SSC has A national championship, they don't have THE national championship.
Fact. If you are a top ten NJ team, you lost to SSC!!!
Check your facts, son.
Maybe 4 years ago playing SSC was frightening...definitely not anymore...sorry bud
Big ups to MF beating Loudoun. That's a marquee win. Well done guys.
What has changed with Stronghold that people think they are not as good as they were. Did they lose players or did they gain players? They brought back a few that played for RB and added more very good players. What logic are you using?
Not saying they aren't an excellent team but SSC is in the 3rd flight at the Jefferson Cup behind MF and STA. That says something about the quality of the team.
Does it? Or does it say something about the quality of the team last season? Rankings do not take into consideration injuries, key additions etc.
If the Stronghold coach felt his team should be flighted higher, wouldn't he have requested that and provided the reasoning?
Maybe he did. Maybe they didnt care. How does that change the fact that there are different players on the team.
Get better results this year and then make a case about how strong stronghold is....everyone had injuries last year. Everyone had a player added or dropped. Get a grip on reality.
Your season last year was mediocre at best
Why would anybody leave the Red Bulls to play on a team that is in the 3rd flight of anything?
because they are the best team in NJ
I want my sons team to be mediocre like SSC. Looking at Edp and Us club state cup. They beat SDFC,Marlboro,STa,Marlton, NJ force. Looks like they beat the best teams in NJ.. With the exception of Matchfit.. Good luck to all teams this year..
SSC is the best team in NJ? Something tells me that those players weren't invited back to Redbulls. Why would anyone give up free soccer to go back to pay to play?
Who cares about who is the best team? It's all about college exposure at this age. Lots of kids being actively recruited right now. Time for arguing about who is best is over.
"It's all about college exposure at this age"Go back to this blog at U13/U14.......same thing said.
Except it's true now.
7:44So enlighten us on who is actively being recruited. Are these colleges DI or DIII?
1:53, what would it matter if it was Division 1,2 or 3? If you are a junior in HS and not being recruited by anyone at this point I would think that you are behind a lot of others. It does not have to be UNC or Syracuse to count as being recruited. You could simply have been contacted by a coach who saw you play at a tournament, you send your highlight video and they decide that they would like to speak to you.
Match Fit had kids commit to Syracuse and Rutgers last week. SDFC has an Indiana commit. They are TOP D1 programs.
Good for them! This is where the rippling will begin and the pyramids get tighter for college coaches.
Marlton, sjeb, Marlboro, ssc... Any division 1 players?
Good luck to all NJ teams playing in tournaments this weekend
So let me see if I have this right. SDFC has one player committed to a D1 school and now all the other teams are crap?
No 9:06 you have it all wrong. There are D1 level players on all of the top teams. Some have more than others, but most of these kids can play college soccer. Whether it's D1,2 or 3. The big question is how much or how long they will play? Did your child put everything have into the last 10 years to get to this point? Would it be worth it to say, I'm playing D1 soccer and not play much? Most of these potential college soccer players have never had to sit the bench. Why would you want to start now? Make sure your kid loves the SCHOOL, not the soccer, not the coach, not the logo on the sweater. There are so many factors out of your child's control that could change the soccer experience at the flip of a switch. Good luck to all!!!
Nice post and very true. Many D3 schools are a much better match for most on so many levels including the fact that the top D3 schools will beat the mid to bottom D1 schools. You might be surprised. D2? Go ahead, play for Georgian Court and be bored out of your college life.
Holmdel surprised a lot of people with their results at Annandale this weekend. 3 wins in the top flight! Congratulations! You've proved to everyone that you deserve to be in the top flight of EDP.
Holmdel never doubted Holmdel. Keep sleeping
How many different tournaments were there this past weekend? I see Holmdel did well, did others play too. Where was it played?
The manhattan tournament. Marlboro won their flight with 3 wins.
Manhattan NJ results (different flights)Marlboro 3-0SSC 2-1SDFC 2-1Marlton 1-2SJB 0-3TSF 1-1-1
Top 51 Matchfit2 SDFC3 Sounders4 SSC5 Marlton
Why all the Marlton love? Good team, yes, but what have they done lately to deserve a top 5 ranking?
Thought for sure no other teams in the state could compete with the top teams in the country besides MF and SDFC.....and then Holmdel takes down the national champs....any of the intelligent soccer minds on this blog have a good explanation for that?
