood of her getting picked?? How many keepers are kept for 03's? We are in northern VA. Is ODP just as expensive as ECNL? Have any of you gotten sponsorships for your players? Thanks
In my opinion, one cannot compare ODP and ECNL because they are two entirely different programs. On the whole, ODP would be less expensive, but the product is different. ODP is training focused with a certain amount of opportunity to mix and compare with players from other clubs and areas. ECNL is club and competition focused, which of course comes with training. ODP is more of a supplement program to a primary club experience. Finding the right team for a GK is difficult. On one hand you do not want the GK on a very good team where the GK never sees any shots. On the other hand it can be demoralizing for a GK to be constantly peppered with shots and ultimately goals. Often, a GK may need to play on two teams, one where she can see fewer, but higher quality shots; and the other where she can see quantity. One bonus of playing on a higher level team is that the GK can be incorporated into the attack and actively coordinate the defense because the players tend to know more about how to work with the GK at a higher level. As far as funding, ODP does offer scholarships, and some ECNL teams may offer grants. However, time and travel are the bigger expenses at the ECNL level. You are fortunate to have many options for teams in NOVA. You should find a club that has a good GK training program. Not all do, and often the GK just ends up being a target for the field players without receiving any individual specialty instruction. That is why many GKs end up going to a separate GK trainer, which usually adds another training day or two to the week and more expense. I recommend you review the websites of some of the local teams to see what they offer for GKs and try and speak to some of the contacts. You need to shop around. The U14 blog has some good discussions about the pros and cons of ECNL, NPL, USYS, etc.
Opinions/insight needed please!My U15 was selected to ODP this year. We thought this was quite an accomplishment since this was her goal for the past year. She trained, developed and worked hard to improve from where she was one year, and two years ago (she never had any actual travel training/development until U13 and Super-Y). She has made a lot of effort to talk to her club coaches about what her goals are and where she wants to be in terms of advancing her game and her placement on a higher level team within the club, especially since she has out-paced her current team placement development-wise (it is technically a B-team). And she has put in the work. Playing up with an A-team older age group and with ODP has been giving her the challenge she needs and wants, as she is very frustrated. Not to mention that the attitude and goals of the B-team players (and their parents) are not in line with what she wants to accomplish, such as: going to every soccer practice, training on her own, going to college showcase tournaments,playing college soccer...Previously, the coaches were very supportive of her, giving her advice and encouragement. A couple of the coaches have asked her why she hasn't been promoted to the A-team, or even asked to guest-play or join their practices, and seemed surprised that she hasn't. Nonetheless, they encouraged her to keep improving saying she will get noticed, scouts will start coming out, etc., etc.,......but suddenly the tides have turned. When she asked to be placed on the older A-team - which she was invited to practice and play games with - because she felt it suited her needs better, the coaches got all "weird" and have started discouraging her from pursuing a higher level. Where she was told that scouts will be coming out to see her, now she's told that she's just a freshman and she's jumping the gun, ODP isn't that important, she should skip ODP events to attend a recreational "just for fun" tournament with the B-team, and she's being selfish to want to leave the B-team in pursuit of her own development, that she should stay behind and help the weaker players get better......this sends up red flags for me.WHAT AM I MISSING HERE? WHAT IS THIS ABOUT? Why would the same coaches that encouraged her before turn around and discourage her now? Isn't this supposed to be about player development? I'm not paying thousands of dollars per year for my daughter to stagnate on a weak team so she can help develop her weaker team mates. I am paying for the club to develop HER, which is the first line of their mission statement! And why would they poo-poo ODP when they push the A-team players to be in ODP? And BTW, the club isn't ECNL, it's CCL and WAGS, if that matters.Please advise, I am at a loss.
What I feel like is that the club/coaches have identified who they want to develop and all "the others" are just the bread-and-butter financial support for the club.
If your daughter is in CCL and WAGS, then she certainly has access to a number of different clubs where she could play. Use ODP as a means to network, from both the parent and player perspective. Casually talk to other parents to find out things that are happening, but do not be a soccer know-it-all or wanna-be. Your daughter should try to make friends with the other players and interact with the coaches. Essentially, the same skills that need to be developed to find a job and have a successful career often need to be used to find the right soccer fit.
Is your opinion that the only recourse is to change clubs? She doesn't want to change clubs, and has always been very fond of her coaches there. It is just surprising that they would collude to hold her back. Why would coaches want to hold a player back rather than developing her full potential, and discourage her from pursuing the next level?
Promoting one player often means demoting another. Coaches may be reluctant to demote for many reasons. My daughter's team has been together since U9 with very little change, with the exception of roster expansion for 11v11. My daughter was a "B" team player and had to wait a number of years until finally being promoted to the "A" team. At that, she has never really been accepted into the team chemistry because she has a stigma of having been a "B" team player in the early years. Many of her "B" teammates have only moved up by moving out. One was in a situation similar to your daughter's, ODP and all of that, but wasn't being placed on the "A" team. My daughter had an "A" team offer on the table from another club when she received the invitation to move up to her club's "A" team. Just like in the business world, sometimes you need to switch employers to advance, or show that others are interested in your talents before your talents are truly appreciated.
10:03am&12:07pm -- I don't know if you'll ever know why her coaches have changed their approach with her without asking them directly, and I don't know that you'll even get a good answer even if you do ask them. It could even be that the coaches are feeling pressure from other parents complaining that she was being given opportunities that others weren't, and they've decided to take away her opportunities rather than open those same opportunities to lower-level players. If you're getting a weird vibe, I'd trust that feeling and start thinking about making a move after the spring. Since you said you're at a CCL club, you won't be able to move to another CCL club, which would limit your options. A club that is truly about development would not hold a player back that was looking for ways to improve, or they should not hold her back without a discussion about the reasoning behind it.
Nov 12 8:18pm -- VA will keep a larger player pool for the 03s for State ODP, maybe 10 or so keepers? It varies every year and depends on quality. If she's getting good feedback from her coaches and has a good work rate in training, she's probably likely to be selected.ODP will have a training fee for the State and the tournaments and camp will have separate fees.
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