I don't claim to be an intelligent soccer mind, but I think I have an explanation. Taking nothing away from Holmdel. This is not the same Celtic team that won the National Championship. There are a least 5 players that have all committed to D1 schools that are no longer with the team. Last years Celtic team was on the older side. They had somewhere between 6-8 juniors on the team. Those kids are all seniors now and have moved on for one reason or another. That said it's very hard to win 3 games in one weekend. So congrats to the Sounders boys!!
So they lost between 11-13 kids from last years team? Or am I reading that wrong? And how do you know they lost all those players for sure?
He said they lost at least 5 kids.
All of their top players went to the DC United Academy except for one. They are all starting there too by the way. But take nothing away from the Sounders. That Celtic team is still one of the best in the country. Still putting it together though.
Always an excuse. Always.
does anyone know how celtic got invited to Nationals since they lost at regionals?
Top 4 National League teams qualify for Nationals. Top 2 at each Regional tournament (NCS State Champs Tournament) also qualify. That will put you in Frisco, Texas in July for the National Championship. At this point, Loudoun (VA), Solar Chelsea (TX) and Baltimore Celtic have already qualified due to National League. Kudos to Holmdel for a nice win, but Celtic have punched their ticket already. We'll see where everybody else is in July...
Loudoun had already qualified for the national tournament before regional tournament so they took 2nd place team.
Yeah Holmdel calm down. You only beat a team that qualified for Nationals, it isnt like you took down Marlton or something like that.
Why everyone hating on Marlton?
So the national tournament that Celtic qualified. Is basically a pay and play tournament also..no different than the us club nationals..So you can win your state cup and then loose at regionals and still have a spot at the national tournament..very similar to Us club.. You can loose your state cup but then signup for regionals and win regionals and you have a spot at Nationals.. I have seen on this blog criticism on the us club nationals.. But most high end teams compete under is club cards at tournaments etc...the other system is outdated and will eventually be replaced... Or they will change their ways to try to survive or compete with Us club..
Not exactly 5:15, to get to the real regionals you have to win your state cup. If you lose in the regional final to a team that is already qualified for nationals they take the runner up. That's it, no guests allowed either. Nothing like US Club.
Nothing at all like US Club. The 4 National League spots are the result of the top 32 teams playing in league that is of the highest caliber. Otherwise, 2 teams from each region. Look at the list of teams that played in US Club nationals last year... Most were bounced from their state cups in quarters or earlier. Can't even get to your states semis in USYS, but top bracket at US Club Nationsls??? Last year, 97 of the top teams in the country applied to get into the national league. US club regionals and nationals take EVERYONE that is half decent and the tournaments are a money grab.
academy teams are not invited to either nationals.. then both are a joke.. if academy is the highest level why are they not invited?
Academy teams choose to play in their own league. It' s not about being invited. You have to play in the league and win or win a State cup to qualify for regionals and Nationals.
I see SJEB advanced against Matchfit in the EDP cup. Was that due to a forfeit or was the game played?
There would be no reason to forfeit in the EDP Cup. You can play anytime you want too.
Game was played. Sjeb played a great game.
Played on grass I bet.
WOW! Congrats to SJEB. Must have played well.
MF is not the end all be all. They are good but beatable. Many teams in NJ want to knock them off their high horse and many teams believe they can...
Looking forward to seeing MF live so I can form my own opinion on if they got better stayed the same or slid a bit.
Please do tell us your observations. We all await your opinion.
You're a funny guy... or girl.
MF is playing in the Jefferson Cup this weekend and a lot of people are interested in their results.
Yes and no matter what people say......all press is good press. GL MatchFit
Did they win?
Did they win?! If you consider there were 40 plus college coaches watching their game. Id say they won regardless of the game result. 1-1 tie, BTW.
Good luck with Rutgers Newark and Camden
Marlboro got a good win.How did Morris and Stronghold fare?
SJB win again.
SSC won 3-0
Nice. Good job SSC
6:44? SJB win again?! Didn't they just lose all 3 games at the Manhattan tournament?
SJB WINS AGAIN
4th tier group you guys. Your beating average teams at best. Congrats
4th tier at Jeff cup is very good comp. best ofLuck with your Edp flight 2
Yes. Best of luck to the teams in edp 2. we may see some of them in states but that's it. 4th tier is not very good. Just look at the competition and you see it
So MF can't beat SJB but because they are in the top flight we need to diminish SJB
Hilarious! Match Fit can't beat SJB! Anybody with any soccer sense would be able to figure out that SJB beating MF was a fluke. MF had the ball for 80% of the game. Just look at the results before and after that game for both teams. SJB played really hard and well that game, Let's be realistic. Saying MF can't beat SJB is just a dumb statement. You deserve to be hated on because of it.
Let's see, Harvard, Villanova, Lehigh, Lafayette, UPenn, Army, Navy, Colgate, Hobart, Holy Cross, Bucknell and many others. They were all there. Not Rutgers Camden. You have no clue...
You have no clue. They were there to see MANYteams and players not just you
Could you point out where I said they were there just to see our team?
Matchfit, TSF, Marlboro and SJB all had good weekends at Jeff cup.
STA finished 1-1-1 in the second flight, I think that's pretty good.SSC finished 1-0-2 in the third flight. Good but not great. FC Copa finished last with 13 goals against. Don't waste your time and money!
I wouldn't spend too much time on the brackets. Yes, the top bracket vs the last bracket is a big difference but the mid level brackets are all interchangeable. Copa is not a good team and the problem here is that they were even accepted, that is the issue here. SSC should have done better in their group, I think even they would admit to that. STA has been playing very well for some time now and Marlboro or NJCSA what ever they are has been posting good scores also. TSF? I have not seen them play but looks like they have improved based on results.
577 points Marlboro earned as champions as the 4th bracket of Jeff Cup. Don't tell me flights and brackets don't matter. 577 measly points tells me Brackets do matter.
According to your post, points matter. Do you understand points and how they are awarded? Marlboro was a higher ranked team in their bracket and as such would have a difficult time earning points. Let's get real, the points are nice but these players are playing for their future colleges at this time.
Then they got flighted wrongly. They should have been in a higher bracket. Points are recognition for years of hard work. I'm not from Marlboro and cannot speak on behalf of Marlboro but they are a good side. State champs not too long ago and I believe they may feel a little disgruntled by the amount of points(national/regional recognition) rewarded for their hard work.
Seemed strange that those points would be handed out so I looked at the schedule of Marlboro. They played 2 teams that were state semi finalists, the schedule itself seemed fairly strong. Nothing any team could do about it. Just go out and win the matches you are given.
SJB, same bracket, didnt come in first, and got more points. Anyone????
Points awarded take into account how many points you had at the start of the tournament. 20% of your points total are subtracted from the points available for your finishing position. That is so teams with lots of points (and supposedly better) don't get any points for playing in tournaments or brackets with teams with lower point totals.If the flight is only worth 1000 points, and you start the tournament with 4500 points - 20% of your total (900) would be deducted from the 1000 points should you win - so you would only get 100 points. So once you get to a certain points level - you have to play in the big tournaments/brackets with the high flight point values - otherwise you never really accrue more points.
ok. SJB has more points in this case, yet were awarded more points.
At the start of the Jeff Cup, Marlboro had more pts. because they had just won their flight at the Manhattan tourn. They probably should've been flighted higher at the Jeff Cup but the schedule was already done.The amt. of pts. they could be awarded was limited and SJ Barons ended up with more total pts.
2:48, that is not correct. SJ Barons have been ahead of Marlboro on points. Both SJ Barons and Marlboro should have been flighted higher but that doesn't answer the question.
It likely has to do with Marlboro winning at Manhattan but your right, it doesn't seem fair.
3:02 Flighted higher?! Why? What has either of those teams done recently to deserve to be flighted higher? Marlboro won flight 10 in Disney and flight 3 in Manhattan. I mean really, that's one flight above u16. And the Barons? They lost all 3 games the weekend before against okay competition. Jeff Cup is a top tournament. They both were flighted right where they belong.
They both went undefeated By that alone they were flighted wrong
It doesn't really matter, I am sure there tons of college coaches watching their games. Right?
At Jeff cup. Yes
MF take down Loudon and Celtic. No big deal because it was expected.
Yes we did expect it. Don't you expect to win when you play. You go in thinking you will lose?
you guys realize college coaches dont gaf about got soccer rankings or points so your arguments are pointless!!!
Rankings matter to the coaches that came to the game yesterday. When 2 top 5 teams play against each other they seem to care.
Yes. That is why MF is the place to be
I'm sure your players who sit on the bench don't think that, or do they? Is everyone on MF a D1 player just because the team has a high ranking? College coaches want good players, they don't care about the team.
Ummm all play. Our bench is stronger than your starters I would think.
Holmdel again. 2nd flight=joke
So MF did you use your bench players in your loss to FSA? Just asking.
Some bench, some staters and some didn't make the trip. The reality is that some games are more important than others. The games that are most important are being won.
I actually agree with your opinion 4:44. However you do remember this post right "Ummm all play. Our bench is stronger than your starters I would think." So which is it? Do all players play? Is your bench stronger than other teams starters? I would guess not.
I agree with you and think that comment was over the top. For the most part if a kid is on the roster he plays meaningful minutes. The starting lineup changes quite a bit from game to game. There are lots of good teams in the state but they are not as deep as MF.
players 12-18 are #12-18 for a reason. I'm sure that a few of the bench players on top teams are pretty damn good and could easily start games and contribute to consistently winning games.. Then I think that a few of them are capable of giving you 30 minutes and working hard but not consistently accomplishing much versus good teams other than giving some guys a breather.The record states that since the beginning of this new year MF is 4W-2T-2L which is not great for a team boasting about how the bench players are stronger than most teams starters. (Granted they have got wins vs Loudon, Celtic and tied Penn Fusion which many teams would really struggle to do)
MF is playing a schedule that others would lose 4-1 every match. You cant compare records.
7-3-2 if you count Disney. 9-3-2 if you count Mainline Friendlies ( college coaches were all over so teams were playing very hard). Check out how many of the teams they have played that are ranked #1 in their state.
What an emotional response "others would lose 4-1 every match." You can't possibly know or believe that especially when you've lost games recently. SDFC Could beat those teams.Holmdel took down Celtic as well.Marlboro is like 8-0 to start the year. SJB beat MF.SSC could hang with those teams.Marlton as well would be more respectable than 4-1 every game.All teams are closer to you than you might like.
Point being, no one is playing the caliber teams that MF is. Records can not be compared.
SJB beat MF... Let's not pretend that game was a real soccer game. A Weds night down by Atlantic City in 34 degree weather with 20-25mph winds. That's why we generally don't play soccer outdoors in the dead of winter. They scored 2 mins. in on a corner and backed up the bus. They did what they had to do to win. We play them again, If they beat us then I will acknowledge the win and congratulate them.
You dont acknowledge that win? MF elitist!!!!!! You must be great on the sidelines.
To not count a result though? That is not debatable.............they lost. But that is nothing new with MF, when they lose they have an excuse.
Some of these comments are so immature that I feel they're coming from the players. If they're from adults, that's a shame.
Only games that are won are real soccer games. If I'm losing I'm gonna take my ball and run home to make sure no one else can play...boohoo boohoo
MF parent. Stop, stop now please. I do think that most do consider your team to be the favorite in all matches against other NJ teams. You recruit well, train well, and play well. You do not need to come on here with excuses, please lose and win with equal grace.
Only about 2 percent of high school athletes win sports scholarships every year at NCAA colleges and universities. Yes, the odds are that dismal. For those who do snag one, the average scholarship is less than $11,000. (And remember... Soccer *isn't* a money sport! (Only Football & Basketball.) http://www.cbsnews.com/news/8-things-you-should-know-about-sports-scholarships
Yet almost everyone you know tells you how their child has a scholarship. People confuse the listed price of tuition and the actual cost of tuition as a scholarship all the time.
STA awarded over 3000 points as the best team in a subpar top group at the EDP Easter spectacular.
Good for them
Any Edp games this weekend?
Marlton vs. Sdfc
That's a big one Where will it be played?
1 MatchFit2 SDFC3 Morris4 Holmdel 5 Marlton6 TSF7 South Jersey8 Stronghold 9 Marlboro10 Ironbound gotsoccer ranking order.....throw it out the window....Which team do you least want to play in the state tournament?
1.matchfit2.sdfc3.marlton4.morris5.sjeb6.holmdel7.sscHow the rankings should be, toughest out in state cup.
2-0 Marlton over Sdfc
I thought matchfit and sdfc were on a different level from the rest? I guess not? Explain game whoever was there?
SJEB not the best day. Better to come
EDP league game today. Marlton 2, SDFC 0.
SJB beats MF 1-0 then loses today 4-0? Makes no sense
Marlton's next state cup game should be good
3:08 to your question...it was a good competitive game. Both teams played well. Both Marlton goals were decent, second one was real good. SDFC parent thrown out of the game. SDFC players seemed to be somewhat at each other's throats towards the end. Parents were not helping the situation. Best comment of the day was the SDFC mom at the end after the loss that loudly screamed "this ain't academy soccer!" Real classy. She was sitting next to the guy that was thrown out. I'm sure academy coaches would just love to have her on the sideline encouraging her little boy wonder. SDFC parents then basically all stormed off. Great support for their boys. Definitely a pleasant bunch.
That didnt explain the game at all, just behavior. I think most would think that SDFC is a better team then Marlton. Not that Marlton cant beat SDFC but would be the underdog going in.
I think we will see lots of surprises this year..
SDFC has always been sore losers, parents and Kids..
I completely disagree with you. SDFC is not horrible when they lose. You will always have that one idiot parent or player that reacts before thinking but as a whole, starting with the coach they seem to handle themselves well. Much better then SSC, MF or Holmdel who have multiple idiot parents that ruin it for all.
Thanks for the clarification SDFC parents. Proves last point. Pass the blame to other teams
Don't know how you say sdfc is a better team than Marlton right now when they just lost 2-0? Yes parent was thrown out and sdfc players arguing amongst themselves, but Marlton went up to sdfc and won 2-0. Enough said with the score, wouldn't say a surprise game when Marlton beat them last year in State cup semifinals?
The wind did not impact the game at all? Come on now.
Pittsgrove, Freindship fields and Mercer County Park. Is the NJYS board kidding me? How can you possibly play NCS state cup games on those fields? That's a complete embarrassment. You are asking teams that play on turf or quality grass fields all season long to play SC games on trash fields. Makes no sense!! Well at least it'll get the winner ready for the crap fields in WV. Good luck to all.
10:30 completely agree with you. Isn't Pittsgrove in deep South Jersey? Does that mean that Parsippany vs Hudson (example) would have to play in Pittsgrove? Is NJYS paying for travel expenses?
Pretty sure both teams had to play in the wind? Just trying to make excuses for your loss!
Funny that someone should mention the Holmdel parents, or should we just call them coaches on the parents sidelines. They all had their say and showed disgust in coaching decisions. Did not react well to the result either.
These scores make no sense. MF loses to SJEB 1-0, SJEB loses to Marlboro 4-0? Did SJEB bring their B team to this game? Marlboro winning is something you can understand but 4-0 is crazy. SJEB, any reason this happened? Spring break maybe?
SDFC parents, you should at least have some dignity when you lose. Come on now!
Marlon vs. St. Benedict's prep in next round of state cup
Looks like Matchfit dropped out state cup
Which state cup did MF drop out of. Why and how would you know
Bergenfield advanced in NJ cup. No game was played.
Must be a mistake
I told you Bergenfield was good.
Did Bergenfield advance because MF withdrew?
MF has other fish to fry, moved on.
NJ Cup predictionsHolmdel 5-1 HudsonSTA 4-1 ParsippanySouth Jersey Academy 2-1 MarlboroTSF 3-2 NJ ForceCedar Stars 3-2 MarltonSJEB 3-0 FC Copa
Don't think Cedar Stars will score 3 against Marlton. They are a good possession team but don't finish well. And SJEB should put up more than 3 against FC Copa. Other games seem reasonable.
They are just predictions but do you really think that Marlboro will lose to SJA? Based on recent results it looks like Marlboro or NJCSA is on quite a good streak. I also think that NJ Farce will beat TSF, close though.
MF has other fish to fry??? What does that mean? LOL!
SDFC is busy frying other fish too.
Turns out the Region 1 playoffs are the same weekend as the NJ Cup semis and finals. MF will be the #1 seed for those playoffs. Much bigger fish!, LOL!!
There is one difference however. SDFC was smart enough to take a moment and look for conflicts. They didnt register for the NJ CUP and screw up a bracket. Of course this is only because SDFC screwed up last year. MF followed SDFC and made the same blunder. Let's go Bergenfield!!!!!!
Yes, MF dropped the ball on that one. You mean to tell me that no other team/club made that same mistake this year? Oh yeah! Other than SDFC and MF, no other team could have made that mistake. My guess is your sons team would have been more than happy to make the call to NJ Cup and withdrawal. My guess is Marlboro isn't upset at all.
My point exactly. By not tending to their business MF has made a tournament that is seeded evenly, uneven. Simple clerical issue that should not have happened. Not the end of the world but this could have been avoided.
It has nothing to do with Region1, MatchFit has added training times so they can beat SJB.
I guess we should be happy that MF clinched a spot in the Reg. 1 playoffs so early. Otherwise they would've had to pull out in later rounds of State Cup.
NJYS, Pittsgrove? Why Pittsgrove? It is easier and faster to get to Wilmington DE from most places. Your decision making ability has not gotten better. Will you be supplying gas vouchers?
Pittsgrove, Freindship Fields in Bordentown and Mercer County Park. All horrible fields. Not sure what the thought process is?! They have it all wrong!
I dont know a thing about the fields in Pittsgrove, they could be perfectly maintained for all I care. It does not change the fact that the vast majority of teams are not located anywhere near there and the location choice is dumb. Mercer county park and Bordentown are on my top 5 worst fields ever played on list. NJYS FAILURES AGAIN.
Haven't been to any of those fields since my 22 yr old daughter was playing U12. What in the world in NJYS thinking?? Chewed up crappy fields to play the most important tournament of the year. Clowns...
Dont our clubs support and finance NJYS? Why do they accept the work they do? Are these appointed positions or voted in?
We finally found something we can all agree on! NJYS is awful.
So whose going to step forward and help fix NJYS?
There is no fixing it. All old school know it alls that will not change. Be happy you are U17 and leaving this mess. If you want to have all neutral fields at least pick a location or locations in the middle of the state. Personally I dont see a need for neutral sites but if you are going to do it, do it right. Next year the neutral site will be in Ramsey to make up for it? They really made all of the arrangements and said guys we did a great job here? They should all be fired.
Us Club is the way of the future for American Soccer...Old school way of thinking and decision making is never going to get us nowhere.odp is a waste of money.. Njys is outdated and out of touch..outdated card system, outdated way of doing things. Njys is basically catering to town Rec programs..
People wonder why we cant qualify for the Olympics in soccer. Deal with the ODP dinosaurs and you will see why. The problem with these organizations is that the kids move thru and are gone. Very few parents stay around when their kids age out. So the people running these organizations don't really care what you say - cause they know you will be gone too.
NJ Cup location was thoughtless. And I guarantee schedule times will be the same. 8am start for teams from North Jersey. When was the information of a centralized location disclosed? Boycott
To make it even better the lower level State Cup begins tomorrow on the same fields. Forecast is for rain or even 1-3 inches of snow. They will play at least some if not all of the games and the fields will be 100% unplayable for the following weeks games. Whoever thought this was a good idea = terminated.
You called it 8:55, STA and PDA playing in first game next Sunday. 9am start, leave the house about 5:30am to get there.... BRILLIANT!
SSC gets hosed again. Play Marlton in first game. Last year it was MF. What happened to Marlboro??
Where are you finding this?
Posted on NJYS website.
No way this is right. Why would Marlboro not apply.
Website says Monday 4-11 for flighting
I don't see a link or schedule. Stop crying PDA
No games were played? What do they do now as the sites are booked
Keep searching its on the website.
No it is not.
Everyone at NJYS should be fired. Field locations are atrocious. It is money thing? Are people getting paid off perhaps to bring the games to their fields? The decision making is so bad there must be something shady going on. That's the only way to even remotely try to understand it. Does anyone think there is a chance they ever look at this blog? Thoughts?
Not about money. 200 is not a lot
SSC 3 Marlton 1
Marlton out up a good fight but really couldn't defend well enough
Can someone ask NJYS the reasoning for playing in South south Jersey for the NJ state cup? I would believe they have a transparent organization? Where is the 2022 WC in Qatar. That makes sense in 120 degree heat..???
Go ahead and ask. Let us know
MF had "other fish to fry". FC Europa is not on that menu. I happen to think that MF is the cream of the crop, yet they are not winning at the rate I thought they would. Any reasons why MF?
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